Front Burner - Pro-labour, pro-union Conservatives?

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

In recent public and media appearances, Conservative Leader Erin O'Toole has talked up the need to fight inequality through labour rights, and lamented the decline of unionization in the private sector. He's also blamed the Liberals for favouring elites over workers, and trade deals over jobs in Canada. These issues have become recurring themes as he introduces himself to Canadians after being elected leader of the Conservatives back in August. Today on Front Burner, CBC senior parliamentary reporter Catherine Cullen on the reaction to this political shift, and what might be behind it.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Too much power is in the hands of a few corporate and financial elites CEO, why are we paying a worker in Oshawa $30 an hour when we could be paying one in China $0.50 an hour? So that is Aaron O'Toole, leader of the Conservative Party, in a virtual speech to the Canadian Club of Toronto last month. And he went on to talk about the need for more unions in the private sector.

And if this startles you to hear that from a conservative, O'Toole recognizes that too. He says it's an issue that's very personal to him. You know, I grew up in a union town. You know, my dad worked at General Motors. I've always had great relations with, you know, Unifor and members of Unifor in my riding. Their interest in providing opportunity for their members is also my interest. So I am reaching out.

I've also acknowledged that that's an area we haven't always built partnerships. Today, CBC Senior Parliamentary Reporter Catherine Cullen on what might be Erin O'Toole's new vision for the Conservative Party. This is FrontBurner. Hey, Catherine, thank you so much for being here today. I am very much looking forward to this conversation. I find this all so fascinating. Well, I am completely on the same page, Jamie. I'm really interested in this. So thanks for asking me. So when did we first get

a hint of this emphasis on workers that O'Toole is presenting here? I would say the first glimmer of the hint requires you to cast your mind all the way back to that moment, 1.30 in the morning in August, when Aaron O'Toole gave his speech. He had just become leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. Whether you are black, white, brown, or from any race or creed, whether you are LGBT or straight, whether you are an Indigenous Canadian or have joined the Canadian family three weeks ago, you are an important part of Canada.

And there was one little line, but more meaningful in hindsight, I'd say, than it was at the time, where he talked about if you have voted for a different party your whole life or never voted at all, maybe you feel that as a union member, you should not vote for our party. Now, it was part of a broader appeal saying we want all kinds of Canadians to see themselves as conservatives when they look in the mirror with me as leader. It is time for many Liberal and NDP voters to socially distance themselves

from those out-of-touch parties. It is time for more Canadians to look at the Conservative Party again. But that specific reference to union members, I mean, we're talking about it today, right? It's become a recurring theme and one that's really grown as Aaron O'Toole has introduced himself to Canadians.

Oh, that's so interesting. I had no idea that it originated that night. I must have been so focused on like the envelope gate of like the delays in the night. We're staying awake at 1.30 in the morning, yeah. So I know that that vision came together some more in a speech to the Canadian Club of Toronto at the end of October. Yeah, I would even take a step back and I would say, let's move to Labor Day. I was raised in a General Motors family. My dad worked there for over 30 years. Aaron O'Toole put out a Labor Day video. And, you know, it's really typical for politicians

to send out greetings on any number of special occasions. But this really was noteworthy. And it gave a hint, a bigger hint of where things are going. He said, you know, he talked about the importance of labor, talked about growing up in Oshawa. But then he moved into some less familiar territory for a conservative leader when he said, I believe that GDP growth alone is not the end all and be all of politics.

The goal of economic policy should be more than just wealth creation. It should be solidarity. Solidarity, Jamie. That is not, you know, I'm told that word was chosen, understanding the weight that it holds, right? Solidarity, it's really a concept sort of from the labor movement or it has an important meaning within the labour movement. So this was, I think, the first time we saw the beginning of meaningful outreach to people who might consider themselves working class. And it's important to say this isn't

really fundamentally about unions, but that's certainly what's attracting a lot of attention, this idea that Aaron O'Toole is, I don't know if he's quite turning the conservative discourse on his head, but certainly surprising people by saying, listen, quality of life really matters. Profits shouldn't come first. Let's talk about trying to help you get ahead. It sounds in some ways like something that you would expect to hear much more from the left of the political spectrum. Right, right. This sort of feels like something that we hear often from the NDP. Talk to me a little bit more about how this is turning conservatives or conservative ideals on its head.

Yeah, well, let's keep going with how he has outlined this vision. And let's talk about that speech that you mentioned a moment ago. He gave this speech at the Canadian Club and he made headlines, I think for one line in particular, where he asks, do we want to be a nation of Uber drivers? Do we really want to abandon a generation of Canadians to some form of Darwinian struggle? Canadians, you're probably pretty shocked, he said. You may be surprised to hear a conservative bemoan the decline of private sector union membership, but it's part of a balance that we need in Canadian society. Now, what might make this shocking? Let's talk about a few aspects of that.

