Front Burner - The front lines of the Taliban's offensive in Afghanistan

Episode Date: August 11, 2021

The Taliban continues to gain territory at a rapid pace, as the U.S. army and NATO forces withdraw from Afghanistan. Journalist Akhtar Mohammad Makoii takes us to Herat, a city contested by Taliban and government forces.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. I'm Jonathan Mopetze, in for Jamie Poisson. In the last few days, the Taliban has taken control of at least eight provincial capitals in Afghanistan. There's been escalating violence with these offensives.

According to the United Nations, at least 183 civilians have been killed so far, with over 1,000 injured, many of them children. This comes as the U.S. is quickly pulling its troops from the country after 20 years of war. The drawdown is proceeding in a secure and orderly way, prioritizing the safety of our troops as they depart. And in this context, speed is safety. Leading to criticisms that they have given the Taliban the upper hand. And now, as the Taliban takes territory, the U.S. is carrying out airstrikes in the region to help the Afghan government hold on to power.

These strikes have reportedly targeted Taliban positions, but many civilians have been caught in the middle of the heavy bombing. Akhtar Mohammed Mokhoi is a reporter at the heart of this escalating conflict. We're calling him in the city of Herat, the capital of Herat province, and one of the critical cities that is contested by Taliban and government forces. I spoke with him yesterday afternoon. Akhtar, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you. It's my pleasure.

So why don't we begin by having you describe the situation in Herat right now. Well, Herat city in Western Afghanistan has been in complete besieged of the Taliban for the past month now. On the outskirts of Herat, government forces try to hold off the Taliban. We are defending our land. We're not moving forward at this time because we don't want civilians to be killed or injured. It's now a contested region. I go into the latest maps. Taliban are active in out outer skirts. Herat city is still under government control. In early July, Taliban have captured all of the province's 18

districts and now only Herat city with two districts along the highway toward the airport remain under government control. From Herat until Kandahar, the entire highway is now under the insurgent group. That makes many people here in Herat concerned about the outcome of this new victory for the Taliban. Yeah, so maybe you could describe a bit more how people are reacting to this latest turn of events, especially in Herat, where you are.

People are desperate, actually. Many people are leaving. Many are deciding to leave. The only safest way to leave Herat city is the international airport, the Herat international airport. And now many people, over the past week, 8,000 people left Herat city using a plane, and only 2,000 entered Herat city, according to latest statistics.

We know the U.S. has sent warplanes to Afghanistan to try and slow down the insurgents. And now the U.S. and Afghan army are bombing Taliban centers of power, including Herat province. What impact is that having on the conflict? It does a huge impact on the conflict. Two weeks ago, Taliban captured the strategic district of Gujarat here in Herat province, which is along the way to the airport. And that made the airport shut for two days. And Taliban were advancing toward the city, toward the Herat city to capture it.

But overnight, the Americans B-52s airstriked them over the city's gate. And a B-52 bomber was flying over Herat City all overnight two weeks ago. And those bombers have huge impact on the war here. But that will not be sustainable. When I announced our drawdown in April, I said we would be out by September. And we're on track to meet that target. Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st. Akhtar, I'm wondering if you could describe for us

why Herat province is such critical territory for the Taliban. Because Herat province, first, is economically important for the Taliban. They are now taking good control over the borders or the customs posts with Turkmenistan and Iran and now receiving tax and the money from those borders are now going to their pockets, which is huge money for the 50% of Afghan revenues are now going to the Taliban's pockets. They use that money to recruit, to buy weapons and anything they want. Taliban's pockets. They use that money to recruit, to buy weapons and anything they want. Another issue that the Herat city is important for the Taliban is that Herat connects them,

southern Afghanistan, to the north. If they have control over Herat province, they can easily take the city of Mazar-e-Sharif, which is the most populous and important city in the north. In case they have control over the city of Herat, their forces can flood from southern Afghanistan, from Kandahar to the northern Afghanistan very easily. So, Akhtar, can you give us the latest news from the front lines? I understand Herat now is contested and you just minutes earlier, you confirmed a couple of other cities have just been seized by the Taliban. Yes, the very strategic city of Pulih Kumri in the northern Afghanistan, which is a provincial capital of Baghlan province, has fallen to the Taliban just last hour, 40 minutes ago. That is a very strategic city for the Taliban.

