Front Burner - The Atlanta killings and anti-Asian hate

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

After a gunman in Atlanta shot eight people dead, including six Asian women, we cover the growing sense of grief and dread about the sharp rise in anti-Asian hate crimes. PBS correspondent and anchor, Stephanie Sy reports.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. So I rise today to speak about a topic that I feel has not received enough attention over the past year. It's a new chapter in a very old story.

Asian elders being violently, sometimes fatally, physically assaulted. We see octogenarians being shoved to the ground. Elderly women being slashed at with knives or assaulted with thrown acid. Asian pedestrians being verbally accosted, threatened, spit on. According to a report released earlier this month, violence against Asian Americans has increased by nearly 150 percent in the past year. So that is Georgia State Senator Dr. Michelle Au speaking out about the rise in anti-Asian violence just one day before devastating shootings in Atlanta left eight people dead, six of them Asian women. Let's bring you the latest on the developing story. Out of Atlanta, Georgia, police still investigating a possible hate crime. Eight people were shot and killed yesterday at three separate spas.

Multiple reports cite police as saying six of the victims were women of Asian descent. These attacks all happened within about an hour of each other. The suspected shooter is a 21-year-old man. He has been arrested and is this morning in police custody. Today, we're going to be covering the latest on the shootings and talk about the grief and anger over the growth of anti-Asian hate crimes in the United States and here in Canada too. Stephanie Tsai is a correspondent for PBS NewsHour and anchor of PBS NewsHour West. She just produced a piece about the rise of anti-Asian attacks in the U.S. during the pandemic. Hi, Stephanie. Welcome to FrontBurner. Hey, Jamie. It's really nice to be

with you. Thank you so much for making the time. So I want to start today with the victims. There were vigils on Wednesday night in Atlanta, also elsewhere in New York, for example, and several of their names have now been released. Delaina Ashley Yan, she was 33 years old. Paul Andre Michaels was 54 years old. Xiaojie Tan was 49 years old. Daoyou Feng was 44 years old. And Stephanie, what else do we know about these women? One man was also killed and their lives today. You and I are talking on Thursday afternoon. Well, we know that six out of the eight murder victims were Asian women. We know that two of the victims were white. We know that one of the victims was actually getting a massage at the massage parlor in Cherokee County when she was killed. She was actually there with her husband on a date, and her husband survived the attack.

We have learned several of the names, but I'm still waiting to hear the others. I have learned several of the names, but I'm still waiting to hear the others. We believe that four of the victims had South Korean ancestry. And I would like to know more about these women. I think it's so important to understand that these are human beings and find a way to make human these victims as opposed to just the assumptions that might have arisen because of the imagery and because of what we think of being associated with the Asian massage parlor and all of that. And, you know, the fact that this did take place at three Asian businesses where Asian women worked, I think is really

quite profound as we think about racism and its role in these attacks. We do know that Asian women have been fetishized, exoticized, objectified for decades in mass media. Well, baby, me so horny. Me so horny. Me love you long time. It's Austin Powers! He's so funny. Yeah, you know.

Awesome, very sexy. Can I have autograph? Of course! Your name is? Fukumi. Oh, behave, baby. Can I have autograph? Of course. Your name is? Fulk me. Oh, behave, baby. And it is hard to disentangle that from race. And that is something that Asian American women, I think, are especially keenly aware of as we talk about the suspect and the motives behind what drove him.

So I do hope that we learn much more about the humanity behind each of these women, behind their families, where they came from. When I spoke with investigators, they interviewed him this morning, and they got that impression that, yes, he understood the gravity of it, and he was pretty much fed up at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him. And this is what he did. I want to talk a little bit with you about the police response to all of this. So as you mentioned, there has been a suspect, there has been much attention given to him, a 21-year-old man named Robert Aaron Long. He's now been charged with eight counts of murder and one count of assault. And there were criticisms of the police press conference on Wednesday.

First, how they characterized the accused. So Jay Baker from the Cherokee County Sheriff's Office said that the accused was, quote, pretty much fed up and at the end of his rope, he said, yesterday was a really bad day for him and this is what he did. And another officer said that he was, quote, lashing out. And what's been the reaction to that? It was such an outrageous and insensitive moment for Captain Jay Baker. And I think the way it was interpreted by a lot of people in the Asian American community was as

sympathy for this gunman who had just been charged with murdering eight people. He said that the suspect had had a bad day. And then it became known that Jay Baker was associated with a Facebook account in which he had posted a racist t-shirt basically attributing coronavirus to China, which was spelled on the t-shirt C-H-Y-N-A, and he bragged about this t-shirt. So it added yet another layer of racism, frankly, to this conversation as we try to figure out how the Atlanta massacre fits in to what has been happening in major cities across America in the last year, which is a marked rise in anti-Asian violence, anti-Asian harassment. Posts made on social media by Reginald Jackson were alarming.

