Front Burner - Mulan and China’s growing cultural reach

Episode Date: September 11, 2020

Activists are calling for a boycott of the newly released Mulan remake, after revelations that it was partly filmed in Xinjiang, a province of China known, through extensive reporting, for the detention and persecution of Uighur Muslims. Today, freelance writer Frankie Huang on the controversy and what it reveals about China's influence on Western culture.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. You might have first learned about Mulan in the late 90s, when the hugely popular Disney movie came out. My ancestors sent a little lizard to help me. Hey, dragon, dragon, not lizard.

I don't do that tongue thing. You're, um... Intimidating? Or inspiring? Tiny. The story, based on a 6th century poem, is about a young woman who disguises herself as a man in order to save her father from going to war.

Fast forward 22 years to the live-action remake, and a very different Mulan emerges. You need to find the Emperor. We'll hold them back! Till next we meet, Hong Kuei. Mulan is played in this version by the actor Liu Yifei as a fierce superhero skilled in martial arts, and she's got a singular goal, save the Emperor. Mulan's loyalty to China is central to the retelling of the story,

which seems to foreshadow much of the controversy the movie has faced since the remake was announced. American actress Liu Yifei angered fans with a social media post reportedly supporting Hong Kong's police, who have been accused of using... And now, after the film's release on Disney Plus last week, there are renewed calls for a boycott. That's because of the movie's ties to Xinjiang province in China.

According to multiple investigations, about a million Uyghurs and other minority Muslim groups are or have been detained and persecuted there. But this is something that the Chinese government continues to deny. Today, I'm talking to Frankie Huang about the controversial remake of Disney's Mulan and what that says about China as a cultural power. Frankie has written a lot about the subject. I'm Josh Bloch. This is FrontBurr. Hello, Frankie. Hi.

We'll get to the controversy around this remake of Mulan in a moment, but I want to start with your own connection to Mulan. What was the first time that you heard about her? Probably when I was a young girl, maybe age eight or nine. The Ballad of Mulan is a classic poem taught to Chinese children. And at one point, I was able to recite it from memory. And it's a story that I always really loved because I was also a tomboy. And, you know, this story of a girl joining the army in disguise and doing better than all the men

was extremely empowering to me. And she's just a figure really dear to my heart. On each scroll, there's father's name. Father has no grown up son. Mulan has no elder brother. I want to buy a saddle and horse and serve in the army in father's place. And then of course, this this folk hero inspires a hugely successful Disney movie in the late 90s. What did that character mean to you growing up? So I was already living in the U.S. by the time that came out, and I've always been a lifelong Disney fangirl.

So seeing the studio make a feature-length movie about one of my favorite characters was a dream come true. But when I saw the movie, I admit I was a little bit disappointed by some of the careless details they included that I think could have been more true to Chinese culture and practices if they, I think, did more research. But in hindsight, it's probably because those elements were to appeal to the Western viewers.

I remember specifically when she dressed up for the matchmaker. To please your future in-laws, you must demonstrate a sense of dignity. You must also be poised. Um, pardon me. And silent! Her face was powder white, and I think it made me think much more of

Japanese geishas than Chinese ladies, but all in all it was still a movie I really, really loved. The music was really wonderful, and I didn't really mind Mushu that much. Now let's see your wall face. Oh, I think my bunny slippers just ran for cover.

Come on, scam me, girl! Even though, you know, that was a very American element to the movie. Right, but I suppose despite these inauthenticities, Disney does have a kind of powerful cultural force within China, right? For sure. I think it came out a year later in China than in the U.S. due to some sanctions. But I'm sure a lot of the children in China were maybe not as excited as I was, but just as excited to see Disney make a Chinese story. And Disney is a brand that's synonymous with childhood. They entered China very early when I was growing up

in the late 80s, early 90s. I'm in my 30s and so are a lot of my peers in China. They think of Disney as something really pure and wonderful that they enjoyed as children. So how would you describe the character of Mulan in this latest live-action remake? Well, it's certainly very different. She was designed to appeal much more to the Chinese market, which is humongous compared to how it was in the 90s. Disney knew that the 98 version was not

well received in part because of some of the cultural inauthenticities and they wanted to course correct so we got this much more serious stoic mulan and i think it's because Disney was probably concerned that humor would be interpreted as disrespect, like laughing at Chinese culture. So they gave us this very serious historical-esque movie, even though if you actually watched a film, it cherry picks different elements from Chinese history to create this fantasy version of China. Citizens, we are under attack from northern invaders. Their leader calls himself Ory Khan. But they sort of want you to feel that Disney is being respectful. And I think they're hoping the Chinese audiences would be much more receptive to that. Were you surprised by the patriotic tone of it? Or does that just feel in line with like