You should cross one more province to reach into Kabul. It's one province before the capital, Kabul. And they also seized another important city in the west this afternoon, the city of Farah, the provincial capital of the same province with the same name. That borders with Iran. So the Taliban also seized another custom post there with the Iranian border. So now they are on the northern Afghanistan because in the 1990s, when they were advancing for the first time, they saw the safety and very heavy clashes with heavy resistance in the northern Afghanistan.

Now they are trying to take over those provinces first and then focus on the southern provinces, like cities like Lashkaga or Kandahar City and other eastern provinces. So the latest are these two more provinces. So now the number is eight. Eight provincial capitals failed the Taliban since Friday. And what's their overall goal here? Are they eventually going to take Kabul? Is that the endgame?

They are asking the current president, Hashraf Ghani, to resign. Then they will come to bring a peaceful resolution. But on front lines, that is not correct. These fighters are not ready to deal with the Afghan government. They call it a puppet government installed by the American forces and the international forces here. And so they are now doing what they were doing 20 years ago, just advancing, taking one province after another to take the Kabul at last. You mentioned the peace talks that were underway between the Taliban and the Afghan government.

They had been ongoing for several months without much progress. Where does this, the events of recent days, where does that leave that those peace talks? Actually, those peace talks are now suspended. Only today, the head of Peace and Reconciliation Office fly to Qatar to meet with Taliban officials. The United States has confirmed that it is sending its envoy, Zalmay Khalilzad, to Qatar to hold talks over three days to try to bring an end to the current Taliban offensive in Afghanistan. But for the past several weeks, the talks have already have actually been suspended. No talks happened between the Afghan government and the Taliban.

That's why the Taliban are now advancing. Some months ago, Taliban asked for the release of 7,000 of its prisoners from the Afghan government presence to announce a ceasefire. Government rejected that, and in response, Taliban intensified their attacks. So do you think the Taliban will return to the peace talks after they have claimed large amounts of territory, or for them, the peace process is a thing of the past, it's in the garbage? or for them the peace process is a thing of the past, it's in the garbage? That's the question. That is the question for many debates in Kabul.

Taliban are advancing. They may not need the negotiation anymore. They are now winning the war with fighting, not talking. So that's the question in Kabul. People are asking that. We are seeing that Taliban are advancing as much as they can. They are taking eight provinces just in four days. So that is a concerning point. When Taliban are advancing, they may not be interested in talking.

And of course, they will have an upper hand in talks if they decide to sit down. So, you know, back in the 90s, the Taliban were known for its brutal regime. There were public executions. Women weren't able to go to school. You're watching a front row seat to the Taliban taking over cities and districts and provinces again. What are they doing now that they're back in power in different parts in Afghanistan? Its officials, if you can call them officials in Qatar, are claiming that they are changed. They are not the people of 20 years ago, 25 years ago. But actually in action in the districts in Afghanistan underground, they are the same people.

They are now slashing women for what they call adultery. They are cutting people's hands for robbery. So they are claiming on Twitter that we are changed, but in action they are not. I have worked on several pieces about the people living under Taliban control. They told me that they are the same people they were 20 years ago. A sea of people floods the capital, pushed from their homes by the Taliban. under Taliban control. They told me that they are the same people they were 20 years ago. A sea of people floods the capital, pushed from their homes by the Taliban.

One of my grandchildren was hit by a bullet and I couldn't find a cemetery, so I put him in a hole. They took one of my sons by the head as if he was a sheep, cut off his head with a knife and threw his head away. I don't know if my son's body has been eaten by dogs or if anyone has buried him. We've seen that the Taliban make really rapid advances over the last several days.