Well, one thing is something Aaron O'Toole himself once said when he kicked off his campaign to be Conservative leader. He actually said, I'm going to be Jerry Dias's worst nightmare. He actually said, I'm going to be Jerry Dias' worst nightmare. Jerry Dias, of course, the very outspoken president of Unifor, the largest union in the country. Can you believe it? Media union boss Jerry Dias started running attack ads against me. Justin Trudeau's close friend must be worried. Well, he should be worried because when I'm prime minister, I'm going to end the millions of taxpayer dollars going to bail out big media corporations. But also the conservative track record when it comes to dealing with unions, something that has really come up as this vision of Aaron O'Toole's has become more and more public and much discussed is Aaron O'Toole's own voting record and the conservative party's record when it comes to unions. There are a couple of private members' bills that came up at the end of the Harper era that really ultimately made life harder for unions. Canada's biggest union is not a fan of the Harper government. They made that

clear in the streets of Montreal today. We're concerned for our jobs. We know yesterday that Stephen Harper sold us out in the TPT and we've been forced into a trade agreement that will have negative impacts on us again. And we're trying to understand why in the middle of a campaign, we're fighting for our jobs again. None of that was welcomed by people in the union world, and Erin O'Toole did support those pieces of legislation. The Liberals have since repealed them. One thing that we know doesn't help is legislation that makes it more difficult for unions to organize and support their members. But they certainly, I mean, I really think it's that moment of like, I'll be Jerry Dias's worst nightmare. It really makes it clear they do not

traditionally have a warm and fuzzy relationship. They are traditionally, certainly in Canada, viewed as being at opposite ends of the political spectrum. Right. And of course, Jerry Dyes' union uniform has basically run ads against the Conservatives in certainly past elections. Can you give me some examples of what Aaron O'Toole is talking about here? What is he saying he wants this party to do for working class people in this country? Well, I had the opportunity to talk to some of the people around Aaron O'Toole who are working on this policy. And there's one distinction that they think is quite important. They believe there is perhaps a misperception, some confusion that perhaps Aaron O'Toole is now trying to be Jerry Dias's best buddy.

Not the case. He's not looking to court union executives. He is looking to court Canadians who might identify themselves or find themselves in the working class. So they might be union members, but they also might not be union members. Aaron O'Toole is speaking to people or trying to speak to people who feel left out, who feel that the policies not only of the federal liberals, but of the federal conservatives in the past just haven't helped them get ahead. That a lot of the big changes in the world, and listen,

this may sound very familiar when you start to think about global politics, but that a lot of the big changes that have happened in the world over the course of the past few decades have left these people behind. The Liberal Party, the NDP party have left you. It's really only the Conservatives standing up for working families. And it may take some time to build trust, but I think there's a lot of work we can do together. So they may, they may not be union members.

They may be people who are part of the gig economy and don't make a lot of money. They may be people who don't necessarily have a lot of education and they may be people who don't vote right now. And what Aaron O'Toole is trying to say to those people is, I understand that you feel left behind and you're not getting ahead. And my party's making a shift here. We're taking into account that people's quality of life matters. He said this in his Canadian Club speech, when the most efficient outcome does not align with our national interest, a conservative government will ensure the national interest comes first.

Now, that may not sound like a barn burner, but what he's really saying is, let's put people first. Middle class Canada has been betrayed by the elites on every level. Political elites, financial elites, cultural elites. You know, maybe it sounds a little bit more like something Jagmeet Singh would say, or as some people have sort of pointed out, I think only half jokingly, like he's been called Bernie O'Toole, right? I mean, Bernie Sanders, he is not. And I want to get to that a little bit more in one moment. But first, you know, I think this also dovetails pretty naturally

with his stance on China. And can you talk to me a little bit about that as well? It really does, because that Labor Day video that I mentioned a moment ago, in it, Aaron O'Toole also makes references to bad trade deals. Part of the problem is big government, one that signs bad trade deals with the U.S. and countries like China. Which, again, the Conservatives and Aaron O'Toole in particular, you know, these are people who've been dedicating themselves to more free trade deals in the world. But one of the other very strong messages from Aaron O'Toole, and this is certainly true during his leadership and it even predates that, is raising concerns about China's role in the world and Canada's relationship

