Front Burner - The alleged Canadian drug lord who upended the meth trade

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

Following a massive international investigation led by Australia, an alleged meth kingpin was arrested by Dutch authorities at an Amsterdam airport. Chinese-Canadian Tse Chi Lop is accused of running a syndicate that commands the $70 billion-a-year Asia-Pacific drug trade. He's been compared to Pablo Escobar and called Asia's El Chapo. Today, we hear from Reuters chief correspondent in Southeast Asia, Tom Allard. He's been a leading reporter on the story and he's here to explain how Tse has allegedly revolutionized and dominated the underground industry.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Speaking. Hi, Tom. This is Jamie Poisson at the CBC. How are you? Hey, good, Jamie. How are you? Good, good. I want to thank you so much for doing this with us. We're really appreciative.

Fantastic. Pleasure to be here. And also, this is such a wild story. It's wild. It's pretty good, isn't it? Yeah. Great, great. So if you don't know Tom Allard, he's Reuters chief correspondent in Southeast Asia, which is perfect, because today we're going to deep dive into the sprawling world of organized crime to talk about an accused Chinese Canadian meth kingpin that some people call Asia's El Chapo. And he just got arrested. So this is pretty good timing. And we can start there. Tom, can you tell me about what happened last Friday with the arrest of Say Chee-Lop?

Yes, Say Chee-Lop was arrested at Amsterdam airport. He'd been deported from Taiwan where he had been for at least 18 months kind of bunkering down, I think would be the best way to explain it. Both the Australian federal police and Chinese police as well had arrest warrants out for him. And Taiwan doesn't have extradition treaties with either of those countries, but he was deported from Taiwan. He was sent back to Canada, where he's a Canadian national, and stopped off in the Netherlands. The Australians were aware that he was being deported and they put in a request for him to be detained by Dutch authorities

and that's exactly what happened. It was here at Amsterdam's main airport that one of the world's most wanted men was arrested. A drug kingpin. He was on Europol's most wanted list. One of the world's most notorious drug lords. So he is now after being chased for at least a decade by Australian police and around four years from this huge

international task force that have been set up to crack the syndicate, he's finally been detained. Right. And I want to get into that massive investigation in a moment. But first, can you put this into context for me? You know, how big of an arrest is this? Why is this guy such a big deal? Right. Well, it's a big deal. I mean, for starters, in Asia, unlike, say, in Latin America, it is extremely rare for senior drug syndicate members and drug kingpins to be arrested. members and drug kingpins to be arrested. And according to police, you know, Sei Chi Locke was the leader or certainly a very senior leader in a sprawling drug network that essentially controlled much of the Asia-Pacific drug trade, but also had links into Europe and small links in with

the Latin cartels themselves. So from Japan new zealand and every single country in between this syndicate had been trafficking meth heroin increasingly ketamine actually in recent times but also mdma or ecstasy as well and they had set up an incredibly sophisticated operation to target these diverse markets and at the top of it it, allegedly, was Saechi Lopp. So to get him was a real coup. You know, it's so interesting to me, you mentioned these Latin cartels, and I know that Saechychellop is now being compared to like Pablo Escobar and El Chapo.

You know, these are drug kingpins that have become these cultural figures, right? They have this lore around them. But I had not heard of Seychellop, even though he's a Canadian national, since this week. And I wonder if you could tell me a little bit more about him. Well, look, he was born in southern China. He's about 57, I think. So anyway, he was born at the tail end of the Cultural Revolution there. As a young man or even a teenager, can't precisely put the dates on it,

he moved to Hong Kong. And from the sketchy information we've been able to build, he does seem to have joined a criminal organisation called the Big Circle Boys or the Big Circle Gang there. And this was a triad-like organisation, although it lacked some of the frills of the traditional triads, things like the sort of elaborate oaths and spirituality that actually infested the traditional triads, things like the sort of elaborate oaths and spirituality that actually

infested the traditional Chinese group. So they'll more or more get the business done. So he was there in Hong Kong until about 1988 when he migrated to Canada. And can you tell me a little bit more about his time in Canada? Because I understand that the big circle boys connection sort of overlaps with his time in Canada, because I understand that the Big Circle Boys connection sort of overlaps with his time in Canada, right? That's right. I mean, as this wave of migration happened from Hong Kong and Macau into Canada, a lot of the Big Circle Boys moved over. So they really sort of set up base in Canada, particularly in Toronto, but also in Vancouver. And we know that Saatchi Lopp was involved, or he's alleged to be involved at that time,

in some sort of credit card fraud scams, immigration scams, bringing more people over, if you like, and then seemed to eventually got into drugs. But Saatchi Lopp was arrested by the Americans in 1997 and got into heroin trafficking in a big way. And they were, according to some US investigators, they dominated the North American heroin trade in the late 80s and through the 90s, when I think at that time there was a real flood of heroin into North America and the US.