Akhtar, why have the Taliban been so successful militarily? Previously, there were American and international forces on the ground helping the Afghan security personnel. But over the last years, since 2020, when the deal is done with the Americans, international forces are just advising and in some cases airstriking. Now everything is on the shoulder of Afghanistan, new security forces. They should deal with the current security situation we have. John Kirby, Pentagon spokesman last night,

who said that it's now for Afghans to take over their own country. This is their struggle. The commander-in-chief has given us a new mission, and that mission is to draw down by the end of this month, and that's where we're moving to. What it looks like beyond that, I'm simply not going to speculate, but this is their country. These are their military forces. These are their provincial

capitals. Their people to defend. So that's why the security forces are now even losing hope when they hear such things from Americans. How are local Afghan officials responding to the resurgence of the Taliban?

They are mostly here, at least here in Herat, they are mostly relied on local strongmen. Here in Herat, Ismail Khan, a civil war era warlord is mobilizing people, asking people to come out. He, two months ago, he actually asked everybody in Herat, men and women, with a

gun, to come out and defend the city. His men are now game makers here. Those local militia, Herat city may fall soon. And that's the case for other provinces. They call it people uprising. Local people, just ordinary people picking up guns,

and then they say we should go and defend the city. That's why the city are falling. They are not trained. So when they go to front lines, they retreat just very simply after a huge clash. So is that to say that the resistance right now, the strongest resistance to the Taliban is coming from local warlords and local militias

who are organizing against them? Yes, in several provinces, not in entire Afghanistan, but in several big cities, including Herat. It sounds that the history repeats itself again here. Akhtar, how much popular support exists for the Taliban among civilians in Afghanistan? In big cities like Herat, Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif, they have not much support. But in districts, in rural areas, they have support. They have support of the people. We have seen that when they go somewhere and capture some

district, people of Tasrik coming to them and congratulating them, congratulating them, hugging them. But that's only in rural areas, because in rural areas, people are not very educated, and the only thing they saw was Taliban and

just cutting hands. They say Taliban brings us justice, so that's why we like them. But in big cities, people are not supporting them, actually. Many of them are picking up guns to go and defend the cities because they know that Taliban will restrict them. They are against liberty. They will not allow women to go outside and everything like this. In big cities, Taliban have no support.

I'll see you next time. through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision years. And I was reading this New York Times piece this morning, and there was this quote

that really jumped out at me from an Afghan expert named Orzala Neymat, who said, you made this country extensively dependent in every aspect for 20 years. And then one day you decide this is the time and you leave without securing it to be able to make any progress. Do you hear people saying the international community made the Afghan state too dependent on outside forces? When the international forces intervened in Afghanistan 20 years ago, it was their struggle. But now when they're leaving Afghanistan without any security or stability, without any peaceful resolution, it's Afghans' struggle. Many people on the streets will say it's a struggle for the international community, for international security. They should have left behind some kind of stability and then left everything behind. So I told people feeling betrayed by the international forces.

And so what are Afghans hoping to see from the international community? Of course they will ask them to stay, but that's not a thing they will reach to. They are asking for more security. Economy is not important for them. They are not asking for money. They are asking for security. They are saying international forces should not leave the country with the current situation when city after city falls into the hands of Taliban.

They are saying that people should have something that they can rely on. They are saying American international forces should leave Afghanistan, should have left Afghanistan, American international forces should leave Afghanistan, should have left Afghanistan, actually, you should say, after bringing some assurance, some guarantee that insurgent groups like the Taliban don't come to power again. Akhtar, thanks so much for your courageous reporting and for joining us today on the program. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Before we go today, an update on Quebec's vaccination passport plan. We talked about it on Monday's episode, which you can find in our feed.

The province's health minister, Christian Dubé, unveiled the first details about the system on Tuesday. It's set to go into effect September 1st. The passport will be used on an app that's being tested right now, and it will be required in high-capacity, crowded places like festivals, bars, restaurants, and gyms. Clients of these non-essential services will need to be vaccinated and have a QR code to prove it. But that won't apply to staff. Dubé said that mandating vaccines for those workers would break labor laws. That's all for today. I'm Jonathan Mopetze. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner.