Front Burner - Royal family tested by Meghan Markle and Prince Harry’s ‘Megxit’

Episode Date: January 13, 2020

Today the top members of the royal family will meet to discuss Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s future role inside the British monarchy. It’s the first time the Duke of Sussex will be in the same room as his grandmother, the Queen, since the couple announced plans to step back as senior royals, gain financial independence, and split their time between Britain and North America. There’s a lot of anger in the United Kingdom about this, fueled by reports that the Queen was surprised by the news. So, today on Front Burner, we talk ‘Megxit” with former BBC royal correspondent Peter Hunt. He explains what the announcement means for the future of the British monarchy and what Canada has to do with it.

This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Perhaps no one expected the extraordinary statements released tonight. It's momentous. It has no precedent in modern times. I don't know about you, but I just got caught up on Netflix's The Crown, and I'm quite certain that this is going to be the central storyline of an upcoming season, maybe the best season yet. Some of the tabloids are calling the two the rogue royals and describing the move as Mexit. Harry and Meghan didn't consult with any of their relatives before releasing that statement. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are planning to step describing the move as Mexit. Harry and Meghan didn't consult with any of their relatives

before releasing that statement. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are planning to step back as senior royals. They're looking to gain financial independence and they plan on splitting their time between Britain and North America. There's a lot of speculation right now that their second home base will be in Canada. Meghan is reportedly on Vancouver Island with her son Archie while Harry deals with this fallout back home. There's a lot of anger about this in the United Kingdom,

fueled by reports that the Queen was sideswiped by the news. If you listen to some royal watchers, this could even threaten the future of the monarchy. Peter Hunt was a longtime BBC royal correspondent. He's with me now from London to sort through all of this. This is Frontburner, the Megxit edition. Hi, Peter. Hi. So we're talking late Sunday, but I know on Monday when this airs today, Prince Harry is sitting down with his grandmother, the Queen and other senior members of the British royal family,

Prince William and Prince Charles. This is the first time they are all meeting face to face since the announcement. There will be complex details to thrash out. How much official royal work the Sussexes will do in the UK and overseas. How much money they might receive from the Prince of Wales once their public funding is cut. And what's expected to come from this summit? I think it's being called the Sandringham Summit. Well, I'm calling it the Sandringham Summit, so I hope that catches on.

Oh, perfect. Even though someone else wanted to do it as the Sandringham Sussexes Summit or the Sussexes Summit at Sandringham. But I think too many S's. But I suppose the first thing to say is it's pretty extraordinary. It's taken five days just to get to this moment. You'd have thought that Harry would have wanted to seen his grandmother since clearly he'd really, you know, angered her with the way things went in terms of his announcement more quickly. angered her with the way things went in terms of his announcement more quickly but I guess it shows you that they're not like any other family I think that's quite a indication really of the royal family is uniquely different to how we may operate within our families I don't think we can expect them to be some clear definite outcome I think what they'll try and come up with is an indication of the way ahead uh caveat though of course with that is that if Harry, and I'm assuming Meghan will be on the phone from Canada, if they just don't like what is on the table, it is, I guess, not impossible that they'll just walk away from the whole thing.

I think it's unlikely, but given that I didn't think we'd end up where we are now so quickly, I don't think we can rule it out. You know, you mentioned that the Queen was disappointed. And, you know, there have been all of these reports about how she was sideswiped by this announcement, how Prince Charles and William are furious. Multiple sources at the palace have told the BBC that no members of the royal family were consulted about this by Harry and Meghan. I'm also seeing reports that Oprah and the Obamas are advising Harry and Meghan, and the Obamas and Oprah have denied this. But a lot of this seems to be connected to anonymous sources. And as somebody who covered this for so long for the BBC, how do you wade through what's true and what's not in a situation like this?

I think what we can accept is as close aversion to the truth as possible is that Harry and Meghan clearly have been thinking about this for some time. It's clear that that was communicated to Charles and the Queen as well, and obviously William, over a period of time, over a period of time, over recent weeks. I think it's also clear that what that side said the sort of the family side said is okay okay but you know we need a bit more time with this and i think what is crystal clear is that on the day that they chose to announce they basically were trying to bounce their family they went on to say we intend to step back as senior members

of the royal family and work to become financially independent while continuing to fully support her majesty the queen and that's what's caused the irritation and the pain they were presenting them with a fait accompli they were saying this is the way that we are going to be royals in the future and that is what engendered the the irritation and the anger and the hurt right Over many decades, the royals have washed plenty of their dirty linen in public, but it's pretty rare for the Queen to do so. It's pretty unusual. Well, it's more than pretty unusual. It is strikingly unusual for the statement to come out from Harry and Meghan and then an hour, an hour and a half later for that statement from

