Front Burner - The Joe Biden age problem

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

The debate over whether or not Joe Biden is too old to be president is getting heated.He has struggled to collect his thoughts, mumbled incoherently at press conferences, referenced recent conversations with long-dead politicians, and recently, had to be reminded of Hamas' name.It’s not a good look for any president. But it’s especially bad for the presumed Democratic nominee during an election year.Today, CBC Washington senior correspondent Paul Hunter explains why an 81-year-old with memory lapses might be the only option the Democrats have.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. In a poll last week, almost 70% of U.S. voters who took part said that Joe Biden is too old to effectively serve another term. He's 81. That's compared with 57% who said the same thing about Trump, who's 77.

The is Biden too old narrative hit a bit of a crescendo earlier this month after a special council's report about Biden's handling of classified documents dropped. The report describes Biden as having diminished faculties and a failing memory. Among other things, the report says investigators noted Biden couldn't even recall the year his son Beau died. The White House felt they had to respond, so they called this address and marched Biden out in front of the cameras. I'm well-meaning, and I'm an elderly man, and I know what the hell I'm doing. I've been president, and I put this country back on its feet.

My memory is fine. My memory, take a look at what I've done since I've become president. He was angry and defensive. That is your judgment. That is your judgment. That is not the judgment of the press. He actually seemed to finish the address and went to leave, but then decided to go back and field a few more questions. He started talking about the situation in Gaza. As you know, initially, the president of Mexico, El-Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in.

What Biden meant to say there was President El-Sisi of Egypt, not Mexico. It was a mistake that really anyone could make, but given the context, it was the worst possible moment for it to happen. Today, my colleague, CBC Washington Senior Correspondent Paul Hunter is here. We're going to talk about how big a problem Biden's age is proving to be and how his party is reacting, including some serious calls for him to step aside and let a different ticket go up against Trump in November. Paul, hi. I know that we're reaching you in South Carolina right now where you are covering the primary between Trump and Nikki Haley. And so thank you so much for making the time.

Hey, Jamie. It's always my pleasure. special counsel Robert Herr, which was actually about whether Biden had improperly stored classified documents and it exonerated him. But it was very damning politically because it essentially described him as suffering from mental decline. And what really stood out to you from that report? Well, a few things. I mean, yeah, firstly, that the thrust of it, Well, a few things. I mean, yeah, firstly, that the thrust of it, that Biden's classified documents situation was not deemed to be at the level of the accusations against Donald Trump and like it was the 81-year-old elephant in the room all this time, the thing that you're not really supposed to talk about, but that everyone was thinking, including every voter in America, it's that Joe Biden is old. So yeah, Robert Herr, author of the report, someone who had been a Trump appointee earlier, says no charges against Joe Biden over the documents. But instead of then saying the end,

he goes on to describe in the report observations made by investigators who had sat down with Biden to interview him. Here's a quote. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, hazy. Two times, says the report, Joe Biden seemed confused about which year it was that he stopped being Barack Obama's vice president. But here's the headline, quote, Jamie, in a section on why Biden won't face charges over the documents. In part, it seems, because her figured a jury would not convict him. Why? Quote, Mr. Biden will likely present himself to the jury as he did during his interview with our office as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Ouch. I know exactly, right? Yeah. It is not the way you want a president to be described,

right? Or a presidential candidate. The president of the United States, singularly the most powerful man on the planet with the biggest military in the world at his disposal, described as basically a doddering old man. Yeah. And I know that you mentioned that her is a Trump appointee. And this was an argument that the Biden team was making that this was politically motivated. But also, as you mentioned, he was kind of saying the quiet part out loud. He was saying something that people have been able to observe with their own eyes and their own ears. And leading up to this report, there have been several other moments. So for me, I remember this one presser where he's talking to reporters about hostage negotiations in Gaza and Paul, like he seems to be having a very difficult time collecting his thoughts. There's been a response from the opposition. But, yes, I'm sorry, from Hamas.

But it seems to be a little over the top. We're not sure where it is. There's continuing negotiations. And, you know, there was another example recently where he's at a brewery in Wisconsin and he's kind of mumbling incoherently at the press conference. Beer brewed here is used to make the brew beer. Oh, Earth Rider, thanks for the Great Lakes. He seems slower to me. He seems to have less energy than he did even when he was campaigning in 2020 against Trump. And do you think that's a fair assessment? Is that what you are seeing too?

