Front Burner - Patrick Brown out, claims corruption in Tory leadership race

Episode Date: July 7, 2022

A scandal's brewing in the Conservative leadership race. Brampton Mayor Patrick Brown has been disqualified from the race over allegations that his campaign broke financing rules. But he's denying these claims, and accusing the party establishment of corruption in favour of rival candidate Pierre Poilievre. Today, Power & Politics host Vassy Kapelos on the latest in the increasingly messy race to lead the Conservative Party.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. A scandal is brewing in the conservative leadership race. Patrick Brown has been disqualified from running over allegations that he broke financing rules. But he's fighting back and accusing the party establishment of corruption. Today, I've got Vashie Capellos

here to catch us up on what's going on in the increasingly messy race to lead the Conservative Party of Canada. Oh, hey, Vashie. Oh, hey, Jamie. Great to have you. Great to have you. Great to be here. So I actually saw in the middle of the night when I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep and check Twitter that Patrick Brown was being kicked out of the conservative leadership race.

And I got to say, that is not what I expected to see in the middle of the night. I was pretty shocked. What's the official explanation that's been offered for why this is happening first of all you can tell we both have little kids because we were already asleep and then woke up and couldn't go back to sleep because i had the exact same experience at midnight i looked at my phone i'd missed like so many calls from his campaign from the party and i'm like oh my god what happened and i felt terrible that i had slept through that. Anyway, I digress. The official explanation as to why the party disqualified Patrick Brown is basically he did his campaign, did stuff that

broke election financing rules. That's like all they put out. They said there's wrongdoing. That's the only official line. Now, make some calls, as I did. And I found out that what they mean by that or what would be more specific about that is that a corporation basically paid some members of his staff to do work or paid people to do work on behalf of the campaign. That is not allowed by elections laws in this country. So potentially, if true, could be breaking those laws. But that's, you know, that's it. It's not about memberships. It's not about like a lot of the other back and forth stuff over the past few weeks. It's literally that sole allegation, which they say is really serious because it could amount to breaking the law. OK, and how did it work? Like who decided to

kick him out? How does how does that work? Okay. So here's what I was told what happened. Somebody brings these allegations. They call them a whistleblower to the party's attention. The party starts looking into it. I think they told me a few weeks ago. They determined this is more than just verbal accusations. The whistleblower brought paperwork to them that included like financial records. They look at all the evidence and they decide these are serious allegations. We're going to raise them with the Brown campaign. They did so last Wednesday. The party's rules stipulate that they then have to like send a formal letter with the allegations or with the concerns. They did that on Thursday, the party says. Patrick Brown's campaign responded to some

extent on Friday. And then basically the party says we gave him some time, what we thought was ample time, to bring his campaign in compliance with elections rules. We didn't feel he did that. 24 hours before the meeting that happened last night, that meeting was called. They all get together, the leadership organizing committee. They hold a vote on whether or not to disqualify him. It goes ahead 11 to 6. So it's not unanimous, but 11 to 6. And it's determined that he'll be disqualified and the press release goes out. So just to be clear here, they're saying that they gave him the opportunity to, like, fix it? Yes, that's exactly what they're saying.

And they're saying that they briefed him on, like, they gave him lots of information about what the allegations were and what they were contending. Patrick Brown does not see it that way. Listen, we had 1,800 volunteers working around the country. And we told the party we had no idea who this anonymous allegation was. And if anyone was working on our campaign during work hours on behalf of a company, we would immediately address that. But really, we were put in a position that we had to respond to a phantom allegation with no names, no details. And that's impossible to do.

He says he doesn't know what companies involved, what people are involved. He wasn't given those details. And so he contends, like, how would I refute that? So it's a very different interpretation from the one the party provides. Just to back up a tiny bit, just give me a little bit of a background on who Patrick Brown is and where he stood at becoming leader of the party. Yeah, you bet. I always like to make sure we do this because I don't know if everyone's like as glued to this race as I am and political junkies are. Patrick Brown is one of six people who are running to become the new Tory leader, the new Conservative Party leader. That leadership decision will be announced or vote result will be announced on September 10th. The race has been going on for a few months.

He's currently the mayor of Brampton, and he has kind of like a wild political history in this country. When you stack him up against other politicians, he was originally an MP, a federal MP, and then he ran successfully for the Ontario PC party leadership. Patrick Brown was chosen Ontario Progressive Conservative Party leader last month in a landslide win. The PCs may have lost four consecutive elections, but Brown thinks he can make the party relevant again. And then he had to leave that position because of allegations of basically sexual impropriety. Patrick Brown is now out as the leader of the province's Progressive Conservative Party, the official opposition. I learned about troubling allegations about my conduct and character, and I'm here tonight to address them. First, I want to say these allegations are false, categorically untrue, every one of them. Those allegations were made through a news outlet, through CTV.

He ultimately sued CTV and was able to secure like, you know, they essentially had to retract because they got some details wrong, though they didn't retract the whole story. But they did sort of retract a significant part of it that alleged, you know, pretty serious wrongdoing. So he said, hey, that's over with. And this whole time he's Brampton Mayor, I should say. Very soon after, once the lawsuit was settled, he said, I'm going to run to be leader of the Conservative Party. I'm Mayor Patrick Brown. I'm a fighter. I'm a leader. I'm a winner. Stand with me and stand together for a better future for Canada. Just to give people a sense of like how he sort of sits in the pile of the six people, he's kind of like a real, you'd say he's one of the front runners. Like Pierre Polyev is the front runner pretty conclusively.

But behind him would be the Jean Charest and the Patrick Browns. Right. So he was in contention. He said he signed up 150,000 people out of the 675,000 who are able to vote in this leadership. Right. So a substantial amount. are able to vote in this leadership, right? So a substantial amount. And he sort of was very successful in doing that, signing up memberships and ultimately a path to victory in the provincial race for the PC party. He's pretty socially progressive. You know, he's what you would characterize as a progressive conservative among the six who are running. But he, like I have pointed out, is not free of political controversy in the past,

that's for sure. Okay. And I guess with that context, let's go back to how he's responding to these allegations. Like, he says they're not true, but like, why does he think he's being ousted then? Like, because he was making some pretty serious allegations of his own. Oh, yeah. So basically, he says this is all Pierre Polyev. And we know very clearly who was behind it, who benefits from this. The one person who benefits from this is Pierre Polyev. Actually, it's his supporters who are the ones, the people that have advocated for every request he's had before, from an earlier leadership vote to not having me approved as a candidate. The people that are his biggest advocates were the ones pushing for this.

And he's the one celebrating today. And a party establishment that supports Polyev. They don't want someone like me with the views I hold running this party. I was too serious a threat to Polyev. And so this is the result of that. I think it's fair to point out, look, I asked him many times, do you have proof of that? Do you have proof that Polyev's campaign was behind this? He does not. He says that there were some conversations between campaigns that lead him to believe this. First of all, it was Pierre Polyev's supporters on LEOC who are the ones

advocating for this. On top of that, members of Pierre's campaign had even communicated to my campaign chair, John Reynolds, that they were going to be successful in pursuing this. And so very clearly, Pierre's campaign was behind this. He then points out sort of the disparities in their ideology and their policy positions. And again, that he's a threat. The positions I took in this leadership campaign were different than what some conservatives were accustomed to. I said very clearly it doesn't matter who you love, where you're born, the color of your skin, what god you worship, we were going to fight for everyone. I said that I would attend pride parades, I would challenge Islamophobia, you know I would oppose

Bill 21 relentlessly. I took positions that the party hadn't taken before, and I think it made some uncomfortable. And so he has arrived at this conclusion. I don't think there's any sort of independent method or means through which we can prove that at this point, but that is what he's contending. Now, Polyev's campaign says we weren't the ones to level this complaint or be the whistleblower. The party, I spoke to Rob Batherson tonight, who's the party president. He says it wasn't it wasn't Polyev's campaign. He intimated it was someone within Brown's own campaign who actually brought the information to the party's attention. So still lots of questions around that. But Brown's basically saying this is Polyev trying to get me out of the race. Well, I guess similarly, if this whistleblower has this,

you know, alleged documentation, shouldn't it be quite easy for Brown to refute that, right? Like, is he offering proof that these allegations are false? Well, he says he doesn't know more about the allegations. He just knows that the party is saying a corporation paid someone in his campaign to do something, but he doesn't know which corporation or who the someone is. The party says, not directly, but has basically, again, insinuated that actually that information is accessible. I think, not directly, but has basically, again, insinuated that actually that information is accessible. I think the problem here, like if I'm kind of taking a 50-foot view, is Patrick Brown is able to say this stuff because that information isn't in the public domain. The party just basically says he did something wrong. We think he broke some laws.

It's really bad. So he shouldn't be able to run. Like it's a very significant decision to make without sharing with the public the details and the evidence that led you to that conclusion, that led you to believe the only way through this was to disqualify one of your six candidates. Right. So I feel like if we were to see a paper trail, if we were to see that documentation, if those kinds of details came to light, it would be a lot harder for Patrick Brown to kind of fill the vacuum and to be able to say all these things about what's what he believes is happening. And he would be forced to counter or try and refute the specifics of the allegations. But right now it's just so broad. It's like, you know, I can understand how people watching or listening would be like, well, maybe a point yeah are they gonna release that information well jamie i've asked i can tell you

that someone it just feels like this could probably be cleared up like well i'm like send me the letter that you sent him like send me like come on like let's see some of these details and i can also tell you i did not get a response and the I did get, I've asked like as many people as possible are like, uh, we'll check. Like nothing conclusive. So, I mean, I think I'll be watching now to see if they leak it, if they make it public, you know, writ large. But I do genuinely feel there is some pressure on the party to do more. I don't know if it's like reveal all of it because they might have to protect some of it for the whistleblower, but reveal some of it more than you have already or else people will continue to sort of think this seems like you can see how people might have the impression there's

some sort of ulterior motive here. Right. Because we just don't know the reasons why other than this like broad statement. Yeah. And Patrick Brown's now saying that he's gonna try to get back in this in this race right he's gonna appeal this decision and he's also talking with his lawyers about like whether or not there's a legal avenue i mean again maybe this will force some more information to come out about why exactly the party felt like they had met the bar to disqualify him but everyone's not going to shut up and just be sort of like, yeah, OK, thanks for the, you know, thanks for a few months, but I'm not going to be a candidate anymore. Like, there's no way. That was fun. Yeah, he's not going to fade peacefully into the background. So it continues. It will persist to be a problem for the party unless

like something more comes to light. Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Meantime, it feels like there's a bit of a pile on here. Like his current job, Mayor Brampton, could also be under threat. Five councillors, including two deputy mayors, put out a statement on Wednesday saying his, quote, scandalous time inside Brampton City Hall also needs to end.

Deputy Mayor, can you tell me what your concerns are? Well, mostly concerns are going back to leadership. Like we don't have the information just like you. But my more concern is what's going on at the city. It's a bad reputation for us. And today we had council meeting that was canceled again. And it's the fourth council meeting. So it's kind of stopping business.

They, too, say that they are investigating financial irregularities. I know there were some accusations about like awarding contracts to firms with close ties to Brown and unqualified candidates hired into senior staff positions. And so were you able to ask him about that when you talked to him today? I was. Yeah. And I'll preface my comments by saying I am very far from being an expert on Brampton City politics. But from what I gather, you know, there is certainly a camp within city council that is concerned about the ethics around decision making where Patrick Brown is concerned. He says there is five councillors who have taken one position over the last number of years and five councillors who have taken another position. The block of five councillors that you spoke about. They made allegations.

It was investigated by Deloitte. I supported the investigation, and Deloitte found there was no wrongdoings at all. These were allegations against our previous CEO. All of that may be true. Again, I'm not an expert in the back and forth of Brampton City Council, but what I do see are another set of concerns around the ethical or lack thereof behavior of Patrick Brown, this time at the municipal level, but it's been raised

at the provincial level. It's been raised at the federal level now in this race. And someone said to me today, like, wow, it was surprising that a candidate was disqualified, but it wasn't that surprising that it was Patrick Brown. And by that, I don't mean to attach any sort of merit or judgment on the back and forth and what's been alleged or anything like that. But there have long been questions raised in different instances about sort of the ethics of Patrick Brown as a politician. And they may all be refutable. They may all be wrong. But the fact that they are raised, you know, more than once and in different levels of government and in different instances, I think does create a bit of an impression. Yeah. Although I feel like his camp would probably put this all in the same category of political hitchhikes. Is that is that like a fair? Yeah, that's exactly what he said to me. You know, their involvement right now is clearly at the behest of Pierre Pauliev's campaign, who have been trying to create disruption in Brampton, just like they're doing right now. Essentially, it was like politics is dirty, politics is messy, people come after you.

And again, like that could be true. I just feel like it's many, many men in my life having broken up with me or dumped me. And I'm like, it's him. It's him. It's him. It's always his fault. Like eventually you got to look in the mirror for a few seconds and be like, is it really all them? Is it a little bit me? I just feel like the public at large, right? Like there's only so many times you can say it's all about my political enemies. And I am like the political victim here. You can, you can only say that so many times before I think Canadians like take a pause and they're like, is it all everyone else? Are there, you mentioned, I mean, you mentioned before Polyeth's camp is denying that they have any involvement in this and that the Conservative Party has sort of intimated it came from within Brown's camp.

Have any other Conservative leadership candidates weighed in on this drama? Like, I know he's supposed to have a pretty close relationship with Joshua Ray, no? Yes, he does. They are friends. And certainly there had been, like, rumors at the outset of this campaign that there was maybe some sort of formalized pact between the two. I will say that today, it wasn't like other campaigns were jumping up and down trying to get their take on this on TV or into the public realm. We did reach out to a number of the campaigns and Sheree's campaign was very quick to respond to me and essentially just highlighted the issue of

transparency. They characterized this as a really serious decision and they wanted to see more about the allegations and more about what led the leadership organizing committee to ultimately make this decision. And that's kind of where they left it. It wasn't like they were like, this is the worst thing in the world or terrible wrongdoing or, you know,

I think everybody kind of wants to stay away from it a little bit, strategically speaking, but I feel like all of them would benefit from more transparency, really. Even PolyA, for all their campaigns saying this wasn't us, the perception that they had something to do with it could actually stick to some degree. And I'm sure that's not what they would want. And so in the interest of like clearing the air for all the campaigns, like that transparency will certainly be key. Yeah, yeah. So I just I just want to kind of continue on that thread, right? Like, who could this benefit? Who could this hurt? Because I was trying to think about that

today. Like, does it benefit anyone? I mean, like, I guess it's a boon for Polyev because Patrick Brown is taken out of the race. But like you just said, it can also sort of stick to him. And, and does he want to win the leadership race like under this kind of cloud, right? Yeah, it's so it's so hard to tell at this point. I think like I always struggle with this because on the face of it, it really seems like Polyev has it in the bag. Right. And we had a panelist tonight, Corey tonight, and he said, yeah, I think basically what this does to the race is Polyev goes from a 98 percent chance of winning to a 100% chance of winning. But I always like, in my gut, I have trouble being that like emphatic about things because I have seen so many leadership races and elections go sideways.

Right. So you never know. But it's certainly like it's hard to think otherwise. Like there is a chance Polyev wins this and probably a good chance on the first ballot. And ultimately, if Patrick Brown is not there in his first place, votes aren't counted, then, yeah, it probably buoys Polyev's chances. But you're right. Like, you know, if it does turn out that the campaign, Polyev campaign had something to do with this, well, that could have a negative effect, too. So it's kind of hard to determine overall what it does. I think the interesting thing to really pay attention to is the 150,000 people that Brown's campaign say that they signed up. Ultimately, Brown has characterized those members as people who wouldn't normally be attracted to a leadership race or wouldn't normally be involved in a leadership race and largely consisting of new Canadians.

It's unfortunate because there's now over 150,000 members who I signed up, many who joined the Conservative Party for the first time, who are now being disenfranchised, that they paid their $15 thinking they'd have a vote that where they could take the Conservative Party on a different path. And that is something he did in the provincial race as well. So do those voters feel disenfranchised after what's happened? Do they ultimately decide that they want to be a part of this party leader selection process and they end up voting for other people?

If so, who do they go to and will it make a tangible impact in any way? Like, I don't know if it's a given they go to Jean Charest, for example. I don't even know for sure it's 150,000 members. Like, we don't have proof of a lot of this stuff. That's what the campaign says. So I feel like there's just so many unknown variables or variables that are really difficult to quantify to make some sort of pronouncement about how the race unfolds from here. But I do think that there will be like overall some effect from this and even in the politics of it all. Right. Like the way in which this race is framed or discussed or debated or put into the public sphere. I mean, it's all changed after today. Right. Like this is a big story.

It's probably not a great look for this conservative party. Right. Like I imagine like maybe the only people who are happy tonight are the liberals. And yeah, my my panelist was like glowing this evening there was a big smile from ear to ear i mean last week we were talking about her party's sort of uh implosion in different aspects and this week now we're very focused on this so yeah like like i said like it all revolves around the level of transparency and basically the party right now is saying trust us us, he did bad things. He had to be disqualified.

If they are able to move beyond the sort of just trust us line, I think it's salvageable for them. But right now it looks like a bit of a mess. All right, Sashi, thank you. Thank you for this. And we will be obviously following this. Someone please release more information.

Thanks, Jamie. All right, so a quick update before we go. In the interview, I mentioned how Patrick Brown's campaign says it plans to appeal the decision in order to get back in the race. Well, on Wednesday night, the president of the Conservative Party of Canada, Robert Batherson, said the rules do not provide for appealing a disqualification decision. So we'll see. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.