Front Burner - The dying days of Trump’s presidency

Episode Date: December 4, 2020

It's been a month since Joe Biden was voted in as the next president of the United States. But a lot has happened since then. There are the final weeks of Donald Trump's chaotic tenure, the importance of Georgia's runoff Senate race and the tensions that are dividing the Democrats even as they prepare to take power. Today, former CBC Washington correspondent Keith Boag joins us to get us up to speed.

Happy Holidays! I'm Frank Cappadocia, Dean of Continuous Professional Learning at Humber Polytechnic, and I'd like you to set a goal for 2025 to sharpen your skills and get promoted. Register for a professional designation, micro-credential, or certificate with Humber's Continuous Professional Learning and ignite your career journey this new year. Our experts deliver accelerated learning from resilience-based leadership to electric vehicle fundamentals in learning options that work with your ambitious lifestyle. Adapt, evolve, and excel. Go to humber.ca slash cpl to get started. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Best day of my life. Best day of the year. Best way to conclude 2020. I am so happy.

I feel like we've got rid of the trash. The people of this nation have spoken. They've delivered us a clear victory. So it's been about a month now since Joe Biden was voted in as the next president of the United States. But unsurprisingly, a lot has happened since then. This is not just about honoring the votes of 74 million Americans who voted for me. It's about ensuring that Americans can have faith in this election and in all future elections. So today, we're going to go back to the U.S. with help from former CBC

Washington correspondent Keith Boak. And we're going to talk about the final months of Donald Trump's chaotic tenure, the importance of Georgia's runoff Senate race, and the tensions that are dividing the Democrats, even as they prepare to take power. This is FrontBurner. Hi, Keith. It's so nice to have you back on so soon. Thanks so much for having me back. How are you? I'm great, thank you, and thanks so much for being here. So I want to start by talking about how President Trump is spending this last stretch of his presidency. It's unsurprisingly chaotic. And let's start with pardons. So last week,

Trump announced he was pardoning his former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, who has pleaded guilty twice to lying to the FBI about his conversations with the Russian ambassador to the US. The president on Twitter. It is my great honor to announce that General Michael T. Flynn has been granted a full pardon. I know you will now have a truly fantastic Thanksgiving. What do we know about who else he may pardon? Well, there's a lot of speculation about who else he might pardon that ranges from pretty much anyone who has demonstrated loyalty to Donald Trump and also experienced difficulties with the law. And they don't need to necessarily be part of his inner

sanctum, his White House group, or even his family, although those are all included. It could be people like, for instance, Julian Assange, who was the founder of WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks was identified as having played a significant role in 2016 election. And Donald Trump is remembered for having said repeatedly that I love WikiLeaks. We love WikiLeaks. Boy, they have really... WikiLeaks! WikiLeaks! WikiLeaks. You know, as I was getting off the plane, they were just announcing new WikiLeaks,

and I wanted to stay there, but I didn't want to keep you waiting. Most of it really has to do with people who are closer to him, some who are in prison right now. You've got Paul Manafort, the former campaign manager, who was investigated by the FBI. We're running a global scheme to avoid paying millions in taxes, defrauding banks. Manafort spoke for about four minutes telling the judge, I know it is my conduct that brought me

here. My life personally and professionally is in shambles. Convicted and sentenced to seven years, I think, in prison where he languishes now. He'd be looking for a pardon. Someone like Roger Stone, whose sentence was commuted, might be looking for a pardon anyway just to clear his name. But most of the hot speculation now is whether Trump will pardon members of his family in advance of them having been investigated or accused of anything. And then ultimately, will Trump pardon Trump? Will he pardon himself? Something that's never even been contemplated before is something that's under significant discussion right now as people weigh the pros and cons and constitutionality of him taking such a measure. This idea of a preemptive pardon, not just for himself, but also for his family. Like, can you even do that? I don't understand how that could work. Okay, so there are a couple of things to consider here.

First of all, the president has the power to grant a pardon to whomever he chooses. But the significance of that power is in the word grant. When you grant something, it's usually to someone else. You don't grant something to yourself. And so that's why it's considered that should he attempt to pardon himself, that will eventually be something that the courts might have to decide should a party seek standing to challenge that pardon. The other thing that's happening that's really interesting, though, I think is happening in in the Trump sympathetic media, particularly Fox News, where you see Sean Hannity, for instance, this week mooting the possibility that Trump should pardon not just himself, but also his whole family, anticipating that there might be a vengeful attorney general appointed by President Joe Biden after January 20th. If Biden ever became president, I'd tell Trump, pardon yourself and pardon your family.

These people are based on a phony dossier. So what they're doing, it seems to me, is preconditioning the public for an excuse to pardon the Trump family without necessarily saying that they're admitting that they are guilty of having committed any crimes, that it's really just protection against a vindictive incoming administration. Now, I mean, this is a strange thing for a number of reasons. First of all, Sean Hannity does not speak from nowhere.

He has a very close relationship with the President of the United States. It's likely something that he has discussed with the President personally. Second, it also plays into an idea of what the Attorney General's discussed with the president personally. Second, it also plays into an idea of what the attorney general's relationship with the president is. It's the Trump presidency that has made the attorney general's role a political role, with him first asking that his first attorney general, Jeff Sessions, do as he wished in terms of investigations. Democrats today saying Jeff Sessions was simply bobbing and weaving. The president, though, is praising Sessions' performance. This was a dramatic

day of testimony. The suggestion that I participated in any collusion is an appalling and detestable lie. And then subsequently, Sessions' replacement, William Barr, who has acted as someone very willing to carry the water for Donald Trump on political errands. But that's a conception of the relationship that is wholly Trump driven. It is not a normal conception of the relationship. The attorney general should not, must not, in fact, be subject to the political direction of the president. And Joe Biden has more or less said as much. You mentioned Bill Barr. I want to talk about him for a second. So, of course, Trump is still making these voter fraud claims.

This may be the most important speech I've ever made. He released this 46-minute speech online Wednesday where he just retreaded a lot of misinformation he and his team have been making for weeks now. This even though all the states where he contested the results have been certified. We used to have what was called Election Day. Now we have Election Days, weeks and months, and lots of bad things happened during this ridiculous period of time. But this drumbeat has now put him at odds, it seems,

with some of his most loyal allies, including his Attorney General, Bill Barr. And so how has that happened? Well, at the heart of the problem is the outlandishness of the claims that the president is making about voter fraud. I mean, they're just not credible at all. The Trump team has been in court, represented often by Rudy Giuliani, making claims about voter fraud or irregularities in the election. But none of those claims that they make in court where they would have to be able to present evidence and swear to the truth of it under oath resembles what they're saying in public. Kind of funny that all Republicans were rejected here and all Republicans were rejected in Pittsburgh. And it amounts to about, gee, just about the 700,000 votes that President Trump was ahead by two days ago that disappeared.

They don't have much of a case. The judges that have looked at it have said, like, you shouldn't even be bringing this. And they've dismissed those cases with prejudice, meaning they've dismissed them and said, no, don't bring this back again. This is not appealable. Think very carefully about your next move, but get out of here. That's a very different thing from what's happening in public where Trump has created this fantasy about a stolen election that apparently somewhere between 70 and 80 percent of Republicans now believe. Now, as my buddy Steve Bannon says, if you're going to lie, be believable about it because you do not have 138,000 votes come in and 135,000 of them come in for Biden. It's not over yet. I have friends who believe that Joe Biden is now president. It's not true. But the challenge for William Barr, to get back to your point,