Yes. Short answer. I mean, it's all absolutely true, Jamie. There's no denying he has lost a step, not just, he's lost a number of steps since 2020. I mean, we went to a Biden campaign staff event in 2020 in New Hampshire, up close and personal with Joe Biden. He was a different guy than the president we now see. Let's be honest, we see him stiff as a board walking across the stage these days, right? Four years ago, Let's be honest. We see him stiff as a board walking across the stage these days, right? Four years ago, he was full of energy. Today, not really at all. Stuff happens when you age. It's just a fact. You talk about his stumbles and his pauses when he speaks. I mean, he's written that off as leftovers from his earlier battles with stuttering when he was younger, but it's awkward

to watch because it feels like he's not really there. I'm trying not, I don't want to be unkind here, but it is what it is. There was the time that he confused the Mexican and Egyptian presidents. On that night, I was reporting for The National. I had to go live right after those comments to talk about them. But quite honestly, I didn't know what to make of it because I'm thinking, is there something he knows that we don't know about Mexico and Gaza? It made no sense to me in the moment because it doesn't make sense. The effect of all of this, Jamie, especially acute in an election year, is that he just seems old. Like I say, it's been whispered about for ages. This just puts it on the front pages, not least because he's running for another four years in office, after which he'd be 86.

And that makes it a political nightmare for Democrats. Let's get to how the Democrats have been dealing with this. And first, walk me through a bit of the response from the White House. How are they dealing with this? Sure. Well, people immediately said, well, what about a cognitive test? No, said the White House, right? What do you think about the idea of taking that kind of a test? I mean, look, I have known this president since 2009.

He is not just my boss. He's also a mentor to me. And I spent sometimes countless hours with him, whether it's in the Oval Office, whether it's on the road. And I believe, for me, you're asking me my personal opinion, he is sharp. He is on top of things. He, when we have.

What happened is they rolled out. It seemed anyone they could find to get out in front of cameras, get out in front of a microphone and talk about Biden's, you know, mental acuity. So we heard from a lot of people, you know, Joe Biden is sharp as a tack kind of thing. You should see him behind closed doors. You know, the Joe Biden I know privately is details oriented, fully cogent, clear minded, all stuff like that. It is safe to say that, of course, the president knows when his son died. And I was in almost every meeting with the president.

And the president was in front of and on top of it all. The president was in front of and on top of it all, coordinating and directing leaders who are in charge of America's national security, not to mention our allies around the globe. Very famously prompted, you know, Jon Stewart on The Daily Show to say, Did anyone film that? Stewart on The Daily Show to say, did anyone film that? Film it, show us, because that would change everything, but they don't. And so that reinforces everything. And by the way, here's something else they didn't do. They didn't, very famously again, right? Because this is all the talk down in this country. They didn't put Joe Biden out there on TV during the Super Bowl. The chance for Joe to be Joe. Uncle Joe, right? Like a giant potential infomercial, an earned media bonanza in theory that, generally speaking,

presidents take full advantage of. To be interviewed with a massive audience, to score some points, enjoy the game. But he didn't do that. And whatever the true reason is for not doing that, the feeling is it's because his team worried he'd look bad, that he'd mix up foreign presidents again or worse. And whatever the goal was on that day, the result on Super Bowl Sunday was, once again, people talking about his age, that the White House was hiding him or whatever, because they felt he wasn't up to it. And regardless of the truth,

that's the impression left for voters. A simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. You know, you mentioned the Jon Stewart monologue. It's been interesting to watch some of the reaction from Democrats towards people who are questioning this, right? You're hearing this criticism that by just talking about it, by just bringing it up, you're helping Trump win. U.S. Senator John Fetterman, for example, recently said on MSNBC. But if you're not willing to just support the president now and say these kinds of things, you might as well just get your mag ahead because you now are helping Trump with this.

What do you make of that? I mean, you also hear from Democrats, hey, wait a second, if he's a doddering old man, look at what he's doing. He's creating jobs. He's bringing inflation down. He's doing what presidents are supposed to do. And besides, what about Trump, right? I mean, the real pushback is, but look at the other guy.

Trump is 77. But I think it's fairly plain to see that he does not present nearly as old as Joe Biden. From Joe Biden on down, and I'm not sure that Biden knows what the hell's going on. I don't think he knows he's alive, actually. Funny thing is, Trump does mess up, right? I mean, famously, again, recently mixing up former Democrat Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi with Trump's current challenger for the Republican Party nomination, Nikki Haley.

By the way, they never report the crowd on January 6th. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, you know, they, do you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything, deleted and destroyed all of it, all of it because of lots of things like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want. They turned it down. They don't want to talk about it. And he did this in a speech repeatedly. The guy who once called himself a very stable genius, right?

Fair to say if Biden had done that, Republicans would lose their minds over it. But Trump did. And yeah, he was made fun of. But it didn't stick in the way that it sticks with Biden. You know, we talked about how we're seeing this really defensive reaction from some members of the Democratic Party. But there are also people that are starting to publicly say that they need to pivot and that Biden should consider stepping aside, which is something that I actually assumed wasra Klein, he published this 4,000-word column recently that was also an audio essay on his podcast saying that Biden should step aside. So, yes, I think Biden, as painful as this is, should find his way to stepping down as a hero, that the party should help him find his way to that, to being the thing that he said he would be in 2020, the bridge to the next generation of Democrats. And then I think Democrats should meet... Nate Silver, founder of FiveThirtyEight,

the polling site, is saying the same thing. And, you know, what are they saying could happen here? Well, you know, that's the other side of the big question here, right? Should Joe go? Is the party better off without him? Or is it too late for that, right? If it's worth Is the party better off without him? Or is it too late for that, right? If it's worth thinking about, how would it work? And by the way, who would it be, right?

That's the thing. Who would be swapped in to take on Trump now, this close to an election, right? And who would be the person to lean into Joe Biden's ear and whisper, it's time, right? And who would Biden actually listen to on that? Look, the conventional wisdom back in 2020 was that Biden was a one-term wonder, one and done. Elect him, normalize the country, and then say, thank you very much, Uncle Joe.

You did your job. You vanquished Donald Trump. That's a fine epitaph. Biden could then step aside after one term as a hero of American democracy. But that was contingent on Trump never running again. Biden himself has suggested, had Trump not thrown his hat back in the ring, he wouldn't have either.

But here we are. I don't think it's a stretch to believe Biden himself truly believes he is best suited to beat Trump a second time, no matter this conversation that we're having. Politicians tend to believe their own success story headlines. Biden is no different. And besides, like I say, if not him, who would carry the Democrat flag? Jury's out on Kamala Harris. You know, they got Gavin Newsom in California, Cory Booker in New Jersey, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, for sure. It's hard to say right now, right? Harris is kind of a natural guess as vice president, but a lot of people kind of feel she's underperformed. Others say she put her in a small

room with people and she wins them over. So maybe she's holding something back on the bigger stage for some reason. But then again, that was the line on Hillary Clinton, great in small rooms, not so much on a big stage. We know how that movie ended. Anyway, point being, there are options. So then the next question is, what's the methodology, right? To think that we're even having this conversation is almost unbelievable unto itself. But it is possible, per the rules, if a candidate with delegates gathered through the primary season drops out before the convention, and for Democrats this year, that's in Chicago, late August, then you'd have what's called an open convention, which is the way they used to be in which names are put forward on the floor and delegates could vote for whoever. So if Biden were to drop out, all the delegates he's picked up so far would be freed up. It can be done, but will it, right? Biden for one would have to agree and he has shown no signal that he's

even considering it. Right. And convincing him from everything that I've read seems like a virtually insurmountable hurdle. But let's say you were able to do that, and we did enter into this new phase where there could be a new nominee. You mentioned some of these potential candidates. They're currently polling worse against Trump. But is that because you think they don't have the kind of name recognition? Could that change? Yes.

I'm going to say again, it's all uncharted territory, isn't it? In so many ways, because you're trying to think this out. How would that play out? I mean, there is a train of thought and this comes into play, frankly, every election cycle, but for different reasons, which is that people, people, generally speaking, don't really engage engage don't really start paying attention to presidential races until the fall right um so name recognition is a thing that would be a factor you know look at the names uh we mentioned earlier some are more recognizable than others none of them are donald trump in terms of recognition let. Let's be honest about that. None of the others, maybe with the exception of Kamala Harris, have anything close to that.

But voters don't start thinking about this stuff until the fall, until after the nominating conventions, which unto themselves bring tremendous, you know, put names forward that you all of a sudden think you've known forever. So it is not, I'll say it in a double negative, it's not not doable. Yeah. The other question I have is you talked about Kamala. You know, if it's not her, Yeah. The other question I have is you talked about Kamala. You know, if it's not her, wouldn't that cause a major rift in the Democratic Party? Because, you know, I know a lot of women, a lot of black women organized to have her be the nominee for vice president. So, I mean, there's a real risk to opening this up, too, is there not? Yes, that's a problem. I think it's something

that the Democratic Party would say, too bad. It's too late. We've got to make the right choice here. And if she's not it, if she's not deemed to be it, they will just put everything behind the person who it is. I take your point that there would be pushback for a number of reasons if it isn't her. But look, to your earlier question, we know from polls that most Americans would rather have two candidates not named Joe Biden or Donald Trump, right? Two candidates not aged 81 and 77. And I think the value of a new candidate coming out of, let's say, the Democratic nominating convention would be this giant sigh of relief, certainly in Democratic households, that, okay, now we can do this. And there would be an energy that whoever it is,

whether it's Kamala Harris or pick your choice, that, okay. And that's when the engagement kicks in. It's like, let's just do this. This is the turning of the page that Nikki Haley talks about on a generational basis. That's how it works. And then it becomes, you kind of hit a critical mass and you go forward. You have two names on the ballot on election day. That's all that matters. It's this one or that one. As I say, it's doable. It strikes me, though, that, you know, if you're the Democrats right now, you have two choices. And one is to do nothing, to sort of status quo it, right, and hope that it works. And the other one is to do something which, for an election that the Democrats have been painting as existential, as an existential choice for America, the stakes are very high here. It's a very risky proposal. And upending the whole thing strikes me as potentially very risky for,

you know, the people who are pushing that path. if you upend everything and you lose and Trump wins, well, that's a massive loss to take the responsibility for. I've said this before, and it bears repeating, Jamie. Every election lately feels like it's the biggest and most important, most consequential of a generation. But there is indeed a real argument that this one really is. And yeah, for Democrats, the flag is being carried by an 81-year-old man for whom the latest headline is he's a doddering old elderly guy in a country that cherishes and rewards action heroes. I saw a kid at a Trump rally the other day wearing a t-shirt that had Trump as Superman flying through the air. He's not portrayed as doddering. Back in 2016, when Trump was elected, friends and neighbors

of mine in Washington literally put their heads in their hands and said, what is going on in this country? How did it get to this point? Suffice to say, many of them are saying to me in Washington the same thing now all over again. This is absolutely a consequential election coming up. Both parties have to make the right choice, but these are the two, at least for the moment, that they're choosing. This is who voters will have. Pending, pending, putting somebody else in there. It's like, it's,

it's, it's all bets are off. Like it's like, it is, it's, it, it beggars belief that this country is even in this position where this might be happening, you know?

Yeah. I didn't expect us to be having this conversation at this juncture. But do you think that this, this conversation at this juncture. But do you think that this argument that he needs to choose to step aside and that another ticket needs to be chosen, is it getting any traction amongst the people that you're talking to, the Democrats

that you're talking to, or is it still this real kind of fringy idea that people like Ezra and Nate Silver are pushing? I would say that it is a conversation and that unto itself is not insignificant. There is an argument to say, stay with Joe because he beat him in 2020. He beat him by proxy in 2022 in the midterms. That what you're seeing right now is a lot of hype about the primary season. It's different when you get into the presidential, Joe Biden has a pretty good track

record in terms of things that he's done, or take a chance, right? That's the conversation. But when has the US ever been in this position? That's why it's a hard one to answer because there's nothing to look back on and say, Hey, it worked that time or, Hey, it was a complete disaster the other time. It's kind of what makes it sort of supremely interesting.

But you're right to say it's supremely consequential. The conversation is happening. The movie is playing out, but nobody knows how it's going to end. Right. Well, Paul, I cannot wait until the next time that we talk. It's going to be a really, really interesting several months ahead of us. So thank you so much, as always, for coming on.

It's always my pleasure, Jamie. Thank you so much. All right. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.