patriotic American films like Saving Private Ryan? It doesn't make any sense, sir. Why? Why do I deserve to go? Why not any of these guys? They all fought just as hard as me. Is that what they're supposed to tell your mother when they send her another folded american flag well that's a little bit different i think um saving private ryan well first of all it can it artistically um on another level but i think they also are a little bit more subtle about their nationalism um i think viewers can watch that movie and not realize that it's also sort of propaganda for for the military but for mulan

it was almost embarrassingly blatant that this is yeah like as strong nationalistic elements and maybe it's because disney looked at all the top performing movies in the chinese domestic box office and noticed that a lot of them are um basically propaganda films um wolf warrior comes to mind, Wandering Earth as well. They're all about people sort of fighting for China and being, you know, superhuman and overcoming all odds. And I think Mulan was perhaps trying to do the same. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%.

That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So the stakes are pretty high for this film. Disney reportedly spent $200 million US on it. And it needs it to succeed internationally and arguably especially in China. However, the movie has also been mired in controversy, most recently having to do with where it was filmed. Can you talk a bit about that? A few sharp-eyed viewers noticed that the film thanked multiple Chinese government agencies in the credits. Several of them are located in Xinjiang,

and a few journalists and researchers sort of looked into some of the locations, journalists and researchers sort of looked into some of the locations, as well as the, I think, Instagram post made by director Nicky Carroll during a scouting trip in Xinjiang. It became very obvious that some of the filming that took place was very, very close to where Uyghur concentration camps were located. China doesn't want the world to see Xinjiang up close. To see the crackdown, it calls an answer to terrorism. There have only been fleeting glimpses of swelling detention centres, but now there's real proof, secret blueprints of mass incarceration and indoctrination of Muslims.

I also learned that most foreign studios are not permitted to film in that area. So in order for Disney to get permission, they probably jumped through a lot of hoops to be there. And so just to be clear, I mean, this is incredibly controversial because Xinjiang province is where there's roughly a million people, mainly Muslim Uyghurs. It's where they live. And we know from leaked government documents that many of them are imprisoned and indoctrinated in these re-education camps, which the Chinese government denies. What's been the reaction to this news once people found out about the film's relationship to that province? Well, I've been noticing major media platforms picking up the story right away and highlighting what we already know about the concentration camp situation in China.

And given the amount of attention it's getting, I think a lot of people who maybe knew a little bit about what's happening, but were not quite so aware are learning exactly how complicit Disney has been in lending its own legitimacy to what's happening in Xinjiang. there's backlash. I saw this one celebrity, I think it's Padma Lakshmi, maybe, tweet about watching Mulan with her daughter, and then someone told her about what's actually happening. And she, you know, sort of corrected her statement and said, I had no idea, but now I know better. And I think that's probably happening for a lot of people, particularly for Asian Americans who were at first just concerned with maybe how China and Chinese culture is portrayed in the movie. Now, I think some of them are also realizing that this is much bigger than just a story. It's about justice. And it also seems to have renewed calls to boycott the movie, which was a movement that actually started last year when the lead actress Liu Yifei shared her opinion on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

What did she say back then that prompted that original call to boycott the film? The equivalent of tweeting on Weibo, which is a microblogging platform in China, saying like explicitly stating her support for the police and saying essentially shame on you, Hong Kong, for making the police have to put you down. A new decade in Hong Kong begins in chaos with police cracking down on protesters. in chaos with police cracking down on protesters. What began last year as protests over an extradition bill has morphed into demands for democracy, sending hundreds of thousands into the streets. The police tactics used to try to quell them are garnering unflattering international scrutiny.

And I was actually watching the situation very closely myself, and I was waiting for Disney to make a statement and reprimand her or take a stand on the situation. You know, this was also unfolding around the time when NBA was having their own controversy surrounding a general manager of Houston Rockets supporting the protest. And the National Basketball Association or NBA in the U.S. is facing a huge backlash for its reaction to this tweet by the Houston Rockets general manager. A tweet backing pro-democracy demonstrations right here in Hong Kong.