References to beating up, robbing and blowing up Asians ahead of the start of the Lunar New Year. Watson is charged with murder and the death of 84-year-old Vicha Ratanapakti. The brazen attack happened last Thursday morning in the Anza Vista neighborhood, caught on surveillance video here. And you can see the suspect as he charged across the street and slammed into the victim who falls in the driveway. The victim's family believes the encounter was racially motivated. Watson is

scheduled. And in fact, the day that the Atlanta shootings happened, we had just gotten new data from the group Stop AAPI Hate that there were some 3,800 anti-Asian incidents that had been reported on the vast majority of them, over 70 percent, by women. And so, you know, we're really trying to figure out how to understand what happened in Atlanta on Tuesday in the context of what has been happening in big cities for the last year. And I want to come back to that with you in a moment. But first, the police were also criticized about how they talked about the motive. And I want to ask you about that, too, that he had a sexual addiction and then he wanted to eliminate his temptation. That's what he said.

He claims that these and as the chief said, this is still early, but he does claim that it was not racially motivated. that it was not racially motivated. He apparently has an issue, what he considers a sex eviction, and sees these locations as something that allows him to go to these places, and it's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate. Although they certainly didn't rule out racial motivation, but there's been a lot of anger about this as well. And can you talk to me a little bit more about that? I guess the way I would describe it, Jamie, is that there is a battle of narratives occurring with the real question being, how did these murderers of Asian women fit in to the surge in anti-Asian harassment?

And was this a racially motivated attack? And what is racial motivation? Asian Americans and others really don't feel satisfied with the explanation that this was just about sex and religion, because it's now being reported that Robert Aaron Long was a Christian who felt guilt. It was reported by one media outlet today that he had been in some sort of rehab for sexual addiction. Commentators who have studied Asian American history immediately began saying it is impossible to disentangle these murders, specifically targeting businesses run by Asian women from the fetishization of Asian women or the damaging stereotype that we are more submissive or weak. These were unarmed women. So I think what is happening is this battle of narratives. You know, I woke up this morning and somebody said, well, didn't they figure out this wasn't a racially

motivated attack, end of story. And I don't think it is. I think that this has catalyzed a broader conversation about how Asian American women fit into these conversations about systemic racism, how it permeates society, and how it affects this particular group. Vicious hate crimes against Asian Americans who've been attacked, harassed, blamed, and scapegoated. At this very moment, so many of them are fellow Americans. They're on the front lines of this pandemic trying to save lives. And still, still, they're forced to live in fear for their lives just walking down streets in America. It's wrong, it's un-American, and it must stop. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection.

Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I know there have been questions about whether or not this is going to be investigated as

and classified as a hate crime. And what's the latest on that on Thursday? Well, two things. As of yet, there hasn't been any evidence, clear evidence that has come to light that there was a racial motivation. We've received a number of calls about is this a hate crime? We are still early in this investigation. So we cannot make that determination. The investigation is continuing. The FBI is participating in that investigation. However, this crime has not been ascribed a hate crime designation. There is federal hate crime law, and hate crimes are notoriously difficult to prove. And part of what we're seeing right now is a discussion in Congress about how police can better identify what a hate crime is.

Stephanie, I want to come back to this context, this incredible, awful spike in hate crimes directed towards Asian Americans. And when we talk about these incidents, what are we talking about here? You know, I understand that there have been some very high profile cases in the US. Well, there are different levels of crime. So according to the group Stop AAPI Hate, which started tracking data around anti-Asian incidents, from verbal incidents to physical assaults to microaggressions, such as avoiding an Asian person on a sidewalk. They started tracking that data at the start of the pandemic when former President Trump started referring to coronavirus as Kung Flu or the China virus,

because anecdotally, there was a lot of reporting around Asian Americans describing harassment and assaults. Their latest data, which was released on the same day as the Atlanta shooting, showed that there had been more than 3,800 incidents of anti-Asian incidents. They say that the vast majority of those incidents are sort of verbal assaults. But there have been a number of high profile physical attacks and homicides, particularly against Asian elders in places like San Francisco and Oakland and Los Angeles and New York City and just here in Phoenix, where I am this week. The reason those have become so high profile is because there was video in several of these cases of elderly Asian people walking down the sidewalk and being shoved to the ground. So there are those types of crimes.

In Oakland's Chinatown, where I visited a few weeks ago to report on a perceived rise in anti-Asian crime, what was described to us by the police were crimes of opportunity. For example, during the Lunar New Year in February, there was a rash of high-profile incidents against Asian elders in Chinatown because there's a perception that elderly Chinese folks carry a lot of cash during the Lunar New Year to hand out to children in the form of red envelopes. And those were described as not necessarily racially motivated incidents. But you combine that with the examples of verbal harassment that we heard. You combine that with muggings that seem to be targeted specifically at Asian women. We interviewed such a woman in Oakland who was attacked.

