Front Burner - The human toll of B.C.’s wildfires

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

As nearly 200 fires continue to burn in British Columbia, we hear stories of the people most affected, from CBC reporters Susana da Silva and Brady Strachan. They’ve been covering the devastating Lytton fire, and the ongoing firefighting efforts in B.C.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Oh my God, look at that. Holy shit, that's hot.

You may have seen this harrowing video from a few days ago, taken on a drive out of Lytton, B.C. For three days in a row, the town had recorded the hottest temperature ever in Canada. Then it caught fire. Oh, it's just going. Then it caught fire. In the video, flames are erupting along the highway, swallowing up buildings in this tiny village of only about 250 people. The plumes of smoke are so heavy that you can hardly see the road ahead.

Here's resident Gordon Murray, who took that video. Where our house was, there weren't flames everywhere. There was smoke everywhere. And so we only realized how bad it was when we got down to that road and started driving up it and saw those houses just like literally, I mean, we could actually hear the timbers exploding as we were driving along. And the poles, I think the poles were exploding. It was just, it was like being in a movie. It's hard to express how shocking it was. As Gordon said there, this all exploded so quickly. People had to leave without any time to grab their things. Edith Lauren Kahenga was on a Zoom meeting when she heard the sound of sirens screech past her house.

She had a single suitcase packed because of a planned trip. So I had that packed sitting by the door, and I just threw my laptop in my briefcase, grabbed the laptop in my suitcase, ran out the door. And then I realized I didn't have my purse, so I ran back in to get my purse. realized I didn't have my purse. I ran back in to get my purse. And when I came out and opened up the door and went to step on the stairs, that's when the explosion happened. It was a huge explosion. And then it was like a horror movie. It was all of a sudden everything went dark and gloomy and there was debris flying all over the place and everything. So it was really, like, traumatic. Like, it was just unbelievable. And people were running all over the place and saying,

Get out, get out, get out. Most of the town has been completely destroyed, and two people have been confirmed dead. This is in addition to the hundreds of deaths across the province believed to be linked to the extreme heat. And now BC is battling nearly 200 fires. More than a thousand people have already left their homes and about a dozen fires are being monitored really closely because they could result in evacuation orders any minute. Today, two of my colleagues are here.

They've been covering the tragedy in Lytton and the fires more widely, and we're going to discuss what it's like for people living with this very real and present danger. I'm here with CBC Vancouver video journalist Susie De Silva and CBC Kelowna reporter Brady Strachan. Hi, guys. Hello. Hi, Jamie. Hi, guys. Hello. Hi, Jamie. Hi, hi. Thank you so much for making the time. I know you're both very, very busy right now, so we appreciate it.

And Brady, I'll start with you. We're reaching you before noon in Kelowna on Monday in interior BC, and there are a few notable fires near Kamloops, which is a couple hours away from you. And what is the latest? Well, Jamie, yeah, there are quite a few fires. They estimate around 200 active fires in the province, and everyone's heard of the big heat wave we had last week. And following those record-breaking temperatures, we had a lot of lightning strikes all over the caribou and the thompson region and those sparked dozens of fires many of them have grown just enormous in size probably the

the biggest one is the sparks lake fire that's north of kamloops it's 360 square kilometers in size now and that's after less than a week of growth. 400 homes are on an evacuation order there. About a thousand people are under evacuation alert and that's only one of the major fires. There's other fires near 100 Mile House that have several hundred people on evacuation order. There's fires near Lillooet, near Prince George, and also, of course, the horrific fire that burned through Lytton last week. I wonder if you could put this in context for me a little bit. Like, my understanding is fire season doesn't typically start this early, right? Usually we get what's called the June rains here. We get this after spring we get sort of a bit of a rainy season here if you

can call it that even in the the interior but enough to sort of dampen down the forest they talk about fire fuels so that's trees that had fallen down in years past and they get a good soaking and and so that sort of delays the fires from really taking off for some time until a little bit later in the summer. But we didn't get that at all this year. We missed out on any rain almost in the interior. So when this heat wave came and these lightning strikes came, everything was tinder dry and just ripe to burn. And so we're getting these explosive fires very kind of early in the fire season. We would normally get fires that would grow sort of in later in July or in August when it is really dry. But we are seeing those dry conditions a lot earlier.

And Susie, Brady mentioned residents that are on alert here, evacuation alerts. And I wonder if you could tell me what does it mean for residents when they have to be on evacuation alert? Like, what is that like? Unease, I think, is probably the way to describe it. I mean, never knowing, constantly watching, almost opening your window and sniffing, right, to see if there's smoke in the air. What is coming? I spoke to a woman. She's part of the Boston Bar Fire Department there about having to keep, you know is coming? I spoke to a woman, she's part of a Boston Bar fire department there, about having to keep, you know, she's got kids and a cat,

and to keep bags packed, ready to go because you never know. And she was actually driving up, coming to a lookout, and just checking for spot fires, looking for potentially any little smoke anywhere that could potentially be something. So it is this sense of an ease. It's this constant fear. And they see, especially these communities nearby, that saw what happened to Lytton so quickly, they all know that could have been them and that could still be them.

And this sounds so stressful. You've got to think it would be so hard to even get a good night's sleep. I want to talk about Lytton now. So we're only beginning to understand the scope of the tragedy there. And Brady, what do we know at this point about how it happened? Well, we know that the fire destroyed about 90% of the homes in the town itself. And 1000 people from that area from the town and north, many First Nations and other rural communities north of town have left. And I'm sure many people have seen the devastating photos that just show the town raised and much of the main infrastructure in the town,

the police station, the ambulance station, all the buildings on the town's main street are just in ashes and burnt down to their foundations. And in the days after this, we spoke to people at evacuation centers who fled, and they described for us just the the frantic struggle of suddenly realizing there was a fire burning in their town burning their neighborhood down and then just the the struggle to get out i spoke to one man named eli mckeeve and and i met him at a hotel he was staying at in merit he had to borrow a shirt from a friend of his in

Merritt because he literally left with his shorts, his shoes, his dog, and his car. I think he had his wallet as well, so he does have his ID. And he just described this harrowing story of the fire encroaching on his neighborhood. Well, it was right there. It was already on our doorstep. My neighbor, he's got a woodshed there, and he just stopped it for wood for the winter. It caught on fire, and then it's siding on his house. It was melting. He had a great big propane tank,

and I could hear that thing starting to hiss, so I guess it blew. And then I got a big propane tank, and I'm only about 12 feet away from his place. I just grabbed my dogs and I just barely made it out. I had to stop twice because of the smoke. I couldn't see where I was going. It was blowing hard. It was just like a blowtorch.

Finally, I got a break in the smoke and I got going. It was blowing hard. It was just like a blowtorch. Finally, I got a break in the smoke, and I got out. It was terrible. And almost in a bit of a state of shock, as people describe this to you. It's a very traumatic event, and now people are wondering if they'll have anything to go back to. Will the town rebuild?

Will the people in the neighbourhoods that they knew be changed forever? So it's just so devastating to hear the stories of the people who have, in many cases, lost everything. Susie, what about you? I know you've also spoken to people in Lytton. And did you meet anyone whose story stuck with you? Yeah, lots of people's story. I mean, obviously, it's like a PTSD for a lot of them saying that. And even days later, they're still trying to process exactly what happened.

a lot of them saying that even days later they were still trying to process exactly what happened no one it seems at this point lost more than Jeff Chapman who was the gentleman that we spoke to was actually staying at a hotel in Abbotsford he had gone down that way and and he tells a story that is so tragic and terrible and unbelievable it's almost hard to believe that it happened and he was there with his parents. We were just having a good afternoon. We're always happy-go-lucky people. We're going to have a barbecue that afternoon. My parents took off. They were going to go get a few steaks. They came back and right around that time, same time, I noticed there was smoke.

Then a few minutes later, sparks start coming. He says they decided to try to protect what they had, to protect their home, what they had built. It was too late and I was just trying to save what me and my dad and family worked for our whole life. They decided to stay and sort of put out a fire. We talked about putting out a fire here. It just went so fast. I finally got one little spot fire out and then this one started and now our shed's on fire. The shed went up. Like the time I knew that I'd seen smoke and knew there was trouble, I don't even think it was 10 minutes, you know,

but that felt like 10 hours. And part of the issue was that it wasn't just a wall of fire that was coming towards them. There were sparks that were flying everywhere. So a house that was further up the hill, away from the fire, was more engulfed than their home became because things were flying everywhere.