The NBA is apparently siding with Beijing, calling Daryl Morey's tweet regrettable. The NBA's response is also raising questions, questions over the lengths that businesses in the U.S. have to go and are willing to go to stay in favor with the Chinese government for access to the lucrative Chinese market. The calls for boycotting Mulan kind of came after Disney like very pointedly stayed silent on the whole situation and waited for the media cycle to just take it away but I think they're trying to do the same now I don't think they've issued any statements since the the Xinjiang aspect of the film came to light and I don't think it's going to work a second time

for them to just let everyone forget about this and move on. I mean, it seems that Disney, like the NBA, is sort of caught in this bind almost between not offending the Chinese government, but then also not alienating audiences outside of China and not seeming like they're not standing up for values of human rights and democracy and freedom of expression. Yeah, I think this is something that all large international, multinational brands will have to deal with if they're interested in the China market, because access to that market is becoming

increasingly conditional to, you know, tacitly being complicit to what the Chinese government is doing. And it's no longer something you can have both ways. The film opens in China today, and I saw that there are reports that mainland Chinese media outlets are being asked not to review the film. What do you think that says about the call for the boycott and the impact that it might be having? I think the call for boycott and all the international attention is making the Chinese government feel pretty cagey about the whole thing. I think originally they were going to throw their support behind the film and encourage people to go see it because it's, you know, a celebration of conservative values in China and

that like sort of patriarchal parental relationship that the government has with the people is celebrated in the film. But now that people are asking too many questions and a lot of Chinese people are aware of what's being talked about beyond the borders, despite heavy censorship, they just want to shut the whole conversation down. They probably don't want people to go see the movie now either,

just because that means generating more conversation around what people are talking about. You've written about how Mulan is really part of this much bigger picture of Disney's relationship with China. The original Mulan, released in 1998, was actually initially barred from China. And it was seen as retribution for a Disney film called Kundun, which was a celebration of the Dalai Lama. And Disney has worked really hard to get into the Chinese market since then. How crucial is the Chinese market to this company? Multiple Disney CEOs and top executives since have stated that China is extremely important to the company. They have two theme parks in China, as well as hundreds of trademark partnerships with local brands selling everything from lunchboxes

to tennis shoes. They cannot afford to lose China without having to probably renegotiate their finances. And what could this controversy mean for the future of co-productions between the U.S. and China? It's hard to say what is going to happen, except Disney, at the very least, will have learned a lesson that doing everything the Chinese government wants may not pay off for them in the end because as I said earlier I think this kind of controversy is unavoidable and if the Chinese government shuts everything down every time there is controversy then there's no point for Disney to lend its halo to the Chinese government in legitimizing their actions. It's only a worthwhile investment if they know that there's going to be

some kind of return. Exactly. And I don't think that the return that they were hoping for was ever going to happen. what do you think the cost is to society to culture when we see more and more companies like disney working so hard to please the chinese regime well first of all that's they're damaging their own master brand but probably not doing huge damage because it is, like, especially for Disney, they're such a beloved brand. What happened with Mulan is a lesson for Disney and for other brands as well, that if you get too greedy and you try to basically profit off of legitimizing human rights violations, it's eventually going to catch up to you and people are going to notice. So losing millions of dollars on Mulan, I think, is something that Disney, as well as other brands, will not soon forget.

You know, we started off by talking about how much the story of Mulan means to you personally. How does it feel to you to see it so politicized and so caught up in this controversy now? Well, it's deeply saddening to me. But at the same time, Mulan is a story. It's a framework, I suppose, that's been expanded on many, many times on TV, in operas, in plays, in graphic novels. I don't think the story itself is damaged. I think there are still millions of people like myself that, you know, love the origin, where it comes from. While it's a huge shame, I think there will be other tellings of Mulan to come. The ballot has already survived hundreds of years. It'll survive this controversy too.

For sure. Frankie, thank you so much for speaking with me. Thanks for having me. According to data from China's largest online ticketing platform, Mulan is expected to be shown on more than 40% of China's theaters starting today. Analysts predict a weak performance due to piracy and negative reviews. As of Thursday afternoon, it had sold over $1 million US worth of tickets. For reference, that's less than one-sixth of the opening day profits for the movie Tenet in the country. That's all for today.

Front Burner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Allie Janes, and Shannon Higgins. Derek Vanderwyk, Mandy Sham, and Mac Cameron did our sound design. Our music is by Joseph Shabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producers of FrontBurner this week were Elaine Chao and Nick McCabe-Locos. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner.