Front Burner - Politics! Farewell Freeland, hello mega-projects

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

For the first time since June, MPs returned to the House of Commons to decide the path of Canada’s future. And just a few days into the fall session, it’s already looking like a busy season.After more than a decade in politics, Chrystia Freeland announced she is calling it quits. Pierre Poilievre and Mark Carney faced off for the first time in question period, and we learned when we’ll see the Liberals’ long-delayed budget –– and got a preview of some of the obstacles the minority government will face in getting it passed.Rosemary Barton, CBC’s chief political correspondent, is back to discuss an eventful week in Parliament and what we know about the national interest projects that are so key to the Prime Minister’s agenda.

I never thought the enemy would be inside my own ranks. Hi, I'm Sandra Puraugh. I was Canada's first female infantry officer, and being the first man, I had to fight some pretty tough battles on and off the battlefield. You know they're going to use this to say women can't be in combat arms. If this picture gets out, it would damage the men who are bravely serving this country. Discover my true story on screen for the first time. See Outstanding, only in Canadian theaters on September 26th.

This is a CBC podcast. Hey, everyone. I'm Jamie Poisson. After more than a decade in politics, Christia Freeland is calling it quits. She announced the news as MPs returned to the House of Commons from summer break, which is where Pierre Pollyov and Mark Carney faced off for the first time in question period. Rosie Barton, Chief Political Correspondent, is with me, and we are going to talk about how an eventful week in Ottawa is shaping up, including some

real details about the national interest projects that are so key to Mark Carney's agenda. Rosie, hey, always great to have you. Hi, Jamie. Let's start with this week's big news. Christopher Freeland will leave her post in cabinet as the current transport and internal trade minister for a rule, a special international Ukrainian envoy. They're calling it Canada's special representative for the reconstruction of Ukraine. What did you make of the announcement? Were you surprised by it? That's a good question. Was I surprised by it? I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no. I think that Christia Freeland, since resigning the first time from Cabinet, which she did, you remember back in December of last year, this is now the same.

second time she's leaving cabinet, has sort of struggled with where she would go and what she would be next. And when it became clear that prime minister was not where she was going to go after she lost the race to Mark Carney, I think there were then some questions about what her role in a Mark Carney cabinet would be. And there were some positions, frankly, that that weren't going to work going forward. She couldn't be the finance minister again. She couldn't be the Minister of Foreign Affairs for a handful of reasons. And I think that Christian Friedland was probably looking for what's next for her career. And this is the beginning, I think, of that transition. Right. Well, just tell me a little bit more about why you think she couldn't be. Well, both the

finance minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, I would imagine that some of it has to do with how much Trump seems to dislike her personally. For sure. I think that's a big factor. And it's actually something that she is proud of, that she boasts about that Donald Trump, yeah, was no friend of hers and called her, you know, toxic and all sorts of other names. I won't say this about Mark, but I didn't like his predecessor. I didn't like a person that worked. She was terrible, actually. She was a terrible person. And she really hurt that deal very badly because she tried to take advantage of the deal and she didn't get away with it. You know what I'm talking about. That doesn't bother her. But it certainly,

would have, I think, impeded the negotiations or the talks with Donald Trump going forward. And I think Christian Freeland probably understands that to some extent as well. I also think she, although, you know, friends with Mark Carney personally, is much more associated, obviously, with Justin Trudeau, who recruited her back in 2013 when the Liberal Party was nothing, really, was trying to rebuild. So it was going to be difficult for her to have a position as prominent as she did under Justin Trudeau. You know, she was deputy prime minister at one point. That wasn't going to happen again as Mark Carney sort of takes control of the party and sort of rebuild it to look very different than it has looked under Justin Trudeau.

