Front Burner - Modi, Hindu nationalism, and what's at stake with India's election

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

The election in India, the world's largest in history, has just wrapped up after a month of voting. Many see it as a referendum on sitting Prime Minister Narendra Modi's last five years in power. New Delhi journalist Murali Krishnan explains who Modi is, and why his brand of populism raises the stakes of this election.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. As I talk about it, I can feel and smell everything that I did back then. And he looks down at me, I'm looking up at him, and he says, that's my little girl. It's a 30-year-old homicide where we don't have anybody charged and convicted.

Felt like a murderer had gotten away with something. Tell me now, did you have anything to do with the murder? Someone Knows Something with David Ridgen, Season 5. Now available. Go to cbc.ca slash sks. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. The national vote just closed yesterday in India. It's an astonishing exercise in democracy. There are 900 million eligible voters in the country. In all, it requires more than 2 million electronic voting

machines and 12 million civil servants are enlisted to help run it all smoothly. People have been heading to their local polls since mid-April in seven stages to elect a new lower house of parliament. As an Indian citizen, I see it as an opportunity for me to vote and to at least contribute for the development of the country. This election is widely seen as a referendum on current Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his last five years in power. We build a youth, especially youth expecting a lot from Narendra Modi and Narendra Modi will do for us. Narendra Modi zindaba!

Modi is known for pushing a Hindu nationalist agenda in all realms of life in India. And as a result, there is this growing fear for religious minorities, especially Muslims in the country. In a corner of India famous for its tea and silk, Muslims are living in fear of being driven out of the country. If Modi wins again, already existing divides between religious groups in India are expected to grow even wider. Today, we'll help you understand who Narendra Modi is, and how his identity and beliefs really raise the stakes for the largest democratic election in history. This is FrontBurner.

I'm here with Murali Krishnan. He's a freelance journalist based in New Delhi who's been covering Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi for years. Hi, Murali. Hi there. Thanks so much for joining us today. So Modi is this kind of leader who I know makes himself ubiquitous in India. And to start this conversation today, can you give me an anecdote from daily life in New Delhi that would help us understand that? First of all, he's a very narcissistic human being in the sense that he loves himself. He loves being photographed. He loves taking selfies.

And ahead of this general election, what his party did was try to get his photograph embossed on railway tickets and even on teacups, which are sold on railway stations. So that's the kind of sort of publicity which he seeks to find. And unfortunately, you know, that move by his party, the Bharati Janata Party, the BJP, was quickly removed because it was seen as being unfair advantage to a political party in an election. And the Election Commission promptly directed the party to stop advertising Narendra Modi on railway tickets. Election Commission heat on central ministers. In fact, a poll panel writes to Ministry of Railway and Ministry of Civil Aviation asking them to buy pictures of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. I've also seen that he likes to deliver his messages in the form of like 3D holograms.

So this is basically a 3D chakra fan which has hologram projection. So when you go to villages, people are very curious to see it. 3D holograms. So this is basically a 3D chakra fan, which has hologram projection. So when you go to villages, people are very curious to see it, you know, 200 to 300 people crowd around it and see it. And he's like, basically projecting himself simultaneously across towns everywhere in India. Can you tell me a bit more about that? Oh, yes. There's something which he is quite sort of happy doing. And in fact, I mean, that's something which the BJP prides itself in. It's actually a very tech-savvy party. You know, it's very vibrant on social media.

And Narendra Modi, the prime minister, takes the lead on that. Remember, he's one of the most highly followed politicians on Twitter. He's got millions and millions of followers. You mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that he's a narcissist, you know, and he likes to talk about himself. When he's doing this, what kind of image is he projecting? He does not lose a moment talking about how he has come up the hard way, how he started off being an uneducated youth. He was selling tea. Modi's personal story made a powerful connection. As a poor teen, he once sold tea at a train station in Gujarat, but worked his way up to eventually rule the state. I'm pretty sure that what Modi has done in Gujarat in the last 12 years,

he's going to do the same model to whole India. What he has done here is he's carefully built up a political career and he's come up the rungs of the ladder, shall we say that. And he's climbed up that political ladder very enthusiastically and also knowing what the goal should be. And that largely is also because of the fact of the phenomenal rise of the right-wing BJP over the years. So one more thing that I want to talk to you about as we're talking about Narendra Modi,

the man, is this Bollywood biopic about him that wasn't allowed to screen in the lead up to the election? The Election Commission of India, it stopped the producers from streaming a web series about Narendra Modi. There were concerns that it would give him an unfair advantage in the country's general election. And similarly similarly there was the banning of a flattering bollywood film also it was a biopic largely on him that was also stopped the five-part series was called modi the journey of a common man oh wow yeah it was available on video on demand. And basically it traces the Hindu nationalist journey, which is him, from the son of a tea seller to the role of a prime minister. And that was not allowed to be screened because the opposition parties were screamed hoarse, saying that this is no way it could be done.

