Front Burner - Severe flooding afflicts Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick, again

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

"We can't go through this again." Thousands of people across Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick are dealing with serious floods this week. And not for the first time. Today on Front Burner, we hear from one Quebec mother on her family's difficult decision to leave their flood-ravaged home for good -- and a disaster prevention expert who thinks governments should buy homeowners out of their flood-prone houses.

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Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. And that sound you're hearing is the sound of the Ottawa River. It's already at a record high, and it isn't even supposed to peak until today or later tomorrow. Hundreds of homes in Ottawa and neighbouring Gatineau are at risk. In Saint-Marc-sur-Lalac, Quebec, more than 5,000 people had to grab whatever they could and flee their homes when a dike burst on Saturday. Within seconds, minutes, you could hear the trees crashing, the water tumbling down like a real tsunami.

It just came. Oh, no. I was kind of in denial, even when I was canking in my street. We'll have, like, one inch of water or something. No, it was three feet. Over in New Brunswick, this year's water levels have already broken last year's, and last year was the worst in at least a decade. For the second year in a row, New Brunswickers are dealing with what was described last year as a once-in-a-lifetime

flood. Meanwhile, in Ontario's cottage country, the Muskoka River has now broken a 2013 record when more than 2,000 homes were affected. We've always been fine. Dad knew what he was doing and never expected ever to see this much water in the ground. Right now, there are more Canadian forces fighting flooding than we have deployed overseas. More than a million sandbags have been filled. have deployed overseas. More than a million sandbags have been filled. Today, one family's struggle with the floodwaters and some tough questions about what might have to happen

to the people in the flood zones. This is From Printer. Rachel Oupé is a mother of five who now has to evacuate her home in Ilbizart, Quebec, for a second time in three years. Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today during such a stressful time. No problem. Thank you for being interested in our story. I want to start by having you describe a drawing that you did, that you showed us. It's of your house. Yes, the drawing I did is our house on a Noah's Ark.

I drew it a few days ago while we were trying to save the house. And I kind of had a feeling that with the in Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick. People need to understand the threats are serious, they're concrete. I don't know, it just came to me. Yeah, I will say it's a beautiful drawing. It's sort of this picturesque house on what looks like Noah's Ark. And, you know, can you tell me what that house means to you and your family? Well, it means so much for us.

We are a reconstructed family. for us. We are a reconstructed family and when we moved to that house, we moved in March, just a month before the flood in 2017. And it was our first home and it was perfect. The way, when you look at the house, we had on the left, it was my two kids' bedrooms. On the right, it was my husband's kids' bedrooms and our bedroom was in the middle and it was made perfectly for us. We had the lake behind us, a lot of space in the front yard for the kids to play. Like I said, we have five kids and it was like a dream come true. And a month later, we got flooded.

Montreal's mayor declared a state of emergency that covers the outer boroughs. In Rigo, in the Uruway, more than 2,700 homes that have been flooded. Just shocked. Like literally this happened in four to six hours. We don't have enough help. It's a disaster. And after days of frantically trying to save their homes, many now feel the battle is lost. days of frantically trying to save their homes, many now feel the battle is lost. It's not that I failed, but I tried so hard. Now I don't know what to do anymore. That's when also I found out I was pregnant with the latest one.

And we decided to fight and we lost the battle. Our house got flooded, but after the flood, we decided that we were going to stay. And we went through a lot. We had to be evacuated for three months. I had a lot of pregnancy problems. I almost lost my baby. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. There was a lot of stress. But we fought and fought.

And we never thought it was going to happen again because everybody said that this never happens, this never happens. We just have to wait and be patient. I mean, there's nothing that we can do. I mean, it goes like that maybe once a hundred years. Two years ago, you know, we thought this was the hundred-year flood. We didn't know it was going to be the two-year flood. We started to live again a stable life.

And now again, this happened. Right. And what you were just talking about is the first time that your home flooded, correct? In 2017. Yes. And now that it happened again in 2019, just reliving the emotions and facing the reality that this is not our home anymore, that we can't go back. What condition is your house in now? We have eight foot of water in the basement, and I have water almost up to my knees.

That was two days ago. I was trying to go and get a few things, a few personal things or the kids' toys. At that time, I felt like it wasn't safe for me at all, so I left not too long after. Like, it wasn't safe for me at all, so I left not too long after, and I haven't been there since because, honestly, it's just very flooded and not safe. Is it worse than it was in 2017? For us, yes. The level of water went higher than in 2017. You could see it in the house as well, yes.

It's much higher. And where is your family now? A bit all over the place. I have my two kids that are in Gatineau. It's not looking good for Gatineau. I think we're better prepared in almost all aspects of the intervention. That doesn't mean that it's not difficult for citizens on the grounds. Many people will lose a lot. Some people are

devastated by what they're going through. So I'm going to try to get my kids before it's too hard. Because there's flooding in Gatineau as well and your family's not together. Yeah, so right now we're just a bit spread everywhere. It's day by day. We have stuff in bags and one night I could be at my parents, one night at my in-laws and we're just living day by day for now. I just want to pick up on something you said earlier that you're coming to the realization that you can't go back. that you can't go back? It's because I don't know about the condition of the house,

how it would be after, but it's more for me, it's more about because we have a family and just the trauma that we went through twice in a row is a lot in a lifetime. When you have kids, you know, you want to make sure you have a stable life. We've been through the process, so we know what it's like and we can't go through that again and put the kids through it as well and just living day by day like rain i didn't sleep at all last night and it's um it's too hard it's too hard for me and it's so if it's hard on me it's going to be really hard for the children as well so I don't see how I can do that to our family again. And I know that you've been

renting this house you know if if you don't go back to this house do you have a sense of where you're going to go now? No absolutely not we have no uh we don't know. We don't know. We've been asking a lot of friends on Facebook. We're looking for a home to rent. We have a big family, so we can't live in an apartment. And we're kind of even hesitating on still living in El Desard. are. Even for the people who aren't flooded, this affects them a lot. Just driving around the island is hard. And so we don't know. That's something that we have to think about. Rachel, I'm really sorry that you're going through such a stressful situation right now. I hope that you and your family will be together again soon. That's what the most important thing is, is that we're all together and that's what we're trying to do. And then these events that are occurring right now, like I have a lot of empathy for the people in St. Matzah-le-Lac and I know how they feel. And as long as everybody's alive and everybody's together, I think that's what the most important thing is.

And my drawing, it represents just these events. They happen and there's a lot of other stuff in the world that's happening right now. And just be thankful that, you know, we're all alive and we still have each other. And just to be kind to one another. I think that's the most important thing to do right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us during such a stressful time for you and your family.

Thank you. We'll be back in a second. Discover what millions around the world already have. We'll be back in a second. by powerful performances from renowned actors and narrators. With the free Audible app, you can listen anytime, anywhere, whether you're at home, in the car, or out on a jog. The first 30 days of the Audible membership are free, including a free book. Go to www.audible.ca to learn more. Now I'm going to speak with Glenn McGilvery, who thinks that as hard as it may be,

Rachel has the right idea here. Some people who have been hit time and time again by flooding are just going to have to move. He's the managing director at the Institute for Catastrophic Loss Reduction. Glenn, hello. Hello. So, first of all, what have you been thinking as you've watched the flooding in Ontario, in Quebec, in New Brunswick this season? Well, honestly, I've been thinking, here we go again. So for people in Ottawa, Gatineau, Montreal, places like that, it's the second time in two years.

For people in places like New Brunswick, it's the second time in two years. For people in places like New Brunswick, it's the second time in one year. St. John, New Brunswick has set a new record for its highest ever flood level and the worst is far from over. Now there are warnings the water is spreading danger because it's overwhelmed the sewer systems and unleashed contamination. And I think sometimes we're used to these things happening perhaps every 10 or 15 or 20 years apart. But now it's much closer together. I know you say here we go again, but what about the idea that some of these floods are record-breaking? In Bracebridge, Ontario, for example, in parts of New Brunswick.

The Red Cross is saying that there are some areas that have been hit this year that are being hit for the first time. Yeah, the first time recently, but not the first time in history. And so you're going to get that. You're going to get places that haven't flooded for a while. But then again, we have these recurring things as well. So it's a little bit of both. You believe that people who live in these high risk areas, areas that are prone to flooding, that they should move. Is that right? I believe so, yes. But, you know, these are people's homes. So can you see how difficult that is for them? Oh, absolutely. And, you know, my heart

really goes out to these folks. It really does. I don't want to seem callous or cold, but it's pretty clear that what's happening right now is not sustainable. And we have to come up with some permanent solutions and, you know, rushing in with sandbags and volunteers and other barriers and things like that is needed right now in the near term. But in the long term, we have to come up with some ideas that will put this to bed forever. Right. So can we talk a little bit about those ideas? How exactly do you see this working,

moving people away from these high-risk flood zones? Yeah, well, we have a few examples in Canada of this happening in the past. In the U.S., however, they have a formal program, and that's one of the things we need here. But in places like the Netherlands, too, where they're absolutely excellent at managing flood, world leaders in managing flood,

they've been buying out properties for years as well. Hank Ovenk is a water expert, a special envoy for international water affairs for the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, we had a program. It was called Room for the River. We almost flooded in 1995 and evacuated 250,000 people

and then thought, ah, the rivers, we forgot about them. So we gave them more room and the capacity to flow. How did you give them more room? By moving people out of harm's way. And you say that it hasn't happened here often, but is there an example of it happening here? Sure. I mean, I go back to actually 1954 in the Toronto area with Hurricane Hazel. Over 80 people died from flooding in the Toronto area. 24 hours after the hurricane and

floods had passed, some 300 people were still missing. Countless thousands are homeless. Homes and property snatched by surging waters. Lives snuffed out with hardly a moment's notice. Less than an hour ago, I saw the first of three automobiles being raised from the onrushing floodwaters. Well, the water was only two inches high when I went to the garage.

Well, when I come back, the water was up to my waist. The province came in and bought out homeowners located along the Humber River area and also in another part of Toronto. And those properties were converted into green space and parkland. And that's key. I mean, we don't want to see the properties resold. We want them to turn into public green space. 25 years ago today, Hurricane Hazel hit the Toronto region.

Today, Toronto is better prepared. Floodplains have become picnic grounds. Huge dams and reservoirs control water levels. And then is the idea here that when it floods, it floods onto like a park? Exactly. And there's really no damage and nobody loses their lives. And, you know, you might be inconvenienced for a day or two if you wanted to go like a park. Exactly. And there's really no damage and nobody loses their lives. And, you know, you might be inconvenienced for a day or two if you wanted to go to the park.

But other than that, there's no permanent impact. How many people do you think we're talking about here? I know the Quebec Premier, François Legault, is offering up $200,000 to move homeowners out of homes built on these floodplains. We really need to have incentives to move the people when it's happening every year or almost. But how many people?

This seems like it would cost a lot of money. Well, as a lump sum, it'll cost a bit of money at the beginning, but we're paying somehow anyway. We're going to either pay by continuing to offer disaster assistance and continuing to rebuild. We're going to pay with the interruption that it costs, the disruption that it costs the first responders. You know, if we decide to put in flood defences, you know, levees and things like that, that costs a lot of money. levies and things like that, that costs a lot of money and actually locks you into this perpetual state where you're always going to have to maintain and upgrade that infrastructure. So you're going to pay one

way or the other. So you have to decide which is the best route to take and we really think that buyouts are the way to go. And I just want to get a sense of the scope of these buyouts. I mean, 5,000 people have had to leave their homes in St. Marseille-sur-Lalac, a suburb of Montreal. So are we talking about buyouts for tens of thousands of people? Well, I mean, when you talk about 5,000 people, you know, you divide that amongst homeowners or households. So, you know, you're talking far fewer households. But I think the key here is really looking at the really high

risk properties and looking at buyouts for the high risk properties. Not everybody is high risk and not everybody is at danger of flooding all the time, but certainly you start with the high risk properties. And just to unpack that idea a little bit more, I think something I'm struggling with is how we are able to predict these properties, because I understand that flood maps in Canada aren't particularly up to date or accessible, like essentially that we can't really say all of which areas are prone to flooding. And also, isn't this climate change? As we just spoke about, there are homes that haven't been flooded before, and we've been

told that flooding is going to get more intense, more unpredictable. So realistically, how do we know which homes to evacuate? Right. Well, we don't want to overstate the flood mapping issue too much. I mean, flood maps definitely have to be updated. They have to incorporate new technology. They have to incorporate climate change. It's not to say, though, that the flood experts don't know where the flooding happens. They have a pretty good idea of where it happens.

And especially, you know, the high risk properties are fairly well known. They would be, you know, essentially next to the river, right on the floodway. As far as, you know, climate change, climate change will definitely change the footprint of flooding, but it won't necessarily change the footprint of the really high risk properties. It will, you know, most likely incorporate newer properties into the mix a little bit high-risk properties, it will most likely incorporate newer properties into the mix a little bit further from the river, ones that we didn't know were at risk before we mapped for climate change. What do you see happening if people in these areas aren't moved, if we just continue on the path that we've been going on?

Well, I mean, if the models are correct, we're going to see more of these events in the years ahead, and we're going to see more property damage and more disruption. And it's not just because of the possible change in the frequency of flooding, but it's also just the increase in development. If you have more in the bullseye, you're going to get more losses. And so this is not just a blip. This is going to happen more and more often in the future. We're going to see more disruption. And it's best to deal with it now because you're going to deal with it at some point.

Glenn, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Before we go today, I just want to tell you about a community that's been dealing with this for a long time. For 17 years, the residents of Ksheshawan First Nation have been forced to leave their homes as the Albany River floods into their community. This week, First Nation leaders in Ontario went to the legislature to demand the provincial and federal governments hurry up and help the community relocate away from the floodplain where they were moved by the feds in 1957. You see in Ottawa the response is immediate. They pretty much call in the army to come save everyone. Why is that? You know First Nations Nations in Kshatchewan are Ontarians and Canadians just as much as they are in Ottawa. That's it for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.

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