But he was picked up by the FBI for heroin trafficking, and he was convicted and was in jail in America, in Ohio, actually, until 2006. And then after he gets out of jail, after spending time in jail for several years, can you tell me about how this allegedly evolves here? And I think, you know, we're going to talk about this Sam Gore syndicate, which is also known as like the company, right? That's correct. Known internally by its members as the company.

It's also named Sam Gore after one of Saatchi Lop's nicknames, which is Sam Gore, and it's Cantonese for brother number three. So yeah, he obviously had these connections into the Golden Triangle from his heroin days, trafficking days. And whilst he told, when he was pleading for a lenient sentence, and he got a fairly lenient sentence, all things considered. He said he was going to give up the crime game and he wanted to open a restaurant. Well, he didn't open a restaurant. He began cooking meth, essentially. Well, that's where it led. Allegedly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got to put a lot of allegedly's because he has not been brought before the courts and that's important to remember. And we haven't been able to speak to him or his lawyers yet. course and it's important to remember yeah and we haven't been able to speak to him or his lawyers yet that's an important thing to know but uh he we know he was in hong kong at least by 2011 and according to investigators he rose very quickly to the high ranks of a drug syndicate that was just really forming and this is a syndicate of the likes that Asia has never seen before because I mean key to understanding it is that Asia's always been dominated by these triad groups, secret societies who have often been great rivals between themselves and in Macau for example through much of the 90s there was incredible bloodshed as these triad groups went to war

with each other you you know, shootings in the street on a weekly basis, you know, chief prosecutors assassinated in the street, things like that were going on. It was wild. But what happened was that this syndicate, there was essentially a peace pact or a kind of alliance, you know, formed amongst these triads. The violence dropped dramatically and the business opportunities increased dramatically. I've heard this narrative around this syndicate that they essentially revolutionized the business. I've heard them compared to essentially a disruptor like Netflix or Amazon or something like that. Is that fair? They certainly transformed or they're believed to have transformed the drug trade.

I wouldn't compare them to Netflix. Maybe it was all like the major TV networks who were rivals all came in together and formed one network. You know, that's probably a better analogy, if you like. So they began producing drugs in huge quantities in these super labs, mostly located in Shan State in Myanmar, which is a country in Southeast Asia. Shan State is a region in the north that's really controlled and has been for many decades

by these local militia groups. And these guys set up huge labs. And importantly, they moved from heroin trafficking into crystal meth you know runs of you know 10 20 30 tons of very high quality crystal meth that they began shipping transporting around the region So I guess they have these really efficient labs. They moved to crystal meth as one of their main products. You know, it's also my understanding that they had this like product delivery guarantee,

which made them kind of stand out. And can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, well, that's exactly right. That's the other element of it, which was that because they could produce this meth on such a large scale, they could produce it extremely cheaply. So that meant that they can just shake and bake, as some people describe it, whenever they want. So if someone would lose a shipment to law enforcement and it was shown to be legitimate, that would be replaced at no cost. But this is also a relationships business. And with all these

senior drug traffickers in this syndicate, many who had been involved for 30, 40 years in drug trafficking, when they came together, they had a huge residue of contacts right around the region and they used them to distribute it to their drugs to over 15, 20 countries. And that's not easy. You know, they had to cooperate with, you know, the Yakuza, Australian motorcycle gangs, Tongan gangs in New Zealand. These all became their kind of allies in the syndicate, if you like, or business partners, if you like.

And so through this and through that, as you said, product guarantee, they were able to build a huge network, police allege. And, like, we're talking about upwards of, like, $70 billion here probably. The estimate of the industry in the Asia Pacific, I think in 2019, was $60 billion for crystal meth and then about $10 billion for heroin. Wow. Right. So yeah, $70 billion. And

they're believed to have between 40 and 70% of that market. The UNODC, that is the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, did an estimate of how much these guys were earning a year. And they put it conservatively at $8 billion a year, but they said the pickles could be as high as $17 billion a year that they were generating. So it's a big, big business. And many people describe it, investigators and counter-narcotics have been looking at it and say, you know, it's like a global corporation. You know, it's extremely sophisticated and slick.

