Front Burner - Modern Ukraine: A history in conflict (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Before launching his latest military attack on Ukraine last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin waged a counterfactual war on a century of the country’s history. In a nearly hour-long address, Putin claimed that modern Ukraine was an invention of founding Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin, and that Soviet Moscow gave Ukraine its independence in a historic mistake. Ukraine overwhelmingly voted for its own independence in a referendum in 1991. While Ukraine’s modern history has since been marked by corruption, Russian influence and episodes of violence, its people have also staged protests and even revolutions to protect their independence. Today on Front Burner, what two decades of Ukraine’s struggles with Russia tell us about why Ukrainians are still fighting today. Former NPR Moscow correspondent and current Wilson Center fellow Lucian Kim brings us the key events, many of which he reported on from Russia and Ukraine.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey everybody, Jamie here. So we're going to be spending the next two days looking at how we got to this truly world-changing moment. Today, we're going to be looking at the modern history of Ukraine in the Russian orbit as the country struggled to find its own path in the shadow of so many great forces. And I hope that you'll tune in tomorrow. We're going to be talking about

Vladimir Putin's reign, specifically how his past wars have led to this one. We think there's some really important context here, and we hope it helps you make some sense of what's happening right now. All right, let's get started. We have every reason to say now that it's Ukraine created by Vladimir Lenin. He's its creator and architect. Before Vladimir Putin sent troops toward Ukraine's capital last week, the Russian president used a televised address to make a different kind of assault on its democracy. The stable statehood hasn't been built in Ukraine.

And political electoral procedures serve just as a screen to divide power and assets between oligarchic plans. For nearly an hour, Putin tried to falsely recast 100 years of Ukrainian history, arguing it was never really a country. Modern Ukraine, he said, was an invention of the Bolsheviks, and the falling Soviet Union gave Ukraine its independence in some historic error. Now radicals and nationalists, including and first of all in Ukraine, they take the merit of winning independence.

But we can see that that's not the truth. But in truth, Moscow didn't give Ukraine its sovereignty. This world has a new country tonight. Ukrainians on Sunday voted for independence from the Soviet Union by an overwhelming 9-to-1 margin. In a 1991 referendum, every region in Ukraine was in favor of independence, including the eastern regions. Our republic must be free without Moscow. We don't need a union. We are rich in resources, raw materials. We can sell to others to survive, even prosper. Ukraine's democracy since the 90s has been a struggle, marked by corruption and episodes of violence. But Ukrainians have fought hard, even staged revolutions to protect their very real country. Today, a look back at the last two decades of Ukraine's struggle with Russian pressure

and why it's still fighting now. Lucien Kim is a former NPR Moscow correspondent and currently a fellow at the Wilson Center in Washington. He was in Russia and Ukraine for many of the key moments of this history. Hi, Lucy, and thank you so much for making the time to speak with me today. Hi, Jamie. It's great to be with you. So I know that you were a journalist for 25 years and covered Russia for 20 of those years.

And I also know that last week was the first time the news brought you to tears. And after all the past conflict that you reported on, why do you think you got so emotional now? Yeah, I've been thinking about why I would suddenly break out in tears. And I think the reason is because I'm so far away now. I'm 8000 kilometers away from Kiev right now. And it's the sense of helplessness, looking what's happening to Ukraine, a country that I covered as a journalist, but also on a very personal level, I came to love. I have a lot of friends who live in Ukraine. At the same time, I should say, my wife is Russian. Our son was born in Russia. I've devoted a lot of my life to is suddenly becoming a pariah state is also extremely difficult. It's unforgivable what's happening. But on a human level, there are a lot of ties I also have to Russia. Yeah. I want to start our look back at Ukraine today, back in 2004, when a man named Viktor Yanukovych was running for president. And I wonder if you could start by telling me briefly, who was Yanukovych? And what did he represent? Well, Yanukovych comes from the eastern part of Ukraine, which traditionally speaks Russian.

of Ukraine, which traditionally speaks Russian. Many people, but not all people, also have ties to Russia and maybe even identify as Russian. For many Ukrainians, he was too close to Russia. In fact, Vladimir Putin traveled to Ukraine to endorse Viktor Yanukovych. So many Ukrainians were deeply upset when the voting results came in, and it was clear that through vote rigging, he had won the election, and they went out on the street to protest. Hundreds of thousands of pro-democracy Ukrainians in the streets today protested against the results of the presidential election, pitting their candidate, the West-leaning challenger Viktor Yushchenko, against the pro-Moscow prime minister Viktor Yanukovych.

Tell me a bit more about those protests. This is the so-called Orange Revolution that I think people might remember, right? Exactly. The Orange Revolution was an amazing display of people power. If they shoot us, if they send tanks, no matter what, there's nothing that can overpower the will of the people. I think more than people power, it was an example of self-organization. Ukrainians self-organization. Ukrainians stayed out on the streets and main square of Kiev to protest. They organized their own food and their own security and in a very disciplined way and in a very dignified way achieved a re-vote that saw a different candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, that saw a different candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, win that election. In Kiev's Independence Square, where the historic protest began over a month ago,

opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko joined his supporters in a victory celebration early this morning. With most votes counted, the Western-leaning economist leads by an insurmountable nine percentage points. He thanked the hundreds of thousands who had taken to the streets to demand democratic change. He represented Ukrainians who believe in a pro-Western course for their country. I imagine Putin wasn't happy that his pick for president didn't get into office. Putin was very happy with what he saw unraveling on streets of Kiev. For him,

this was a flashback to the year 1989, when he was a KGB officer serving in East Germany. And he saw thousands and 10,000s of East Germans take to the streets of their cities, demanding democracy. Take a look at them. They've been there since last night. They are here in the thousands. They are here in the tens of thousands. Occasionally they shout, Die Mauer muss weg, the wall must go. Thousands and thousands of West Germans come to make the point that the wall has suddenly become irrelevant. Something, as you can see, almost...

The same thing happened in other parts of Central Europe. In Czechoslovakia, protests were known as the Velvet Revolution and helped bring down the communist regime there. They jammed the side streets, and they were not just students and intellectuals. There were workers, too, and in large numbers. And in case the Communist Party and its government did not get the message from the mere sight of this many people, they drove it home with their chants.

Putin saw these protests as the end of everything he knew of the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe. And for him, it was a deeply traumatic experience. traumatic experience. So when he saw something similar happening in Kiev, which is so much closer to Moscow, also culturally closer, he felt that this must be a Western conspiracy to slowly surround Russia and pressure it. And so how did he react? What did he do? Putin reacted with what we now call the gas wars. During Soviet times, a network of natural gas pipelines connected the rich Siberian gas fields with Western Europe. And most of those pipelines ran through Ukraine. And so in that sense, once Ukraine achieved its independence, Russia was dependent on pipeline running through Ukraine to deliver gas to its customers in Western Europe. At the same time, Russia gave natural

gas subsidies to Ukraine, in part to keep control over its government. What happened when Viktor Yushchenko came to the Ukrainian presidency is that there were constant disputes over gas prices, occasionally leading to the Russians shutting off the gas supply to Ukraine, which also affected Western Europe down the line. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Russia is doing its best to resume gas supplies to Europe that flow through Ukraine's pipelines. Putin blamed Ukraine for stopping the transit. What matters is that we opened the tap and are ready to supply gas, but on the Ukrainian side, the tap is closed and no gas is

being transported. For its part, Kiev is blaming Moscow, saying Russia has provided so little gas there is not enough pressure in the pipelines to pump it. And I certainly spent many New Year's Eves with my laptop waiting for the latest news to break at midnight, whether the Russians would cut off the gas or not. But it was an economic war. It was not a hot war. And nobody at that time, not in their wildest dreams, which is a little shocking to me. And in this election, observers said that it was actually pretty fair. And in this election, observers said that it was actually pretty fair. At the end of a bruising, ill-tempered campaign, pro-Moscow opposition leader Viktor Yanukovych emerged to declare himself Ukraine's new president. Official figures show that with almost all of the votes counted, he got about 48 percent, compared to 46 percent for his rival, the current pro-Western minister. So what does his election, Yanukovych's election, say to you about the split between how Ukrainians

felt about Russia at the time? Inside Ukraine, there were different visions of where the country should go, which is completely understandable given its history. It was long a part of the Russian Empire and really one of the key republics in the Soviet Union. Those economic and more than economic cultural and familial ties certainly existed. It was sort of the jewel in the crown of the Soviet Union. So many Ukrainians wanted good relations with Russia, good economic relations. There were a lot of business opportunities. And at the time, nobody could imagine that this kind of rapprochement could lead to war. Yanukovych

is often portrayed as being pro-Russian, but this is somewhat of an oversimplification. He was more than happy to be the president of an independent country, of an independent Ukraine. His problem was he was very greedy and corrupt. That's what led to his downfall in the end. Right. So in the lead up to his downfall, there were these massive protests in Kiev's Central Independence Square, also known as the Maidan, which started in 2013. I think people will also remember these. And what did Yanukovych do as president that sparked these protests? Ukrainians were deeply divided over Yanukovych's presidency. But what sparked those protests was Yanukovych's decision not to seek closer cooperation and closer alignment with the European Union. Earlier, his government had actually pursued that kind of track, but he came under enormous pressure from Vladimir Putin and backed out of a deal with the European

