Front Burner - Residential school survivors mourn after discovery of unmarked graves

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

An outpouring of grief and demands for accountability are following in the wake of a horrific discovery of unmarked graves of children at a former residential school in Kamloops, B.C. CBC’s Angela Sterritt reports.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem, brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Before we get started with today's episode, I want to give you a heads up. The story we're covering today is particularly grim. It involves the deaths of Indigenous children at the hands of the residential school system out of teddy bears and rows of tiny shoes. of tiny shoes. People gathered to beat drums and light candles to mourn the deaths of Indigenous children who fell victim to one of Canada's darkest national shames, the residential school

system. The public outcry came in the days following a horrific discovery, unmarked graves of children at a former residential school in Kamloops, BC. Over the next two days we'll be talking about the toxic legacy of colonialism and the continued dehumanization of Indigenous people in this country. And today we'll be hearing about how residential school survivors and their children are reacting to this news and demanding that action finally be taken. People in residential school, like my mom, and myself as a product of residential school, were always told, get over it.

But people need to know this is the truth of Canada. This is something that we've known, but now Canada can finally see. My colleague Angela Starrett is a reporter based in Vancouver and a member of the Gixxan Nation.

Hi, Angela. Thank you so much for making the time to talk to me today. Thanks for having me. So I want to start by acknowledging how difficult it is for many Indigenous people to hear news like this, especially survivors of the residential school system and their families and even reporters. I'm Nikki and I'm from Tecumseh. I'm a member from Tecumseh. It's hard. It's sad. It was devastating. It's hard. It's sad. It was devastating. My name is John Piero. I'm an elder that went to school here at the residential school. I also went to Williams Lake Residential School.

You know, you hear about the same things happening all the time, right? And it's so damn sad, I say. So how are you doing? Yeah, I keep on telling people for, you know, for survivors and for intergenerational survivors, and I think for many Indigenous people, this is just this incredible weight that has been put upon us now that we are carrying and talking about this. And I think somebody referred to this as the

sleeping giant of trauma. And, you know, Indigenous people have been living with this information for decades. But I think there's something to be said about when you're believed and you're collectively grieving or collectively experiencing the pain as a nation. And I think it's been really, really hard and really painful and a lot of worry for those who might not have the supports that they need. But also on the other side, it's been really important that in BC, we've like many Indigenous people here including myself are either they had their second dose or their first dose and so many people are are able to gather or able to socially distance gather things like that and so we've seen people

coming together for feasts or coming together to grieve and so that piece of it's been really important to see because as Indigenous people, that coming together and that connecting, even spiritually, with our ancestors who didn't make it, that piece has been really, really significant right now in terms of the healing that's going on. But I'm glad that I come here here and myself, I'm very respectful. I talk to people, doesn't matter who they are. And when I see people coming together like this at a time like this, you know, it makes me feel good. I'm really glad to hear that that's been able to

happen. Angela, can you take me through what was revealed last week? Yeah, so I mean, I guess I should say first off is that Indigenous people have known either from oral histories shared from their ancestors, from their parents, from their grandparents. And also through TRC documents that there's thousands of children that didn't make it home from residential school. And we know that the Tukumlups, the Shikwapmuk people started to attempt to do their own investigation into how many children didn't make it home from the Kamloops Indian Residential School around the 2000s. So the community wasn't able to tell me what type of preliminary searching they did at that time. However, that sort of guided what they did last week, which was using this ground-penetrating radar to do this preliminary search.

So these new findings are preliminary, meaning that a report from the ground penetrating radar specialist will come out in mid-June. And that number 215 was verbally provided from the specialist to the nation. And so once that report comes out in June, I'm told there will most likely be an archaeological dig. And that number may rise or lower. We don't know that yet. And we might not know that for some time. But the community will then, you know, strategize about how to identify the children. And there are, of course, questions now about accountability. The band also spoke with me on Wednesday and Thursday, and told me that they had reached out and met with a coroner

and we we don't have any information about the coroner but we they will be in contact with the coroner and finding out more about the children who attended this school and didn't make it home. And I know that you you spoke also with Tukumlups to Shekwetmc First Nation Chief, or Kukpi, Roseanne Casimir. And what did she tell you about how the community is dealing with this really difficult discovery? Yeah, that's right. I spoke with Kukpi Roseanne Casimir on Thursday, and she was like so many people, you know, really in a state of shock about hearing this earth-shattering news. in a state of shock about hearing this earth-shattering news. You know, she talked to me about how devastating it was for her as a parent and a grandparent.