And what it's led to is just a climate of terror, frankly, among a lot of Asian Americans, that there will be more of these. I just want to note for our listeners that this is not just happening in the United States. The Represent Asian Project in Canada says there has been a 717% increase in hate crimes against Asian people in Vancouver this year alone. So 12 incidents in 2019 and 98 incidents in 2020. You hear stories here from people being called the China virus to bank clerks refusing to serve Asian patrons. You know, Stephanie, can you tell me a little bit more about that climate of fear? What did the people in your piece say to you about that? They said that they would no longer let their moms go to the ATM machine alone.

They said that for the first time in their city, Oakland is like Vancouver, Jamie. It has a very large Asian population, new immigrants from Asian countries, as well as third, fourth, fifth generation Chinese and Japanese and Vietnamese, Laotian Americans that are there. They said that they felt singled out, that cars would pass by in their own neighborhoods while they were walking the dog and yell coronavirus at them. Awful. Yeah. For the first time, they were fearful that their very existence exposed them to the potential for violence.

There is a sense that there's a bullseye on Asian Americans, and I guess as you describe Asian Canadians as well. And that bullseye for us seems to have been attributed to the former president. But what we also heard is there are plenty of other times in American history when racial groups have been scapegoated. After 9-11, it was Muslim Americans. President Trump has singled out as the target of hate several groups during his presidency. It wasn't just Asians. It was at one point Muslims, then it was Mexicans, it was journalists, there were varying groups. And it's hard to find an Asian American who hasn't had an experience during the pandemic of at least a comment or a look or, you know, somebody walking down the street who decided to cross to the other side because they were approaching, being mask shamed, being shamed for wearing a mask. And it's just hard to find an Asian person who hasn't had some story to tell. And I think one of the things that's been highlighted in all these incidents is that even before the pandemic, there were always reminders that people viewed us as foreigners.

But you don't hear them talking about COVID. COVID. To be specific, COVID-19. That name gets further and further away from China as opposed to calling it the Chinese virus. You know, you've mentioned former President Donald Trump a few times in this conversation. On Friday, now President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, who is the first woman of Asian American descent to be the vice president, also the first woman, they will be meeting with Asian American leaders in Georgia. Having spoken to so many people who have been subjected to anti-Asian attacks, what do you think they might want to see from leadership at the top on this issue? Well, I think that there is such a dramatic change between the former president and President Biden's administration,

who has also decided to fly all federal flags at half-staff through Sunday, and, as you said, is meeting with Asian American leaders in Atlanta. And as you said, is meeting with Asian American leaders in Atlanta. I think that there are not easy solutions to systemic racism and that this is part of what black and brown communities are grappling with as well, which is the vestiges of extremely racist history in this country. I know that, you know, even the easiest battles seem tough in Washington. And so today, there were hearings on Capitol Hill around this issue. Representative Grace Meng basically said Asian Americans are traumatized. They're fearful for the lives. She said this community is bleeding and we've been screaming out for help. I want to go back to something that Mr. Roy said earlier. Your president and your party and your colleagues can talk about issues with any other country that you want. But you don't have to do

it by putting a bullseye on the back of Asian Americans across this country, on our grandparents, on our kids. This hearing was to address the hurt and pain of our community, to find solutions, and we will not let you take our voice away from us. not let you take our voice away from us. And there are a number of resolutions that Democrats, particularly in Congress, are attempting to pass to condemn anti-Asian hate. But I don't know that there is a clear legislative solution. Part of what has been really heartening is just to see that the racial reckoning conversation that really started in earnest after the killing of George Floyd last year, and the Black Lives Matter movement is now perhaps broadening to include Asian Americans and to recognize that racism exists in every community. It's not a binary issue. It's not just black and white. Asians need to reconcile with anti-blackness.

Black communities need to reconcile with anti-Asian-ness. And maybe this is the next step in what has been a national conversation about race in recent years. Stephanie Sy, thank you so much for this conversation. I'm so appreciative. Thank you. Thank you, Jamie. So before we go today, a significant update on the status of the two Michaels. On Wednesday, Foreign Affairs Minister Mark Garneau confirmed that Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig are scheduled for court dates. The two Canadians have been detained in China since 2018 on espionage charges that are widely recognized as retaliation for Canada's arrest of Huawei's Meng Wanzhou. So far, it's believed the Spavor's trial is set for March 19th and Kovrig's for March 22nd. The Canadian government has responded, speaking out about the lack of transparency and saying Canadian officials and the media have been banned from attending the trials. We'll be watching this story very closely, so please stay tuned, but that is all for this week.

FrontBurner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcast. The show is produced this week by Elaine Chao, Abiyan Abdegir, Shannon Higgins and Imogen Burchard. Our sound design was by Austin Pomeroy and Mackenzie Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Chabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of Frontburner is Nick McCabe-Locos. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you on Monday. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.