Front Burner - Mexico in chaos after El Mencho killed
Episode Date: February 24, 2026Mass violence broke out on Sunday in Mexico after a military raid killed the most wanted, and feared, cartel boss in the country — a man known as El Mencho.We take a closer look at the aftermath of ...the operation and ask some questions: who was this kingpin, what is the powerful criminal organization he presided over, and what could happen in his absence?With us today is David Mora in Guadalajara. He’s the senior Mexico analyst at International Crisis Group.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts
Transcript
Discussion (0)
For years, I've sounded like a broken record.
I do not want kids.
I do not ever want to have kids.
I don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid.
I'm in my 40s now. The door is almost closed.
And suddenly, I'm not so sure.
The story has always been, no.
I'm just wondering to what degree it's just a story.
From CBC's personally, this is Creation Myth.
Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is a CBC podcast.
Hi everyone, it's Jamie.
Today we're talking about Mexico in the wake of mass violence that broke out on Sunday
after a military raid killed the most wanted and feared cartel boss in the country,
a man known as Almencho.
Convenient stores and petrol stations torched.
Trucks dragged across roads and set on fire.
Plumes of smoke from resort city Puerto Vallata.
Hurry, go, go, go, correct.
Panic customers running through Guadalajas.
Airport, flights canceled, and fear.
Now, as some of the death settles, we'll take a closer look at who this kingpin was,
the powerful criminal organization he presided over, and what could happen next in his absence.
With me now is David Mora, the senior Mexico analyst at International Crisis Group.
He is in Guadalajara.
David, thank you so much for making the time.
Really appreciate it.
Totally.
Thank you for inviting me to the show.
So you and I are talking at about 4 p.m. Eastern time on Monday, and since Almencha was killed in a Mexican military operation yesterday, an explosive reaction swept Mexico beginning in his cartel's home state.
Cartel, fire and fury, turning the streets of Mexican tourist hotspot, Puerto Vallata, on this Sunday morning into something resembling a war zone.
The explosion of violence also hit the state of Halisco's capital, Guadalasco's capital, Guadalajal.
Lahara and spread to at least 10 other states.
For those of us who are just watching the videos from afar, can you tell me more about what that
reaction entailed?
Certainly.
So, you know the immediate aftermath right after the operation was this show forced by the different
groups that operate under the Halisco-Cartar umbrella?
And they distraided, very coordinated response that the official toll was
at least 250 blockades. So basically the way this works is steel cars, they set them on fire,
trucks as well, buses, and then they use them to locate not only streets within like urban areas,
like the metropolitan zone here in Guadalajara, but also highways in Halisco State that, as you mentioned,
is the home state for the Hadisco cartel, but also neighboring states, such as Huanahuato, Michoacan,
on the west coast, Najadiah and Colima as well.
And that quickly grew up to be a national situation
because we also saw confrontations and blockades in other parts
closer to the US-Mexico border and further south towards Guatemala.
Foot soldiers of the Halisco New Generation cartel.
The most powerful drug gang in Mexico went on the rampage.
Incidents were registered in 20 of Mexico's 32 states.
The cartel present in every corner of the country.
of the country.
The official told that it was shared by the government
is that at least 25 troops died or killed.
The absence of suspects were captured.
Some others were killed as well during the operations.
Mexican officials say the total death count from yesterday's operation is at least 73,
including security forces, suspected cartel members and others,
including a prison guard and an agent from the state prosecutor's office.
Something that it's worth mentioning is that there,
been just a few reports of civilian casualties. And the way the government responded to these was
deploying more troops and reinforcing the presence across some of the states that had, you know,
the most active confrontations. And the situation was kind of like hotter. What is the purpose of this
show of force from the cartel? What are they trying to accomplish with the roadblocks and setting
vehicles on fire? So it's retaliatory. It's saying that, you know, they're not going to
let this happen without giving the fight. And it's to demonstrate the capacity, the disruption
capacity that a powerful organization is, as Halisco Cardo and the violence that they can inflict,
right? So it's basically telling the government it's not going to be that easy. It's a show of
force to demonstrate the capabilities of the cartel. How would you describe the state of things
right now across Mexico? Has the violence subsided? Has it been largely contained? So to keep it
under the right perspective, not all of Mexico was under fire, right? Like Mexico City didn't present
any any activity, any criminal activity, for instance. Where I am connecting from, which is Guadalajara,
the situation was different. We did see several instances here in Guadalajara in the metropolitan
area of these road blockades. There was a lot of misinformation as well, so there was a bit of
panic among the population. And rightly so, most people,
shelter in place yesterday all day long. And today, the city is kind of like crawling back
slowly to a certain level of normalcy. So yesterday, for instance, I was able to walk on the street,
not because I wanted, but because I was staying at an Airbnb with no water or food whatsoever.
So I went outside to try to find food. And of course, all businesses were shut down. The streets
were completely empty. Then they learned, for instance, that Uber stopped the right sharing services.
So you couldn't access the app. There was no public transportation. The government halted all public
transportation. And you could see that on the streets again. It was basically ghost town. I ended up
finding a taco joint. Right. Which you would think that is kind of like the easiest thing to find in Mexico. Yeah,
I want a taco and there are tacos everywhere. It was the only, and I'm talking about a main thoroughway, a main avenue.
the city. It was absolutely empty and after
almost one hour of walking, I found
this joint, this stole. I
ended up queuing for
four hours. Wow. And
then on the line, I heard
several stories of people that were literally
stranded. The city, for instance, hosted,
well, I had hosted the, it's half a mile
marathon. Not half a mile,
half marathon.
And there were over 10,000
runners from out of state that couldn't
return. They finished the race and they were
forced to stay in, in
Halisco in Guadalajara. Some of the people on the line, we saw arriving troops, Guadad Nacional,
the National Guardsmen, also looking for food. They had been on duty for by then for over 24 hours,
so they were starving more than we were. I was able to chat with some of the, some of these
troops, and they shared like pretty bleak stories of what the confrontations had been like
outside the metropolitan area. So besides this point, this corner that had a lot of us trained to
find food and water, the city was basically empty, virtually empty. It reminded me of COVID.
I mean, most immediately with the World Cup, seeing the city that I'm staying today, you know, completely, it came to standstill.
It was a ghost town. And just thinking that this city is going to receive millions of people in just a few months where the matches are going to be played here.
It was kind of like hard to, you know, squirt that circle.
Can you tell me more about what they told you about what those confrontations were like?
Because, I mean, looking at the footage from here, it looks like a war zone, right?
There's plumes of smoke coming out of, like, around Porto Vallarta.
Like, what was it like the violence and the chaos in reality?
So according to them, the confrontations had been very, very violent, also very focalized.
The videos, you know, like these videos, the ones that get viral are the ones that show this sort of scenes, right?
but that it is not to say that that is the case for the entirety of Mexico.
Certainly in Puerto Vallajarta, they set in fire places, businesses here as well,
like some oxa, which is this chain store, very popular in Mexico.
They close the doors and they're always open.
So it was very shocking to see them closing the doors because they're usually target when things like that happened.
So some oxes were on fire as well.
And what I heard from the National Guardsmen were descriptions of,
Their men being targeted and killed, which is something that the government corroborated yesterday evening.
Yeah.
It was breaking news to me.
They talk about dozens of their colleagues having been killed by criminal groups working under Halisco.
And today the government confirmed that at least 25 troops had been killed.
Guardia Nacional troops had been killed.
In Puerto Vallarta, tourists were told.
shelter in place. All Canadians in affected regions should heed the direction of local authorities
and travel only when it is safe to do so. There's reportedly 300 people stuck at the airport
after flights were cancelled. Many travelers were eventually transferred to the city center under
heavy police escort. And currently, there are about 26,000 Canadians registered in Mexico right now.
That is an increase of nearly 8,000 from the same time yesterday.
Registration is voluntary.
We know that the actual number of Canadians in Mexico is likely much higher.
All Canadians traveling or living abroad are strongly encouraged to register with global affairs
in order to receive timely updates and information about the ongoing situation.
and travel advice.
Is your sense that the streets are still too dangerous to move around?
And I know you're obviously moving around in them a little bit.
I have.
Yeah.
And again, I mean, Guadalajara, it feels like it is going back to normal.
And this is what I would expect, you know, based on previous instances of, you know,
the Mexican government going hard against a major drug trafficking figure, the immediate reaction usually last.
for around two or three days.
And things kind of like go back to normalcy.
Is there anything different about this time around
from previous experiences?
I mean, and when I say previous experiences,
of course, the first one that comes to mind is El Culeacanaso,
which is the time in 2019
that former president,
Andred Mono Lopez Obrador,
try to capture El Chapo's youngest son, Ovidio-Gusman.
It began Thursday afternoon in Culeacan,
the capital of Sinaloa State, when 30 officers on patrol were shot at from inside a home.
Patrol personnel repelled the assault, took control of the house,
and arrested four people inside, says Mexican security minister Alfonso Duraso.
And they did capture him, but Los Chapito's disfaction within the Sinolao
courtville basically seized the entire city.
They choked the city in its entirety.
And they forced, basically, the government to release Ovidio.
But then things turned.
Cartel gunmen surrounded the home, armed with military-grade weapons,
turning the city into a virtual war zone.
Outnumbered and outgunned, the security forces said they had no choice.
They let Guzman Lopez go.
And there are plenty of difference because we're talking about two different groups,
two different states.
The control that Los Chapitos had over, Kulia-Kanexin, was way deeper and tighter
than the control that Cartel Halisco, a new generation, has over.
Well, Al-Alada and the metropolitan zone here.
And the other things, because, of course, Al-Maggio was eventually killed,
and his body was taken to Mexico City.
Rightly so, I think if they would have left the body here,
the situation would have been very different.
So there are certainly major points to differentiate
what we're seeing now from previous instances.
How would it have been different if they had left the body there?
I think they would have created a situation in which there are incentives
for the many hitmen that work under Halisco,
Noa Generation to keep working, keep fighting in the city
that would have brought the conflict to the city,
which is precisely what they didn't want.
I think something that they learned,
the government learned from previous experiences,
especially El-Coliacan,
was that it's not a good idea to do this in a major urban area.
They did that in Kuliacan,
a city with a million people,
and it brought, broke.
havoc to the entire city.
So that's why they, I think, even though
Alimansu was believed to move around
a lot in places like Guadalajara
and the other municipalities nearby,
they waited to capture him
and eventually kill him in a more
more place. So I think there's
some learning about, you know, some lessons
that they implement this time around.
W.HL is back for the third season of heart-stopping women's hockey.
And this season, there are two new teams looking to make their mark on the ice,
the Seattle Torrent and Vancouver Golden Eyes.
When the world's best women's hockey players face off, anything can happen.
Will the Minnesota Frost achieve a three-beat?
Will a new team take home the trophy?
There's only one way to find out.
Watch the PWH for free on CBCJM.
What do you make of the decision to do it so close to a tourist destination?
Have you ever seen that before?
There's a lot of details that we don't know about the operation that we might never get to learn.
But this might have been a scenario which, you know, it's kind of like it's now or never type of situation.
And maybe it was the best moment because a lot of different factors were just, you know,
They played together and it was the moment to do it.
It was close, yeah, to a tourist destination.
It was also relatively close to Valhalla Hara,
but again, it was not in either of those cities.
I know, I take your point that we still don't know like a ton about the operation.
But just tell me what we do know at this moment.
You know, I know we've been told that they located El Mancho by tracking one of his girlfriends
to what was called a secluded love nest.
and ultimately he was killed in the shootout.
And so, like, what other details have we heard?
So the government today in the daily press or the president
usually hosts both the general of the army,
General Trevilla and the Secretary of Public Security,
Omar Garcia, which presented.
It was not super detailed,
but they shared a few nuggets here and there about the operations,
like what you just said, right,
that they were chasing, presumably.
a lover of El Meno.
They also shared things like that it was eight, in total, eight people, eight suspects that died.
The three of them died on the way to Mexico City in the helicopter that they were being flown
to Mexico City, including in El Mancho.
It was related that the body was positively identified as a mention there are other bodies
that are still yet to be positively and publicly identified, including important.
than lieutenants of El Minchot, really powerful for figures within the cartel as well.
So we were shared that as well.
We were shared, you know, the amount of money, the weapons that were seized during the operation.
Apparently, they used rocket launchers against some of the forces that arrived on air to the Zinn.
As a bit of an aside here, the lawyer for the alleged Canadian drug lord, Ryan Webb,
wedding, who I'm sure you're very familiar with and who has recently taken into U.S. custody.
Accused of leading a billion-dollar cocaine empire escorted from Mexico to California, the FBI director,
right behind him.
