Front Burner - Some UFOs can’t be explained: U.S. intelligence report

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

The truth is out there. Today, we dig into a new U.S. intelligence report that sheds light on unidentified aerial phenomena, a.k.a. UFOs, with help from science writer and UFO expert Chris Rutkowski.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. I'm Jamie Poisson. Oh, my gosh, dude. Wow.

Look at that. Look at that. So what you just heard was a leaked recording from 2015 and the voices of pilots who are totally dumbfounded by something flying fast off the U.S. East Coast. Thanks to a New York Times expose a few years later, the Navy eventually confirmed the video came from one of its pilots. And there was another mysterious recording taken around the same time. There's a whole fleet of them. Look on the ASA. Oh my gosh.

They're all going against the wind. The wind's 120 knots to the west. Look at that thing, dude. That's not our LNS, though, is it? It's not? It is our LNS, dude. Look at that thing. It's rotating. The U.S. government called unexplained sightings unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAPs, what most of us know as UFOs.

On Friday, the U.S. intelligence community released a highly anticipated unclassified report to Congress on UAPs. But before we dig into that, retired Navy Chief Master-at-Arms Sean Cahill was standing aboard the deck of the USS Princeton in 2004 and saw something. I spoke to him last week. From the bridge wing, what I witnessed were just lights. They were all very luminous, brighter than a regular aircraft of a single color. They were white lights. They had no navigational lights. I saw nothing that indicated conventional aircraft. But then again, I only saw lights, so I shouldn't describe it any farther past that. What we did see on the gun camera footage, however, was quite sensational. We saw a tic-tac-shaped object, and the pilots described a white, matte-colored, tic-tac-shaped

object, approximately 30 feet long, that was maneuvering in a way that our aircraft cannot. And it did so without wings, without control surfaces, without means of propulsion. And on the infrared cameras, it was showing that it was colder than the environment around it. Nearly two decades on, he still isn't sure what he saw from the deck of that ship or what was captured on infrared jet footage. During the whole week, I didn't know what I was looking at. We in the military are pretty prosaic with our explanations. We discuss things like contacts.

We don't talk about unidentified flying objects. But we knew that we were looking at something that was different than what was in the arsenal of our battle group or that was in the arsenal of any other known military at the time. So certainly we talked about UFOs when we were in our messing areas and when we were off watch. But otherwise, we were in the middle of a training exercise. So it was very much a professional atmosphere. And so today, what do you think it was that you saw? Again, I'm one of those people that hesitates to assign a meaning to it. We are here, and I've never seen anything else like that.

So my origin of investigation starts with here on Earth and moves out from there. There's a lot more that we have to learn about this, but this is ongoing each day. And I'll tell you, I live in what we call a fleet concentration area here in San Diego. So I hear rumors just from neighbors and friends and colleagues of what's going on out there. And this is happening now. Well, that was Sean Cahill a day before the report dropped. Now I'm joined by Chris Rutkowski. He's a Canadian science writer and UFO expert who's been studying the issue for decades. And he's here with me now to explain what's in the intelligence report and what's not. Hi, Chris. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to be here.

So big picture, what does this report tell us about UAPs, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, or UFOs? Well, what it does say is that UFOs are something real. The report actually says that UFOs, or actually UAPs in this case, are physical objects for the most part. They don't seem to be made up whatsoever, but there is a number of explanations that are possible. In fact, the report describes five explanations, including the fact that maybe these are birds or balloons or something like that. There's a possibility that it's a foreign technology, that it's a possibility that it's top secret technology. There's a possibility that this is some sort of atmospheric

phenomenon, like sundogs, I suppose. And then there's a sort of catch-all that they describe as other, which is really, really very broad. And they didn't even know how to describe it. It could literally be anything, maybe devices that we don't have a scientific understanding to really appreciate. So craft that are capable of some characteristics of flight that we don't understand, in and out of water, not making sonic booms, flying faster than they should darned well fly, things like that. And this whole thing is, you know, wrapped up in the mystery of what the UAPs really are. And is this a shift from what the government has previously said about UAPs?

UFO phenomenon has been bandied about in government for quite some time. The one, the only, President Barack Obama is here! There's footage and records of objects in the skies that we don't know exactly what they are. They did not have an easily explainable pattern. And one of the significant issues about this particular report is that since the 1960s, we haven't really had much of an insight into what the American government has been doing with regard to UFOs. It's Project Blue Book that many people will be familiar with from the awful TV show that was produced.

After all we've seen, you sold me out. What I did was to set us free. The only way to really get to the truth is to convince them that we don't believe. It was finished in 1968 or so, and it had many thousands of cases in there, a lot of them from military personnel. But the report concluded essentially that UFOs are not really anything to worry about. It's not a defense issue, so everybody just go home. The Air Force has been accused from time to time of hiding information about UFOs. What do you have to say to that kind of thing?

These charges are absolutely untrue. Actually, the United States Air Force releases statistics on the UFO phenomena, and we've always honored accredited media when they want to investigate a given specific sighting. There's nothing to hide. There's nothing to hide at all. But, you know, that really didn't sit well with a lot of people. And when it was finally realized and leaked that there was an actual project investigating UFOs in the United States between 2007 and 2012, that made people take notice that maybe there is something to this after all, despite the fact that it's surrounded by, you know, ridicule. Everybody tends to have a lot of fun with it.