And, you know, being Minister of Transport, while important, probably, you know, wasn't using enough of the skills and abilities that she has personally. And I think that she was looking for another opportunity, frankly. So what is this new gig? What will she be doing? It's a struggle for me to answer that question because I really, I am not 100% sure, and I'm also not 100% sure how long she'll be doing it. This is a position that has been created for her. It is created by an order in counsel,

which means that the prime minister has signed off on it. And she will report directly to him in terms of, you know, how she's going to represent Canada and move forward these attempts to rebuild Ukraine and help Ukraine from all that perspective, all those many perspectives. Listen, she is well-versed on this topic, has many connections, personal and professional in Ukraine, is no, again, no friend of Vladimir Putin's and has sanctions against her, again, something that she's. quite proud of. I think that Canada has obviously a prominent role in the rebuilding of Ukraine. We are expecting the Prime Minister and President Zelensky to have some announcements next week at the UN in New York. And so, you know, she will contribute as much as the Prime Minister wants her to on the international stage to helping Ukraine figure out what comes next if they ever get to a peace agreement. What I actually think this is about, and I will say,

some people around Ms. Freeland sort of admitted as much is this is about trying to spend a little more time in the international waters where she has spent time in the past and where she's very comfortable, that this is not the only thing she's going to be doing. Obviously, she'll stay as MP until she decides to give that up as well, that she wants to look at more opportunities to write books, to do journalism or be a columnist. I really view this as sort of a transition role for Christy Frilynd. And I think part of the reason for that is that they need the right timing on when to call a by-election, to be frank. There are some other people, liberal MPs, that may well step aside as well in the next few months. And I think they need to get past the hump of the budget and those confidence votes until they can start to put all of those pieces into place. So this is a graceful exit of her choosing. and it allows her to do something which is very important to her personally until she figures out what these other things are.

You know, the one thing that I know a lot of people talked about around this was that comment and the statement that she made about how this is not about spending more time with her family or the burden of public life. And she made that comment because very often, yeah, we usually get that as sort of an excuse for why people are leaving. So I think she purposely put that there to make it clear that she is not stepping away from public life. So I fully expect whether she stays in this sort of transition role for the prime minister for a long time or moves on to something else, she will be contributing to public life in some way. Right. And just on that point you made about the liberals needing to get over this hump of the budget, just for people listening, we're obviously in a minority parliament right now. there are three votes down to pass their budget. So they need to keep as many MPs as they have kind of on the floor.

They sure do. Yeah. They sure do. It was just last December, as you mentioned, that she resigned from Justin Trudeau's cabinet, an event that led to the prime minister eventually stepping down, really a very seismic event in Canadian politics in the history of Canadian politics. And I just wonder, before we move on, if you could talk a little bit more. about the mark that you think that she has left.

Not to make this sound like an obit on her career since we just, you know, talked about how she's not going anywhere, really. Well, yeah, I mean, she's moving on from politics at some point. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to consider her legacy. I would hope also that when people think about her contributions, it would go beyond the person that's really set fire to the end of Justin Trudeau's time as prime minister. because she really launched the grenade. She did write a hell of a letter, I will say.

Yeah, she did. I still have it printed on my desk just in case I ever need to refer to it. Yeah, and so, I mean, and that was dramatic and, you know, maybe important for the Liberal Party in terms of renewal and shocking and all those other things. But her time leading up to that, I think, is worth consideration as well. She was, of course, the first woman appointed as finance minister. I, Christia Freeland, do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will truly and faithfully, and to the best of my skill and knowledge, execute the powers and trusts reposed in me as Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.

Which is a massive job for anybody. She was, as I said to you earlier, the Deputy Prime Minister. So leading on a lot of different files, Deputy Prime Minister, aren't always even named, right? There isn't one under Mark Carney, for instance. She helped negotiate the free trade agreement with the European Union and, of course, notably managed to reach a first renegotiation of NAFTA with Donald Trump in the first iteration of his administration. So she has done sort of enormous things politically for the country and for the party. I would also say that she was really fundamental in pushing forward child care agreements in this country,

making child care affordable. And I think viewing it from the perspective as a woman and as a mother that allowing that to happen also means that women can contribute to the workforce, which contributes to the economy, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I mean, she has a long political legacy. But as I said, I don't think her legacy to the public service to the country is over at all. I never thought the enemy would be inside my own ranks. Hi, I'm Sandra Puraugh. I was Canada's first female infantry officer, and being the first man, I had to fight some pretty tough battles on and off the battlefield.

You know they're going to use this to say women can't be in combat arms. If this picture gets out, it would damage the men who are bravely serving this country. Discover my true story on screen for the first time. See Outstanding, only in Canadian theaters on September 26th. Hey, how's it going? Amazing. I just finished paying off all my debt with the help of the Credit Counseling Society. Whoa, seriously?

I could really use their help. It was easy. I called and spoke with a Credit Counselor right away. They asked me about my debt, salary, and regular expenses. Gave me a few options and helped me along the way. You had a ton of debt, and you're saying Credit Counselor, Society helped with all of it? Yep, and now I can sleep better at night.

Ha ha ha! Right on! When Debt's got you, you've got us. Give Credit Counseling Society a call today. Visit no more debts.org. Lots of announcements this week I want to get into with you. The creation of the new housing agency, we had the housing minister on yesterday, so I won't retract that.

People can listen if they would like. We also just got the list of the first projects. This government is prioritizing major projects. This government wants to fast. We will build with Canadian steel, Canadian lumber, Canadian aluminum, and by Canadian tradespeople and engineers. There are two in northern BC, the expansion of the LNG Canada Export Terminal and the Red Criss Copper Mine.

There's a copper mine in Saskatchewan, construction of a small modular reactor at Ontario's Darlington Nuclear Power Plant in the expansion of the Port of Montreal. What should we make of this list? What story does this list tell in your estimate? I think it tells the story of a government that wants to ascend a signal, that Canada is open for business, and that it is looking for a way to get big things done. And the reason I say that is because those five projects, those major projects, are all very close to the finish line in terms of actually being completed, with the exception maybe of that copper mine in British Columbia. They are all sort of, you know, tiny hurdles, whether they are investment-related or regulation-related from the end of completion. And so I think that was purposeful.

I think the government was upfront about it. And I think it is meant to reiterate to the world and to private investment that the Canada is looking for a way to do big things much faster. Because remember, the idea behind this office is that instead of, you know, making applications at three or four different departments. departments or ministries, it all just runs through this one office. And the office and the government cabinet can decide under what circumstance certain regulations or conditions can be put aside. That's what C5, that piece of legislation from last sitting did, in order for a project to be fast-tracked. It is the government's goal for these projects to be privately funded. And certainly, while some of those five projects have already had public investment, going forward they would like to see more private capital and they are hoping that that's what this will attract.

I think the problem and something people should be watching for going forward is, is that really possible when it comes to some of the big projects that maybe are difficult to get done without public funds? The Port of Churchill is an awfully good example of that because it is so far north it's about connecting different trade courts. and opportunity and sovereignty, and I think it's unlikely that that kind of project will happen without some kind of public funds. So that's the piece, I think, that we probably need to watch going forward. And the next batch, because they've also released another sort of six projects in the second phase, are already more complicated. The Ring of Fire would be a good example, right, in Northern Ontario, which is about extracting critical minerals and has been on the table for years and really complicated. conversations happening with indigenous communities around how that will happen. And so you can see that these first five, okay, you know, almost done and dusted, the next ones are going to be

harder. These, both of these lists, what did they tell you at the moment about this government's environmental priorities? Yeah, I think there are questions. I think there are legitimate questions about it. And that might seem surprising given Mark Carney's lifelong commitment to the environment and to fighting climate change. Remember, he was the UN Special Envoy to climate change. And there are questions about how that fits with an LNG expansion, right? That with the British Columbia project is the phase two of that expansion. It also, I think, fits into questions around even mining. People would have criticisms around that. And I think that it's not just this that raises some eyebrows around the commitment. It's a series of things

that have now been done under this Prime Minister from axing the consumer carbon tax, which, sure, everybody hated and was a political albatross, to putting the EV electric vehicle mandate under review, right? And we're now looking at whether or not it makes sense to hire car manufacturers to have a certain percentage of electric vehicles produced and on the road to now a very real live conversation with the province of Alberta about emissions caps where this now seems to be part of a negotiation they are having with Alberta as to whether they are needed in order to try and get other things from the province itself. So I think it's all of those things put together that start to maybe raise eyebrows for environmentalists and people

who are concerned about climate change. I don't think that means that the government isn't committed to it. And we are expecting some sort of climate competitiveness strategy this fall, which I think is an attempt to sort of weave together concerns around the economy and concerns around the environment. But I do think that there is part of the liberal caucus that is increasingly uncomfortable with some of the decisions being made and want to see a real sign of commitment and action. that climate change meant as much as it did before.

Okay. Let's talk a little bit about some of the reaction to these lists from the primers, Alberta Premier Daniel Smith first. Despite the absence of any projects in Alberta, at least on that first list, she still came out heavily in favor of it. She said, quote, I'm more optimistic than ever that the concerns of Albertans are finally being heard.

That part was in all caps. And why is she so positive here, you think? First of all, there is a project on the second list, and it's the Pathways Alliance. That's that mega project that has oil companies, the Alberta government, all trying to push towards a carbon capture project on a massive scale to reduce emissions from the oil sands. So that is on the second list, and that is a big deal if they can get it going.

Again, I would wager that that also will require some public money to get it going. Those, I mean, those comments are fairly stunning, right, for anyone that follows the relationship between Alberta and Ottawa. But clearly the premier sees an opening here. And it's not just because the federal government likes the idea of carbon capture. I think she sees an opening for the potential of an oil pipeline. no one has said no to it. All they have said, remember, is it's not on the table because there's no proponent. There's no one who's pushing a pipeline.

There's no one who's willing to go there. The Premier fundamentally believes that, you know, two things. First of all, that there's no proponent because it wasn't clear that Canada was open and ready to do business. And two, that a lot of the previous legislation by the previous government around pipelines C-69, for one, made it impossible for another pipeline to be built. So she now sees a place where perhaps all of those regulations and things can be set aside and I think is actively trying to pursue someone who will come in and do this. But I also would say that I mentioned that cap on emissions was a huge concern for oil companies in Alberta

and a huge concern for Daniel Smith. They believed that it was essentially stifling production. in the province, I think that's up for debate, but that's the way they viewed it. So if they can get that taken off, and it sounds like that's at least on the table, that is also a win for her. So she has seen things that she hasn't seen in some time, right? And I think, like a lot of premiers, Tim Houston would be another one. There is some hope about getting big things done. But, you know, we are very early days in all of this.

And, you know, I think when you start to make decisions, you also start to disappoint people. And so we'll see whether she gets all the things that she wants here. Right, right. And not just her, too. I was watching Ontario Premier Doug Ford talk about how he believes his very controversial plan. We're going to make it 19.5 meters. No one's ever done that. We're going to have one lane going east, one lane going west, and the bottom level with the train.

that's how we're going to do it. Very controversial plan to Tuttle at Expressway below Highway 401 will get the green light from Carney. He like wouldn't say why he thinks that it's going to get the green light. He wouldn't say that he had gotten any direct assurances of that. But you can see the potential here for things to get much rougher if Ford or really any of them don't get what they want. Yeah, I mean, you want to keep all these people on side, right? And the easiest way to do it is to offer them carrots and not sticks. I don't know if Mark Carney over a beer over the summer when they met in Muscoca said...

One of their sleepovers? Yeah, said whether, hey, I like this tunnel idea. I don't know. And I looked back and I can't see any record of Mark Carney saying this is the best idea ever. But I know Doug Ford is convinced that this is a project of national interest, even though some people would argue it's a project of provincial interest. Yes. Okay. The return of parliament, Pierre Pahliav, he makes his return to the House of Commons this week.