Buckingham Palace to come out, which was basically saying, you know, hold your horses. This isn't a done deal and this can't happen that quickly. Right. The statement essentially said, we understand their desire to take a different approach. But these are complicated issues that will take time to work through. Why is this such a complicated issue? Well, if they were just to walk away, it wouldn't be complicated. What has made it complicated is their attempt to sort of have a third way what the critics are saying their attempt to have their cake and eat it that's what makes it terribly complicated because they're envisaging a future and again even when you read all of the details on the website there isn't there's there's plenty that's missing in terms of concrete facts

and i suppose what my concern is is that a lot of what is on their website, I suspect, was written by people who don't have a deep understanding of the institution that is the British monarchy. The website is Harry and Meghan explaining how they think their new roles are going to work. Splitting time between North America and the UK, staying in their newly renovated Frogmore Cottage with their security still paid for by the taxpayer. Frogmore Cottage with their security still paid for by the taxpayer. So the challenge will be, you know, how do you go from being Harry and Meghan on a Monday where you're in, let's say, the United States of America representing the Queen, flying the flag for Britain, and then on Tuesday, you're private or sort of semi-private Harry and Meghan, and you're earning money for yourselves, representing company x or representing company y so that's that's the sort of that's the real problem the real the what was

one of the many many many many problems but it's how does the uk taxpayer feel about all of this and how great is the risk that in their desire to earn money and when we talk about money it's we're talking about eye-watering sums of money that they could potentially earn everyone knows that um but what is the risk that those commercial deals may damage the institution of the monarchy and i suppose if you if we step back from it if you let's say prince charles because the queen doesn't travel anymore but if if the prince of wales goes on an official state visit to the United States of America, he is there to fly the flag for the United Kingdom. Right. Under this deal for Harry and Meghan, if they go to the United States of America and they meet a whole range of people, the concern will be and the focus, the intense focus the media in the future might well be on.

Well, if they've met Mr. or Mrs. X, are they also trying to not only fly the flag for the UK, but help themselves with any deals or any money they need to earn in the future? That's the really tricky, one of the many tricky areas for them. And can you give me some examples of other tricky areas for them? Oh, there's rather a lot. Maybe like your top two or three. Yeah, let's go for the top two. In addition to this money issue. In addition to those ones.

I think it's the whole thing of funding. Because at the moment they have a little bit of sort of UK taxpayer money. And a large bit, the vast bulk of the rest of the money they get comes from their father for his father from harry's father the prince of wales prince charles he has the private estate the duchy of cornwall that funds the uh the heir to the british throne so will charles and it's roughly five million sterling five million pounds uk pounds split right we don't know how between um harry and william so will charles continue to fund them when half the year let's say they're not doing royal things in the uk um then if you go to the

uk taxpayer the concern for them is that 2.4 million pounds of you know uk sterling money was spent on their accommodation in windsor that now one assumes can be empty uh half the year and the other i think the other really key potentially toxic thing for the british public is that uh the taxpayer pays an eye-watering but undisclosed sum on their security i mean the taxpayer continue to pay that again if they are half the year one assumes in in in canada or was so they said north america but well so So these will be some of the thorny issues that they're going to be working through during this Sandringham summit today?

Yes, just some of them, yeah. Just some of them. They may end up burning the midnight oil and going into Tuesday. It'll be like sort of what the UK is very familiar to is the Brexit talks. After the Brexit talks, we've now got this summit, but yes. Right, right.

And the UK papers are calling this Megxit. So I suppose there are a lot of parallels here. Yeah, but it's interesting that the use of the word Megxit, because of course, then there's a there's a sort of backlash against that in the UK, where they say, why are we just focusing on Meghan? And it's, you know, Harry's, it's great. These are all quite interesting areas, aren't they? Well, I want to talk to you about that a little bit today, which I think gets at perhaps the root of why they want to step back in the first place. You know, Harry and Meghan have both expressed their disappointment with the media. And Meghan, when she was doing that documentary, when they were touring Africa, she said that she expected it to be difficult, but fair.

If I do something wrong, I'd be the first one to go, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I would never do that. But when people are saying things that are just untrue, and they're being told they're untrue, but they're allowed to still say them, I don't know anybody in the world that would feel like that's okay. And that's different than just scrutiny. Harry has been very negative towards the media, saying that there have been like racial overtones, racism directed towards his wife. Do they have a point?

In terms of the coverage? Well, I think, I mean, Harry has been particularly difficult for them and maybe more difficult for them than it has for other royals like Prince William and Kate, for example. Well, Harry has always, always, always struggled with the media. He and you can understand where he's coming from. I guess he blames the media for his mother's death. And now I have a family to protect. Everything that she went through and what happened to her is incredibly raw every single day.

