Front Burner - Ryan Reynolds scores with Wrexham soccer gambit

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Two years ago, Deadpool star Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney, the creator and star of the show, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, bought Wrexham AFC. The small Welsh soccer team had been languishing in the lowest possible division of football in the U.K. This week, the team celebrated a triumphant victory that earned it promotion out of the game’s backwater. On this episode, Richard Sutcliffe, a writer for The Athletic covering Wrexham AFC, discusses how the Hollywood touch has helped turn the relatively obscure team into a global sensation. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Alex Panetta, in for Jamie Poisson. This is one of the oldest sports teams in the world, Wrexham AFC. And for the past 15 years, it's been pretty bad. The team has languished in the lowest-ranking league in English football.

Then, two years ago, things started looking up for Wrexham. Two guys from Hollywood, with no connection to the community, in fact, no connection to soccer, showed up with a big plan and with reality TV cameras. Hello, my name is Rob McElhoney. My name is Ryan Reynolds. Our new show on FX is called Welcome to Wrexham. And earlier this year, we became owners of the football club in Wrexham.

I wake up and the first thing I think is, have we really been taken over by two Hollywood superstars? Has Deadpool really bought Wrexham Football Club? You never think somebody from 6,000 miles away will come and do this. And if Ryan Reynolds were here right now, what would you say to him?

Oh, thank you very much. Their plan? To buy a lower league team and in time, to grow it into a global force. To have it move up through the more competitive leagues, eventually all the way

to the world-class Premier League. And to be recording it all, making a TV show out of it. And so last Saturday was a big day. With a win, the team would move up one league into the second worst league in the UK. Only looking to wriggle away and get it shot. Special goal on Wrexham's big day. The game ended with an emotional, tearful embrace between Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhaney in the stands. The team pulled it off,

and joyful celebrations washed over this town in northern Wales. Wrexham promotes it to the EFL. They are National League champions. A sprinkling of Hollywood stardust that has helped make this possible. One thing that's running through my head over and over again is people said at the beginning, why Wrexham? Why Wrexham? This is exactly why Wrexham. I wouldn't have imagined anyone coming here when I was a kid. When I was young, everyone wanted to get out.

I love Rob and I love Ryan. I love them both. Richard Sutcliffe is a writer with The Athletic with a special assignment, a unique assignment for an international website, to cover a fifth division club. Wrexham AFC is his beat. He's been following the team's recent triumphs, and he's here to walk me through how a touch of celebrity stardust transformed a tiny football club. Hi, Richard. Hi there.

Well, Richard, I want to start by asking you to take us to Wrexham. Paint a bit of a picture for me. It's a historic working class city, still calls itself a town. And the Reynolds documentary shows images of its industrial decline. So what's the story of this community? Absolutely. Yeah. Back in the day, it was a real powerhouse of a town, you know, built on mining and steel. And like a lot of towns, you know, across the UK, you know, particularly in the north of the UK, you know, Really proud, proud heritage to it. It's the third oldest professional club in the world. It's the oldest club in Wales.

And it plays at the Cairás, or the race course in English, which is the oldest international stadium still in use anywhere in the world. And for many, many years, Wrexham were Wales' best club. But it hit hard times you know both those industries declined and obviously towns when the principal employer goes that way you know it has some tough years and it's had some tough years you know I'd say probably the last 20-30 years really as a town and that sort of spread to the football club. But by the very early 80s,

Wrexham became a very depressed town with incredibly high levels of unemployment. The football club was impacted by hard times as well. In a small place,

the fortunes of the town and its team are inextricably intertwined. The two absolutely depend upon one another. Wrexham is a town that... They've been out of the football league for 15 years, but they were struggling a little bit before that as well.

When there's not a lot of money around in a town, then it's difficult as a football club to raise the funds you need to prosper. So yeah, it hit real hard times. The fans had had to step in and save the club, well, two or three times, to be honest, raise money. And then they actually took over the club, the Supporters Trust, and they kept it going for sort of nine ten years but it was treading water at best i'd say as a as a football club it was just sort of circling the drain really if we're being honest and just just keeping out of the uh out of trouble but i think eventually

it would have popped down that drain uh if he hadn't have had the outside investment that obviously came in the you know the persona that it did. Amazing. So the fans actually ended up owning the team. So take me back to late 2020. The COVID pandemic is still at its height. Wrexham AFC is struggling. And along come out of nowhere, these two TV and movie stars. You've got Rob McElhaney, the creator and star of the show, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And Ryan Reynolds. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds. So what's the reaction in Wrexham? Incredulity, I would have thought. People didn't believe it initially.