Because when you look at your own child, you want the world for them. It was devastating. It was truly devastating and brought tears to my eyes. You know, they've known that there were children who died at the school based on survivor accounts. But hearing these preliminary numbers really laid bare this truth. And her heart was mostly with the survivors, you know, some who had shared really horrific stories of digging graves as children for their relatives and friends, also children who didn't survive the atrocities at residential school. And so her mind was really with them

and doing what she could as a leader to provide them with supports like counselling. And to know that, you know, these are children that are here within these grounds. And that, you know, these are children that are here within these grounds. And that, you know, for me, it's like they never lived their lives to the fullest. And knowing the history behind the residential school and, you know, the, you know, the truth and reconciliation and knowing that, you know, Indigenous children, you know, were sent to school and, you know, with school in Kamloops, it's mentioned specifically in the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

And what do we know about this particular school and what went on there? Right. So the Kamloops Indian Residential School operated from 1890 to 1978. It was run for some time by the Roman Catholic Church, and it was actually the largest school in the Indian Affairs residential school system. And Indigenous children came to the school, not just from the local area, but from all over British Columbia. So, you know, speaking earlier today just about how widespread the impact of this is, you know, children who might be on Vancouver Island and children who might be living in more northern parts of the province.

The federal government took over the school in 1969 and it remained as a residence for Indigenous children attending day schools. Now, we know from documents and oral stories that priests, nuns and other administrators at the Kamloops Indian Residential School beat and sexually abused the Indigenous children, you know, some for several years on end. We know that the children were deeply malnourished and living in these really harsh, unsafe conditions. One of the things that I've read about in doing my research about the school is about the particular severity of the punishment. You know, some people talked about it being how it had bordered on being sadistic. They talked about the priests and nuns losing control when they were disciplining

children, throwing them against the walls and the floor. I read one really, really heartbreaking story about how they were trying to teach these young boys not to fight. So they put them in a boxing ring and made them fight until they were literally fighting each other on their knees. Just horrific. Other stories about how children would come home from Christmas and bring, you know, a little totem pole from their parents and would, the nuns and the priests would say that's devilry and take it away from them. And that went along with, you know, as we've heard many stories across this country about children literally having the language and the culture

beaten out of them. We already know at the school that the TRC names about 53 children who died at the Kamloops Indian Residential School, many of those deaths in the 1940s and the 1960s. And we don't know yet if those children's remains will be among some of those who were found by the ground-penetrating radar specialist just last week. And as you mentioned, this is one of many schools that was operating across the country. For those listening and who aren't familiar with the history of the residential school system in Canada, it was set up by the federal government in the late 1800s, run by churches with the goal of total cultural assimilation. About 150,000 Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families. The Truth and Reconciliation

Commission spent a lot of time on this issue. And what do we know about how children in residential schools died in a broad sense? Right, such a heartbreaking piece of the story to explore. You know, the TRC has already reported thousands of deaths of children at residential school with many having died from malnourishment, from tuberculosis, from pneumonia and influenza. And a lot of the latter parts of that, so the disease, was due to the poor conditions and the treatment they experienced in the school. So, you know, the dilapidated buildings they lived in, the overcrowding, and of course the brutal punishment, including beatings and sexual abuse that took place where the children lived in these immense levels of stress. We know that the children also died by suicide as young as nine years old

you know trying to escape the school and the punishment and the conditions that they were living within. We also know that some ran away and died by exposure or accidents. But we actually do not know how a lot of the students died because records were destroyed by the federal government and the schools. And in many cases, they were just not reported at all to begin with. So about a third of the deaths, the government or the schools did not name the student. And about half of the deaths, the government and the schools did not name the student and about half of the deaths, the government and the schools did not record the cause of death. And for most of the history of the schools, the practice was not to send the bodies of the students who died at the

schools to their home communities. And that was to keep the cost down. And so, you know, the children were living in these horrible conditions and treated with such disregard in their lives, but also in their deaths. And I should say the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's Missing Children Project, which has been, you know, working to create a register of children who died at residential school, has so far documented more than 4,100 children. And these unmarked graves, have there been others found across the country? Yes, in several schools. There was more than 100 residential schools across the country.

And we know that the TRC did request $1.5 million in funding to search for those unmarked graves in 2009, but that funding was denied by Ottawa. So just like the Kamloops Indian Residential School, we're seeing sort of this piecemeal approach and the nations having to fundraise money on their own, just like the Kamloops Deshikotmuk had to, to search to find the children or the remains of the children who are in these unmarked graves. And so that's something we're seeing right across the country. And we've heard of these unmarked graves being underneath residential schools, on the school property, on adjacent properties to the school or surrounding the school. So this is not an isolated incident. Absolutely. This was a common practice by the residential schools and the federal government since the inception of the schools.

