Front Burner - Politics! Carney’s new team, recount conspiracies

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

On Tuesday, Prime Minister Mark Carney’s new cabinet was sworn in at Rideau Hall. Among them are 24 new faces but also a solid handful of the same big names from the previous government. What does it tell us about the government’s priorities? Is it enough of a change from the Trudeau years?Plus, the Liberals gained a seat after winning a recount in the Quebec riding of Terrebonne by a single vote. It’s fuelling conspiracy theories and misinformation about the electoral process.CBC’s chief political correspondent, Rosemary Barton, joins us to talk about all that and more.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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And I share this responsibility with the members of Canada's new federal cabinet. Hey everyone, I'm Jamie Poisson. Yesterday, Prime Minister Mark Carney's new cabinet was sworn in at Rideau Hall. 28 ministers, 10 secretaries of state. Among them are 24 new faces, but also a solid handful of the same big names from the previous government. What does it tell us about the government's priorities and is it enough of a change from the Trudeau years? Plus, the Liberals gained a seat after winning a recount in a Quebec riding by a single vote. It's fueling conspiracy theories and misinformation about the electoral process

that started well before Election Day. So I'm going to talk about all of this and more with Rosemary Barton, CBC's chief political correspondent. Rosie, hey. Hey, Jamie. So I know that you just talked about this new cabinet for what, four hours on live TV. So we thought, hey, why don't we make you come onto the show and do it again? It was definitely more than four hours. It was definitely more than four hours. But yes, delighted to be here. Hello.

Are you? Thank you for coming. All right. Cabinet ministers sworn in today. But yes, delighted to be here. Hello. Are you? Thank you for coming. All right. Cabinet ministers sworn in today, a core group of 28 ministers and then 10 additional junior ministers, I guess, called secretaries of state.

These guys will not manage federal departments or attend all cabinet meetings, but they will be in charge of priorities like seniors and combating crime, stuff like that is my understanding. And just to get rolling here, can you just tell me a bit about Carney's thinking on how he has structured all of this with these different tiers, which is different than the Trudeau government? Yeah, it's different. It goes back to Jean Chrétien was the last one

who had this kind of structure. I mean, it matters and it doesn't. In previous governments, there have been parliamentary secretaries who sort of are in charge of other things and help ministers out. This one I think was in part to try and get some new faces, additional new faces around the table

and inside the ministry, and in part to put an accent on a couple of other issues. These are not, these secretaries of state are not people who will sit at the main table for cabinet meetings. There's a cabinet meeting on Wednesday. I would not expect them to be there. They weren't even behind the prime minister when he gave his press conference. But they will have roles to play to support ministers. Gotcha. Now that we've done that, let's talk about who's in, who's out, what were the big

moves and what do they say about the direction and priorities of this government in your view? I think that the goal here for the prime minister was to show change, right? He did need to do that. He said that in the press conference after that there was a mandate for change that needed to be apparent in this cabinet. What he couldn't do though was kind of flush all of the experience that was around a previous cabinet table and particularly in roles that are vital right now when dealing

with the United States. So the finance minister, Francois-Philippe Champagne, who's actually never tabled a budget before but has had many other portfolios around the cabinet table, is staying in that job. And I think that that speaks to sort of the priorities that the prime minister has around the economy and security. And so you saw some of those other jobs, David McGinty, for instance, moved from public safety to defense.

That's also all part of sort of the conversation with the United States. And I noticed Dominic LeBlanc, his role changed a bit, right? You're responsible for US-Canada trade and intergovernmental affairs, but maybe worth noting he was sworn in first. I, Dominic LeBlanc, do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will truly and faithfully Which I think signaled something or was an attempt to signal something. Yeah, it is the prerogative of the Prime Minister and his office to decide how the order of this. So you're right that that was significant.

Dominic LeBlanc moving from international trade and intergovernmental affairs to this new portfolio of a minister responsible for Canada-US trade, intergovernmental affairs as you said, and this one Canadian economy that the Prime Minister has been talking about. So a couple of interesting things about that. Canada-US trade now becomes its own sort of job which makes a lot of sense given that Dominique LeBlanc has worked very closely with the Secretary of Commerce. Of course, LeBlanc was down there with the Prime Minister last week. The Intergovernmental Affairs piece is working with the premiers, something that LeBlanc

has been doing for a long time, as is the One Canadian Economy. That's about sort of finding ways to push through big national projects across the country. And it really speaks to, I think, Dominique LeBlanc's talents and skills as a politician. This is a guy who's good with people. He can get people on the phone. He can talk them into doing things. He can consider what they're saying and bring that back. He is very political.

And that's, I think, what this role is. And that makes a lot of sense in many ways. Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Jolie is out of her role. She moves to Minister of Industry. And Minister responsible for Canada Economic Development for Quebec regions. That's good. Thank you.

Do we have a sense of how she might feel about this? Certainly Foreign Affairs is quite a high profile position. Melanie Jolie, as you know, and I'm sure many people know, does have ongoing leadership ambitions, right? She's a young woman who's come up through the ranks of the party and has had lots of roles, has had to rebuild herself a couple of times after some weaknesses, but certainly in this role as Minister of Foreign Affairs sort of gained new credibility. What she has not had is an economic portfolio, which is kind of a must if you're going to

ever think about becoming the leader of a party or the Prime Minister of Canada. It's also a role where she can still stay deeply involved in the Canada-U.S. relations piece. The Minister of Industry, remember, will be in charge of steel and aluminum, thinking about how to help those workers, the auto sector, building up those relationships. Our primary focus is on the economy and our primary focus is on the Canadian economy. And we are at the start of an industrial transformation, the transformation of this economy. And Madame Jolie, as Minister of Industry, is going to help lead that in concert with

the other members of the cabinet and myself. I think it's definitely worth us talking about Jonathan Wilkinson, former Natural Resources Minister, he was out of the role today and replaced by one of the newly elected members of Parliament, Tim Hodgson, a Toronto area business exec, the former head of Canadian operations at Goldman Sachs. I believe he also worked as an advisor to Carney at the Bank of Canada. I, Tim Hodgson, do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will truly and faithfully and to the best of my skill and knowledge

execute the powers and trusts reposed in me as Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a message being sent here? I know certainly there had been a lot of vitriol directed at Wilkinson from Albertans who felt that he was an impediment to resource development in that role.

Yeah, and Jonathan Wilkinson put out a statement on social media before the cabinet swearing in got underway, did not seem happy, obviously, seemed quite disappointed. I think from what I understand, there was a desire to start with a clean slate when it came to energy and the environment. That those files in particular had got really bogged down in not only the personalities, whether it be Stephen Gilbo or Jonathan Wilkinson, and also their connection to the former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and the ways that many people in the West felt like the prime minister was trying to cap production or limit production in the oil and gas industry.

Mark Carney has talked about trying to create energy opportunities, whether it's through pipelines or other things. And he wants to do it in an aggressive way, and he wants to do it in part to deal with all of this kind of unity issue in the country. So I think he needed a fresh face there as capable as Jonathan Wilkinson was. I do know that the oil and gas industry had been frustrated with Mr. Wilkinson. So there's some of that. This is a fresh face. This is someone who was also the chair of Hydro One, so has experience in the energy sector, has obviously the trust of Mr. Carney, given their previous relationship, has business skills, given his experience at Goldman Sachs. So I think this is really a signal that they are trying to reset the relationship on that front.

Anyone else you think is really key here that we haven't talked about before we move on? Christia Freeland maybe, let's just mention her as another name of someone who maybe was surprising that she is still in cabinet given that she was the one that sort of kicked off all the tumult to where we are. Now there had been talk that she was the one that sort of kicked off all the tumult to where we are. Now, there had been talk that she was not going to be in cabinet, that she was going to be offered an embassy job, an ambassador role. That didn't happen. She's staying in transport and internal trade. You know, I think that's a recognition of her capability and her experience as well. and also making really sure that given

the way Donald Trump talked about her just a week ago, that she's nowhere near the details of that file because that would just not be helpful. There are two kinds of people in the world. Backward thinkers and forward thinkers. Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now. They're not just one step ahead, they're 1,000 steps ahead. And when you're a forward thinker, you need a platform that thinks like you do. Workday's AI illuminates decision-making

and reimagines how you manage your people and money for long-term success. Workday, moving business forever forward. I know I'm not the only one getting inundated with political news right now. Headlines, breaking alerts, and a whole lot of chatter on social media that frankly never feels like the full story.

But if you wanna go beyond the replies and the Reddit threads, you need Left, Right and Center. It's a weekly round table with representatives from both sides of the aisle. Because you want to understand, not just hear someone agree with you. I'm David Green, moderating Left, Right and Center from KCRW.

New episodes drop every Friday Friday wherever you get podcasts. Big picture here. Now that you've talked about it for many, many hours, like, what do you think Carney was signaling with these cabinet choices and with his press conference as well on Tuesday when he like was trying to explain them, right? What was, what What's the big takeaway

message about this new government that we saw today? That this is a cabinet that is built for the moment. We're going to deliver that mandate with a new team, purpose-built, for this hinge moment in Canada's history. Just the same way that Mark Carney told Canadians he was built for the moment, that this is a ministry that is set to respond to, yes, to Donald Trump, but also to creating a much stronger, independent Canadian economy inside the country. You know, he talked about how it needed, as I said before, to signal change. He thinks that he struck the right note on that. We'll see what everyone else thinks about it.

Canadians elected us with a mandate for change. There is a great deal of change in this cabinet by necessity. That's what Canadians voted for. I also thought that he, you know, he did a good job there of saying that this is a real cabinet. You know, all prime ministers start off with that intention. Yes. And over time, decisions become centralized in the prime minister's office. This cabinet is smaller and more focused than those of previous governments. It will operate with a commitment to true cabinet government with everyone expected and empowered to show leadership, to bring new ideas, to have a clear focus, and to take decisive actions

to accomplish their work. I also thought that he, with this cabinet, recognized that not everybody voted for them and that this cabinet is now at the service of all Canadians. And that was an important message to send. He brought in new blood. That was really important. He brought in people that are from diverse backgrounds and different places right across the country. Every region of the country, with the exception of Saskatchewan, has a full cabinet minister and Saskatchewan has

a secretary, a secretary of state. So it is broadly representative, even if there's still lots of Canadians who don't see themselves in these people. It was at least an attempt to reach out after a very different kind of election that has left some fractures inside the country. So Pauliev came out after the announcements, obviously, but then after Karney gave his presser Pauliev came out quite soon after. And I think it's probably worth noting here that this is the first time that we've actually seen Polio since the election in this kind of setting.

Yeah, he did a little scrum on his way in one day. Right. This is the first time he's done like a formal press conference. Yeah. And just how would you describe what he did there? Spoiler alert. He did not think that the cabinet signaled enough change. Yeah, which I think is totally fair. The first words out of his mouth

were, you know, quite magnanimous. I'd like to begin today in English by congratulating the new ministers for their roles. It's literally a one in a million opportunity. I think they have 40 ministers in total and there's about 41 million people, so it's literally one in a million to be a minister and a big accomplishment to get to that place. Maybe conciliatory saying that, listen, our job is to hold the government to account, we're going to do that. That doesn't mean we reflexively oppose everything the government does. When it comes, for example, to foreign affairs, the government does a good job at defending

our national interests in negotiations with the U.S., then we will support those efforts. And when they're right, we'll stand with them. When they're wrong, we will oppose them. So that was all like, oh, who's this fellow? And then for the next 15 minutes, it was, oh, this is Pierre Poilieff, which was attacking the choices, naming people in particular, Stephen Gilbo. Stephen Gilbo, whose radical green agenda would shut down all future developments in our resource industry,

is still the minister responsible for Quebec. Sean Fraser, Gregor Robertson. What's his record on housing? Well, he increased housing taxes in Vancouver by 141 percent. And the result was that housing costs went up by 149 percent. He went back to Fraser like multiple times. Multiple times.

He caused all the problems in immigration and all the housing problems in Canada. Sean Fraser is the immigration, was the immigration minister who caused the immigration crisis, the housing minister who gave us the housing crisis, and now he's the minister responsible for addressing the liberal crime crisis. It seems like he is the master at failing upward. Like, I think those are all, that's all fine, right? I fully understand and support official opposition's job, and it is so critical, particularly after an election,

to make sure that a government delivers on what they're doing. I just don't know that that was the right message for today. I would have expected him to sort of set the expectations for the cabinet. Okay, they've said this, I want to see, I would like to see this and this, and here's some more ideas they could take from me, and I hope they can get there by this time. And if they don't, then we'll see how it goes. This is a guy who lost the election, even though he improved their score, not only their seat

count, but also their votes, but he also lost his own seat. And I just don't know that the lack of humility that we heard from Pierre Pauliev on Tuesday hits the mark right now. This is also after the prime minister told him directly, I'll hold a by-election for you. No games. Oh, by the way, stay in the house where you're living. We don't care. No big deal.

And so to come out and just sort of, you know, attack people personally, I guess that's the point that I found kind of like a bit weird. We'll see, you know, what he's like inside the House of Commons. We're not going to see that for months. The summer is the East, right? Because he's not away in this by-election. Yeah. But it certainly signaled to me that Pierre Polyev is not going to let this government off easily and nor should they. But, you know, whether he can strike the right balance between accountability and partisan sniping, I think

is still open for debate. [♪ MUSIC PLAYING FADES IN AND OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND FADES OUT OF TUNE AND in Quebec this week. So this is a writing where the block candidate was initially thought to be the winner and then because the results were so close, a recount was ordered and it flipped to the liberals by a single vote. And just how remarkable is that? Has that ever happened before? I'm sure it's happened before, but I actually asked Elections Canada

and they don't have enough, like they don't have enough, like they don't have enough data to be able to give us that answer. It is remarkably rare. That is totally fair to say. You know, recounts happen and there are more recounts happening this week, but to flip a seat by one vote, I mean, that whole, you know, notion that every vote counts, like, but actually every vote counts. And that is a pretty incredible outcome that was accepted, right? I should point out that was accepted by the Bloc candidate and the Bloc Québécois as well, because this is a process that does not happen in a vacuum. Like, there are people

there for each party going through the recount and the scrutineers. Yeah. And just to be clear, because I know there were some reporting about Elections Canada investigating after a voter in that riding came forward with this envelope that there was a block vote inside. Is this over now? Is it a liberal riding? So from what I understand is they are, Elections Canada is still looking at that particular issue. I don't know really what judicial recourse could be had, right? If it's a mail-in ballot, it still has to get there in time, even if there was a mistake on the letter. I think we're getting into the weeds a little bit here now. And I don't know, could there be another judicial recount?

Maybe, I'm not sure anyone's interested in that, but we'll see. But this matters, not just because as I said, every vote matters, but it matters because of where the liberals sit in terms of how close they are to a majority. Right, so it brings them to 170 and they need 172 to form a majority. And as you mentioned, there are three other

writings being counted. And as I understand it, they currently have two of them. So they would obviously hope to hold them, but they could potentially pick up another seat in Windsor to come say at Lakeshore, right? Which would still not get them to a majority, but would get them to like 171, right? Yeah. But you know, what, what, what might get you to a majority is someone crosses the floor, although that doesn't seem to be actively a conversation, just FYI, you know, there's been different reporting out there, but I can't find anyone who's been offered anything. And those conversations are very, very discreet if they're happening, right?

They would be very discreet. The other thing that you might do is you might try and, well, you would make sure that someone else takes over the seat, the speaker job for sure. You'd make sure that a conservative does that so that you can keep your numbers to your advantage. So yeah, I mean, is it the way you want to win a majority by picking away at recounts and judicial flips? Probably not. But it does, again, bring credence to that idea that this is a very stable and strong minority. It could not get stronger as a minority. And so there is some leeway here for the liberals in terms of governing. And just elaborate for me a little bit on that. I saw John Kutchea, former Prime Minister John Crutchea today call it...

Virtual majority. You know, we're close to a majority, so it will be very stable. Virtually a majority. Oh, yes. Yeah. I don't think anyone else should say that. I think John Crutchea can get away with saying that. Like, okay.

Yeah. But I wouldn't recommend that these new cabinet ministers or the prime ministers start walking around as though this is a virtual majority. It is not. They still need to find the votes to get things done. And they need to do that to make sure that this very aggressive agenda, you know, federal regulations on inter-provincial trade, middle-class tax cut by July 1st, all these other things happen quickly.

So they'll have to go out and find the people that will support them. I don't have any doubt that they'll be able to find two or three votes on some of these issues, but they will have to do that work and they'll have to do that parliamentary work to make sure that there is reach out to the other side. The prime minister has said he wants to do that, he will do that, but he's never done this before, and he doesn't know how a minority government works. So we'll see how well they are at managing that. I do want to spend a little bit of time on this because I think it is important. Back

to the recounts, they have fueled some suspicions that there is something untoward going on. I've been seeing accounts posting on X, for example. One vote. We are being played. There's no other way to say it. We are being played. And there's no possible way that somebody can tell me that they don't suspect something's weird here. The conservatives released a fundraising email last week saying, quote, the liberals are working to flip just enough seats to edge closer to a majority. We can't let that happen. It ended with, quote, the liberals are fighting hard to tip the scales.

And I just what generally has been some of the reaction to that email coming from the conservative party? Well, I'll tell you where the reaction didn't come from, and that is from the Conservative Party when our reporter Kat Toney reached out to them to say, like, what's up with this? There was no explanation for it. It is, of course, a party's right to be there for recounts and to make sure that the results are valid. That's why they have scrutineers from each party at those counts. They have lawyers who represent them in judicial recounts.

But suggesting in some way that there is an attempt to flip the results and that Canadians should start doubting the results of elections, I think is very dangerous. It's particularly dangerous when we see what's happening south of the border, the stop the steal stuff, and the way that has sort of crept its way right through the electoral system in the United States. The difference here, and it's a big one, is that Elections Canada is an independent agency in charge of managing elections, including the vote, to make sure that it is trustworthy, well done, and that it is beyond reproach. That doesn't happen in the United States, right? It's every district and every state that does its own count.

So, you know, I think political parties have to be pretty careful when they start going down that road about questioning results. You can, of course, legitimately contest results, but suggesting that a party is out to tip the scale after the fact, that seems to me like a pretty shoddy way to fundraise. Yeah. And I just, I think it's worth noting the Canadian Digital Media Research Network

found that narratives around election manipulation were on the rise here before the election, including misinformation about voting process. And it found that while the majority of people were confident that the election would be held fairly, there were more conservatives among them who didn't think that. And of course, you'll know well, there were claims of fraud and unfairness when it came to Polly of losing his own riding. For example, these very unfounded allegations of liberal riding manipulation.

The boundaries were changed. It was not a liberal, you know, political process. Also allegations of like immigrants flooding the riding with liberal votes completely debunked and this isn't really a question but just probably a reminder that you know these are things to be vigilant about. Yeah and I will say this although the Conservative Party sent out that fundraising letter and didn't explain it. I have not heard from one leader or MP elect say those things out loud. Pierre Poliev is certainly not saying those things. He is not doubting or questioning the results of the election. I think that's

important. Maybe he should get his party to back off, but it is important to note that that is not something that we're hearing from politicians or elected officials and that too is is reassuring I think. Okay good note to end on. Rosie thank you. Thanks Jamie. All right, that is all for today. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you all tomorrow.