I'm hoping this is not some big publicity stunt. It's probably just a joke on Twitter. We heard it all before, so it'll go tits up, 100%. And then when it emerged that, yeah, these two guys are trying to buy the club, the question was, why Wrexham? Don't get me wrong, if the intentions are good and to move the club forward, then fantastic.

But we need to know why Wrexham. You know, there was a lot of scepticism. And quite rightly as well, because obviously these guys are coming, they've got no previous connection with Wrexham or even Wales. So if they're coming from the outside, there was talk obviously of a documentary that might accompany them buying the club. And it was one of these where the fans

have been hurt so many times by bad owners. Like I said, the big question was, why Wrexham? And people couldn't get past that initially because, you know, why would they come in? Why would, like you say, these two guys who were hugely successful in their own field,

but lived sort of three, four, 5,000 miles away, why would they come to Wrexham? Yeah, well, and I'm reading about not only these guys, but these other A-list celebrity visits to Wrexham. People are flocking in purely because of who owns the team now. I've seen pictures of the Ant-Man star, Paul Rudd, before the last game, drinking beer out of a plastic cup in the pub. Will Farrell made the trip in February. He was also at the pub. I think it'll be a low-scoring affair. 11-2.

What are these visits like, and what effect does it have on the town? Yeah, it's the only time in sports journalism where I get to a game, and then you try and find out, is anybody famous coming? Like you say, you don't get Will Ferrell. You don't get Paul Wood. We've had stars from The Crown, the Netflix series.

Rob McElhenney's fellow cast members, always sunny. They came to the Oval game recently. It doesn't happen. It might happen maybe at the Premier League game at Arsenal or Chelsea, but it certainly doesn't happen in the fifth division. And when Will Ferrell came across, I was lucky enough, I was offered the chance to spend the day with him and his friends

who came across. Things like that just don't happen. What was that like? You got to spend the day, you got to hang out with Will Ferrell. What's he like? Yes. Well, it just sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? But that's what Wrexham is at the moment.

It was fantastic. He came across with four of his oldest pals, really. They were either guys who had been to school. They were really good guys. Guys who he'd either been to school with or he'd met them in college, you know, in his early 20s, sort of late teens. And they'd obviously been pals for 30, 40 years,

all taking the mickey out of each other but they were fascinated by the story i had lunch with them so we had a big lunch in the in the lounge before the game and what really got them and what has really actually got rob and ryan is the this this promotion and relegation because obviously in canadian sports or american sports it's not really a thing maybe in sort of minor type stuff. So the idea is that if you lose enough in the league, you can get kicked out of the league and kicked to a league lower than the league you're in. It would be like the Yankees getting sent down to the minors.

To the minors, right? For the entire season. Yes, everyone. And if that next year they continued to lose, they would get kicked out of that league and they would be playing beer league softball in Poughkeepsie. Yeah. So what league is is is Wrexham? We're in the fifth tier.

But certainly not your NFL or your hockey, your baseball, your basketball. It's not the sort of thing that happens there. Whereas, you know, we've had promotion relegation over here since sort of the 1890s really and it's a big part of it well i was going to say yeah i mean relegation is it sounds really exciting and our our sports leagues are a bit like the mob you know once you're in you're in for life it doesn't never change so um now there's this big reality tv series welcome to rexham are are people in town uh watching it is the reaction good oh yes very much so i think again um until it came out there was that little bit of nervousness in terms of what would be shown everybody involved you know people at the club people in the town uh you know people right across north wales really

yeah they put themselves in the hands of the documentary makers and they had to you know and trusted them you know that the documentary i have to say is absolutely fantastic you know i think they nailed every single part of it you know it was real it was earthy you know you felt part of the community and you can see that by the number of people, tourists now who flock to Wrexham. They might be coming across to London from the States or from Canada. And they think nothing now, a drive, doing a 400-mile round trip up to Wrexham, just so they can go in the turf pub. They're not even coming to games. This is on a Monday or a Tuesday. It's phenomenal.