We finally get a chance to see him and Kearney face off against each other, really, for the first time since the campaign debates. Yeah. It was pretty cordial. We put a lot of pressure on this first question period back, and certainly the first time you see these two leaders jousting. And I would say, and you would think I would know better after 20 years of covering politics, that generally it disappoints you. And generally, that is not where the fireworks happen. It happens at a later date. And I think that's kind of what we saw on Monday. That being said, a couple of observations. You know, they were pretty friendly, even sort of when they were mingling in the aisle between before question period actually got started.

It started with some jokes back and forth. I thank the great Daniel Kirk who made it possible. And I thank the Prime Minister for calling a prompt by election. I wonder if one day he might regret that decision. In a spirit of good faith, I wonder if he agrees that our goal should be a Canada where hard work is rewarded, where food and homes are affordable, where streets are safe, where borders are solid,

and where we're all united under a proud flag. But I think it also quickly became apparent that this is Pierre Puellev's environment, right? Like this is basically the only job he's had, and I don't say that as a criticism, it is. And so he is very skilled as a parliament. He has a lot of rhetorical flourishes. He's a great communicator in short spurts. And he has a sole objective. And that is to push the government and to weed out promises that they are not keeping. Mark Carney, on the other hand, I thought he actually didn't do as well as he had before the summer break when he was facing off with Andrew Shear. There's a 35 second clock in which you have to squeeze in your answers. He couldn't meet it. And that may sound silly. But I do think it's worth noting because if you're the prime minister, you do have to be able to sort of be concise in your explanations as to why you're doing things and defend yourself.

And he wasn't really able to do that very well this week. I'm sure he'll get better. I'm sure things will change in terms of the dynamic. And I'm sure as soon as the government breaks a promise, makes a mistake, brings in a giant deficit, then things will get hotter. and I'll have more exciting things to tell you about question period. I just, I always like to get this kind of gossipy stuff from you and Aaron behind the scenes. Now that everyone is back from the summer, how are people in various parties feeling? I mean, we talked a little bit about some concerns around environmental policy than I imagine some liberal MPs might have,

but just generally do they feel like they're on the right track? Yeah, I mean, I would say both publicly and privately, liberals still. are happy. They somehow pulled out that win, feel confident that Mark Carney is the man of the moment, feel like they're doing some real things to deal with the serious economic headwinds that we are facing. And that in spite of the fact that, you know, I don't think the prime minister and the government really made any substantial gains when it came to Donald Trump over the course of the summer, right? They didn't really get anywhere. I think, too, the conservative party has settled down a little bit when it comes to their leader. I'm not going to say that

it's done and dusted. Remember, his leadership review is in January, and he's sort of walking a tightrope in terms of keeping the base happy and trying to attract other people. So I don't think that's over entirely, but things have settled a little bit, and there was certainly a lot of excitement in the conservative caucus on Monday to have him back and doing his thing. You know, the block and the NDP, I'll just quickly mention both of them. The block, I think, you know, They have fewer seats. They also feel invigorated by the fact that they believe because the liberal government is skewing a little more to the right, there's some space for them in Quebec for a future election, right? That the votes tend to be more progressive, left-leaning, and there's some space for the Block Quebec quite to lean in.

The NDP, it's a bit of a mess, to be honest. You know, my colleague, Marina von Stackleberg, had a great story on the weekend about the NDP out on the West Coast. In recent months, infighting became public. At the retreat, the NDP brought in a facilitator, armed with art supplies, to help them work it out. It may have helped. Yeah, because they're lost and they're leaderless, and they've got some things to sort out. So this is fundamentally for the next number of months going to be, about whether this liberal government can deliver,

how big a deficit this budget will be and how Canadians will view that, and then sort of how the opposition parties hold their feet to the fire on those big decisions that they're making. Okay. That's a good place. I think for us to wrap, Rosie, thank you. Thanks, Jamie.

Take care. Bye-bye. All right, that's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thank you so much for listening. talking to you tomorrow.