He went from an Olympic snowboarder to the largest narco-trafficker in modern times.
He was quite adamant in a statement today that his client did not give the U.S. any intelligence
that helped lead to the killing of Almencho.
I mean, I guess are you buying that?
Like, why would the lawyer need to come out so forcefully?
Yeah, like, why do you even think we heard that?
So I think that both the U.S. government and the Mexican government have deployed more really sophisticated intelligence gathering operations in the country, not to depend upon whether a suspect in the U.S. court gives them information.
And precisely because this sort of operations really need the most updated, fresh details as possible about location, who they're with, what sort of like, you know, guards they have around, what sort of like what is the location they're at.
So this is information that most likely Ryan Wedding was not preview, was not, you know, didn't have with him.
But I see why he would put out this strong statement, you know, saying, don't even look at here.
This has nothing to do with Ryan Wedding.
Because, I mean, there's going to be a lot of the removal, you know, taking out and Munch is going to bring a lot of violence and reaccommodation within the group, within the cartel.
Yeah.
And that maybe he's the Fred that as part of that, you know, maybe they can somehow point that this was orchestrated with the help of Ryan Wedding.
So I think for security reasons for his client, he might have been that adamant, you know, denying all connections.
Can you tell me more about Almancho?
His real name is Nemesio, Asguera, Cervantes.
I understand before he was Mexico's most wanted kingpin
with this $15 million bounty on his head from the U.S.,
he was at one point a police officer.
And just how did he come to be such a powerful crime boss?
Right.
Despite the power and, you know, the position that he
reached within
Halisco. He hasn't been
sort of like a storied
kingpin and couple
similar to what, you know,
El Chapo-Uzman, El Mano Samba
to that level, despite him being
as equally powerful as
them. Very briefly,
El Mancho, you know,
grew up in poverty here in Mexico
at some point, like so many Mexicans,
he migrated to the U.S.
He was in the U.S. where he was
caught, you know, like pushing some drugs. So he's, he had a stint in a, in a California jail,
after which he was sent to Mexico and back in Mexico. He worked as a police officer, which is not
something unlike, like uncommon for people who have been in jail for drug-related offenses and
crimes, which is fixed very badly about the recruitment processes. I mean, we're still talking
about the 90s, but still. And then after having these others stint in the,
in the police forces in Halisco.
He begins working for one cartel,
El Cartelle de Millennial, which is now an extinct organization,
that at some point had an alliance with Cinaloa cartel
and they were fighting a very brutal organization called Los Zetas.
I'm talking, this is happening around late 2010.
And they, Cartel Milene in Sinaloa,
create this paramilitary sort of like organization
exclusively devoted to fight Los Ceylonel.
which was this very brutal cartel.
And the idea is to be as brutal and as violent as Los Zetas.
And this began being called Los Matasetas, the CETA killers, basically, the Zerakilers.
And that's where in Manchester starts kind of like, you know, going up the ladder in this specific organization, which eventually turns into what is known today as the Halisco Cartel.
Right, because they splinter at some point from Cinelloa.
Right.
From a millennial cartel.
Correct, which is the story of organized crime in Mexico.
The story of organic crime in Mexico is the story of splintering and, you know, having fractures and groups dividing and then internal fighting and then one group kind of like getting the upper hand at the end and then other groups reaccommodating around that.
And that is, that is something that, you know, might be at port as kind of like in the making of with beheading Halisco cartel and taking an mensch out.
And just Almencho himself, he's known for being particularly brutal, right?
Is that fair for me to say?
I think the cartel, the cartel.
The cartel.
Part of the brand of the Halisco cartel is being very violent, very brutal.
And it's a narco-trafficking organization, but I understand their operations kind of went well beyond drugs as well.
And just how would you summarize the breadth of the Halisco New Generation cartels' operations?
in drugs and then also beyond.
Right.
So, yeah, you're right.
Halisco Cartos is one of the frontrunners in the production and trafficking of drugs in Mexico,
especially fentanyl.
They also, and they're always on the, you know, the yearly reports of the DEA,
they're always on top of, you know, the main producers and drug seekers of fentanyl.
And other drugs as well, they also are in the business of bringing plant-based drugs from South America,
i.e. cocaine to Mexico and then chip it into other destinations across the world.
But it's not only drugs that they are invested in.
There are other criminal rockets, criminal markets in which they also operate.
For instance, they're huge in the parts of Mexico, the regions of Mexico that are rich
in terms of agricultural activity, also mining zones, charging extortion
fees for, you know, for the producers of either avocados, lemons, or the many minerals that are mined in
different parts of Mexico. So, for instance, for avocados, the cartel and the groups operating under
Halisco, with Halisco charge five pestos for every kilo of avocado that a producer grows in specific parts.
For instance, this is in Mitrocan. So they're also big on that. They also have a presence in the
fuel smuggling, fuel theft market in Mexico, which is also very lucrative.
So they also, they have diversified, same as other criminal groups.
They have diversified into these multiple illicit and illicit businesses.
These members of the cartel, there's these videos online of members suited up in military gear
with just really highly sophisticated armored weapons and armored vehicles.
They've been said to have drones.
You talked about rocket launchers.
And like, how did they come to be so well armed?
So there is definitely the factor of the U.S. and the, you know, the gun industry in the U.S.
and the problem with weapons being smuggled south of the border, which is most homicides in Mexico.
I think seven out of time homicides are committed with guns.
And there are hundreds of thousands of guns and other weapons, small arms that are seized in
Mexico every single year. So that's one way that these groups arm, you know, themselves. But I think
Hale's goals of the things that were very, that at that point, at that point were sort of like a novelty.
And I'm talking about, for instance, armoring their cars, you know, in an artisanal, handmade way,
we call them monsters in Mexico. So these are pickup trucks that had heavy layers of different
metals attached to them.
This is something that, again,
was kind of like part of the brand.
And usually like the Halisco Cardo really, they became
this major military force and they
part of the brand was
showcasing the firepower in these widely
viral videos in which they would
shoot their weapons and
they would show, you know, the rockets
and the high power rifles
that they had access to.
And I think all another element
in how they became this powerful is because
they have a really strong pipeline of mercenaries, you know, foreign combatants, coming into Mexico
to train the hitman of the cartel in things like creating improvised explosive devices.
So there's been a lot of reports of mines, design, and built by Halisco No Generation, you know,
being thrown and being left in the strategic points of roads and highways in places like can, for instance,
So they were very creative and they certainly built up this massively and really important military, almost paramilitary force in the cartel.
And these guys, they, you know, in 2020, for example, have tried to assassinate the current Federal Secretary of Security,
who was the chief of police in Mexico City at the time with 28 hitmen and over 100 bullets.
And just how challenging has it been for the Mexican government?
government to contain this cartel and go after El Mancho in the past.
Right. I think you're making an important point with, you know, the attempt on Omar
Garcia Harfuch, now the secretary back then, the Mexico City security secretary now, the
Mexico's the national head of the security strategy. Because something that, you know, the Mexican
criminal landscape is very crowded. There are multiple groups. And another way in which
Alisco cartels stood out was they're willing.
their propensity, the proclivity to engage in this brazen attacks against government officials.
It was not only Hartfordch back then.
More recently, Halisko also killed a very popular mayor, for instance, in a big city
that really brought Mitrokan back to the top of the new cycle and sort of like a political
emergency for the federal government.
In terms of the second part of the question of that, how hard had it, has it been with
for the federal government to tackle, to confront the curle.
It certainly is a challenge.
Because I think it's not only, and specifically talking about now,
the challenge is not so much in the immediate aftermath.
You know, if these blockades, that is the immediate reaction.
But what's going to be challenging is what's going to happen with the Halisco-Cartel
ones in Menchu is not here.
because he had a very centralized and very tight grip on the entire structure.
And if someone arrives that is not as powerful or is seen as weak compared to is weaker compared to Almencho,
that might create incentives for groups and factions and, you know,
operatives within the cartel to splinter to fight over power.
And that is when the actual levels of violence might spike up.
Right. I know even President Claudia Scheinbaum herself has criticized previous leadership for taking out cartel leaders and the violence triggered in its aftermath.
And sort of this is the pitfalls. This is what people call the pitfalls of the kingpin strategy, that you could unleash more violence this way.
I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the role that you think the United States has played here.
So there was a statement that went out by the White House press secretary, Carolyn Levitt, commending Mexico's military, saying that U.S. and Mexican intelligence was used here.
Of course, the U.S. State Department had last year designated this cartel as a foreign terrorist organization.
How much pressure was Claudia Scheinbaum's government under to act here?
Definitely.
I mean, I do think before going to the U.S. factor, I do think it is important to just to keep in context that this is the strategy of being more confrontational against criminal groups that President Schianemann has deployed.
I do think it's also because she believes that in that policy.
She knows that that was a huge, a shortcoming of her mentor and predecessor or Andres Manuel López Obrador.
So I think she comes from there,
the factor of, after once Trump was elected and he, you know,
got to the White House, there's certainly more political pressure on delivering this high-value,
substantial outcomes in the fight against criminal groups.
In this specific case, I think what the shame bomb did was very smart.
Because she proved that her theory works.
You know, she has, for over a year now, there's been this tension.
and it seems like the U.S. and Mexico, they don't quite speak the same language in which Mexico keeps delivering, you know, in terms of drugs that are being diseased, drug labs that are being dismantled, people that have been captured, these mass transfers of suspects to U.S. custody.
So she's been betting on law enforcement big time and cooperation between the two countries.
But then you have Trump that every now and then says, we're ready to hit the cartels on land.
the US troops are ready to be on the ground on Mexican soul and do and run operations.
And then we had Caracas, which brought the reality, the possibility of an unilateral intervention.
It just brought it home. It's on the doorstep.
So I think with this, what the shame bomb did was proving her theory that, look, we can cooperate.
Let's cooperate. Let's have our security agencies sitting together.
Let's share information. Let's share intelligence. And let's act on that intelligence.
But when the time comes, when the moment arrives, Mexican troops can do it. And Mexican troops will do it as well. With this, should prove that theory. You know, Mexico can also, you know, run these operations. We don't need U.S. troops here. Let's keep on the terms of, you know, sharing intelligence, cooperation, having, you know, more specific policy items being developed between the two nations. But when the time is for, you know, the big show, Mexican troops can do it.
I know we kind of went over the fears that people have about what this could unleash,
but I wonder if you could just also articulate for me a little bit more how taking out
this cartel leader could have a positive net impact, potentially.
A positive.
Yeah.
I've been a cast about the negative impact.
I'm just thinking about the answer.
Yeah.
So I think as long as this is part of a broader strategy, this might be positive.
and what do you mean by a broader strategy?
As you said, the king penis strategy,
which is just chopping off the head of the snake,
removing the heads of the groups,
time and again has proved,
we have a lot of evidence saying that it doesn't work,
that it only creates more violence,
and the drug trafficking doesn't really stop.
So, but these sort of operations combined with other strategies
may actually work.
What other strategies do I mean?
talking about debilitating, weakening, dismantling the financial structures that hold these organizations,
the way they laundered the profits of the many crimes they commit.
For instance, that is very important.
And I think the U.S. and Mexico are also taking steps into that direction as well.
Now that we're talking about Puerto Vallarta, most recently, they dismantle and sanction
a long list of entities, Mexican entities, people, citizens as well.
connected to a very complex network of time sharing, scams in places like Porto Vallarta and other coastal cities,
through which they were laundering money.
So those sort of operations, you know, more on the lines of follow the money are also important to actually weaken a cartel, a structure like this.
They also need to go after the small figures, you know, like the foot soldiers, which credit where credit is due, Mexico has also been doing.
the president and secretary of Mara Garcia-Harf, which they update this figure. And I think right now,
it stands at 45,000 people who have been captured in drug-related offenses in Mexico.
The problem here is that if you don't stop the recruitment capacity of these organizations,
they're going to keep, you know, like bringing fresh bodies, fresh victims into the equation.
So as part of a larger, more comprehensive strategy, this, you know, taking down figures like El Manchu is fine.
I mean, and we also need to acknowledge that he committed crimes.
And we're talking about really brutal kind of not only like drug trafficking, which the most likely the U.S. is what they wanted him for.
I'm talking about like the crimes that against Mexican civilians here, you know, like brutal crimes that says massacres, disappearing people.
forcefully displacing people.
So this guy also needed to be held accountable for those crimes as well.
So, you know, like operations like this also serve that purpose.
DeVie, thank you so much.
Really appreciate it.
Of course, no, anytime.
All right, that's all for today.
I'm Jamie Plesson.
Thanks so much for listening.
Talk to you tomorrow.
For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.
