Front Burner - Netanyahu in Washington, and a Gaza ceasefire?

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington this week, meeting with Donald Trump and senior members of the Trump administration, in a trip that could end in a Gaza ceasefire agreement expected to last 60 days. The critical questions revolve around Hamas’ attitude toward the repatriation of the remaining 50 Israeli hostages in their custody, and Israel’s hesitancy to agree to a deal that involves a permanent peace. Our guest is Meron Rapoport, a 35-year veteran of the Israeli news industry and was formerly the head of news at Israel's Ha’aretz newspaper. Today, he works as an editor at Local Call, a Hebrew language news organization operating in Israel.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

There are over 613,000 Canadian small businesses on TikTok. Businesses that added $1.4 billion to Canada's GDP in 2024. Like Edison Motors in Golden, BC, whose electric hybrid vehicles are driving innovation in Canada's trucking industry. Or XXL Scrunchie in Belleville, Ontario, who turned extra-large scrunchies into extra large economic impact. Visit TikTokCanada.ca to learn more about how TikTok is helping small businesses in Canada make a big impact. This is a CBC podcast. Hi everyone. I'm Jamie Plesson. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington this week meeting with US President Donald Trump and senior members of the administration. Netanyahu's visit brings hopes for a potential 60-day ceasefire in Gaza after months of killings

of Palestinians at aid sites run by the Israeli and US-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Estimates vary, but many, many hundreds have been killed. The visit also created a venue for Netanyahu to… …present to you, Mr. President, the letter I sent to the Nobel Prize Committee. It's nominating you for the Peace Prize, which is well deserved. And you should get it. In case that wasn't clear, for Netanyahu to tell Trump he'd written the Nobel Committee

to nominate him for a Peace Prize. What peace? Will a ceasefire happen? That's what we're going to talk about today with Mehran Rapoport. He's been on the show a number of times before. He's a 35-year veteran of the Israeli news industry and was formerly the head of news at Israel's Haaretz newspaper. Today, he works as an editor at Local Call, a Hebrew language news organization operating in Israel.

Mehron, thank you so much for coming on to the show. Thank you. It's always great to speak with you. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington this week meeting with Trump and US lawmakers. Trump is reportedly weighing whether to pursue a nuclear deal with Iran and of course, on the table is a prospective 60 day ceasefire agreement that

would see the release of dozens of Israeli hostages both alive and dead. The withdrawal of Israeli forces from parts of Gaza and the entry of, quote, sufficient aid into the Gaza Strip. What have you made of Netanyahu's trip to Washington and this new prospective ceasefire agreement that is currently on the table? It's really difficult to say, and we are in, um,

as we speak, we don't know. I don't know the result of the meeting with Trump. I would say that Netanyahu, I think after the war on Iran, that was described as a success in Israel and by Trump himself, although I have a little bit of doubt about this definition, but yet in the Israeli public it was perceived as a success. I think Netanyahu sees now an opportunity for him to end the war and go for a ceasefire, even with the definitive end to the war,

and go to an early election with in hand the supposed victory on Iran and the hostages at home. I think this is for him a unique opportunity. He is trailing in the polls despite the success in Iran. I think this is a moment the Israeli public is very, very tired from the war. The attention that was, you know, this republic was distracted during the 12 days war with Iran, Gaza. Now the attention is again on Gaza. Soldiers are being killed almost daily in Gaza.

The goal seems very not clear. Most Israelis don't understand what we are doing there. Even right-wing opposition leaders are saying that soldiers are killed for nothing. Of course, the international pressure is growing, seeing the Israeli crimes in Gaza, especially what's going on around aid centers run by Israel and the US. So I So, I think he sees an opportunity to end the war there, but I'm not sure that he will. I'm not sure that he can that an end to the war in Gaza means in some may lead, I think he is afraid that it may lead to some form of a beginning of negotiations on more agreement with the Palestinians. The issue of negotiating a Palestinian state or Palestinian key or something like this will be very much on the table once the war is over.

And the only way to prevent it is to continue the war. So I think Netanyahu does not want a Palestinian state. It's against his belief. He came into politics 30 years ago in order to prevent a Palestinian state. That's his legacy in politics. So I think in politics. So I think this is the pressure from within and his own legacy, I think, stands in the way of him agreeing to a ceasefire. This prime minister is way too committed on the Iran issue. It's almost messianic for him, and he's going to want to fight. So there is a real opening there for some continuing tensions over this

deal. But at the same time, as I said, there are political considerations for him to agree for that. And there may be a pressure from Trump, although I'm not that convinced that Trump will pressure Netanyahu in a way that he will tell him, either you accept it or I will have, there will be consequences if you don't agree. I don't see Trump doing that. If Netanyahu were to agree to a deal, let's say this week, what kind of terms do you think he would accept? Netanyahu still insists on a phased deal, meaning that in the first phase, it will be a 60-days ceasefire, during