is what does he do in the midst of all of this? Well, what he did this week was say that he has seen, as Attorney General, no evidence to support the claims that the president is making about the election being stolen. Clearly, he does not believe that what the president is saying is true. In an interview with the Associated Press, he said, quote, to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election. Nevertheless, he is now experiencing probably for the very first time what it's like to be on the wrong side of the president when it comes to the president's followers. And he has been the subject of ridicule and anger and hostility and threats from the people he thought he was aligned with in his support of Trump. he thought he was aligned with in his support of Trump. They've tossed him under the bus like just about anybody else that winds up having to cross Trump

simply in order to maintain some shred of respectability or maintain a solid relationship with the facts. But something very important is happening within the Republican Party as you see people like William Barr finally saying enough is enough. We can't go along this far. This is just too much. Keith, I want to circle back to the Republican Party in just a moment. But first, you mentioned 70 to 80% of Republicans believe Trump's claims. And while he hasn't been able to overturn the election results, he has been very successful at using these voter fraud claims to raise money.

And can you talk to me a little bit about what this money is for? It's a grift, plain and simple and transparent if anybody wants to look at it. He's asking to raise money in his battle to overturn the results of the election because the election is fraudulent. Okay, so I think we have dealt with the fact that that's simply not true. But what he's concocting is a need for legal representation and all kinds of fee-generating processes and so on that people can help him out with if they donate to his cause. But his cause is cloaked in a political action committee whereby if you donate a dollar to the Trump Defense Fund or the Trump Legal Action Fund to restore democracy to America,

or whatever they want to call it, about 75% of that just goes to his political action fund. 25% might go to paying legal fees. So that's what I mean when I say that it's a grift. To the extent that he is using election fraud as a tool to raise money, that would appear to be the manifestation of it. To the extent that he's using election fraud for other purposes that are not unrelated to that, for instance, creating a narrative that the election was stolen for him so that he can continue to nurture this grievance over the next two, three or four years and possibly even build another presidential campaign on it. None of that is discountable either. And finally, I think we know enough about the personality of Donald Trump by now to know how fragile his ego is and that he is clearly having trouble accepting the fact that he's been rejected by a majority of the people who voted in the last election. Happy Holidays.

I'm Frank Cappadocia, Dean of Continuous Professional Learning at Humber Polytechnic, and I'd like you to set a goal for 2025 to sharpen your skills and get promoted. Register for a professional designation, micro-credential, or certificate with Humber's Continuous Professional Learning and ignite your career journey this new year. Our experts deliver accelerated learning from resilience-based leadership to electric vehicle fundamentals. And learning options that work with your ambitious lifestyle. Adapt, evolve, and excel. Go to humber.ca slash cpl to get started. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share

with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So I want to circle back to the Republican Party now and talk about Georgia. So there will be these two runoff races in January that will decide which party controls the Senate. Georgia

is well on its way to solidifying its status as a blue state. I know you're going to be on side with me as we push forward to keep the Senate in Republican hands. It may come down to this. me as we push forward to keep the Senate in Republican hands. It may come down to this. So Georgia is now the center of the US political universe. I read like 300 million bucks is being sunk into ads there. I'm just imagining this state just inundated with political advertisements. I understand that Trump's ongoing allegations of voter fraud are putting the two Republican senators there in a bit of a bind. And can you tell me about that? Yeah, well, I mean, the way you framed it is exactly right. It's not only an extremely important Senate election, special election or runoff election. But to add into that

the fact that the Republicans are virtually paralyzed about what to do with Donald Trump's allegations of voter fraud because they don't want to anger him enough so that he doesn't do the one thing they still believe he's very powerful at doing, which is get out Republican voters when they need him. So they're stuck in this place. Mitch McConnell, leader of the Senate, for example, has not been very outspoken, or he hasn't been outspoken at all. I mean, he hasn't condemned the president for trying to undermine American democracy, although it's absolutely clear that that's what the president is doing. Mitch McConnell is fine with that, because to criticize Trump would be

to alienate him at this very critical moment where they need his support. They need the team to play like a team in Georgia. So I mean, it's just fascinating to watch all of this stuff. And, you know, I think Canadians who watch some American programming would probably have noticed that they're seeing ads for at least the Democratic Senate challengers in this race, which is very unusual because it means that those Democrats are trying to raise funds nationally. simply because it is so important and the Democrats know it and there's money there to be poured into this campaign, not just in Georgia by any stretch, but from all over America. It's a huge, huge deal, this. Right, right. I mean, if the Democrats could take Georgia,

they would have the trifecta, the White House, the Congress, and the Senate. All of this messiness in Georgia for the Republicans, is this an opening potentially for the Democrats? What might it mean for the Democrats in Georgia? Yeah, I think it definitely is an opening for the Democrats in Georgia. First of all, they won the state in a statewide vote for president. The final projections, including Georgia for Joe Biden. David, Biden has done what no other Democratic candidate has been able to do in some 28 years, turn Georgia blue. And that has to do with a lot of effort on the ground in organizing Democratic constituencies to get out and vote. And it has paid off. Georgia was a huge win for

Joe Biden. But, you know, those people who are now going back to the well and asking, can you voters come out again for us on January 5th, have an enormous argument to make to those people to persuade them. We just won Georgia for Joe Biden. You can do it again. So Republicans know that. They know that that Democratic turnout in the election was huge in November and will be huge again in January. And the only way that they can meet it is by being united. And instead, what Donald Trump is doing is dividing them. Now, he's down there on the weekend to try to drum up support, and they'll be encouraged by that, maybe. It's getting difficult, I think, to say for sure how helpful Donald Trump can be in this or whether he's just a drag for everybody. Moving on to the Democrats, they are preparing to transition into the presidency.

And President-elect Joe Biden has now announced some of his cabinet picks. It's a team that reflects the fact that America is back, ready to lead the world, not retreat from it. Once again, sit at the head of the table, ready to confront our adversaries and not reject our allies. What do these appointments signal to you so far? What do they tell you? Well, I think the main thing that they tell you is that there is a democratic establishment entrenched in Washington that has been a kind of government in waiting for the entire Trump presidency, and it is now being mobilized and put on the field. And you see that in some of the choices, which when you look at them and they're confirmed, you see, well, that was predictable, wasn't it? I'm thinking of Janet Yellen going from the Fed, where she was the chair of the Federal Reserve, to become the Treasury Secretary in a Biden government.

Janet is one of the most important economic thinkers of our time. secretary in a Biden government. Janet is one of the most important economic thinkers of our time. She spent her career focused on employment and the dignity of work, which is really important to me and to all of us. The same could be said of the Secretary of State and other appointments. I think it is more the kind of thing that you would expect a president who is known to be more of a centrist than a leftist within the Democratic Party to make those kinds of appointments. There is an explanation for it that doesn't necessarily rely upon Biden's own sort of orientation within the party as a centrist.

And that is because of the uncertainty of the Senate and who will control it. And the Senate, of course, will confirm. Most of the people that Joe Biden appoints to his administration will be confirmed by the Senate or not. And he has to be at least mindful of the fact that if the Democrats don't get control of the Senate, then he's going to have to be presenting people for confirmation that are acceptable to the Republican majority, which, of course, is going to be a very difficult majority for him to move to maneuver, just because they always are. Right, right. Although I guess this brings me to a question about the progressive side of the party, the left wing of the party. I know that there were certainly hopes that someone like an Elizabeth

Warren or Bernie Sanders would make it into this cabinet, and that there are these lingering tensions now between the wings of the Democratic Party. And can you tell me about what's happening inside the party right now? Okay, so what happened on November 3rd was that even though Joe Biden won the presidency, and won it handily, I think the count is now up to a 7 million vote margin, there was great disappointment within the Democratic Party that they didn't do better down ballot, that they didn't do better in terms of the House in

particular, where they lost seats, certainly didn't do better in the Senate, where they didn't capture the majority. But even more important than all of that, that they didn't do better in recovering state legislatures or governorships, where they might actually have some control over how electoral districts are defined over the next 10 years and so on. All of these disappointments added up to, for some people, a repudiation of the leftward drift of the party. Now, you know, what some people say is that it's thanks to lefty Democrats who were talking about defunding the police instead of using language that was much more acceptable, who were talking about single-payer health care instead of understanding that Americans are not naturally inclined in that direction.

Those are the people who cost us this election. Whether that's a fair thing, I mean, one reason to doubt that that's a fair thing is that the remarkable thing about the 2020 election seems more likely to be that the turnout that Donald Trump generated was amazing on both sides. Now, I think I've said on this podcast before that I had always suspected that Donald Trump motivated both bases, but he motivated Democrats more. How important is this election, would you say? Very important. To us, it's a matter of life and death. One vote can make a change. It could be the straw to break the camel's back.

I just want to get him out of the office, and I'm hoping that this change will happen. And I think November the 3rd proved that to be true. It could simply be the logical consequence of what happens when Republicans are given the choice of expressing their displeasure with Trump by voting against him, but protecting their Republican bona fides by voting down the ballot for Republicans. At this stage, you know, we really don't know enough about what the voting intentions of people

grew when they went into the ballot booth. But in the meantime, Democrats are going to do something that they are particularly good at, which is chew each other up and accuse each other of letting down the team at the last minute. I'd like to end this conversation sort of where we began it, talking about these possible pardons. And you mentioned before that Biden, he has not yet chosen an attorney general. And that attorney general could potentially play an important role in whether or not Donald Trump or anyone around him is prosecuted. Do we have any sense of what direction that may be heading in at this point? Look, it's been a rough four years and Democrats, some of them are feeling vindictive about it,

but most of them at least are feeling very curious about it in the sense they want to know what happened. And it's going to be up to this administration to decide how it's going to handle that question. And the instrument for handling that question is going to be the Attorney General. That being said, already you see speculation in newspaper opinions that it would be the wrong thing for the Biden administration to appear to be going after their political enemies. So in terms of an appointment as Attorney General, I wouldn't look for somebody who might be perceived as having an axe to grind. It might send the wrong kind of signal that there's a vendetta being exercised. So I'm sure if I can figure that out, Joe Biden will have thought of it long before I did.

There should be no decision by the president about investigating his political enemies or prosecuting them, but it's something he should bear in mind when he's appointing an attorney general. All right, Keith Vogt, thank you as always. Really appreciate you coming by. As always, thank you for inviting me. Until next time. All right, so a little vaccine news before we go today. On Thursday, Health Canada Senior Advisor Dr. Supriya Sharma told the CBC's The Current that Health Canada could be in a position to approve Pfizer's vaccine very soon. It's a bit difficult to say exactly the date because we're still getting, as we said, information submitted by the company.

But things have been progressing really well and we're expecting within the next sort of week to 10 days to be making a final decision. Right now, Health Canada is reviewing four vaccines, Pfizer's as well as vaccines from Moderna, AstraZeneca and Janssen. In other vaccine news, former NATO Commander Major General Danny Fortin also addressed the public yesterday. Fortin is in charge of leading vaccination logistics and operations in Canada. He said that Canada is facing unprecedented logistical complexities, but that the military will be ready to deploy vaccines as soon as they are approved and received. In short, our plan is to secure movement of the

vaccine supply chain from manufacturer to each of those individuals. So we're very much collaborating at an unprecedented level with stakeholders and partners to plan and execute a timely, fair, well-synchronized distribution of vaccines to all Canadians. The initial supply of doses will be limited. Three million Canadians are currently expected to get shots in the first three months of 2021, though of course that could change. All right, that's all for this week. Frontburner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Elaine Chao, Shannon Higgins,

Allie Janes, and Jasmine Manny. Our sound design was by Derek Vanderwyk and Mandy Sham. Our music is by Joseph Chabison, a boombox sound. The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much, and we'll talk to you next week. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.