Outbursts of internal rivalries that you see in the Latin American cartels don't happen at all. They're very discreet. As you alluded earlier, the comparison to Pablo Escobar and El Chapo, I mean, while they're featuring Netflix series and, you know, have songs written about it and their families are posting on social media. The Sam Gorse Indicator, the company, is incredibly discreet.

You know, they take a very different approach and they have an incredibly sophisticated supply chain that people have said, you know, right simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I know you mentioned that they've been incredibly discreet, though. I couldn't help pick up on a few of the details from your recent piece in Reuters on, say, Chilop's lifestyle, right?

Like he surrounded himself with kickboxers who were his bodyguards, but also just like 66 million bucks he once dropped at a casino, right? That's what investigators allege, yeah. I mean, I should say relatively discreet. He's discreet relative to the Latin American cartels. But, yeah, look, this is a hugely lucrative business. And as you described, yeah, on one night at the Macau Casino, they say he dropped $66 million. the Macau Casino, they say he dropped $66 million that night.

He's also hosted parties for syndicate members at casinos where he's just hired an entire VIP room and then just given them money to gamble, you know, millions and millions and millions of dollars to gamble for the night. That's the kind of partying that goes on. You know, he flies in private jets, lavish stays at top resorts for months where he'll sit by the poolside in his shorts goes on you know he flies in private jets lavish stays at top resorts for months where he'll sit by the poolside in his shorts and and you know do deals and and meet people very regularly travel to europe had a real passion for english horse racing and betting on

us apparently and as he said he had a sort of phalanx of Thai kickboxers as his bodyguard, and he would rotate them every few months as a sort of security protocol. So he'd bring in, say, 12, a dozen Thai kickboxers and send four of them home, you know, randomly, and then change them over like that, according to investigators. So, yeah, he certainly enjoyed the benefits of his drug business. Right. And of course, in stark contrast to the carnage that these businesses. So exactly, exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's an important point. I mean, that, you know,

crystal meth, particularly the high potent stuff that this syndicate has produced, is incredibly addictive and incredibly destructive in terms of the health consequences and mental health consequences on people. And it's become the biggest drug in the Asia-Pacific, thanks in large part to what these guys have put together in terms of their business. Right. The allegations against, say, Chilop, as you've mentioned several times, they have not been proven in court. And so what can we expect to happen next for him? Final question.

Sure. Well, look, he is currently on remand or in remand in the Netherlands for the next 45 days. So they're awaiting the formal extradition request from Australia. So that's the next step. And there are court proceedings around that. If Saatchi Lopp chooses not to challenge it, he'll probably be extradited to Australia within two months. But if there are legal challenges, it could stretch on for about a year. So it would probably be before there was some final resolution, according to what I'm told.

So who will come to Australia? Who will face drug trafficking charges? Certainly what exactly they are, we don't know yet. So we'll have to wait and see. But, you know, it will be, you can rest assured that Australian authorities will be throwing everything they've got at him and using information that they have collected for over a decade on these activities. All right. Tom Allard, thank you so much for this conversation, which was just very fascinating. I hope that you'll come back on and keep us posted on what's going on. Sure thing. Thanks, Jamie.

All right, so an update for you on a story we covered two weeks ago on the show. The leader of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, has been revealed to be a prolific informant for law enforcement, according to a former prosecutor and a federal court transcript from 2014 obtained by Reuters. and a federal court transcript from 2014 obtained by Reuters. In a Miami hearing, an FBI agent, a federal prosecutor, and even Tarrio's lawyer talk about his undercover work and how it contributed to various cases involving human smuggling, gambling, and drugs. The undercover work was done following his 2012 arrest. Tarrio denied working undercover or cooperating with law enforcement in cases against other people saying, quote, I don't know any of this. I don't recall any of this. And here at home

this week, the House of Commons voted unanimously to call on the federal government to identify the Proud Boys as a terrorist entity. This follows evidence that the Proud Boys took part in the deadly U.S. Capitol attack. Canada is currently collecting information to decide if they will be designated a terrorist group. We did an episode two weeks ago on the rise and fall of the Proud Boys. It's in our feed if you want to check it out. That's all for today, though. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.