with China. And I will tell you, you know, Aaron O'Toole believes that his concerns about China, I'm sure, are very genuine. He also, though, very much understands that this is an issue that resonates well beyond his own party. He knows that a growing number of Canadians are uncomfortable with the might of China in the world the conservative party going forward in the next decade we have to look at what's best for canadian interests and i think that means a new approach on some things particularly china so what does this all have to do with workers part of this pushback that aaron o'toole is talking about is you know a little bit of pushback against china and maybe they've been taking away our jobs and making life worse for Canadians. He's also, as part of his broader

policy, talked about a Canada First policy. Under my leadership, Conservatives will introduce Canada First economic strategy, one that doesn't cater to elites and special interests. And of course, that's going to conjure some thoughts of something that we're familiar with south of the border, America first. Wise leaders always put the good of their own people and their own country first. The future does not belong to globalists. The future belongs to patriots. And again, the timing is interesting how all of this is dovetailing. At a time of a pandemic, when there are worries about supply chains and whatnot,

you can see the puzzle pieces fitting together for Erin O'Toole, right? If you've been left behind, we want to do more for you. We're going to put Canadians first. We're going to put Canada first. You know, we won't pussyfoot around with the Chinese regime. You start to see a bit of a vision there. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

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That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for money for couples. You know, I was watching on Tuesday night, his interview with Paul Wells and McLean's. They did sort of this talk. There was this one moment that I thought really encapsulated what he's trying to do here, what he's trying to say. There's only one party that wants to get pipelines built. There's only one party that wants to stand up for better trade deals with the United States

to take on the rise of communist China and their disruption of steel and aluminum trade. There's only one person standing up against the illegal rail blockades that were paralyzing this country, you know, just before COVID really, really hit. And that was the Conservative Party. I think it is so interesting because it really speaks to the core of the Conservative strategy here, right? The Conservatives developed this strategy thinking about people who are natural Conservative voters based on their demographics. And they know that some of those people might be union members or might not, as we've talked about already, but that probably they don't necessarily see themselves in some of the policies of the NDP, that some of the more, in the view of the conservatives, more social

justice-oriented messages that we hear from the NDP, that the NDP has really come to champion, that those messages aren't necessarily going to resonate with some of these voters who may simply have become disaffected or are continuing to vote NDP out of habit or whatnot. Aaron O'Toole's hoping that some of what he says there, whether it's about blockades or he has messages about political correctness and elites, that people are going to go, hey, yeah, I recognize that. And if you're suddenly offering me some sort of economic offering that is different, that if you're coming at this from a different approach and what he calls elitism, economic, political, cultural. You know, he brought up John A. McDonald and how his name had recently been wiped off a school. And, you know, this so-called cancel culture.

No debate, just a symbolic gesture that's not helping anyone. It's also not helping us learn from our history. Talk to me about what he's trying to accomplish there. also not helping us learn from our history. Talk to me about what he's trying to accomplish there. Well, this is, again, when we talk about the pieces of the puzzle that Aaron O'Toole is trying to build. Do you build a puzzle? I don't know if my metaphor is falling apart.

It's good, it's good. The puzzle that he is trying to piece together here. That's another important piece of all of it. Again, I would cast back, as somebody who has watched Aaron O'Toole very closely, who covered his leadership campaign very closely, I'd cast back to that leadership campaign. And I remember conversations I had with folks around him about what some of his most effective arguments were. And at that point, you have to think he's speaking directly to conservatives, right? He wants people who are card-carrying conservatives to vote for him as leader. Cancel culture was a

big one. This online cancel culture driven by the left is impacting free speech, impacting the principles that basically underscore our democracy. And it's time to stand up for them. I've been doing that. I think, though, that this is another policy that they really feel transcends the Conservative Party, that there are some aspects of, let's say, cancel culture, for instance, that make a lot of people uncomfortable who aren't necessarily Conservatives. If they are trying to reach people who feel left behind, the narrative all kind of fits together. What this comes down to, you know, every election, there is this fight over swing voters. And that's probably true everywhere. It's certainly true federally in Canada. Someone put it to me this way. We always

look at the pie chart, and there's the red piece of the pie and the blue piece of the pie and the orange piece of the pie, and I guess, you know, green and whatnot. And we just go, okay, how can we divide up this pie differently so that we get a bigger piece as conservatives? In the last election, if the conservatives had gotten 20 more seats, they would have, they would be in power right now. Well, interestingly, the conservatives in 2011 and 2015, they really got the same number of Canadians voting for them, essentially. What they have to do to win is do what Justin Trudeau did in 2015, which is get people who aren't voting to vote for you, right? The Conservatives are also saying, instead of trying to figure out how we can slice up the pie differently, let's grow the pie.

