Front Burner - New Green Party Leader Annamie Paul's vision for Canada

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

Annamie Paul, a Toronto-based human rights lawyer, was on Saturday elected leader of the Green Party of Canada — becoming the first elected Black leader of a major federal party. She takes over from Elizabeth May, who stepped down last year, after 14 years as leader. In her victory speech, Paul talked about how she believes the party is the one that Canadians need to guide them through, "the challenges of this time." Today on Front Burner, Paul on why that is, and how the Green Party plans to differentiate itself.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Can you hear me? I can hear you. That's Annamie Paul, the new leader of the Green Party of Canada.

Have you managed to catch your breath yet? No, no. No, I have not. I'm definitely riding the wave. She was elected on Saturday and it's been pretty much non-stop interviews since. It's a chance to have a new conversation with people. And I have no illusions that it's going to be like this a week from today. non-stop interviews since. It's a chance to have a new conversation with people and I have no illusions that it's going to be like this a week from today. Annamie Paul is a Toronto-based human rights lawyer. She takes over from Elizabeth May,

who stepped down last year after 14 years as leader. Today, we talk about her vision for the Green Party and the country, and what sets it apart. I'm Josh Bloch. This is FrontBurner. Hello, Annamie. Thank you for joining us on our show. It is such a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. And congratulations on winning this leadership bid. Oh, thank you. It was a nail biter. There's been a lot of media attention that's focused on just how groundbreaking you are as a politician.

You're the first elected black leader of a major federal party. You're the second Jewish leader. What does that mean to you? The first thing that strikes me in all of that, whenever I hear it all listed, which is that one person should not embody so many firsts in Canadian politics, especially because we have such tremendous diversity

within our country, especially because we pride ourselves on being an inclusive society. And so, you know, on the one hand, I'm so proud to have opened those doors for all of the other people that are definitely going to walk through them. On the other hand, I think it's very late in the day for that to have happened. that too have happened. And it's a moment for us to really, you know, think again about what it's going to take to create a truly inclusive society and an inclusive political class in our country. Well, this issue of representation in politics is something that you have been advocating for for a long time. You founded the Canadian Centre for Political Leadership back in 2001,

which worked on trying to improve diversity in political representation. Exactly. Absolutely. It just always struck me as someone, I'm a first generation Canadian. And, you know, I was surrounded growing up in Toronto with all these other extraordinary first generation Canadians from all these diverse backgrounds. And it always struck me as such a tremendous waste that they weren't involved in public policy, that they weren't being included in the big decisions about our country, that they weren't running for office. And so this was the first organization, Institute of its Kind, focused on how do we tap into all of that talent? How do we make it accessible for them to be involved in public policy in this country?

Well, I know that you faced racism and anti-Semitism during your bid to lead the Green Party. Annamie Paul was called a derogatory term for Black people by someone watching the town hall. The slurs were sent via the virtual meetings chat box. Even from within your own party. As popular as she's been with many Green supporters, others, she says, have attacked her for being Jewish. What did that tell you about the challenges of entering politics, of vying for political leadership as a woman of colour?

It's brutal. You know, this is real talk. I'm going to just say it as plainly as that, because I do want women of color, I do want people from marginalized groups who are considering this, but just to know what they're getting into and have their eyes wide open. It is brutal. It's a blood sport. And it is something that immediately exposes you to just a very intense level. It's not the scrutiny. It's really the criticism aimed at your identities. And social media has made that so much worse. And so you have to be aware of that. You have to be equipped with the supports you need in order to weather that. And if you're strong enough and if you have that support, then I still encourage people back for a moment. I mean, as you mentioned, you're the daughter of Caribbean immigrants. And I've heard you talk about your mom in particular.

And I'm curious to know about the role that she played for you with regards to getting engaged in politics in the first place. Very much so. I wrote about that when I was trying to introduce myself to members. I wrote about my mother and her influence and my grandmother as well. They came from a very, very small island of about nine, 10,000 people where you really learn to count on your neighbors and you really understand from the beginning that you've got to work together to get anything done. And so those are the values that I have. And my mother was a teacher and a union member, and that meant a lot to her.

You know, she said it meant that no one could mess with her, which I loved. And so, you know, those ideas of positive collective action were there from the very beginning. And she made sure that she would take us to rallies and strikes and everything else. You know, she wanted us to be exposed to that and to understand why it was important. And clearly, you know, you caught the political bug from a young age. You have spoken about how your mom keeps this picture of you as a 12-year-old page in the Ontario legislature. Yes, you know, that was not so much the political bug as I definitely understood, thanks to my mother's influence in particular, why public policy was important and the role that organized politics could play in making good things happen.

And so I was always interested in it, not necessarily as someone who was going to run, but certainly as someone who appreciated the process and wanted to know more about it. You know, we did a story this morning that was absolutely heartbreaking, looking at the ways that many long-term care facilities in Ontario are still not prepared for COVID. And in your victory speech, you shared something very personal about the death of your father, who was living in a long-term care home. He died from the neglect that has caused thousands of people to die in our long-term care facilities. He died of an avoidable infection. And on the day that he died, my sister called me in tears and she said to me, we have got to do better than this, Annamie. We have got to know what a life is worth.

Can you tell me a bit more about him? got to know what a life is worth. Can you tell me a bit more about him? Yes, you know, this is, I would like to say that this story is unique, but it really isn't at all. There have been thousands of deaths this way across Canada, particularly in Ontario and Quebec, and it is just a national scandal. There are a lot of people who, particularly in long-term care homes, who are not getting the care that they need because their family members do not have access to them due to the pandemic. And where the homes they're staying in are woefully understaffed. And so things that normally wouldn't slip by, things like a catheter that's being put in incorrectly, or a resident that

isn't eating properly, you know, or drinking enough water. These things now are slipping by because loved ones aren't there. And so people are dying. There is a great reckoning that is going to be had, I certainly hope, on behalf of all of those who have been lost this way. Well, you just announced that the Green Party will not be supporting the Liberal government's throne speech, where they committed to spending billions of dollars on a whole slate of government programs. But one of the issues that you cited was that they're not doing enough to address this issue of long-term care facilities.

Tell me a bit more about why your party is taking this position on this issue and more generally. We all know that there are people that have died and will die unless we take urgent action to protect them in our long-term care facilities. We know that we need systemic and structural change and that it can't wait. We have all the information that we need.

And instead of saying that we are going to take care of this tomorrow, which is really what should happen, we're going to work with the provinces to do that. There was just talk of implementing eventually some national standards. That's not the kind of leadership that we need on such an urgent issue. And what does it actually mean moving forward to say that the Green Party is not supporting the Liberals' throne speech? Well, again, you know, we're a caucus of three and we, certainly me, I have no delusions of grandeur. You know, I understand that the government isn't going to rise or fall, depending on whether we support the throne speech or not. But it's very important for

people in Canada to know where we stand on that speech, where we stand on these issues. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years.

I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I want to ask you a bit more about the direction of the

Green Party under your leadership. I mean, you won this leadership contest on the eighth ballot. You beat out Dimitri Lascaris by just over 2,000 votes. And he's a self-described eco-socialist. Every single member of society has a reasonable opportunity to achieve his, her, or their potential. And that means having the basic necessities of life guaranteed to them, housing, education, health care, food, and and security and access to information that they need in order to exercise their political rights. You've been described as having a more centrist vision for the party. And I wonder if you see that as a fair description. I said toward the end, you know, I am someone who because I'm a green, you know, and a good green, I hope I tried to be cooperative and collaborative. And I'm really not at all seeking a confrontational

style of politics. I really think that everyone loses out with that. So I really resisted talking about this. But a certain time, at a certain point, I got frustrated. And I just said, look, you know, as a woman of color in this world, I am very accustomed to being defined by others and having my agency taken away from me, but I'm perfectly capable of speaking for myself and defining myself. And so with all due respect, if I could be allowed to do that. In terms of the Green Party, I joined the Green Party. I'm leading the Green Party, I joined the Green Party. I'm leading the Green Party

because I am absolutely convinced that it is the most progressive party in Canadian politics and has the most progressive policies, period. And so, you know, in terms of being on the most progressive side of politics, I don't even know what that term centrist means in that context.

So I'm very comfortable with our policies that our members have approved and developed. We're going to have a policy convention next year. It's going to be great. And I will be proud, I'm sure, to represent those policies as well, because I know they're going to be the most progressive policies. We know, of course, one of the or the central issue for the Green Party is around climate change. And that's something that has obviously is a huge concern to Canadians, certainly pre-pandemic. But we've seen obviously a shift in that during the pandemic, you know, as people are concerned with health issues and with economic issues. How would you like to see the Green Party pushing this issue back into the spotlight, given everything else that's going on right now? Well, you know, as someone, as you said,

that has lost a lot themselves during this period, I'm extremely aware and sensitive to the needs of Canadians in this moment, the urgent concerns that they have. We know that there's been a spike, a significant and very serious spike in opioid deaths during this period. Because, you know, during the period of the pandemic, we know a lot of people have lost their work and so on. And so I'm very aware of all of that. At the same time, and I would say most, you know say most importantly, we still have to remember that the climate emergency has not gone away. And so, again, when we look to the speech from the throne, what I wanted to hear was the government say, we know that you are preoccupied with these urgent things, but don't worry, we got this under control. You know, while this is going on,