Amazing. So, I mean, I have to ask you about Ted Lasso. I mean, has anyone remarked on the similarities to one of the most popular shows on TV right now? It's phenomenal. A show about a pair of American dilettantes wandering into English soccer, winning the hearts of a small community with a lackluster team. I mean, there's obviously a glaring exception between the two. I mean, Ted Lasso's this homespun middle America everyman who cracks corny dad jokes. And these are salty-mouthed, irreverent Hollywood wise guys. But yeah, has anyone talked about the life imitates art quality to this thing? Not really, no. And I think that's because of the delivery. Life imitates art quality to this thing.

Not really, no. And I think that's because of the delivery, the way it's been delivered here in Wrexham is the fact that, you know, they've come across, but they've actually respected, I'll say traditions and practices and particularly the community. They've not come in and imposed them. You know, the base to come across

and they've admitted, we don't know a lot about football, soccer. And didn't even know soccer that well. No, no, we didn't know anything about the sport. Now, we're obsessed with it. So they've got actual specialists in. They went for a really good manager who, getting him down to Division 5

must have taken a bit of doing because he belongs in the championship. Same with, they've got Sean Harvey, who's got their boots on the ground. They've got Fleur Robinson, who's the chief executive. All people who know football inside out and are experts. Because it's, you know, sports is a different business from everything else.

Like I said, these guys have come across, obviously, and they've been so humble. Should the majority of the supporters decide that we're the guys for the job, we would be honoured and thrilled. And we would never, ever once take that lightly. We will laugh at ourselves, but we will never laugh at the situation. Which sounds crazy when you think, you know, the star profile these guys have and the names they are,

but they've been absolutely fantastic. Well, you mentioned the business and the soccer. I'm going to ask you about both those things. So let's start with the business. And this might be a chicken and egg question, but was this a sports play initially or is it a content creation play? Like what was

the initial priority for Reynolds and McElhenney I think I don't like to speak on behalf of people but I think it was a documentary vehicle that was the real thing because you know you know Rob Humphrey Kerr had said to him he says oh you've got to watch this documentary which was about the football club Sunderland who were dropping out of the Premier League and then got relegated to the third division. Another manager gone, another relegation. The problems run deep. Let us pray for

Sunderland Football Club and for our city. And it was a bit of a car crash, but compelling stuff because it was the car crash. And that gave him

the German the idea to actually think, well, yeah, I want to do my, yeah, I want to do my own documentary. I want to buy myself a football team or a soccer team, and I'm going to use that as a vehicle. So it did start. That was the reason for doing this. There's no doubt about that. Amazing. So Michael Henney sees this soccer documentary, creates a soccer documentary, buys a team as a result. And if I understand correctly, they even hired the same coach.

Yeah, they had a coach that they inherited, so they kept him. But yeah, Phil Parkinson was in the original. He was one of many managers who was there at Sunderland. That's actually true, yeah. But yeah, it was the concept. The vehicle was to bring this documentary,

get a sports team. And they must have looked at about 10 or 15, I've been told, right across the UK, most of them in England. But obviously then they went to, they chose the right one, as hindsight's shown, because it's a beacon. It's the only professional team in North Wales. It's a country of 3 million people.

Down in South Wales, you've got Cardiff, Swansea and Newport. But North Wales just had Wrexham, and Wrexham were failing. So to hit upon them and go for them, it's been an absolute genius, if I'm honest. Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and

podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So if you've just alluded to the successes, it's a great story that people are starting to know around the world. But on the business side, so Rexham lost money last year. Can you talk to me about that, the money loss? Yeah, the 21-22 season, which was the first full year under this ownership, they lost £2.9 million. That's despite increasing the revenue

by over 400% to about £6 million just because they spent so much on the team and transfer fees and wages. They also bought back the race course ground, which has been the club's home since the late 1800s. But because they've had some bad owners in the past, they'd had to sell the ground to

other parties. So buying that back cost £2 million. So that was part of it. But they came into it expecting to lose money initially. It's a bit like a start-up where you come in and you expect to lose money in the hope that the documentary will take off. And then in years to come, it will be a big success.

And I think this summer will be really interesting because obviously we don't have the accounts for this year yet because the year hasn't finished. But when they, 2021 in the summer, they signed two-year contracts for like shirt sponsorship and other sort of sponsorships with blue chip companies, you know, your TikTok, your Expedia. But obviously the documentary wasn't around then now the documentary has had a year and the exposure for those companies has been absolutely phenomenal more than anybody expected so now those deals are renegotiated this summer and i think we will then see the value of the documentary because you know in 21 22 they earned a million pounds from sponsorship in total i would would expect that number is going to be three, four times that next season, just because, A, you want to be part of a successful thing.

If you're a brand, you want to be attached to something that's going well. But also, you're attached to Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney. It's a win-win, I would have thought, for a sponsor. You've got to give Ryan Reynolds credit. Not only a super successful movie star, but he's also spent the last few years racking up business wins. Like, he's taken stakes in these companies like Aviation Gin or Mint Mobile. You know, people come up to me all the time and they say, what makes Aviation Gin so delicious? At Mint Mobile, we're always looking for innovative ways to save you money. And then both these companies I just mentioned have been sold, making Reynolds extremely wealthy. So what I'm wondering is, does anyone there worry that Reynolds and McElhenney might build up the team, run out their Disney Plus series, and then kind of move on?

I think that, yeah, that was definitely a fear. And again, that was part of the skepticism right at the very start when this first emerged. Because, you know, like you said, I i know they signed initial two seasons for the documentary so obviously that we've had one and the second one will be in production because the season's just about to finish and then but then you think well how many more years can that go forward you know will disney or fx over in north america well they want series five series six you know you don't know and that was always the fear that they might get to this and then they just, yeah, we've got it so far. We've got them up three leagues, which is great anyway.

That's the one thing that supporters thought, well, we're at rock bottom. If they can get us up two divisions and then they do sell it, then it means we've got a better club and we've had a good ride in the meantime. But what I find the most fascinating aspect of this whole project at the moment, from the outside, obviously, I'm not in the aspect of this whole project at the moment, you know, from the outside, obviously, you know, I'm not in the middle of the club,

but watching the transformation in Ryan Reynolds, because Rob McElhenney was a sports fan as a kid. You can see that, you know, his Philadelphia Eagles was his team. The Eagles winning the Superbowl was one of the top, one of the greatest days of my life. It was top five greatest days of my life.

One of the greatest days of my life. It was top five greatest days of my life. People who are supporters of clubs and sporting fans across the world know exactly what I'm talking about, and I mean it. I put it up there with the birth of my children and my wedding day, not because of what happened on the field, but because of what it meant to an entire community of people and to my relationships. We all know when your sports team, as a 10, 11-year-old,

they can make you cry, they can make you happy, they can make everything in between. And that continues into adulthood. But I get the impression that Ryan's never had that as a kid. He played sports, but I don't think he ever really had a team. Certainly, that's my impression. So he's never had that gut-wrenching, horrible moment when your team loses a big match or that elation when you win a huge game, whether it's a Super Bowl or whether it's a promotion decider. But I think over the last two years, the football club has drawn him in. And I think he's actually, he feels it now. Because there was a great Instagram message from his wife, Blake Lively, on,

I think it was January when they played in the FA Cup. And she just messaged to say, I've just taken out a subscription on ESPN. Blake shares with her fans on Instagram, I bought ESPN Plus today just to watch my husband experience crippling anxiety live. Worth it.

That's it. And then she put, like, totally worth it. But I thought that summed it up because I think, you know, football, soccer has got its hooks into him. It's A, it's one of the greatest things

that's ever happened to me and genuinely one of the worst. Like, I love, now love this sport so much that I hate it. That's what makes me think that this is a,

it probably wasn't when they started. And I think they've just been given the freedom of Wrexham in a civic ceremony on Easter Monday. And it was a closed ceremony, but I've got a transcription of the speeches that were made. And Rob McElhenney actually admitted in that, he says, I didn't realise when we started this just how into it I was going to get.

But now I want this not only for the rest of my life, but also for my family's generations to come. And I think they are into it. You know, obviously in four years time, if they can't get out of League One and they finish in the 11th and it's hemorrhaging money, maybe things change.

