Front Burner - Metro Vancouver’s gang wars

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

Gang violence is on the rise again in Metro Vancouver, fueling worries about recruitment in the region’s South Asian community. Today on Front Burner, host Jayme Poisson talks to two people working in anti-gang intervention, with a focus on South Asian youth and families.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. When it comes to the story of gang violence in Vancouver, you might remember 2009 as a deadly climax. More than 30 gang-related shootings in the first two months of the year. Over a dozen murders. Someone used a machine gun to spray more than 40 bullets

in a packed mall parking lot in Langley. Crowds, kids and broad daylight seemed to be no deterrence to the shooters. Police at the time talked about the Red Scorpions, the United Nations, the Hells Angels, all competing for control of the illegal drug market. In the years since, even though millions have been invested in enforcement and prevention, the problem has persisted. Violence often erupting in waves, a really concerning one in the last three weeks. There have been 10 shootings, eight of them fatal

and most believed to be connected to gang conflict. Two fatal shootings over the weekend linked to a wave of gang violence. Two teens killed within 24 hours. Brazen shooting of a B.C. corrections officer outside a shopping mall. The most brazen one happened on Sunday in broad daylight at the very public Vancouver International Airport. Today, we talked to two people who are working with families directly affected by this type of violence. Harpreet Singh and Manpreet Sarai work with the anti-gang program at the South Asian Community Resource Office in Abbotsford. Hello, Harpreet. Hello, Manpreet. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.

Hey, thank you for having us. Hi, thank you. So, Manpreet, I'd like to start with you. The shooting on Sunday was very public. It was, as you can imagine, a chaotic scene as passengers heard gunshots. You know, bam, bam, bam, pop, pop, pop. I mean, it was so fast. I saw bullets ricocheting off the window. The suspects escaped in a getaway car, which was intercepted by police. They shot at the officers. The police didn't fire back, I understand, or keep chasing for fears that others in the area would get hurt. Oh, s***, I speak, chase behind me.

This is video of the moment, Mounties say, a gunman set his sights on police. Holy s***, there's gunshots! And were you surprised by how brazen it was? Yes, I was very surprised, just because it's such a public place. Other shootings that have happened locally are in public places also, but just having at the airport is very scary and frightening for the community and for the parents thinking they thought that a place that was might have more security than other places, might have more camera coverage, that this would not happen there.

So it is very frightening for a lot of people in the community. Right, and you mentioned other shootings. I know on Saturday in Burnaby, a 19-year-old was killed outside a local vape store. An innocent bystander was injured. Blurton Dileepi was killed. A murder charge has now been laid in a shooting. Another recent shooting took place in a very public place near a popular restaurant. Harpreet Singh Dhaliwal of Abbotsford was gunned

down just steps away from innocent bystanders. A firearm equipped with a silencer seen near his body. So you couldn't hear any noise. You just heard screaming. Two others in mall parking lots and Manpreet, I understand too that there are some very young people involved here. So I mentioned the 19-year-old victim from Saturday. A 20-year-old has been arrested in that shooting. And then back in December, a 14-year-old was shot coming out of a taxi, right? What's going on here? So it's so heartbreaking to see at the end of the day, these youth and these young adults losing their lives to gang violence. It just, it's hard to see that no one values, you know, the human life and seeing that these youth and these young people are, you know, they're someone's son, they're someone's family members.

And it's just, again, it's super heartbreaking to see. It's harsh that the gangs are doing this to young children. Harpreet, if I could bring you in here. Officials have said that they believe that this recent spate of violence is connected to lower mainland gang conflict. And can you tell me a little bit about the groups involved here? Manpreet talked about, you know, young people being brought in to this. Like, who are we talking about here? So we're generally talking about youth, you know, from ages as young as almost 11 being groomed into this, right? Like middle school ages up until the 30s that we're seeing right now that are in the news the most, right?

