Front Burner - N.S. mass shooting hearings are over, questions remain

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

The public hearings into the deadliest mass shooting in Canadian history end today. Since February, the Mass Casualty Commission has heard evidence about the gunman and the warning signs reported to the RCMP in the years leading up to April 18, 2020, when he went on a rampage, killing 22 people in Nova Scotia while disguised as a Mountie. The inquiry has encountered multiple delays and controversies, leaving some victims’ family members to say they now have more questions than answers. Today, CBC Nova Scotia's investigative reporter, Angela McIvor, takes us through what the commission hearings have revealed and what questions remain.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson, and before we get started today, a caution. This episode contains details of violence, abuse, and sexual assault. I'm here because on April 18th, 2020, my brother Aaron, sister-in-law Jolene, and niece Emily were murdered. And after more than two years and millions of dollars spent on this

inquiry, I have more questions than answers. This is Tara Long speaking to the Mass Casualty Commission in Nova Scotia earlier this week. Since February, the commission has led an inquiry into the deadliest mass shooting in Canadian history, where a gunman killed 22 people. mass shooting in Canadian history, where a gunman killed 22 people. But today is the final day of public hearings. We have all patiently waited and listened to see when and how this process was going to provide us with answers. And we are still waiting. Time has run out. You've probably heard a lot about what happened in those 13 hours in which Gabriel Wartman rampaged dressed as an RCMP officer, complete with a replica cruiser. But the inquiry has brought us new details. We have a much clearer and more disturbing picture of who the gunman was and a better sense of the warning signs and close encounters the RCMP had with him before the killings.

So today, I'm joined by CBC Nova Scotia investigative reporter Angela McIver, who's followed every step of the commission hearings. We're going to zoom out and go over what we've learned about both the gunman and the police response, and why family members still have so many questions. response, and why family members still have so many questions. Hi, Angela. Thank you so much for making the time today. Hey, Jamie. Happy to be here. So we learned a lot more about the gunman at this inquiry, his violent past, history with guns,

and the way that he targeted people for his own sexual gratification, which we're going to get into. But I want to start with the testimony of his partner, Lisa Banfield, who says she managed to escape Wartman on the night of the attack and hide in the woods. In her testimony, what kind of person did Banfield describe him as? Yeah, Jamie, I mean, she was terrified of him. That was quite clear. You know, 19 years they were together. It was a very violent relationship right from the start. And she described how things were really bad in the early years. He beat her in front of people. He controlled every aspect of her life, essentially. And she talked about how he was an extreme alcoholic. And Jamie, in her first statements to police, she was obviously in shock as she talked about how he was an extreme alcoholic. And Jamie, in her first statements to police, she was obviously in shock as she talked about some of these things in detail.

But she also was sharing context at the time of why he acted a certain way and how she tried to deflect certain situations. And she seemed to be at the time, remember this was in the spring of 2020, she was still grieving his loss. I mean, that's how I read it. And she didn't seem to fully understand the magnitude of what happened. But when it came to her testimony this summer, it was clear by that point that, you know, she had two years of reflection and she was much more direct about how he treated her and how he often threatened her. If we had a fight, he put the bed to my head to scare me and said that he could blow off my head. So I was scared. I'm not going to, sorry, I'm not going to say anything.

And she said that other men knew what Wortman was doing to her and they were too going to say anything. And she said that other men knew what Wartman was doing to her, and they were too afraid to say anything. And so given that you were scared and that he had sometimes used those firearms to threaten you, why didn't you think of calling the police and asking them to come get those guns? I was scared of what he would do. And grown men knew that he had guns and what he did and they were scared of him. So what am I going to do? So these are the types of things we heard.

And also his own uncle, who was a former RCMP officer, he even told police in the days following the rampage how he always thought Gortman was capable of killing Lisa and his family, but he never imagined that he would take it this far. Wow. And just to be clear, you're saying other men witnessed him abuse her and didn't go to the police? Yeah, we heard accounts of how at least on a couple of different occasions, he had friends over or neighbors and they would just be outside, and he would be upstairs beating her, and the window was open, and they heard this. No one ever said anything. It's awful. Angela, what did we learn about Wartman's family history? Quite a bit, actually. Very disturbing. He watched his own father, Paul, as he was violent to his mother they lived in Moncton New Brunswick

and we heard through the inquiry how you know at one point his uncles were saying they told police how when Mortman was a toddler I think it was two and a half years old his father said oh this baby blanket that you have you shouldn't have this anymore And he took it and he lit it on fire in front of him. At one point, his father made him kill the family dog. His uncles have said that he was treated like an animal. And even Lisa Banfield has said in her statements how he told her that he didn't feel like his mother protected him from the abuse. And as a result, she had said, you know, he had no respect for women. He had no respect for his father. He just turned violent as a result.

Of course, we know what he did for a living. He was a denturist. But also in the inquiry, we learned more about how he operated that business and how he used it to target women in Nova Scotia, namely underprivileged women. And tell me things that we've been hearing whispers of, but it was actually just last week when we heard from the Avalon Sexual Assault Center that actually did surveys in the community and they did outreach work. And we now know through their work and through the women that they talked to, he apparently targeted specifically Black women who were sex workers. specifically, Black women who were sex workers. And what he would do, Jamie, from what we learned is that he would reach out to them and he would say, you know, look, I'm a denturist, you can come to my clinic, I will give you beautiful teeth, I can replace your teeth for a low cost. And hey, A, I take cash, but if you can't pay, then I'll also take sex repayment. And that's what he would do.

He would get them into his clinic. And if they got this work done, he would have them perform sexual favors for him in his clinic. And we also even heard one account of a man who lived near the dental clinic and he had work done and couldn't pay, I guess. And Wartman actually beat him outside of the clinic. And so that was another thing that we heard about as well. Okay. We've talked about on the show how Wartman created decals to add to a decommissioned cruiser to make his replica cop car. And reports from the commission say he likely got the RCMP uniform or pieces of it, right, from his uncle, a former Mountie. But did we learn about how Wartman caught the guns that were found in his possession?

And I guess the guns that he used in his murderous rampage. his murderous rampage. So yeah, we did learn and actually a colleague of mine, Elizabeth Millen and I went down to Holton, Maine, because we learned that that's where he got three of the guns that he used in the rampage, one of them being the semi automatic rifle, and two other handguns that he had equipped with, you know, a laser and other things that made them illegal. with, you know, a laser and other things that made them illegal. And so this is a town just on the cusp of the main border. And he was friends with an older man who he would stay with. And this man, his name is Sean Conlog, gave him two of the handguns. Wartman came there frequently, he would do odd jobs around his house for him in his yard. And so he gave him at least one of the guns as a gift. And he says the other one disappeared and Wartman took it.

We're not sure exactly what happened there because, Jamie, the thing that happened through this inquiry is that while the Mass Casualty Commission has subpoenaed all these people, they don't have the power to actually subpoena across the U.S. border. So there was Sean Conlog, there was another man who actually took Wartman to a gun show in Holton the year before the mass shooting and bought a gun for him. This was the semi-automatic rifle. And so these were two people who knowingly supplied him with illegal weapons. They're not illegal in the US, but they are legal in Canada and they are legal to take across the border. And that is a crime in the United States, but he was never charged there. Okay. Do we know at all how he got them across the border? Yeah. So what we learned about how he took the weapons across is that he had a pickup truck.

And what he would do, Lisa Banfield described this, and people who lived in Holton also described this in statements to police, that he would roll up the tonneau cover of his truck. So this is the cover that went over the bed of his truck. And he would roll it up, and he would slide the weapons in there. And then he would roll it back up so that when he went across the border,

they wouldn't think to look there. And he brag about oh they'll never look here we also know that he had a nexus pass and that made him a low risk traveler essentially okay i also want to ask you about his finances the commission said that he had about two2 million in assets, which is a lot. And what do we know about how he got those assets? So he did have lots of money, that is obvious. The pictures that we saw, I mean, we keep talking about this cottage in Portapique. It was not a cottage, it was a log mansion. And what we learned this summer is that he wasn't reporting his finances truthfully. He was reporting less than $40,000 as his income each year to CRA. He took a lot of cash payments and he was obviously skirting the system in other ways. But we also heard accounts, you know, allegations that he would smuggle other things

across the border. When he was in university back in the 80s, he actually paid his way through university by smuggling tobacco across the border. And many people have mentioned, you know, did he do drugs? And Jamie, we haven't seen any proof of that. I mean, people have been speculating this, but we do know that he seemed to be attracted to shady deals. And we even saw references to an immigration scheme that he was plotting with a lawyer in Ontario. They were emailing back and forth about how they were going to basically provide a fake job for an immigrant, which is something that we've reported about in the past at CBC. And Wortman actually found a CBC article and emailed his friend and said, wait up, the media is onto this scheme. Maybe we shouldn't proceed with this. And

they decided not to, but these are the, these are the types told us about the police, in particular, what they knew about Wartman in the decades before these shootings happened. And so tell me about what happened in 2011. Yeah. So in that case, it was actually an anonymous tip that went to a police officer in Truro. And the threat there was that Wartman allegedly wanted to kill a cop. And so that got the attention of the officer in Truro, obviously. And it was serious enough that he created a bulletin that was circulated among Nova Scotia police forces. And we know from an officer at Halifax Regional Police who spoke to the inquiry, and he took notes at the time that he engaged with the RCMP. He contacted them. He had reached out to them because Wartman was in RCMP jurisdiction. And we're not really

sure what happened after that, or if it was actually investigated, Jamie, because we've been told by RCMP that they purged their records after two years. And so they didn't have this bulletin on file in 2020. But neighboring police forces did still have it on file. I don't know what was done or what wasn't done at the time. The RCMP says these bulletins are purged after two years. But on the second day of the shooting, another municipal force was able to dig up the bulletin and shared it with the RCMP that day. The Mounties insist they didn't have it as they responded to the rampage. And the only reason why this bulletin came to light is because we filed a

Freedom of Information request and it was actually the Amherst police force that still had the document on file. But I want to go slightly further back with you now to the year 2010, when the RCMP received a call with a complaint about Wartman. And who made that call? Yes, we know that that came from a family member who, you know, was talking with Wartman and that he was drunk and he had threatened, allegedly, to harm his father in New Brunswick. And so that call originally went to RCMP in New Brunswick. It was then punted over to Halifax Regional Police, and they started to investigate the file. And as they got into it, they realized that it appeared that the weapons that he allegedly possessed

were actually at his Portapique residence, which is in RCMP territory. So the Halifax Regional Police Officer who was investigating the file, and he took many notes. So we've read those as they've been released through the inquiry. He reached out to an officer by the name of Constable Greg Wiley. And they spoke because Wiley actually said, hey, I know this guy, Wartman, according to the Halifax Regional Police Officer, guy, Wartman, according to the Halifax Regional Police Officer. I'll go check this out. And it turns out that Wiley did in fact have a relationship with Wartman. He originally met him in 2007 or 2008 and thought he was such a great guy that he wanted to have him as a community contact. And so he would frequently drop by. He said anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour.

Sometimes it would just be out of the driveway. Sometimes he would go inside and he would, you know, have a glass of soda or whatever. And they would chat. And he was just there to get kind of tips on local crime in the community. And he always thought that Wartman was pro-police and would help him out in situations. And Jamie, he estimates that over the years that he visited Wartman was pro-police and would help him out in situations. And Jamie, he estimates that over the years that he visited Wartman about 16 times he was there. And so this tip, according to the Halifax Regional Police Officer, was passed along to Wiley. And Wiley doesn't even remember it.

He took no notes of it. He said, oh said oh yeah i know him i'll go check that out but there's no record of what he actually did now when lisa banfield testified she confirmed yes wiley was there he came through the living room up into the master bedroom and gabriel had like a little musk musket kind of gun and he showed that. And then he showed him the gun above the fireplace that was filled with wax. So it was just for decoration. And he said, that's what I have. And that was that. So. So Angela, I've heard for a while, I mean, there's been all this speculation that Wortman was a police informant. And is that what this was? Is that what people are talking about when they say that? It appears to be. I mean, honestly, Jamie, the informant. And is that what this was? Is that what people are talking about when they say

that? It appears to be. I mean, honestly, Jamie, the informant theory still is persisting here in Nova Scotia. I mean, even people, you know, walk up to me and say, so he was an informant. And I can tell you from all of the evidence that I have read, all of the testimony I have heard, I have been following this from start to finish. I see no evidence that he was a legit police informant. I would say that this is the closest thing. A lot of people, 60 people, testified publicly in this inquiry. But why we and some RCMP officers were not cross-examined and what was the reasoning for not making his testimony public? Yeah, so we don't actually know. They didn't provide a reason other than it was accommodations

that they were making in the trauma-informed process. So we don't know because we don't have his personal health information. They wouldn't reveal that to us. And we were only given notice a few days before this actually happened. So we did get to watch the testimony as it was happening, but we weren't allowed to share the audio or the video of it. Over the course of other RCMP officers, most of them did testify and they were cross-examined. It was, I think, three in total plus Wiley who were granted accommodations. What officers didn't testify that families wanted to hear from? Yeah, so there were a few. There were particularly the frontline, some of the frontline officers who

were responding the night of the 18th and early on April 19th. And so these officers included Corporal Rodney Peterson, and he was an officer who was driving around and responding to different scenes. But at one point, he actually drove by the gunman at one point, and he noticed him. He told the commission that he did recognize him. And it took him a minute and he had to collect his thoughts. It took him, I think it was about a kilometer that he drove and then he turned around and he drove back. But that was a few minutes and he never did catch up with him. And the families have said, you know, those were minutes that we lost and minutes that he could have been caught. And it wasn't long after that, that two more women were killed in DeBert. And there were other frontline officers who responded, who were on the ground in Portapique

who were there doing containment. They heard the mixed messages. They heard the chaos on the radio. And the families really wanted to hear some of those officers testified as well. Okay. And in addition to the families and their frustration, I know the RCMP are also coming up against local police forces in Nova Scotia. And why? Why are the local police upset with the response to the killings from the RCMP? Yeah, this has been revealing over the last few weeks, especially. We've learned how on that initial day, on the morning of April 19th, that all of the municipal police forces across Nova Scotia, they reached out to the RCMP and they said, you know, what can we do? We have resources available. We're on standby.

Whatever you need, we have people ready to go. And they got no response. And so I think from what we've been reading and what we've been hearing from some of the municipal police chiefs is that they were put off by that. And then there was the whole issue of alert ready. If the police had to put the emergency alert out, I would have got it on my phone hiding in the woods and I would have known what was going on and it could have saved some more lives.

The RCMP did notify the public about the murderous rampage on Twitter. The force said it was in the midst of issuing an alert when the gunman was shot and killed. But that was well into Sunday morning, and only because emergency management officials reached out offering to trigger the alert. The RCMP said from the beginning that they didn't know that that was something that they could use. It was something that they didn't think was available to them in an active shooter situation. think was available to them in an active shooter situation. But municipal police chiefs have since spoke up to say, okay, well, no, we knew that it was an option that was available because we had meetings with provincial EMO officials who told us that this was an option and RCMP was at the table in these meetings. So that didn't go over well when they wouldn't back up RCMP.

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50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, You and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. We saw in the inquiry an RCMP superintendent's notes from a conference call with Brenda Luckey, RCMP Commissioner Brenda Luckey, 10 days after the shooting. And they said that she pushed to announce the makes and models of the shooter's guns. And we've covered this on the show, caused a bit of a political firestorm that she was, accusations that she was sort of meddling for political reasons, and even parliamentary hearings over whether liberal ministers pressured her to do this, to aid, quote, pending gun control legislation. But it turned out

there was a recording from that call at the center of this debate, right? And what happened? Yeah, so we learned just a couple of weeks ago, actually, a communications person at RCMP headquarters had recorded the call on the Ottawa end, and that this recording was in existence, but it has since been deleted. And so that was according to deputy commissioner brian brennan when he was on the stand he confirmed that our cmp learned about it this spring then they investigated it but it no longer appears to be available and so we're not sure what happened to that recording it's just like you know that it's just like gone it's just gone that's what

it appears to be and everyone is wondering why and can it be retrieved from the cloud? And are there any investigative techniques that can be done here to retrieve this recording that is to be continued? conversation, this long and incredibly expensive inquiry dragged up a lot of details that I'm sure families of victims are furious about. How do families feel about the inquiry itself? Do they feel like it adequately investigated what happened or that justice is done here? Because from some of what you said today, it feels like they had a lot more that they wanted to learn. Yeah, definitely many of the families did want more. We've talked to a few of them this week who said, yes, they've been frustrated by the process. The RCMP weren't talking and seemed to the Goulet family to be more concerned with closing ranks and protecting their own reputation than with properly caring for the community they were supposed to be serving and protecting. I'd like to be optimistic enough to say never happen

again. I don't think I'm there yet and that may not be realistic. A lot of them have not attended in person. You know it's been very few times that they've actually attended in person because they did, they just lost faith in the process. But many of them did show up this week because they feel there is significance now that it's coming to an end. Now that things are wrapping up. Me and other family members, I know we're, we're just, that's all we have left is hope because we've tried every other, every other avenue. We've bagged, we've pleaded, we've tried every other avenue. We've begged, we've pleaded, we've banged on the tables, we've multiple, multiple emails, pleaded, cried. That's all we've got left now is hope. It was their chance to put on the record some of the recommendations that they would like to see in the final report.

It was a chance for their lawyers to put all of their concerns on the table. And so we have heard a mix. Most of them, I would say the majority, they would like more of these interviews and the testimony to continue. But at the same time, they're exhaling because it is coming to an end and they can finally move on with their lives. And others, Jamie, we've heard through their lawyers this week, were actually grateful for the process and that the inquiry was able to dig into these issues and to get answers to the questions that they've had and that RCMP were not giving them answers to. And they feel that they otherwise wouldn't have received, you know, any of this information had it not been for the public inquiry. Okay. Angela, thank you for this

and for all your work on this and for following it so closely. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. That is all for this week. Front Burner was produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Derek Vanderwyk, Ali Janes, and Lauren Donnelly. Our sound design was by Matt Cameron and Sam McNulty. Our music is by Joseph Chabison. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next week. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.