And that's not me being paranoid. That's just me not wanting a repeat of the past. And if anybody else knew what I knew, be it a father, be it a husband, be it anyone, you'd probably be doing exactly what I'm doing as well. I mean, it's a pretty hard place to move from, age 12, if that is your belief, to reach an accommodation. And so what he and William have tried to do as they've grown up with the advice of all their advisors is to say, OK, I'll try and I'll try and hide my sort of repulsion and exploit this intense interest in me to switch it to the issues that I'm passionate about. And they did that to brilliant effect with the whole campaign about mental health. We do not want prejudice and fear to stand in the way of people getting the help that they need. Heads Together wants

to get people talking. The more we talk about mental health, the more normal the topic becomes. And William is continuing as he gets older to accept he's just it's, you know, it's a symbiotic relationship. And he's just got to put up with it. I mean, look at how much Charles put up with. But I think for Harry, as you were saying, I think the thing that's just pushed him back into this sort of visceral hatred. I mean, Harry is somebody who not only I don't know if it's still the case, but it certainly used to be the case that not only would he read the articles on an online coverage, he'd read the comments below. And I think the minute you start reading into comments, you're in a not very good place. And so he'd read that. And would he read the articles on an online coverage, he'd read the comments below. And I think the minute you start reading into comments, you're in a not very good place. And so he'd read that. And then he would take up issues that he had read with the reporters if

he met them subsequently at receptions that I attended. But I think the thing that's pushed him back into his sort of where he was at 12 and that utter hatred around the time, those days and weeks after his mum died is, is, as you say, the coverage of Meghan. And he has called out more than once his belief that she has been subjected to a wave of abuse and harassment. I will not be bullied into playing a game that killed my mum. The racial undertones, he has said, of some newspaper articles. And fundamentally, he doesn't want history to repeat itself. He doesn't want Meghan to be pursued in the same way as Diana. But in answer to your question about whether it's right or wrong.

Yeah, yeah. Do you think they have a point? You know, I can't help but notice some of this coverage. You know, the Daily Mail, a column talking about how Meghan is straight out of Compton. And, you know, another column in another paper about how she has exotic DNA. This is racist. Ethel Hirsch wrote a really interesting piece in the New York Times, an op-ed,

entitled Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out. It's racism. Many people of color in Britain are also considering whether this is a healthy place to raise a family at the moment. These are unprecedented times where a really unhealthy, toxic, and often overtly hostile narrative has absolutely taken hold of large parts of our national debate. And, you know, there are also these, like, vicious pieces.

You know, she says that she likes avocados, and all of a sudden there's an article in the British tabloids about how avocados, her favorite fruit, spur human rights abuses or a piece about how she's holding her baby bump too much during her pregnancy. Well, I think that there were certainly, as you've just articulated, absolute examples of where there were racial undertones in the coverage i suppose what the defenders of uh these tabloids you're talking about would say is that so they would argue that they are now in a place where they they can't hear any criticism and that they want to control uh like a celebrity controls their image and how they put themselves out so So another aspect of their plans to loosen their

bonds to the British monarchy is changing how reporters cover them, which is very much what a sort of a Beyonce might do, you know, broadcasting over the heads of the media, direct to the public through Instagram. It's slightly more challenging as to whether an active member of the senior royal family can do that. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Do you think there have been some fair criticisms of the couple?

Because I suppose the other side of this is, you know, you have a pretty good. Well, I think that the fundamental area where they probably fell down is in there, the birth of Archie was that there is a sort of conventional way of doing it. And they chose not to do it that way. Like announcing the godparents and announcing where she gave birth. Yeah. Yeah. In a statement, we have heard that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are said to be very grateful for the goodwill that they've received. But it goes on to say that their royal highnesses have taken a personal decision to keep the plans

around the arrival of their baby private. And in essence, coming as close as you can to sort of misleading people by letting it sort of hang out there and float out there that she was doing a home birth it presumably one has to assume in order to throw people off the birth off the scent that um she was going to give birth in the hospital she gave birth in but what what i think they and their advisors and again this comes back to a point i was making earlier about sometimes i think there are people around them who don't have an intimate understanding of the how the monarchy works i mean you know births in the uk you always have to register where you the child was born so it was always going to be out

in the public domain um where the birth was so i think that i think that was unnecessary uh and just as an irritant but it just it it is part and parcel of this growing inability of Harry to put up with it and to cope with it. And I mean, I remember, you know, I've had more than one conversation with him where he said to me, you know, I want to lead a normal life. But I mean, that's just a desire that's not deliverable when your grandmother is, you know, head of state to Canada, the UK and 14 other countries. And your parents were Charles and Diana, Princess of Wales. And I mean, you know, perhaps your life is also pretty extraordinary, too. And like there are positive things that come with that as well. I imagine that's what some people or many people in the UK think.