which eight live hostages will be released in the first days of the ceasefire and other two live prisoners, hostages will be released on the 50s, after 50 days. And during that period, bodies of dead hostages will be released also. And then during that period, this 60 days period, there will be a negotiation on the final agreement. So this is what is on the table now. This also is not very easy because Hamas wants that Israel will withdraw to the lines before the ceasefire in January, meaning go out of the areas it took since March, especially in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, in Rafah, in what is called the Morag Corridor, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. They want Israel to withdraw to the lines before the beginning of March. It wants the aid to flow again through the UN and not through this monstrous arrangement which the Americans and the Israelis have established with Gaza

aid centers. So these are big obstacles. I think Netanyahu will not, it will not be easy for Netanyahu even to accept these terms. But let's say there will be some compromise here because I think Hamas wants a deal, wants a ceasefire in order to have some relief of the people in Gaza and there's a huge pressure from the people in Gaza on Hamas to agree to a 60-day ceasefire. As for a final agreement, I think Netanyahu will have to give up the idea of forced expulsion of immigration of the Palestinian, the idea of what is called the Tramber Plan, although Trump denounced it. I think for the moment he demands that Hamas will completely his arm. This is a condition that is not meant to be agreed upon. If Netanyahu insisted on it, it means that he doesn't want an end to the war because Hamas will not accept a

deal like this. There is a lot of criticism from the families of the hostages that are talking about what they're calling the act here in the Hebrew. They're talking about people will be selected, the 10 that will be released now will live, and the 10 that will stay in Gaza, the 10 hostages, will be more or less doomed to death if the war will resume in two months' time. So there is a lot of pressure on him to agree and maybe he can sell it to the public and say, okay, I want to very run, Hamas is destroyed, the cities in Gaza do not exist anymore, there's no more Rafah, there's no more Khajunes, a large part of Gaza city are destroyed. But again, as I told you, I think the two elements that go against it are the pressure from his right-wing government that sees a once in a hundred years

opportunity to finish totally the Palestinian issue in Gaza. They think that this will not return, an opportunity like that will not return, to have just all of Gaza destroyed and all its people deported. They think it's a once in a lifetime chance. What do you think he's ultimately trying to accomplish in Washington this week with his meeting with Trump, but also with all of these other US officials. I think he wants Trump to help him pressure Hamas to agree now to the terms that he wants, meaning for example, aid will not be resumed fully,

at least not in the way it was during the ceasefire that it went by the UN agencies. He wants Trump to pressure Hamas to agree that Israel will not withdraw completely from what it gained since March 25, he wants the picture of him standing with Trump saying, we crushed Iran. This is very, very important for him internally. I think that the results of this war are dubious at the best, but for the Israeli public, if they will see Netanyahu and Trump standing together in the White House saying, we crushed Iran, Iran has no nuclear capability, the nuclear program is delayed in at least 10 years and things like that, it will help him

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Right on! When debts got you, you've got us. Give Credit Counseling Society a call today. Visit NoMoreDebts.org. Now I'm hoping that we can focus the remainder of this conversation on the suffering in Gaza and on what I believe you called a monstrous system, the takeover of aid distribution in the territory. Reporting published by Haaretz last month and later supported by the Associated Press has given us previously unprecedented access into the takeover of that distribution via a project

whose origins have been rooted in mystery. All we really know is that it was set up in coordination with both Israel and a collection of US evangelicals and private security contractors. They are also reported to be working alongside Palestinian militias like the Abu Shabaab militia. The aid scheme is overseen by American mercenaries, reported to be paid more than $1,000 U.S. per day. Since its creation, the food program has been incredibly controversial. There has been what feels like a permanent state of violence. I've seen reporting recently putting the death toll

of Palestinians between 400 and 700 people killed in just two months. Recently more than 160 NGOs have called for its end. Gaza is one of the worst hunger crises in the world. Can you tell me more about some of the takeaways that you have around this food program? I think the idea was to push the Palestinians in Gaza into the southern parts of the strip, preparing them for some kind of concentration camp, I don't have another word for that,

concentration camp, I don't have another word for that, in order to prepare for the forceful immigration of Palestinians afterwards. The idea was that there will be these distribution centers in the South, that people will have to go South in order to take this aid and they will be forced to stay there. This did not happen. This did not happen. It was a total mess. They're just leaving the aid, very small amount, not sufficient, just leaving the aid and run away, and people are just storming these places, taking whatever they can and go back to where they are.

So the idea of using these centers in order to concentrate the Palestinian in the southern part did not work. At the same time, what happened is that as there is total mass and total nothing is under control there and it is just like a hunger game, These centers are placed where the army controls, so the army is firing on these people that are waiting in line or trying to get this food. There has been reported more than 750 months, not mistaken, Palestinian killed by the army who, according to the soldiers that talk to Haaretz, but also with other newspapers, the soldiers are saying that they direct the Palestinian to these centers by fire, by using fire, either machine guns or even tanks.