You know, and at first I thought it was just us, like we're the only ones burning up. But then, you know, the next thing I realized, no, the whole town's going off. And they just were trying to put it out, and then they realized it was too late, that they just were not going to be able to get out. His parents were in their 60s, but he said his father had mobility issues, and there was just no way they were going to be able to outrun. They were surrounded, and so they made the decision that they would go down in a trench that they had dug.

And he put some tin over top of them. Slid it over and I almost went in with them. I hesitated and I went, I was not in the room. I pulled the piece of sheet over and I ran. And as soon as I started running away, the power line that comes through between my neighbor's house, I don't know what happened. At first I thought the house burnt to the point where the wires could pull out of the house, but no, there was some kind of a jolt or something happened, pulled the line,

the wire right out of the house, it came right down the top. He ran, he thought the best place would be near the railroad tracks where there was gravel and sort of should be, you know, cleared out area that he could go try to stay out of that fire and he laid there for about 45 minutes he says because there's just too much smoke and i was so drained that i couldn't i could take two steps and i just dropped the ground fucking hot fuck oh my god i don't wish. And you see video of him screaming and crying for his parents. It is heartbreaking. It is gut-wrenching to see it. Please, please, please God, whatever you do, please help us.

Please help my mom and dad and my brother and my animals. Please. I don't care. I don't care. Take me me but there's no getting everybody else I deserve it not them and once he said it it sort of simmered down a little bit I mean it was still chaos and and hot he said the heat the heat that he could feel his hair was singed just the heat but he's like I have to go check on them I went back up to the house and I was yelling and screaming for my mom. I yelled and screamed, Mom, Dad. And I came up and I seen what was left of my mom burning.

That's the last image I have of my mom is watching her burn. And he realized there was nothing he could do to save them. He needed to get out. If he waited any more minutes, he was not going to make it himself. He was able to get his truck. I got to the top where I was not going to make it himself. He was able to get his truck. I got to the top where I was safe and I knew it was still on fire and I got out and I'm kicking my melting taillights off my truck before the rest of it lit up. But he was able to drive it out. And when I first spoke to him, I wanted to know, is he really ready to be speaking? How

can he be ready to speak? try to understand that? Even before we decided to interview him, to know that he was really ready. And for him, he said it helped him to talk about it, to try to process it. But for him, he really wanted to speak out because at that point, his parents were still out there. They were saying that it was unsafe for the RCMP in the corner to get into that community. They're still laying out there. They're still laying out there. They were saying that it was unsafe for the RCMP and the coroner to get into that community. They're still laying out there. They're still laying out there. And that's the hardest part, knowing that. Again, I'm not blaming anybody, but why? So he really wanted to speak about his parents, who they were, his mother, his father. He was such a hard worker. You know, he would take

the shirt off his back for anybody. She, the same way, she was the most caring, giving person I know. You know, she would make sure anybody was taken care of before herself. You know, like, everybody would be sitting at the table, and she'd still be making something and be like, sit down at the table. Oh, no, no, don't worry about me. I got it all. You know, she was just, mom. She's mom, you know, everything that he would want from a mom.

So he wanted people to recognize the real, obviously the tragedy of people losing their homes is awful, but he wanted people to understand the human tragedy that this has caused. And he wants accountability. He wants to know, he says, you know, on that day, he knows that there's very little anyone could have done. I mean, it moved in so quickly, it was so dry, the conditions. But he does want to know, was there anything that could have been done ahead of time to prevent this?