Maybe it's a bit of a tired metaphor, but you bring in more voters. And it is something that has succeeded for many Conservative movements in the Anglosphere. I mean, we've sort of, I feel like the specter of Donald Trump has been hanging over this conversation. That's an obvious example to us here in Canada. When we look at the way that Donald Trump has tried to appeal to people worried about their economic prospects, again, people who feel left behind. A Trump administration will lead a free world that is properly armed and funded, ending the theft of American jobs. Obviously, Trump is a bit of an incendiary example, but it's also true of Boris Johnson in the UK. We are going to unite and level up, unite and level up,

bringing together the whole of this incredible United Kingdom. The Conservatives look to Australia as well. They say there is plenty of evidence. They believe this isn't really actually these leaders building this trend. They are reacting to something that has happened in society, that there is this whole group of people who feel disaffected, left behind, that policies haven't been serving them, and that these people are ultimately a natural constituency in many ways for the Conservative Party, the way somebody put it to me.

As Conservatives, we actually, we believe in community, right? We believe in strong community, community organizations, be it church groups, be it sports teams, service clubs, all coming together and making a strong society. And unions are part of that. I come from a traditional Conservative background. Personal freedom, personal responsibility, helping your neighbor. But I also grew up in a working class community. There was a sense of loyalty to the hometown.

It's ingrained in me. I still drive a Buick. At the same time, I think a lot of people are viewing this, or certainly a significant portion, as Aaron O'Toole abandoning conservative economic orthodoxy. I think that that remains to be seen. Certainly the language is attracting a lot of attention. The question is, what is he going to do about it? Right. So talk to me a little bit more about that throughout. And let's loop back to what you said before that, you know, he's been labeled Bernie O'Toole, right? And so talk to me a little bit more about the reaction from conservatives. Yeah, I mean, I think there basically been three different reactions, conservative and beyond, that I'm tracking. One was a whole bunch of conservatives who are saying, heck yeah, we know we need more people to vote for us if we want to win and we want to win.

There are conservatives who are having the Bernie O'Toole reaction. Have you abandoned your principles? People who are, I think, disappointed in Aaron O'Toole, who don you abandoned your principles? People who are, I think, disappointed in Aaron O'Toole, who don't like what they're hearing. And then the third reaction is the Jerry Dias's of the world, who will say, well, I like it, but I don't believe it, right? People who are saying, look at your stance on anti-union bills in the past. And so then the question becomes, how is he going to back this up? You talked about that McLean's interview with Paul Wells. And Aaron O'Toole did say a couple of interesting things about putting some meat on the bones here. One, he didn't say what the policy would be going forward on, for instance, introducing similar legislation on unions about transparency and whatnot. He said those decisions, those discussions still have to happen. I don't make all these decisions all by myself. We are a party. We have to build trust, but that's what a new leader does,

Paul. And so we're going to try and forge new relations. And I'm glad you're asking questions about it. When people see what our motive is, I want Jerry's people to have jobs too. And so how can we work together? I don't see how he can do that. I mean, I don't see how he can say, he has been doing outreach. He has been speaking with union leaders. I think it will be very challenging for him to say, we want your support,

even if it's really the union members that he's hoping to get support from. It'll be challenging to say, we want your support. And at the same time, to go after in some sense. At the same time, we're doing this thing that is wildly impossible to do. Yeah. I mean, listen, politics is full of surprises.

And every time I think any political journalist makes a prediction, you sort of shudder. But I think that's a tricky one for him to proceed with. But the other thing that was so interesting was he did say we are going to have a concrete offering on this. Now, what is that going to be? I'm not even entirely sure that the Conservatives have worked that out yet, but there's something coming. And even the fact that he's doing these calls with various labour unions is intriguing to me. Catherine, do you think this is a good bet for him, for the Conservatives? I think the fundamental question of how do you get more people to vote for us is crucial.

I mean, really, it's crucial to every political party. I think we still have so many questions about how this is going to play out. I think it's a really interesting gambit. It's one that I look forward to covering and seeing how it plays out, whether or not it will succeed. Why don't I come back in a few months and we'll check in and see how it's going. That would be perfect. We would so love for you to come back sooner rather than later. Thank you so much. This conversation was just as fascinating as I had hoped that it would be. Thank you. Thanks, Jamie. I really enjoyed it too.

So some big news on an issue we've covered a lot on the show. There is a growing overdose crisis in Vancouver with over 300 deaths this year alone. It's on track to be the worst year on record. Yesterday, the city's mayor, Kennedy Stewart, announced that he will ask the federal government to approve a plan to decriminalize simple possession of illicit drugs in the city. We'll talk more about this on the show tomorrow and the people that such a policy would affect the most. That's it for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner and we'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.