But there's actually a sense now that these guys are actually in it for the long haul. And I think, you know, that skepticism, well, certainly that skepticism that was there sort of two, three years ago, that's completely disappeared. And people are, A, they're enjoying the ride anyway, but B, they do actually expect these guys to stick around

and they are here quite a lot. And he obviously was very proud of his investments in the gin and the mobile phone company, but I don't think he's ever been screaming at his television about the fortunes of either of them. That'd be my guess. Obviously, I'm speaking on somebody's behalf, which I shouldn't do,

but that's the impression I get. Well, people get passionate about gin, but maybe not to that point. So let's talk sports. I mean, anyone following this story will know that this team, Rexham AFC, has managed to escape the National League. It had been stuck in for 15 years. But of course, many of our listeners won't be familiar with what we discussed earlier, the whole relegation concept. But what's the setup for football in the UK? What's the significance of moving from the National League? I think it's the fifth division to the next one. Can you walk me through that?

vision to like the next one like can you walk me through that yeah sure well there's the premier league which is obviously the very top that's your manchester united manchester city arsenal chelsea and then there's three leagues below that which is the football league the efl and that's you know confusingly championship league one and league two and then the fifth level is the national league which 20 years ago was pretty much an amateur competition. You know, it's guys who'd have a day job. You know, they'd be working as a teacher during the day and then they'd be playing football at night. You know, that was what it was. It was sort of part time, really. But over the last 20 years, the standards in that league have just shot up. And now every team in that team is fully professional. They're all full time.

But they are, you know, it's still called non-league. Now, Wrexham have escaped that. They're into the Football League. And now the challenge is to move up through the league. You know, they're in the fourth level, the fourth tier, fourth division. And, you know, Ryan Reynolds said on television in January, his hope is to get to the Premier League. That's obviously going to be a huge, huge challenge.

But teams have done it. If you manage your team well and make the right decisions and the right appointments, it can happen. It's not easy. There's a lot of teams that have crashed and burned on the way from Division 4 all the way to the Premier League and lost a lot of money. But that's the end goal for Wrexham. They want to get to that level. So, no, I don't want to be a buzzkill here, but allow me to be a buzzkill for just a second. So, yes, this is a Cinderella story. Yes, these are unquestionably charming guys, the owners. They're likable.

They're fun to watch. And it's unquestionably extraordinary marketing. But is there any part of the UK football world saying, okay, wait a minute here. This is also a story about foreigners with deep pockets, you know, basically buying a promotion for a team they've picked. Because foreign ownership has been controversial at the more elite levels of the sport, right? So, yeah, does anyone talk about that in a more negative way? It's usually the teams they're up against. Like the teams in the National League, you know,

they've obviously been a little bit bitter because they'll see it as an advantage. But, you know, I'd say for the last 40, 50 years, money talks in football over here, particularly. It's very different to the NFL where you have the draft, which can even things up. Over here, your team's at the top end of the league in the Premier League. Manchester City, because they're owned by Abu Dhabi. You've got Newcastle now owned by Saudi Arabia.

All these teams have got millions and millions and millions of pounds. And that's why they're first, second, third in the Premier League. Money's always taught so there's always going to be jealousy, there always is. That'll probably change next season so it'll be the teams that will be in League Two who'll be their direct competitors, they won't like it. But money talks in football over here, in soccer over here and, you know, Wrexham are no different. All right, well, let's end with a happy note. We know that fans of Welcome to Wrexham can expect a joyful finale to the show's second season. It's quite an amazing scene, this promotion to the fourth division. But, you know, you're optimistic about the next season. So what do you think is going to happen?

You think they're literally going to shoot up through the next division? What do you expect? I expect them to do that next season. And then I think that's when it can become tough. Once you get into League One, which is the third division, because there's some big clubs in that division at the moment. There's Sheffield Wednesday, there's Ipswich, there's Derby County, Sunderland were there very recently.

All teams who've been in the Premier League and all teams who have sort of 30, 35, 40,000 fans. And that's a lot of money. So they've got big budgets. Obviously, Wrexham, their ground will hold 15, 16,000 if they are in League One by 2024. And that's going to be tough to compete against, because there's going to be people with big pockets. And that's when I do wonder if they'll bring investors on board at that stage. You know, so it's not just

their money that's at risk. I think they'll be looking to bring other, you know, whether it's individuals or companies or just, you know, investment groups. I think that's when that'll be needed because once you get to League One, it gets difficult. Once you get into the Championship, which is our second level, and the team's losing £20-25 million every single year chasing that dream of getting into the Premier League, which is where the big money is. So to use the vocabulary of North American sports, they're in the big leagues now, or almost the big leagues. They're moving up towards the biggest league, but yeah, they're in a league that's, you know, the football league is big news over here. It's the oldest league in the world, and Wrexham deserve their place in it, and it's going to be fascinating to see how they get on. Well, thank you, Richard. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Anytime. Anytime. Enjoy, Dave. That's all for today. I'm Alex Panetta, and thank you for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.