And he wants to know how it started. Does someone need to be held accountable? And he's saying, you know, this isn't about money or getting liability in that sense. He wants answers. You know, like, no money can replace my parents. It's not about that. But somebody has to be liable for this, you know, liability in that sense. He wants answers. You know, like, no money can replace my parents. It's not about that, but somebody has to be li you in here, you know, on this idea, you know, that Jeff Chapman is searching for answers here about prevention, about accountability. Is there a sense that the province was prepared for what happened here? There's really a lot of criticism in how this emergency was handled by the people that were

caught up in it. I heard from evacuees who said that they were told by police officers to go to a certain town. And when they got to that town, oh, no, you know, you have to go to a certain town and when they got to that town oh no you know you have to go you know another two hours south to this other community where you can finally register but but even more than that is criticism by a number of first nations that live north of liloet which of course were impacted by the fire saying that they reached out to the province for help on coordinating the emergency on getting muster stations set up, on getting a system in place to take evacuee information, but heard no response for hours. And meanwhile, one of the First Nations chiefs said, as a rancher,

he has other completely different provincial officials calling him, checking in on his cattle and seeing if his cattle are okay. And so he's outraged that he's trying to save people's lives, human lives, and yet the first response he gets is about cattle. So there's a lot of criticism there. The province has responded to that and said that they did not live up to expectations and that there were gaps in protocols. But many people are wondering if the province can handle these type of fires going forward for the rest of the summer and years beyond. Because we're reaching heat levels that are unprecedented. we're reaching heat levels that are unprecedented.

And this is a bit of a side story, but I think it is related. Talking about the heat which came before the fires, there were more than 700 people that died over a three-day period in the province that could have been related to heat-related stress. And the BC Coroner Service says they usually have about a third of that sudden deaths, but there were more than 700 in that period of the immense heat. And so many people are asking, we knew this heat was coming. We saw the forecasts a week in advance. How come systems were not put in place to better handle this and save lives. And Susie, what are you hearing now about what needs to be done here to address this?

Yeah, and going back to that, I mean, part of that is also is this communication, the lack of communication and better information many of these communities ask for. I mean, you also have challenges in some of these areas where there's no cell service. And so they're desperately trying to figure out where they can get information from. You have community members who are saying they have people who are still missing. And then, you know, one town, one small First Nation just near Lytton said, you know, we've opened up our information center and our center here for people to come by. They can get water. They can stay here if they need. And what they would do is they'd take down names of people who came through, and then

they'd have to drive down the highway to a spot where they could get cell service. And then they would do what they could there, whether it's through Facebook, social media, whatever, to say, hey, this person is safe, to try to reunite people. So there are so many challenges that are still playing out that they are wondering, you know, what can we do in the future? We're seeing like in Lytton, there is not time. You need plans in place that can be enacted that second. And so they are all wondering that. And yes, we talk about, you know, the timing and where we are July 5th right now, that we're in this situation already. How is this just going to be the way it is from now on? And how are we going to respond to that? And we need to quickly, because we don't have the luxury of 10 years to do some more studies and plans,

what can we do to be ready for this year and in the immediate years following? Because people fear this could be what we will be seeing more of going forward. Right. And I mean, just to end on that note, and going back to Lytton resident Gordon Murray, who we heard from at the beginning of this episode, he said something that really stuck with me. He essentially said that the town was a microcosm for who is most vulnerable to climate change.

Because we are, it's a small, rural, indigenous, low-income community, and we're at the point, the spear point of climate change but it's coming for everybody we're the canary in the coal mine we we had the heat and the chaos but we weren't prepared and i don't believe that society is prepared in the same kind of way jamie i am hearing that sentiment from other people that i've spoken to in the same kind of way. Jamie, I am hearing that sentiment from other people that I've spoken to in the past week. And I've been covering fires in this region for the last decade. And it does seem very different this year. It seems the heat, the extreme heat, the dryness and the aggressive fire behavior is something that has taken everybody unaware, it seems. It is. Are we the canary in the coal mine? He sets it up perfectly asking that question.

And I think this is something that we will have to grapple with over the next weeks and months and years after fire season, whenever that is, because this is different. This is unprecedented what we've experienced here over the last, say, five or six days. And I think anyone who's in this area, in the southern interior, and is seeing the smoke fill the skies again, or has a loved one that is displaced or has displaced themselves, are feeling that sentiment that we are in new territory here. Okay, well, please be safe out there to you both. Brady, Susie, thank you so much. Thank you, Jamie. You're welcome, Jamie. On Monday, over 100 out-of-province crews are expected to arrive in B.C. to help with firefighting efforts. According to the B.C. Wildfire Service, those resources will be dispersed across interior B.C.

resources will be dispersed across interior BC. Bill Blair, the Federal Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, also said that the Canadian military will provide air support for areas affected by the wildfires until July 19th. That's it for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

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