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vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Angela, I think for people listening, it might be very difficult to understand why there are so many unanswered questions still here. You know, isn't finding all the unmarked graves and identifying those who have died central to the reconciliation process? So, you know, why hasn't the necessary work been done here in Canada? I know you mentioned a request for funding being previously denied, but why hasn't more been done here? I mean, that's a really good question. And that's maybe a question for the federal government or the Catholic Church. You know, I mean, we even know that the Pope has refused to apologize for this. And I think that's something that Indigenous people are talking a lot about

right now is where is the accountability? We're hearing a lot from Ottawa of apologies from Indigenous affairs and from the Prime Minister. As a dad, I can't imagine what it would feel like to have my kids taken away from me. And as Prime Minister, I'm appalled by the shameful policy that stole Indigenous children from their communities. Our thoughts are with Te K'amlups, Te Su'witmuk, First Nation, and with all Indigenous communities across Canada. First Nation and with all Indigenous communities across Canada. You know, thoughts and prayers from a lot of different bodies who I think Indigenous people are hoping to see a different type of accountability from. So remember that the Truth

and Reconciliation Commission had a restricted mandate in that it had no subpoena powers to compel unwilling witnesses to give testimony. And none of the federal government representatives, heads of churches, priests or nuns, as part of that process were held accountable for what they did to Indigenous children, including potentially killing them. And so I really think that's where we're going to see the conversation go to, you know, in the next couple of days is what is the next piece of action from the federal government and from the church? And will this just be, you know, another apology? Right. And probably worth noting here, as part of the residential school settlement agreement, the government, I believe, located more than 5,000 alleged abusers, right? Both former employees and students who were still alive as of 2016, which I also think really underscores how this is not some dark past chapter in our history.

dark past chapter in our history. On Monday, the opposition parties, the NDP and the Conservatives, have called for an emergency debate. And what we have to commit to is that in face, in light of this genocide, Canada has to make some real tough decisions about our commitment to remedying this injustice. It's not enough to just reflect on the pain of this injustice. For the federal government, it has to be a responsibility

to do something about it. To talk about next steps, what do you make of that? Yeah, I mean, I think these conversations are important, and it's important for the opposition to listen to survivors about what they want to see. And it's important for us to look beyond thoughts and prayers. I mean, I think a lot of Indigenous people are very cynical. But I think this has opened up a really different conversation where people are wanting to move beyond being believed and being heard. They want justice for their loved ones. Right. The prime minister noted on Monday that this wasn't an exception or an isolated incident, that we're not going to hide from these facts.

And he said that he will be talking directly with his ministers about the next and future steps. But I also want to point out that when it comes to the Liberal government, it's interesting to note the difference between rhetoric versus action. So for instance, the federal government has spent millions of dollars fighting residential school survivors in Ontario court over the last decade. And what does that say to survivors and Indigenous people in Canada? Yeah, that is a really important point because there's a few things when it comes to the Liberal government fighting Indigenous people in court. So,

you know, Ottawa has spent $3.2 million fighting St. Anne's residential school survivors in court since 2013. They've been fighting Cindy Blackstock, who's just trying to get Indigenous children on reserve the same rights and the same funding as, you know, those living off reserve. They've been fighting her on that for years. And if the government seriously owns its part in the deaths of these 215 children and the deaths and harms of many others, then it needs to stop doing what it's doing, which is apartheid service delivery on reserve, where people in some communities cannot even get a clean glass of water. And they need to drop their litigation against First Nations children and survivors.

The federal government's also been fighting Indigenous people on land claims. So when we're talking about the larger project of colonization in Canada, which residential school was such a significant part of, when we're talking about justice for those survivors, when we're talking about how colonization is continuing today, you know, we're not just talking about this in past tense, we're talking about this as today. We're also hearing Indigenous people say, look, you know, the federal government and the provincial government in BC, at least, and in provinces across the country are still apprehending Indigenous children in mass,

you know, over-representated in some provinces significantly. What does that mean to the legacy of residential school, the legacy of colonization? And we see a lot of talk about reconciliation and healing and all of this but then we see this large amount of money still fighting Indigenous people on the ground and it gives Indigenous people a lot of pause about where we're at in our society and that's why I think this discussion about the children who didn't make it home is so significant, because we also largely heard a number of politicians and journalists say there's absolutely no way residential school or the missing and murdered Indigenous women can be tantamount or concluded with the term genocide. with the term genocide. You know, when we're talking about upwards of 20 to 50% of residential school children having died there, I think people are going to have to really rethink

the relationship that they have with this country and the understanding that we have of how this nation was built and continues to be built. And I think people are really looking for not just politicians, but the public to really move that dial in terms of how we think about Indigenous people and how Indigenous people have really been dehumanized and continue to be dehumanized to this day. Angela, and just on the point of indigenous people being dehumanized I just want to say that tomorrow

on the show we're going to be talking about Joyce Echaquan the 37 year old indigenous woman who died after being mistreated and discriminated against by hospital staff in Quebec and so I do hope that everyone listening will tune into that important conversation as well Angela I really want to thank you for this I I'm really, really grateful that you took the time to speak with us today. Thank you from my heart for having me. I really appreciate you engaging in this discussion. It's really important. Okay, so before we say goodbye, I'd like to point to a couple resources. A National Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support for former students and those affected.

You can access emotional and crisis referral services by calling the 24-hour National Crisis Line at 1-866-925-4419. Crisis Line, Society provides a First Nations and Indigenous specific crisis toll-free line 24-7, 1-800-588-8717 or online at kuu-uscrisisline.com. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll talk to you tomorrow.