The new report that was just released really emphasizes, as a matter of fact, it says specifically that the problem is that people have been reluctant to report UFOs because of the stigma attached to the subject, and they really need people to take it a little more seriously so they can better understand what it is people are seeing. How does the Air Force look upon people who make reports of UFOs? Do they look on them as qualified observers? Yes, they do look on them as qualified observers.

Actually, most people who report a UFO sighting are patriotic citizens who have been mystified by something that they've seen. I want to get to those cultural issues a little bit more with you in a few minutes, but this report itself, you know, it's not very long. It's like under 10 pages. And so are there any details that really stood out to you here? Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think are getting misreported. First of all, there's 144 cases that were examined. And even those 144 cases mostly come from the past two

years or so with a few outliers. So this was coming from a very specific group of cases, and most of them came from military personnel in a few very specific locations. So it's not really a broad analysis of the UFO phenomenon in general. The other thing to note is that a lot of people are reporting that out of the 144 cases, only one could be explained, and that was a partially deflated balloon, as the report describes. And we really don't have any information about the rest of the cases that it looked at. However, some people have said that this 143, which are left, are unexplained.

And that's not quite true. What the report actually says is that it doesn't have enough information or didn't have enough information and data to come up with an explanation for those. Not that it couldn't explain it, but that there was insufficient information. And it turns out there's a much smaller subset. In fact, it says somewhere around 18 cases that were interesting enough that pilots were describing flight characteristics that didn't describe to conventional craft and that perhaps seen by multiple sensors. So it's really not the larger number, but it still says that pilots are

seeing things in the sky and that should be a concern. In fact, the report does say that one of the concerns that should really be taken notice of is that this may be an example of a potential flight hazard. And one can just imagine that if UAPs or UFOs are flying circles around jet aircraft, as in a few cases described like the Tic Tac and so forth, or in fact, conventional airliners have objects that are being reported by the pilots flying them, that poses a safety risk to air travelers. In fact, in Canada, we've had a number of near misses. In fact, the report from the United States from this task force also says there were 11 near misses. So if there are near misses in flight lanes and the airwaves, then that suggests that this should be taken very, very seriously and examined much more thoroughly. Does this report at all address where these things could be coming from? Basically, like,

I guess, did it wade into whether they're likely from here or, you know, I guess not from here? Well, as a matter of fact, the report goes to great lengths and avoids the idea of aliens like the plague. And a lot of people are disappointed by the report because, you know, they wanted to see something about extraterrestrials or aliens in it. But the report never really looked into that. They wanted to know what it is that people, especially pilots, were really reporting. And while the cases do suggest that there's some sort of technology that doesn't seem to be aircraft or drones or balloons or whatnot, at least some of these cases may have some explanation that we haven't thought of. In

fact, there's a report talks about we may need advances in science before we're able to explain some of this. So, you know, there is some of that, but it doesn't automatically mean aliens. You know, people talk about this. There's a term out there called limited hangout, where some but not all information is released to satisfy public demand. And I wonder as someone who's been looking at this for a long time, if you think it's possible that that's what's happening here. I think it's very possible that we're not getting the whole picture. And I wouldn't be surprised by that. In fact, one curious thing about the fact that these pilots are coming forward, and they're Navy pilots for the most part, is that the Air Force is not weighing in on this. And the Air

Force was behind the original government of the United States' investigation into UFOs, that Project Blue Book. So the fact that the Air Force itself is being a little quiet about this is curious. Maybe there's an Air Force project that the Navy isn't privy to. And that's actually happened in history where something called a Skyhook balloon was chased by an Air Force jet, and it turned out to be a Navy project. So there is this possibility there's a, you know, not a crossover, but not enough information sharing. And the report that was released does say that they want increased information sharing between various agencies. So there's a lot of reasons why we wouldn't get the whole picture of what's really going on. So, you know, we have a lot to go before we can say that

these UAPs were aliens. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Chris, I got to ask you, you know, as somebody who spends a lot of time looking at this, what do you think is going on here? All of these UAP sightings, what do you think they are? Well, you know, that's a very good question. I'm not sure. There's no question that a lot of the videos and the infrared that it was released, in some cases, to the internet before the Pentagon even acknowledged it, suggests that, you know,

this was coming through in a manner that was not officially authorized. And maybe we're not seeing anything that's really good after all, we're only seeing the stuff that can easily be explained. But the stuff that's reported by the pilots is what should be taken more seriously. You know, if these experienced pilots, some of whom have thousands of hours in the air, say that objects were flying by their plane in defiance of ordinary physics and conventional technology, that's something to be concerned about. And it's not just these pilots. There's many pilot sightings, in fact. And even in Canada, there are pilot reports that are made every month. Tell me more about what's happening in Canada. Well, you know, Transport Canada has actually a classification within their incident reports actually saying UFOs, not UAPs. They actually call them UFOs. So if a pilot sees something, and there actually is a directive by Nav Canada to pilots, that if they see any unidentified flying objects, and they