And this was propaganda for the BJP and it would not be a level playing field for the rest of the political parties. And I understand he's got his own television channel too? Absolutely. It's called Namo TV. Taken from his first two words, Na Narendra Modi. Oh, it's named after him. Wow. Yeah, it's named after him. It's a 24-hour channel sponsored by the BJP and it shows Narendra Modi's rallies

and speeches. And that's something which is being shown right now even as we talk. It came into being much before the election. So that's why which is being shown right now, even as we talk. It came into being much before the election. So that's why the election watchdog body could do nothing to stop its beaming. Okay, so the election watchdog body was able to take his face off railway tickets and they were able to stop the release of this Bollywood film,

but his TV channel is still very much up and running. Absolutely, yes. So to try and understand what's at stake in this current election, this massive election, I know we have to go back to when Narendra Modi was voted in. A new wave has swept India, some say a new age, courtesy of Narendra Modi was voted in. A new wave has swept India, some say a new age, courtesy of Narendra Modi, a man whose win, supporters say,

transcends class, caste and creed in India. And he won this incredibly decisive victory in 2014 with his party you mentioned before, the BJP. And I know that he talked about economic development a lot. India will work as one. India will grow as one. And also religious nationalism. You mentioned earlier his Hindu nationalist journey. I'm proud to belong to a religion which has taught the world both tolerance and universal acceptance. world both tolerance and universal acceptance. And can we go through some of the key messages that he talked about back then? At that time, people saw hope in Narendra Modi. He was a fresh

voice. He was a new face. Everyone knew that he had delivered in his home state, Gujarat, of economic development. And they thought this could possibly translate it across the country if he were to be made prime minister. So therefore, the slogans which he raised in terms of development, economic progress, employment for the youth, those were slogans which many thought would be translated into action. And he promised that all this would be delivered in five years if he was voted to power.

And that's why he won a very handsome majority. I think it's clearly a very clear Mr. Modi tsunami. You can see the jubilation of the workers. It's very apparent this is about the economy. Normal people, the youth, especially youth, expecting a lot from Narendra Modi. I remember he was also very critical of the government at the time, the Indian National Congress, which had been in power for decades prior to the last election.

It's this political dynasty. For voters who went with Modi at the time, what did he represent? Modi has not lost any occasion to run down the Congress party, which has ruled India for over 60 years of dynastic rule. party which has ruled India for over 60 years of dynastic rule. First Indira Gandhi, before that her father Jawaharlal Nehru, then Rajiv Gandhi, then after which Sonia Gandhi was the mentor of the Congress party. So therefore he has not lost an opportunity to attack the Congress, saying that dynastic rule must end. Narendra Modi didn't just win a majority of seats in India's election, he trounced a dynasty, leaving the Congress party and the dominance of its famous Gandhi family in ruins. I will take every citizen on a journey of development, Modi promised in his victory speech. After 10 years of Congress ruled government, there was an inertia, there was this kind of a fatigue which had set in.

And therefore, people thought that Narendra Modi would be the harbinger of change. I want to get to in a minute whether these promises that he made, particularly around economic development, actually played out. But first, you know, today, it's hard to read anything about Narendra Modi without hearing about Hindu nationalism and the impact that this has had on other religious groups in India. on other religious groups in India. Can you tell me how that concept of Hindu nationalism has played out since Modi took power? Well, like I said, when he came into power, there was hope. There was hope that this country would progress and that there would be development. Unfortunately, midway into his term,

the worst fears began to sort of have its effect. There was this concept of how India was meant for Hindus. Hindutva, which is a political doctrine, was sought to be enforced in many areas of the country, which was basically to assert Hindu identity and that was quite frightening given the fact that India no country in the world matches the scale of its religious linguistic and ethnic diversity and for a prime minister and his cabinet to sort of enforce Hindutva Hindu cultural nationalism was quite upsetting and very frightening because it was not only to be translated in governance but also in other spheres of

of the government which in terms which was culture education and also the treatment of other minorities in this country namely the Muslims and the Christians the government denies its running an anti-Muslim drive, but that's hard for some to swallow. Local authorities say they will strip any illegal Muslims they find of their constitutional rights. Can you give me some examples of how it was translated and how it also affected minorities in the country?

First of all, they sought to sort of impose a ban on the eating of beef in many parts of the country. Eating beef obviously meant sort of slaughtering buffaloes or cows. And many people were arrested, put in jail, which obviously impinged on their right to eat and livelihoods. Right. And this is because Hindus don't eat beef. Absolutely. For many Hindus, the cow is considered a sacred, holy animal. It's sort of ingrained in its many scriptures and religious texts. But then there are many people in this country, poorer people, the Muslims, the Christians, and even the poorer Hindus in various swathes of the country who still eat beef. And therefore, we find this kind of intolerance which was creeping in. You mentioned that people were arrested.

Did this manifest in any violence? Oh yes, absolutely. It's two in the morning. Dujakan Chauhan is on his way to meet his men, a group of Hindu vigilantes who have formed a self-appointed militia to defend cows. This is their last briefing before they begin their illegal patrol. We're going to set up another checkpoint here to stop all trucks. For our country and for our religion, we will do anything.

For cows, who are like mothers to us. People who have been lynched for having consumed beef across the country. And that is extremely worrisome. And unfortunately, Narendra Modi did not raise his voice on many occasions till he was forced to a corner. When I remember clearly when there was this huge hysteria being built up saying that the BJP does not stand for tolerance. It's trying to impose its own dangerous, divisive ideology.

And that's when he finally had to speak saying that we have to respect other communities and also respect what they have to eat. But then many states in this country still have beef bans, which are in place. I have one question that I'm curious about here. You know, this is a country that is a majority Hindu population, but there are also sizable minority populations. You know, we've been talking about Muslims, they make up about 14% of the population of India and 200 million people. The Indian National Congress, which ran this country for decades, was also run by Hindus.

And so why are we seeing the rise or the manifestation of this Hindu nationalism now with the BJP? It was perhaps covert when Narendra Modi assumed power in 2014. But now it's in full bloom. It's just like asking, why is it that white supremacists have come to the fore in the United States? Why is right wingers so important in other parts of the world? I think the Hindu nationalists frame the threat posed by the Muslim minority by associating them with Pakistan. And therefore, raising the specter probably of an increased Muslim population, which could be a threat to the Hindu population. That is why this Hindu cultural nationalism has come to play in a big way. Is it fair for me to say that this is something that the Indian National Congress and its leaders

never did? No, the Indian National Congress never dabbled in such dangerous politics or an ideology which was divisive to India's secular democratic traditions. I want to come back to some of what Modi initially campaigned on, putting aside the rise of Hindu nationalism. He also campaigned on economic development. He promised to deal with youth unemployment, struggling farmers, as you were talking about before. And what has he done on that front? How has that played out? This election campaign was supposed to focus on his five-year tenure to talk of all the promises, whether they have been translated into action. Unfortunately, that has not been the case. What we're seeing right now is unemployment at unimaginable levels.

Millions of educated young Indians like these protesters cannot find jobs. The unemployment rate has hit a record high. We are seeing an agrarian distress also. Farmers from across the country have gathered in the national capital to protest against the centre and its policies as well as the agriculture sector. White never seen in many, many years. All that is somehow missing in Prime Minister Modi's narrative or even his election campaign. His reelection bid right now has completely changed.

He is raising and stoking fear among the Hindu majority of the potential dangers posed by the presence of a large Muslim minority in India. And that seems to be something which he is actively doing and promoting because knowing fully well his promises have failed in the last five years. The theme of terrorism, Pakistan, Muslim threat has come to him almost on a platter. In the streets of Karachi, Pakistan today, clear signs of explosive tensions. Demonstrators set fire to a picture of the Indian prime minister. They marched with a banner marked, Death to India. All this within hours of a dramatic escalation of the friction between neighbors. In February, in Indian-administered Kashmir, 40 Indian paramilitary

soldiers died, and it was widely blamed on Pakistan's terror outfits. So what we're seeing right now, instead of focus, Narendra Modi speaking on the performance of his government or his cabinet, they have made the attack the basis of their election campaign. Is that working, you know, even with all these economic problems? Has he been able to change that narrative? Or does his main competitor, Rahul Gandhi of the Indian National Congress, actually stand a shot here? Rahul Gandhi, the head of Congress, has just voted. And as Modi's main challenger, there's a great deal of interest in what he has to say. It was a good fight, he says.

Modi used hate, we used love. And I believe that love is going to win, he says. Well, you see, this muscular nationalism of his does have takers in certain pockets of India. There are no two ways about that. The opposition, however, does not lose an opportunity to attack him on this. And they puncture his sort of inflated ego, saying that he has completely failed on the entire development agenda. So we've been hearing from you today about this ubiquitous leader who's focusing on Hindu nationalism. And, you know, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on what's at stake here,

you think, for the population more widely, like, let's say Narendra Modi wins this election. If Narendra Modi does win this election, manages to sort of cobble up a majority along with his allies and forms and becomes a prime minister for the second time. I think India is in for a bad spell. You know, there's a fear of insecurity. There's a fear of, you know, being excluded from the India story. India story. This feeling persists among India's Muslims, India's Christians, India's Sikh minorities, and their fears could be perhaps doubled if Narendra Modi's BJP comes back to power. Murali, thank you so much for taking us through this really important story today. Thank you.

So as I mentioned before, there are 900 million eligible voters in India across 36 states. It's probably not a surprise to you that it's going to take a few days to count those votes. Election results are expected on Thursday. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone. Available now.