So they tell them where to go with fire. They don't talk to them. They just fire them, hoping that they will know where to go. This has really created years old, father of two small girls. He was killed like this. He just went to bring her flour meat to his family and he was shot and killed. So, this is a total failure both from what the Israelis wanted to achieve and certainly from the point of view of, let's say, public relation or moral point of view. It's a total failure.

Therefore, now in Israel, they're talking openly today. The Minister of Defense, Israel Katz, said that his plan is that during the ceasefire, I don't know how it will be done, during the ceasefire Israel will push 600,000 Palestinians Israel pushed 600,000 Palestinians into the south of the Morag corridor, where a city named Rafah used to stand. So the plan is to push 600,000 Palestinians into the ruins of what used to be Rafah and do checks before they come in that they don't carry weapons or that they don't belong to Hamas and they will not be able to leave. Once they are in this camp, they cannot leave.

This is of course 100% similar to the concentration camps in World War II. This is the idea to concentrate people. It's not extermination yet, but it's concentration. I am not sure that this is feasible. I'm not sure that the Palestinian will go. I'm not sure that the Palestinian will go. I'm not sure that the army will obey. The army, there was in the Supreme Court, there was a motion against this act. And the chief of staff, Ayyal Zameer, told the Supreme Court that there is no plan to move and concentrate the Palestinians

in Gaza, so it's not very clear how it will be done. But the failure of the American aid centers, the failure leads, according to Israel CAHTS, to build a real concentration camp, a permanent one. Music There's been reporting this week that the GHF, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, has been linked to planning these civilian camps, right? According to the Financial Times, the Boston Consulting Group, one of the most prestigious firms in the world, helped model scenarios for voluntary relocation of, I think, half a million Gazans, right?

Estimating that three quarters of them would never return, right? So, I mean, that kind of goes against the statement that there is no plan, right? The Minister of Defense, Israel Katz, said that there is such a plan and this is the official plan of Israel and that this plan was approved by the Israeli government. There are literature reports, I think Reuters or other news organizations have seen a plan to relocate half a million Palestinians inside the Gaza Strip and outside the Gaza Strip, or comes of distribution on food and re-education. That's also the plan there.

Of course, these plans do not go along with the ceasefire, even a ceasefire of 60 days. I do not see how during a ceasefire of 60 days, half a million Palestinians will agree when there is no war and there's no threat of bombing that they will go voluntarily to live in the ruins of a city that does not exist anymore. I don't see how. So it may hint that Israel is not really serious about the ceasefire. All of these reports that have been coming out about this indiscriminate violence at the aid centers. I just wanna read one scene in particular from the AP. Quote, in a video, what appear to be heavily armed

American security contractors at one of the sites in Gaza discuss how to disperse Palestinians nearby. One is heard saying he has arranged for a show of force by Israeli tanks. Quote, I don't want this to be too aggressive, he adds, because this is calming down. At that What is the reaction to this information coming to light in Israel? Is there internal debate in Israel among soldiers? It does seem that the army is not one block. There are very, especially in the regular army, the soldiers are very right-wing. That was seen in the last elections, and their commanders, many of their commanders, at least middle-rank commanders, officers, come from the settlements. So they are very, very aggressive and really believe that the destruction of Gaza is the act of God.

So there are these soldiers and there are enough of them to do it. At the same time, for the first time since the beginning of the war, since October 7th, in the last few weeks, we are hearing a lot of soldiers in growing numbers talking to the press, usually, of course, anonymously because they serve in the army, but sometimes even with their names, but mostly anonymously, are talking about it and saying that this is unacceptable, that they cannot live with it, that this goes against everything they believe in. So there are some moral questions. And again, more than that, there is even a wider understanding or wider support for the claim that Israel has no goals in Gaza, that the army is going nowhere, that the soldiers are being killed for nothing, that the bombing are achieving nothing, that

Hamas is still there. So this is quite widespread. If I heard today, a Victor Lieberman, yes, he's in the opposition, but he's very right-wing. He used to be Minister of Defense, Minister of Treasure, and a long time part of Netanyahu now is quarreling with him, but he's really right-wing, saying that the soldiers that were killed lately, there were almost 25 I think soldiers killed since the Israeli broke ceasefire. These soldiers were killed for nothing, only for the political aims of goals of Netanyahu. This is a very heavy thing to say, to claim for a right wing that soldiers are killed for nothing. So the feeling that the war is going nowhere

and has no goals and that really the full occupation of Gaza is not a real goal, I think widespread, but also there are moral discussions much more still. I cannot measure how many Israelis feel like that, that what we are doing is morally wrong, but the voices are being heard for the first time on many, on all media, not only in where I work, Local Call 972, in Haaretz, but also in mainstream media, Yedi Otho Hono, the largest circulation newspaper, Channel 12. So, these voices are heard. And yes, I think not a few Israelis look at what is happening and saying that we are going into hell. We are going into hell and we are repeating the worst war crimes since World War II. Okay.

Mehran, I want to thank you very much for this. Thank you.