actually use that term, they are to report it to Nav Canada and Transport Canada. And there are such reports, there are reports made all the time. There was a report on June 20th by a pilot flying near Langley, BC, of a black object that was flying just off the pilot's wingtips. So these reports are being filed all the time. And the FAA and Transport Canada both have records. So, you know, that's the public record. And the military record is, you know, something we don't necessarily have privy to. But this report on UAP from the Pentagon is hopefully going to be shedding some light. In fact, this is probably just the beginning of a series of reports that we're going to be hearing because, as I mentioned, this was a very small window. This was just a matter of a few years and a very

few locations. If you look at the greater picture, there's going to be many, many more cases. In fact, in Canada alone, we have something like 1,000 UFO reports filed every year. Wow. And they come from all walks of life, not just pilots and their traffic control operators, but from the average citizen, just people looking out from their backyard, from their decks and reporting things. This is so, so interesting.

You know, you mentioned before that there's like a stigma attached with even reporting UFO, UIP sightings, right? People probably feel silly, right? But it does seem like the topic has gone from more fringe to more front and center pretty quickly. You know, I know I'm sure you saw the 60 Minutes piece that recently aired. They did take a pretty serious look at this. Fravor and Dietrich, each with a weapons system officer in the backseat, were ordered to investigate and found an area of whitewater in an otherwise calm blue sea.

Her backseater says, hey, skipper, do you? And about that got out, I said, dude, do you see that thing down there? And we saw this little white tic-tac looking object, and it's just kind of moving above the whitewater area. Do you see the conversation really changing culturally around this? Well, the task force addresses this very specifically. They really want people to take it more seriously. In fact, they noted that one of the reasons that pilots were reluctant to report their sightings was because they were worried about the stigma attached to it. And if that's the case for pilots who are directed by operations manuals to report UFOs, just imagine the stigma

attached to UFOs being reported by the average person on the street. So that is quite significant. But the fact that the Pentagon has admitted that UAPs or UFOs exist and should be taken seriously does take the conversation up a notch, because if there's nothing to point fingers at and laugh about, then maybe it shouldn't be. I wonder how you think that the movies that we watch, like E.T., and Star Wars, have influenced the conversation around this. to admit, we live in the James Cameron or the Steven Spielberg universe where you assume,

and we all assume, that aliens exist because we see them on TV and in the movies all the time. It's been part of our culture. And if UFOs do not represent a physical phenomenon, at the very least, they're a sociological or a psychological phenomenon because we have this idea that aliens are out there. And, you know, since time immemorial, we've looked up into the skies and wondered if we were really alone. And, you know, during these certain times of our civilization, when we're faced with war and climate change and pollution and sociological issues and pandemics, you know, it'd be nice to think that somebody up there has figured out a way to around or to get us out of all this. And, you know, we turn to them for some sort of savior mentality. But wishful thinking

isn't going to get us out of it. We have to look at the facts. We have to look at the details. And, you know, if some cases are explained, and indeed, most cases are explained, even out of it. We have to look at the facts. We have to look at the details. And, you know, if some cases are explained, and indeed most cases are explained, even out of the 1,000 cases reported every year in Canada, but there's always a residual number that can't be explained every year easily. And those are the ones that people concentrate on. Those are the ones where people see triangles flying overhead or close-up looks at objects with windows or marks on the ground that are left when something zips away. Those are the interesting cases, and those are the ones that I think people concentrate on, but those are relatively few

and far between. The typical UFO report is simply a light in the sky, and that literally can be anything. You know, these, these ones people home in on the ones that are really hard to explain, you know, let's say they're, they're not from, from outer space, they are from here. What do you think the implications are for that, that kind of technology potentially existing. Well, and again, the report does show some concern about this. If there is some sort of craft that's flying circles around our jets, that should be of concern. And there's some voice to this in the report about whether China or Russia has come up with some device that can do this,

or even a private contractor that's come up with a device that can do this. So if UFOs are being seen, and according to one pilot during the 60 Minutes interview, these things are being seen every day, why are these incursions not acted upon more efficiently? And if they are, why don't we know about them? So, you know, there's a lot of questions and the technology might exist, you know, but I don't see anything in the report that says this is what we think it is. Because, you know, if China or Russia has this

technology, you'd think that America would have this technology as well. And it may in fact have the technology except it's classified top secret. So there's a lot of questions and sides to all of this. All right. Chris, this is really fascinating. Thank you so much for taking me through this. I really appreciate it. I am going to be thinking about this for days to come for sure. Oh yeah.

Keep an eye out for sure. All right. So some non-UFO news before we go today. Actually, some political news. Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna will not be seeking re-election. According to the Canadian press, which broke the story on Sunday, the longtime Trudeau cabinet minister is stepping away from politics to spend more time with her family and focus professionally on fighting climate change. Her departure has political watchers wondering if former Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney will be eyeing her seat

in Ottawa Centre if he indeed chooses to run for the Liberals in the next federal election. We'll have to wait and see. But that is all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll see you tomorrow.