Union, which brought, again, thousands of people onto the streets of Kiev and turned into the Maidan protest, which now is also known as the Revolution of Dignity. And these protests, I remember they raged for months, these protests in Maidan. And how did violence between protesters and police escalate in February of 2014? The longer the protests lasted, the more desperate the Yanukovych government became. Violence also increased. Here in Kiev in recent days, the Maidan, an independent square, has turned into a full-scale war zone. Running street battles complete with barricades,

Molotov cocktails, and homemade bombs launched at government anti-riot forces. Finally, there was a bloody massacre. Unarmed protesters gunned down in the streets by the riot police who were retreating from Kiev's Maidan Square. By the end of the day, more than 50 people were dead, including three policemen. Ukraine's new leaders... Following that, the country was in complete shock. Yanukovych lost the last of his support, and he was forced to flee.

He simply vanished from Kiev. One morning, I was there. We woke up, and nobody knew where Yanukovych was. His estate outside of Kiev was empty. Protesters who went there found an empty mansion. The president tonight is in hiding. And just look at the images coming in now. Families wandering the grounds of his luxury home outside the capital today,

taking turns playing on his private golf course, helping themselves to his golf clubs. He was evacuated to Russia. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. What do you think this revolution signaled to Moscow?

If the Orange Revolution had really shocked Putin, for him, the second protest demanded action. After Yanukovych fled Ukraine, a provisional government consisting of Yanukovych's opposition took over, and they had a very pro-Western course. Putin portrayed this as a Western-sponsored coup d'etat and used that as a pretext for taking action, beginning with the occupation and annexation of Crimea, and later by supporting, in fact, creating a pro-Russian separatist movement in eastern Ukraine. I know that Putin moved into Crimea literally days after Yanukovych fled to Moscow, to Russia. I know you were there at the time. What happened when Russian troops moved in? That's right.

I was in Crimea when Russian special forces took over the main government building one night. I was staying in a hotel right across the street. And the next morning we woke up and there was a Russian flag on the building. His air force controls the skies. His army controls the roads, borders and military bases. And his Navy controls the ports and seas surrounding this peninsula. Putin rules in Crimea now. Russia has a long connection to Crimea. Crimea is the main base for Russia's Black Sea fleet. And Russia was leasing that base from Ukraine.

Yanukovych had extended the lease in exchange for lower gas prices. for lower gas prices. And the Russians used that base as a launch pad for its occupation of the entire peninsula. So I remember when those first soldiers began appearing, it was a bit unnerving. These were guys wearing uniforms without any insignia, and they were driving armored vehicles that looked very much like Russian armored vehicles. This morning, more unidentified pro-Russia armed militias controlling the streets of Crimea's capital. This is a Russian invasion, the U.S. says. It has no doubt these are Russian forces and has demanded their immediate withdrawal. But at the same time, Vladimir Putin was denying his troops were in the process of occupying Crimea. That caused a lot of confusion in the outside world. Everybody on the ground, the Crimeans

themselves, they knew they were being occupied by Russians. But at the same time, as a journalist, if I was writing a story, at the end of every story, we would add, the Kremlin denies that its troops are in Crimea. Both sides of the story, although one side of the story was flat out lying. Why didn't Ukraine do more to fight back against Russia invading Crimea? This is a question that a lot of Ukrainians still ask themselves. But I think it's very important to go back to that moment in time. The president of the country, Viktor Yanukovych, had just fled. Opposition leaders hastily formed a provisional government.

Communications that Ukrainian soldiers had to Kiev were cut. Ukraine was not expecting to be invaded by Russia. This was not in any plan. The Ukrainian army was underfinanced. It was also infiltrated by Russian agents. This was a perfect plan and a perfectly executed plan. I should add that because of the historic ties that Crimea has to Russia, a lot of the population was indifferent or even sympathetic. I know this because I had a driver. He came from a military family, originally from Russia. He had served in the Ukrainian military, but he had deeply ambivalent feelings about what was going on. One day, he would say, well, these guys wearing masks and guarding all these strategic locations, well, I don't know, I guess it's okay. And the

next day, he would tell me, no, this is not okay. They shouldn't be here. This shouldn't be happening. And I think in this confused situation, and the Russians executing a well-thought-out plan. The Ukrainians really couldn't put up much of a fight. After Crimea, as you touched on before, we see uprisings in a region called the Donbass in eastern Ukraine. And ostensibly, it's pro-Russian separatists that have declared independence from Ukraine. Since 2014, almost 13,000 people have been killed in the Donbass War. And two separatist republics were created with active support from Russia. Can you tell me more about Russia's role in this? The Donbass is the traditional industrial heartland, not just of Ukraine, but actually of the Soviet Union.

It played an outsized role in the industrialization phase of the Soviet Union. And after Ukraine's independence saw a steep decline in its fortunes, the mines were getting old, the industry was old and creaky. And so from a social point of view, the Ukrainian government subsidized the coal industry, even though it was not the most logical place to mine coal anymore. They supported it because they wanted to avoid social conflict. There was a lot of dissatisfaction already in the Donbass region in eastern Ukraine. And when the people in Donbass saw Viktor Yanukovych, who came from the Donbass, flee to Russia, there were fears in eastern Ukraine that they would be punished, that they would be punished for speaking Russian. That's the traditional language spoken there. And there were fears they would become victims of revenge. A lot of those fears were fueled by

Kremlin propaganda. And as I tell people, what the propaganda was saying were lies, but the people's fears were real. This is the same thing that happened in Crimea. but the people's fears were real. This is the same thing that happened in Crimea. Of course, the Donbass is different in that many, if not most people in the Donbass identify as Ukrainians. If you look on a map, there's sort of a crescent, sort of the southeast of Ukraine, which traditionally speaks Russian. And maybe Putin looked at that map and said, there are Russian speakers there. They will rise up against Kiev and want to form Russia-aligned separatist republics. That grand uprising did not happen. What Putin did not understand was that a new generation of Ukrainians had also grown up there. They spoke Russian,

and they were proud Ukrainians at the same time. The biggest myth of this conflict is that it is about Russian language. Otherwise, they continue to assimilate Russian speakers by force. They are adopting more and more discriminatory decrees. All of my Ukrainian friends that I have, almost all I would say, are Russian speakers. I speak Russian with them. I write messages to them in Russian. Putin has tried to portray it as an issue of language or ethnicity, and it isn't.

It is an imperial conquest. But we heard him use this language justification last week, right? He argued that he was sending Russian troops in to protect Russian speakers, who Ukraine's government was bullying or, according to him, even committing genocide against. Right? Exactly. This has been the standard Russian argument, not just beginning last week, but going all the way back to 2014, when we also heard the word genocide of Russians, of Russian speakers. It's not

what's actually happening there. It hasn't been documented by anyone. Was it more than just propaganda that Putin used to spark these uprisings? Oh, absolutely. In the aftermath of the Crimean annexation, protests broke out in eastern Ukraine, and the Ukrainian authorities believed that it was largely instigated by Russians coming across the border. A lot of these protests became quite violent. There were seizures of Ukrainian government buildings. This protest period lasted a very short period of time before these self-proclaimed separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine, all of a sudden declared that they were independent republics. The Russian military itself, again, despite the denials of the Kremlin, intervened in key battles

in eastern Ukraine when it looked like the Ukrainians might actually defeat the separatists. In other words, the Russian army saved those separatists and afterwards propped them up. Lucien, we are seeing ordinary citizens in Ukraine take up assault rifles to keep Russian troops out of their cities right now. And what do you think Ukrainians are fighting so hard to protect here? Well, first and foremost, they're fighting to protect their homes. They are being invaded. If you want to take a step back, of course, they are also defending Ukrainian independence. This has been a centuries-long struggle, and people understand what's at stake.

They do not want to live in Putin's empire. They don't want to live in Putin's empire. They don't want to live in a failed state. They want to be members of the European family of nations. President Zelensky spoke passionately via video link to the European Parliament. We are fighting just for our land and for our freedom. Despite the fact that all life cities of our country are now blocked, nobody is going to break us. We are strong. We are Ukrainians.

Putin apparently did not expect this. It seems like a lot of the information he has about Ukraine, it may not even be outdated. It may just be completely wishful thinking on his part. The way Putin portrays this conflict, Ukraine has been hijacked by a small group of neo-Nazis and drug addicts, to use his words, if he truly believes that, he's in for a really horrible surprise. And so, you know, today we've talked about how Putin has had military successes in the past in Ukraine. And is this why you think this time could be different? I think if we look at the numbers of the troop strength and the amount of weaponry, obviously Russia is far superior. Russia,

of course, has the ability to prevail, but there are dangers for Putin as well. The longer the resistance lasts in Ukraine, the more undeniable proof of Russian casualties gets back to Russia. If it becomes undeniable that this is a war and not, as Putin says, a special military operation, we don't know what might happen in Russia. Nobody in Russia expected this. The main propaganda channels had been mocking predictions by the United States that this was coming. They had mocked it up to the moment that it happened and started. It's still early days and Putin has really entered uncharted territory, obviously for Ukraine, but also for his own country. Lucien, thank you. Thank you so much for this. Sure. My pleasure. All right, that is all for today. If you are a fan of this show, we would love it.

If you would take the time to review and rate us, it really, really helps people find us. Talk to you tomorrow.