and while you're focused on other things, we are going to help you and at the same time, make sure that we are not forgetting about this urgent crisis. And that's what leadership looks like. And I think Canadians would have really responded to that. I think actually, they were waiting to hear that from the government. Hmm. Another issue you've talked about is the need to address systemic racism in policing and policing and beyond. What kinds of conversations and actions are you hoping to start around this issue? yesterday when Paul Manley, our MP from Nanaimo, Lady Smith, presented the petition that we had launched during our campaign. This one is about Emancipation Day, you know, having it recognized as a national holiday. But the reason that I mentioned it is that, you know, we have such a

tremendous amount of work still left to do in Canada to reconcile and address our legacy of colonialism. Part of that begins by recognizing that we did have slavery in this country and the legacy that that has produced for Indigenous peoples and Black Canadians. And so, you know, first we have to understand our history and what it has caused. And then we have to begin to dismantle that legacy. And so we talked in our campaign about dismantling systemic racism across systems, but particularly in the criminal justice system as an urgent need. We need to have more oversight, civilian oversight of policing. We need to have a national database that has disaggregated data

so that we understand the scale of the issue and we need to be seeking to reduce policing budgets so that we can redirect those funds towards the social services that we need to create in order to make sure that we have safer communities. I've seen that you've called the Green Party the party for the moment, but it seems like there's a lot of challenges in terms of making that a reality. And I think it would be fair to say that the growth of the Green Party has been slow. I mean, I know provincially the Green Party has made big strides in BC and New Brunswick specifically, but the success of the federal Green Party has been a bit more incremental. It was founded in 1983. You currently have three seats

in parliament. But am I framing the question wrong? Or is there another way to see this? I mean, do you see the potential for the party to have political power or influence beyond just the number of seats that you hold in parliament? Absolutely, absolutely. Just first to be clear, we are seeking, we are a political party, we want more seats in parliament, we're going to continue to seek more seats in parliament. You know, every election that happens, we want to have more Greens elected, because I am very clear that, you know, good things happen when Greens get elected. But our impact, certainly, it extends beyond that. There's no question that without our Green caucus

or even Greens on the scene, that we wouldn't have had the climate emergency so high on the agenda, for instance. There's no question that having us speaking regularly about things like guaranteed livable income, universal pharmacare, a safe supply to combat the opioid epidemic. You know, these are things that had we not been speaking about them, they would never have entered the mainstream political discourse, you know, to the point that the Liberal caucus and the NDP have now adopted many of those policies. And we're also very collegial.

And so our caucus works with other parties across party lines on behalf of people. So our impact is outsized as compared to the size of our caucus. And every Green that gets elected has an exponential impact. Well, you're going to be vying for a seat yourself shortly. You have less than a month until an upcoming by-election to convince voters in the Toronto Centre riding that you should be their MP. And that's, of course, the Liberal stronghold that former Finance Minister Bill Morneau left. Both you and Elizabeth May have expressed your disappointment that you weren't extended a leader's courtesy, especially by the NDP, where they would elect not to run a candidate in that riding. Why are you making that request?

So I have not made that request. And I challenge anyone to find the tape of me making that request or even expressing that disappointment. I did not expect them to make that request. But Elizabeth May was very clear about that disappointment. I did not expect them to make that request. But Elizabeth May was very clear about her disappointment. So I'd like Jagmeet Singh to think about it. I'd like New Democrats to reach out to him

and say how classy is it to try to block the entry to the House of Commons of the first black woman leader of a federal political party? She was, but let's not conflate us. Sure. I mean, we don't even look alike so um so uh you know and the gate this is it's it's it's uh it's something i i welcome the challenge of reminding uh people in canada that it is possible within a party a political party to have a a variety of views you know know, we were based on a model of, we were based on a representative model that actually is supposed to permit that diversity

of views. And yet we've become so accustomed to the hyper part, sorry, the hyper concentration of power in the leader of a party that we forget that it is possible to have different views within the same party i understand why elizabeth feels so frustrated because elizabeth was a leader at that time um she chose not she but the party chose to extend that courtesy i understand her frustration i did not expect that um because i i knew that the ndp were not going to do it. And so we are prepared to run under, you know, with a full slate of candidates from the other parties. I'm certainly not going to be asking for that. We're good to go. Annamie, it's very interesting to speak with you and congratulations again. Oh, thank you so much for the invitation. I really enjoyed this discussion.

Before we go today, a story to update you on. On Tuesday, Quebec Premier Francois Legault apologized to Joyce Echaquan's family at the National Assembly following a moment of silence. Echaquan was the Atikamekw woman who died last week at a hospital in Joliet. Shortly before dying, she filmed staff making racist and degrading comments at her. Protests across Quebec followed,

bringing attention to the systemic racism faced by Indigenous people in Canada's healthcare system. Several investigations are now underway, including a public inquiry launched by Quebec's coroner's office. That's all for today. Thank you for listening to FrontBurner. a front burner.