Front Burner - The downfall of the NRA's Wayne LaPierre

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

For more than three decades, Wayne LaPierre has led the National Rifle Association — turning gun policy into a deeply partisan political issue. But now, facing a civil trial on corruption allegations, he's announced his resignation. With membership and revenue dropping, could this be the end of the NRA? New York Times investigative reporter Danny Hakim explains the rise of one of America's most influential lobby groups — and how, even if this is the end, the NRA's biggest battles may have already been won. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Damon Fairless. To defeat the divisive forces that would take freedom away, I want to say those fighting words, to hear and to heed,

from my cold, dead hands. For years, the National Rifle Association has been synonymous with gun rights in the United States, thanks in part to the leadership of one man, Wayne LaPierre. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. LaPierre has been the CEO and Executive Vice President of the NRA since 1991,

but he'll be stepping down from that post at the end of the month. The official reason? Health concerns. But the announcement comes just as he's set to face a civil trial on allegations of corruption and misuse of funds.

It's just the latest in a series of legal battles the NRA has faced in recent years, all while bleeding membership and money. And it has some questioning whether the NRA's days as the face of American gun rights could be coming to an end. My guest today is Danny Hakim. He's an investigative reporter with the New York Times, and he's been covering the NRA for years, including this most recent trial. Hey, Danny, thanks for coming on FrontBurner.

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. So I want to get into the trial that's going on in a little bit. But I guess first I want to start talking a little bit more about Wayne LaPierre, you know, the man. You got this really rare opportunity back in 2019, and you wrote this long profile on him essentially for the New York Times magazine. So I guess I wanted to start out just getting a sense of what he's like. Like how would you describe Wayne Love here? Well, Wayne has led the National Rifle Association for more than three decades. And, you know, for most of his time as the leader, he's had this implacable image as the face of the gun rights movement.

But, you know, meeting him, it struck me that he's, you know, he really doesn't come off that way in person, much more soft-spoken, sort of professorial individual. He's actually not much of a gun person marksman himself. He's really more of a lobbyist than personally a gun enthusiast. Well, there's that, like on that note, there's that, I remember seeing this, I think the New Yorker came up with it a few years ago, but there's that, the kind of leaked video of, of, of Wayne Lepere and his wife with a guide in Africa and they were hunting an elephant. And I think that like, I was kind of bowled away because he, he's not good at gunning. Like he, he, he's pretty awkward. He didn't, you know, he didn't strike me as an enthusiastic hunter. I guess like, you know, didn't strike me as an enthusiastic hunter i i guess like you know i'm curious how a guy like that got involved with an organization that is so much about gun culture yeah well and just just to provide a little more detail there i mean that was

video of him trying to shoot an elephant at point-blank range during a safari. Come forward. Now sit on your... There we are. I'll shoot you. I'll shoot him. Same spot? And he had trouble doing that, and someone had to come and help him. I don't think he's quite done yet. You want to do it?

I'll let him do it. What am I doing? I'm not sure where you're shooting. Where are you telling me to shoot? So, yeah, he's not... And, you know, he and I even talked about that, you know, when I interviewed him. He talked about how that's been sort of a knock against him. It's one reason, I think, why he did – he went on safaris like that. Lobbying is a profession and a lot of lobbyists take on issues that, you know, are not necessarily things that are central to their interests.

And, you know, I think that's what happened here, though. He is certainly, when you get him talking about the theory side of guns and Second Amendment issues, he's certainly very passionate about that. But, you know, he's a lobbyist. And this is the lobbying firm that he's run and really made a central part of American culture for many years. There would be no firearm freedom in the world if it weren't for America. There would be no firearm freedom in America if it weren't for the Second Amendment. And there would be no Second Amendment, especially in Bill Clinton's America, if it weren't for you, the members of the National Rifle Association. One of the things that I actually wasn't aware of is the NRA as we know it now, it's politics, it's mandate. That really started to take shape back in the 70s. But before

that, it was really quite different. Can you help me understand a little bit about what it was like prior to the 70s when the kind of modern NRA as we know it evolved? Sure. The NRA started after the American Civil War. And it was founded by a couple of veterans in New York State who were looking for a group that could help improve marksmanship. One of the founders was actually a newspaperman who'd been a New York Times correspondent at one point. But it started as a marksmanship group. And really for the bulk of its history, it was focused not on politics in Washington, but on marksmanship and gun training and wildlife issues. And then in the 1970s, there was a real power struggle within the organization.

There was a real power struggle within the organization, and it became a much more politically focused group. It became a real division within the group, and the people who wanted to make it more political are the ones who prevailed. And then the group really focused on building a lobbying operation in Washington, working closely. At first, it really worked closely with both Republicans and Democrats to push back against gun control efforts. It had a number of prominent lawmakers who were allies. At the same time, they were building their membership, becoming a grassroots group as well. At their height, they had nearly 6 million members. They started giving letter grades to everybody in Congress, which became a real pressure point for people who were looking to gain their favor.

They wanted to have that A grade from the NRA. The NRA believes that America's laws were made to be obeyed and that our constitutional liberties are just as important today as 200 years ago. The Constitution does not say that government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So we've seen since that push as a lobbying group, there's been an enormous change in the political climate in the States. And at one point, Congress was able to enact a ban on assault weapons.

And that seems unthinkable now. So I guess I'm curious what the NRA's role in that political shift was. Well, in my mind, that's really sort of the arc of Wayne LaPierre's tenure. At the beginning of his tenure, Congress passed, as you said, an assault weapons ban. This was in 1994, I believe it was signed into law. This day is the beginning, not the end of our effort to restore safety and security to the people of this country. effort to restore safety and security to the people of this country. It was a temporary ban. You know, that was obviously a defeat at the time. Now, to do that now, as you said, it would be unthinkable for Republicans to support that kind of measure. And there just hasn't been, there hasn't been any significant gun control law passed on the federal level for a number of years. And that I do think you have to give credit to LaPierre and the NRA, you know, for creating that dynamic. I mean,

so he had that loss early in his career as the chief of the NRA, but then he steadily built, you know, they steadily built influence. And one thing they did is, rather than being bipartisan, instead they made a strategic shift and really inculcated themselves deeply into the Republican Party. So it became a partisan issue, essentially. It became a deeply partisan issue. And so, you know, about 10 years after that assault weapons ban passing, they had what I think was probably the NRA's biggest triumph. I think it was in 2005 when Congress passed a liability shield, which made it very difficult to sue gun makers when crimes occur. It was a major victory. It was the NRA's number one

priority for years. So that just shows you the shift that took place in that decade. And so I guess to put a finer point on it, and you're suggesting that Wayne LaPierre's role in the NRA, was it like a vital part of that shift into making the NRA's mandate essentially a partisan issue and saddling up with the Republicans? Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, he was the head of the organization for this whole period when this strategic shift took place. And so, you know, I think the bet he made was that they would be better served by really dominating one party rather than trying to word both. And also just making it very difficult for any Republican candidate to turn against the NRA. It just became very difficult for that to happen.

So going back to this federal, you know, ban on assault weapons, that to happen. So going back to this federal ban on assault weapons, that expires. And then after that, in the period after that, we see this fairly significant surge in the states of mass shootings. So how did LaPierre and the NRA respond to that rise? Well, it was striking because you had all these mass shootings. And I think one of the most prominent was the one that happened their perspective, you know, if not now, when, when, when all our, you know, when so many children are getting shot, but it didn't, it didn't really happen. And the, you know, the NRA's posture was just to take, despite all these mass shootings, to continue to take a hard line to say that, you know, the second amendment is the second amendment. And, you know, we can't

give any significant ground on these issues. Politicians pass laws for gun-free school zones. And in doing so, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk. I remember up here saying something like, you know, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Was that part of that response to the school shootings? I think that, you know, it's that kind of rhetoric that's really been central to the NRA for many years. And that's, you know, I think they've, you know, one way they raise money and fire up their base of supporters is by making them angry.

They're certainly not the only group that does that. And so that's the kind of rhetoric that they've used over the years. We can't wait for the next unspeakable crime to happen before we act. We can't lose precious time debating legislation that won't work. We mustn't allow politics or personal prejudice to divide us. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together.

To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So, you know, there's Wayne LaPierre and his leadership, you know, at the helm, he's kind of guided the NRA into this juggernaut of gun lobbying in the States. But there's also kind of in the background, this other partner in this whole transformation too. And that's the NRA's partnership with a marketing firm called Ackerman McQueen. So can you tell me about them, about that relationship? Sure. They were the longtime PR and advertising firm, Oklahoma-based, for the NRA. And it was Ackerman that really built this image of Wayne LaPierre as the strong and

fiery leader of the group. They would write his speeches that he would give, which were full of red meat to fire everyone up. They really gave the NRA its voice for many years during the LaPierre era, I would say during the heyday of the LaPierre era. So, but there's been a major falling out between the NRA and Ackerman McQueen over the last few years. So, and I know it's really quite complex. We don't have time to get into the whole thing, but can you kind of briefly help me understand the spat that's going on there? Yes. So, Ackerman was this, you know, the most important contractor the NRA has had for many And then around 2018, a falling out occurs. And, you know, a key issue is that Ackerman has been used, you know, was used in addition to doing PR and marketing. There was a lot of billing that LaPierre himself would do through Ackerman McQueen. Ackerman McQueen. So he had a credit card from the contractor and he would bill things through the company, which would make it more difficult to trace expenses. So around 2018,

2019, these two groups are at odds. The attorney general in the state of New York begins an investigation in 2019. And even, this is Letitia James, who's the New York Attorney General. And even while she's running for office, before she is the Attorney General in 2018, she's threatening to investigate. These individuals in the NRA are charged with failing to manage the NRA's funds and failing to follow numerous state and federal laws, which contributed to the loss of more than $64 million in just three years. So they know this is coming. The NRA hires a new lawyer to sort of prepare them for this.

That's William Brewer, yeah? That's Bill Brewer, yes. And so he starts taking a number of steps to prepare the NRA for this. That's William Brewer, yeah. That's Bill Brewer, yes. And so he starts taking a number of steps to prepare the NRA for this, to take a look at their bookkeeping and oversight practices. And as part of that, there's a falling out with Ackerman McQueen. Okay. So now this kind of all brings us to the present day. Wayne LaPierre is now facing a civil trial. Take me through what he's been accused of. allegations are that he spent, and this really hasn't been disputed, that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars at a boutique in Beverly Hills, the Zegna Boutique. And even on one particular day, he spent around $40,000 in a single day at this boutique, which- That's a lot of ties.

That's a lot of ties. I don't know about you, but that's a lot more than I've spent shopping for suits. Wow. So what else has he been accused of spending this NRA money on? There's also travel around the world to places like Lake Como, the Bahamas, places all over that he traveled to and what was he doing there like I mean he's I know he's argued that these were legitimate business expenses but what is he doing

in Lake Como and Palm Beach and Reno and all the places he's gone right well I think that's the question I mean I think the allegation is that he was vacationing the you know what he has said to me is there were some legitimate business connection at each place he went to that was part of those trips.

So that's what's going to have to be sorted out. There were also a number of trips he took to super yachts owned by one of the NRA's contractors. And again, these were in the Bahamas. So again, that's part of what's going to be hashed over this trial. And then there were private jet flights that he took, which were quite expensive. And there are even times when there were private jets chartered when he wasn't even present for the flights, where it was just his family members flying. So that's definitely something that's going to be. That's already come up at the trial. And it isn't just LaPierre.

The people kind of in his orbit, too. There's some pretty astounding things. I know his aide, Millie Hallow, was kept on after being caught deferring $40,000 in NRA funds to her son's wedding and some other personal expenses. There's some exorbitant, I think a $26,000 a month retainer fee for his personal travel agent. So in his field of influence, there was a lot of this stuff going on as well, right? True, very? True.

Very much so. The woman you referred to, Millie Hallow, who was his close aide for many, many years, when the NRA hired her, she was already a convicted felon related to misusing funds from another charity. And again, this already came up in the trial the other day. charity. And again, this already came up in the trial the other day. Attorney General's office was talking about how she continued to misuse funds, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in funds at the NRA to divert it for a variety of personal uses. And LaPierre's presumably new as well? You know, presumably, presumably, you know, I think, again, we'll get more detail about that as the trial unfolds.

Again, this is a civil suit. This is not a criminal investigation. So it's, you know, there's not a threat of jail in this litigation. And just to be clear, the New York attorney general has jurisdiction over the NRA because it was set up in New York. Okay. So this case is predicated on accusations of corruption, financial mismanagement, but the NRA has said it's all about politics. And I know that James has said that she's seeking a dissolution case. So do you have a sense of what her underlying motivation is? Well, let me just talk about the NRA's argument a little bit.

While this is going on, they filed a federal lawsuit against the state of New York saying that they've had their First Amendment rights violated. Freedom of speech is the First Amendment. you know, is the First Amendment. And, you know, as part of that suit, they're saying that New York officials, and this is really more to do with the governor's office in New York, but they're alleging that, you know, New York state officials have been, you know, seeking to harm the NRA by putting pressure on banks and insurance companies not to do business with them. They paint sort of a broad picture of New York officials in general targeting the NRA for its political beliefs and say that this is not, you know, this is not a legitimate prosecution. It's just been politicized. And they point out

correctly, I would say, that Letitia James, the attorney general, was promising to go after the NRA before she was even elected. So they point to that and just say, well, that shows that this is just a political campaign against them. Whatever James's motivations are, and clearly she was someone who had issues with the NRA and its politics, but her case is about corruption and corrupt practices. And a lot of the revelations that have come out, I think probably will give pause to a judge in New York, just in terms of the kind of spending practices. So that's the challenge for the NRA, is explaining those away. What they've tried to say is once this investigation was going, or maybe even right before it started, but when it was clear that this was going to happen,

they started, Brewer came in, as I said, and started taking steps to try to reform the NRA to some extent. Yeah, to get it to clean house, essentially, right, with its spending practices. Yeah, because the writing was on the wall. So, I mean, a lot of these issues that Letitia James is pursuing here, you know, come back to LaPierre and his both his personal spending, but also spending practice and hiring practice within the NRA. What has he said about these accusations? Well, when I talked to him, you know, he had arguments for all these things. I mean, when I asked him, you know, why did you spend, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, on all these suits? He said, well, I was the face of the brand.

And our contractor, Ackerman McQueen, which was our PR firm, was telling me to do this. That was his contention there. When I asked him about his various travels around the world, I think the general, he came up with a rationale for each one of those, whether it was to Lake Como or to the Bahamas or wherever it was. But again, I think it's going to be for, we'll have to see if the court buys that argument when he makes it before them. And you've mentioned it's a civil trial, it's not a criminal trial. So what kind of repercussions could he be looking at if things don't go his way?

Well, he's already on the eve of the trial. And this was a surprise. He stepped down as the head of the NRA. So that was probably the biggest, you know, that was the biggest thing to be determined in the trial. So, you know, and not surprisingly, the attorney general was declaring victory right from the get-go because that is what she wanted. So he's already stepped down. Now she is seeking to have him officially barred from serving on nonprofits

going forward. So that's one thing. The other thing is she'd like him to write quite a large check. And this would be several hundred thousand dollars, if not more, potentially. Ironically, this check wouldn't go to the state. It would go back to the NRA because the idea is you're alleging this is a nonprofit that has been mismanaged. They've mismanaged donor funds. nonprofit that has been mismanaged. They've mismanaged donor funds. So you're trying to recoup the money that has been mismanaged and restore it to the nonprofit. That would have to be a really big check. But the sense I got from your reporting in particular is that, you know,

the NRA has been, it's been bleeding money. It's been, you know, its membership is really quite spectacularly reduced. So I guess I'm curious what the state of it is after these ongoing legal struggles, this infighting. Where does it stand as an organization? Well, it's really much diminished from what it was in its heyday. In the last, I think, five, six years, revenue has come down something like 40-some percent. The membership has come down in that period from nearly 6 million to about 4.2 million today. And also, it's just a much quieter organization than it was. It used to be very voluble,

either LaPierre or it had spokespeople who were always gaining a lot of attention, who went out on cable news. And it had its own TV station. It had its own kind of online network. All that's really gone now. To a large extent, it's lost its voice. And what you've seen is there are other gun rights groups that have come to the fore in its place. I think one of the things that strikes me here is that, so,

you know, the NRA seems it's certainly diminished. It may be failing as an organization, but not, it hasn't failed in terms of that organization's mandate, right? Like in terms of it did what it needed to do in terms of advocating for gun rights in the state. organization's mandate, right? Like in terms of it's, it's, it did what it needed to do in terms of advocating for gun rights in the state. So, so I guess even if this is the beginning of the end of the NRA, does it, does it really matter? I mean, has it, has it done its job? Well, yeah, I would say two things to that. One is I agree with you that despite all its troubles, you still can't get gun control passed at the federal level in the United States. So in that sense, and I do think the organization, the NRA, played the major role in creating that political dynamic. The second thing I would say

is, I don't think, you know, while it's in bad shape now, I think, again, ironically, on the other side of this trial and LaPierre's departure, you could come out of this with a revived NRA. Once they get past the problems around his leadership in the last few years, you know, there is potential for the organization to be revived. So I wouldn't write it off just yet. Danny, it was great talking to you. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it.

All right, that's all for today. Front Burner was produced this week by Rafferty Baker, Shannon Higgins, Joyta Sengupta, Matt Mews, and Derek Vanderwyk. Sound design was by Mackenzie Cameron and Sam McNulty. Music is by Joseph Shabison. Our senior producer is Elaine Chow. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos. And we want to give a special shout out this week to the newest member of the Frontburner family.

Our producer, Lauren Donnelly, gave birth recently to a healthy baby boy. And man, does that kid have an awesome head of hair. Congratulations, Lauren. I'm Damon Fairless. Frontburner will be back next week. Thanks for listening. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.