What do people in the UK think? You know, they accept that they have all of these young royals have a very privileged life. But I've always felt that with Harry and William, they cut them an extraordinary level of slack. And not least because I think anyone of a certain age, that moment when Harry 12, William 15, walk behind their mother's coffin with a wreath with the word mummy written on it. And behind her two sons, who are said to have chosen for themselves to walk in this procession, daunting particularly for the young 12-year-old, soon to be 13, Prince Harry.

I think that's just seared on our consciousness. And I think as a result of that moment, I think people are very, very, very forgiving. And so are they being forgiving of Harry right now? Do they understand where he's coming from? Well, I think it depends. I mean, if you look at the press, they're not very forgiving. Last ways of the tabloid press, there seems to be a generational divide so i think older generation would question whether or not there are sort of not not focusing on the duty uh which they see as sort of you know they're in spades within the queen at 93 but i think a younger generation would say well if it's not working then they they uh they need to do something about it. I think it's a bit rich, really.

They've got married, it's been paid for, it's done, and now all of a sudden they don't want to be senior anymore. You can't just be a royal and then decide not to be. She should have known what she was getting into to start off with, but if he wants to be out of the limelight, I think it's the best way to do it. Just basically leave the poor lad alone. But good on him, man. If he wants to do something that's different

to what his normal lifestyle is, then why not? Everyone deserves a chance, you know what I mean? I suppose the other thing I ought to just say is that, you know, we sort of talked about, haven't we, about the relationships and everything. I mean, the whole thing is actually pretty desperately sad. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do we know just how bad it's gotten between the family members?

I think it's got very bad between William and Harry. And that's really sad, actually, because I always remember when I was broadcasting for the BBC, you know, the people I would talk to would always say, you know, they get on really well. And then they would pause and they'd say that, you know, that's not normal in the Windsors. If you look at Charles, he doesn't have that close a relationship with his siblings. And so William and Harry were different. That was then, but now I think even before Meghan arrived on the scene, they were just not getting on as well as they could have been. And that has now totally fractured and is a contributory factor

to why this Sandringham summit will be so difficult to come up with a solution. I mean, they'll be focused on getting a solution, but the hurt is there. That sadness at the rift that has grown between the brothers is echoed by the Duke of Cambridge. The Sunday Times reports he's told a friend, I've put my arm around my brother all our lives and I can't do that anymore. We're separate entities. I'm sad about that. All I can do is try and support them and hope that the time comes when we're all singing from the same page. Do you think that it's possible, though, that something positive could come out of this?

You know, maybe with some time this could be seen as a really positive thing for the institution itself? It did just strike me, actually, that this could be a moment. Institutions have moments. And if Charles, the Queen, and William can be visionary, and if they can rise above the considerable hurt that they are feeling and rise above the sort of fractionalism that exists between the sort of varying competing households, I think they could, just could, deliver something as a result of sort of, you know, this opportunity provided by Meghan and Harry to sort of deliver something different for younger royals. But I'm not really holding my breath. Why? Why are you not holding your breath?

You know, it's really complicated for these three, because as well as those sort of fractured familial ties, you know, and this is a grandmother, this is a brother, this is a father, who all get the difficulty that Harry is at and the strains it's putting on his mental health. They are also sort of custodians of a dynasty. And, you know, this is a sort of dangerous moment for that dynasty and that institution. And so, of course, the challenge for the monarchy is if they push Harry and Meghan too far and they lose them and they walk off, actually they could be the losers. The British monarchy could be the losers. Because what Harry and Meghan do is that they reach people that hadn't been reached before. You know, it was a very white institution. And suddenly with Meghan's arrival, this all-white family of influence suddenly began to look a bit more like modern

Britain. And so if they go, they'll lose that. And that interest obviously wasn't just in the UK, wasn't just in North America, it was across the Commonwealth, you know, all 53 countries. Peter Hunt, thank you so much for this conversation and for your perspective. Thank you. And thank you for having me on. OK, that's all for today. But before I let you go, I want to return to the tragedy of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752. On Sunday, the Prime Minister attended a vigil in Edmonton to mourn the loss of the victims. All Canadians were shocked and outraged

to learn that it had been brought down by an Iranian missile. This tragedy struck our Iranian-Canadian community, leaving cities like Edmonton reeling. But this was truly a Canadian tragedy. 57 Canadians were on board that plane. 138 people were bound for this country. We're working on another episode following Iran's admission they shot down the plane accidentally, they say,

and in light of all the protests we're now seeing in Iran. We'll have more for you on that this week, so please stay tuned. I'm Jamie Poisson. This is FrontBurner. Thank you so much for listening and talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.