You're seeing a lot of smaller gangs pop up as well, and a lot of groups that are just kind of copying and being influenced by these larger things that are happening right now in the media. But the thing is, right now, you're seeing a lot of individuals that are connected to what's happening in the news. They're kind of just playing tag, right? Unfortunately, I don't want to equate it to a game, but you're seeing it's kind of tit for tat. They don't want to leave it in the law enforcement's hands.

They want to take care of the situation by themselves. If you get my guy, I'm going to get your guy. And these bigger gangs have reached out to a lot of these smaller groups as well just to kind of have a wider spread, a wider connection, a wider network as well. And unfortunately, yeah, we're seeing kids that are as young as 11 being groomed into this type of lifestyle. Wow. You mentioned sort of a tit for tat.

Are you saying that some of the shootings in recent weeks could be sort of retribution? Yeah, and that's kind of the way it seems. It seems like most of the shootings that have happened have been directly related to the gang conflict, right? And especially with the youth that we work with, they tend to have more information than we give credit to. Kids are actually quite knowledgeable about this stuff. But when it comes to someone being targeted,

it's usually because someone from their own group was targeted before that. So they're just trying to get a type of revenge. The groups, you mentioned some larger groups and sort of smaller groups. The Vancouver Sun's Kim Bolin is reporting that that 28-year-old Carmen Graywell, who was the man killed at the Vancouver airport on Sunday, was associated or was a member of the United Nations gang, which is a gang that's been involved in the drug trade for about 15 years now. Graywall, 28 years old, had already been involved for at least a decade.

Several years ago, Surrey RCMP issued a public warning for people to stay away from Mr. Graywall and his associates because at that point in time, they were being targeted in shootings and there was concern that if you were near them, you might get hit. Kim Bolin has also reported that shooting of Harb Dallowell, that he was a member of the Brothers Keepers gang. Can you tell me a little bit more about the landscape here, what these groups are involved in? Pretty much, you have these kind of factions that are, you know,

versing against each other, right? Whether it's for territory or distribution or pretty much the illegal drug trade in general. But the thing is, when it comes to the younger groups of individuals that are starting to create their own groups and their own branded identity, I don't want to really say their names because I don't want to give them like a platform or outlet, especially when they're not really, you know, as widely known. And I don't want to give them that type of credentials, I guess you could say. But the thing is, these higher known gangs that are in the media, they're definitely reaching out to these younger individuals.

And they're trying to build up their network so that they have the numbers almost like, I don't want to use the word army, but almost that you can reach out and get the support that you need when conflict is rising. And that is kind of what we have been seeing, right? And the gangs that you have mentioned, they are the ones that are up there and that they are the ones that are being the loudest, you could say, when it comes to these type of conflicts. And Manpreet, on that note, police, government officials, advocates have all acknowledged that the problem of gang violence disproportionately affects the South Asian community in Metro Vancouver. And can you help me understand why that is? So what we see with our South Asian youth, we see a cultural gap, we see a generation gap with the parents. Parents are working very hard. Parents are worried about the stigma that they're going to receive if they go get support. They have a hard time accepting that their youth is going down the wrong path.

And when they do accept it, sometimes the youth has gone too far. And also, they're worried about what their neighbors or their family members are going to think. But I think it's time that they start worrying about it and they support their youth and try to get the support that they need. Harpreet, could I get your take on this question as well? Can you tell me a little bit more about the youth that you're working with? Yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking at the risk factors that are involved, there are a lot of trends that we are seeing that are coming up consistently because we have a lot of youth on our caseload and we have a really long wait list as well. Historically, you see gang entry usually being due to necessity for money and funds, right? But in modern times, especially in this digital age, that's not really the case, especially with

this demographic. Unfortunately, what we're seeing is a lot of trends of undiagnosed mental health issues, not only for the youth, but for the family as well. For some reason, assessments just weren't done when the youth were growing up. And it could be, you know, generational from parent to youth as well. We're also seeing a lot of child youth trauma or abuse that's resurfacing for the youth or some things that they witnessed in the home that's resurfacing. A lot of neglectful parenting styles that Manpreet kind of touched up on. Just because the immigrant parents, they're working extremely long hours and they're just not home. Or due to, like, unfortunately, like, older cultural gender roles that the males might have and they might push on the females in the house.

Because of that, there's not a lot of male positive role models in the house. And we're seeing a lot of isolated and young, lonely men that are trying to find a sense of belonging and they were are trying to find it anywhere they can and unfortunately they are finding in the wrong places. Manpreet I understand you work with the parents quite a bit and can you tell me about some of the conversations that you have from them what do you hear from them? So some of these parents the kids might just be getting in fights at the school. And these parents think, okay, that's okay, just a fight at school. But we don't know what's happening in the background, there might be a whole lot of other things that are happening in

the background, these fights might be to see who's the tough guy, who's gonna, you know, who can actually hurt someone physically, and then those kids eventually get recruited into these gangs. So there's so much that happens behind the scenes. And the parents, they really don't know what to expect from all this. We see mostly moms come in for service. The fathers don't come in to support the youth and don't support them fully. So that's another thing. Tell me more about why you think that is.

Does it harken back to what her previous... Yeah, it's also because some of the moms, they will come in for the service. They know everything that's going on with the youth at school. And they're afraid to go home and tell the dad that there could be, you know, violence in the home. She will get blamed for everything you know violence in the home she will get blamed for everything because she in the culture it's expected that moms to blame for everything if

she's at home taking care of the kids if she's the one that's going to be responsible for the kids during the day it's her fault it's going to be her fault so for her to take all that blame on and she'd, even though the father figures need to step up and, you know, take that role that they're, you know, that they're supposed to be taking, they're not taking it. And they're, instead of being there supportive with their wife and the decisions that need to be made, they blame the other parent. Harpreet, how can you tell when a young person is really involved in a risky, dangerous situation?

Especially because, you know, you mentioned earlier that a lot of these young kids are in like very sort of low level, I would imagine, not even organized groups at all, right? And so like, when did those alarm bells start going off for you? Well, to be honest, you sometimes will get that kind of cry for help from youth where they will actively tell you that I'm part of this group or I'm associated with these people, right? And for them, they will just straight up say that, you you know this is going to go down i don't want to be part of it i'm kind of scared this that right but outside of that if they can't be out front with you you got to look for household signs are they leaving the house for small periods of time throughout the day right constantly do they have more than one cell phone are you finding

cash on them are you finding um you know uh drug drugs on them or quite a bit of drugs on them in the house? And that has been an issue in the past where parents will find that, but they're so scared of being labeled and blamed that they will hide that from the general public to protect their children. Are they hanging out with older individuals? Are they getting picked up from different cars or are different people showing up to the house constantly, right? That can be a huge sign that they might be connected to something. I'll see you next time. through Angel Investment and Industry Connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. It strikes me when people think about gangs in British Columbia and Vancouver, they might immediately think of like the Hells Angels or like the Triads gangs,

which are huge international drug trafficking gangs. But I know we've touched on this. I just think it might be worth talking about one more time that this is really something different here. It definitely is. We have, just with the other names coming up, whether it's United Nations, whether it's Brothers Keepers, these young kids know the names.

They know what's going on. They know the information before we do. And sometimes it's very important for these youth to have a status they feel status is very important to show um that they are someone to be part of the tough group at school there's another story that comes to mind just quickly where um as matt talks about kind of like the male bravado and the ego um you know coming up especially in our culture um like the south asian culture males, it's very hard for them to express their emotions and be vulnerable

and allow for that type of growth, emotional growth to happen. But we had a situation where they actually were actively involved in moving certain, as they call, product from city to city, but mom was able to find a lot of money on the youth and certain things, and she came

to us for help and we started off with counseling and we found and one-on-one sessions and just um sessions just to have empathy and validation for the youth and we found a lot of child youth trauma a lot of hidden trauma that the youth was hiding regarding the father and he they never learned how to express themselves healthily right in a healthy way. Their coping skills just weren't there when it came to their trauma and their abuse and the things that they had faced. But through the counseling and through just the one-on-one work and being able to open up, they were able to completely put their life behind them and get into university, right?

So that type of vulnerability and willingness to actually accept that emotional change, that's huge. But when we do, when we are able to achieve that, we find the greatest growth. But that is one of the biggest barriers because, especially in this culture, it's very hard to men to reach out for help. And we see a lot of young males suffering because they just won't align with their emotional needs. One final question for you both before we go today. Earlier this week, former BC Solicitor General Kash Heed, a long-time police officer who used to be on this file, said that the police need to rethink their strategies in dealing with violent gangsters willing to hunt rivals anywhere, anytime. That there needs to be a quote, very, very aggressive, suppressive approach. You've got to be in the face of these gangsters. We've got an insurmountable amount of intelligence based on who these people are. We've got to be in the face of these gangsters. We've got an insurmountable amount of

intelligence based on who these people are. We've got to look at creative ways of getting this information out to the public. Take the glamour out of this gang attitude and bravado and put it where it belongs. And that's, you act like that, you're going to get thrown in jail. I wonder if you could respond to that statement. What action would you like to see from police and or different levels of government? Manpreet, how about we start with you? So I agree that suppression is very important when things get so out of hand, But it's not like here locally, our police is doing an amazing job. Luckily, we are not seeing this violence

in Abbotsford right now. It's in their neighboring cities. But it's so sad to see that, you know, so many of our youth or young adults are dying. But at the same time, if there is a way that I think that the policing community will find a way of seeing what works best for them and how

how to handle this because they've been doing this longer than you know longer than we have. Harpreet, thoughts on that? When we focus more on suppression right obviously safety is an issue we got to think about the general public in the moment in the right now right so that's definitely a huge need and I do feel like the police are doing the best that they can, right? But I feel like we need to focus more on prevention, right? Because the thing is, that type of cycle, it's easy for us to look at youth in gangs and just call them gangster. But we forget a lot of the trauma that they went through growing up that led them to this lifestyle, the risk factors that led them to this lifestyle. So if we can actually focus more on preventative

measures, we can save not only that youth, but also their potential kids and cut that cycle of trauma out. Right. And try to garner a better future, because we've heard before when youth go to jail, they tend to learn to become better criminals. Right. Very few will come out of jail and they will have the expertise that they need to come back into society a better person. have the expertise that they need to come back into society a better person, right? Unfortunately, but the thing is, yeah, we do have great stories of people coming out of jail or prison, and they are becoming better citizens and people for themselves. But I think prevention is where a lot of the focus needs to go, especially in the next five, 10 years. But I know right now, things are rampant on the streets, and the community is very scared, especially in a pandemic. So I can definitely see the need

for social suppression right now as well. Okay, thank you both for your time. Thank you so much for having us. Some other news from British Columbia to update you on. The provincial government will start giving all workers, whether they're part-time or full-time, up to three days of paid sick leave if they have to miss work due to COVID-19. up to three days of paid sick leave if they have to miss work due to COVID-19. This new legislation introduced on Tuesday says that workers will be covered if they have COVID symptoms, are self-isolating or waiting for tests. Employers will need to pay workers full wages and the province will reimburse employers without an existing sick leave program

up to $200 a day for each absent worker. The Ontario government announced something similar a few weeks ago after months of urgent calls to do so. And the Ontario and Alberta governments have both announced they will no longer offer the AstraZeneca vaccine as first doses. Alberta cited supply, Ontario the blood clot issue. We'll keep you posted on further guidance on this. That's all for today though. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll keep you posted on further guidance on this. That's all for today, though. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll talk to you tomorrow.