Front Burner - The political longevity of Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu is put to the test

Episode Date: April 8, 2019

Benjamin Netanyahu has been the Prime Minister of Israel for ten years. If he is re-elected and stays on in the job through the summer, he'll be longest serving Prime Minister in the country's history. But he faces a tough opponent in former military general Benny Gantz. Today on Front Burner, CBC's Derek Stoffel on Benjamin Netanyahu's political staying power.

Hey there, I'm Kathleen Goltar and I have a confession to make. I am a true crime fanatic. I devour books and films and most of all true crime podcasts. But sometimes I just want to know more. I want to go deeper. And that's where my podcast Crime Story comes in. Every week I go behind the scenes with the creators of the best in true crime. I chat with the host of Scamanda, Teacher's Pet, Bone Valley, the list goes on. For the insider scoop, find Crime Story in your podcast app. TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you new ideas and insights to expand your worldview. Like an app that's helping refugees know and pursue their rights, to how science fiction ignited a real-life culture

of space exploration, and a lot more. You can listen to TED Talks Daily wherever you get FrontBurner. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. For 10 straight years, Benjamin Netanyahu has been the Prime Minister of Israel. And tomorrow, the country will go to the polls to decide whether or not he should continue to lead the country. He faces a formidable rival this time around in former military general Benny Gantz, the leader of the new centrist Blue and White Party. and former military general Benny Gantz, the leader of the new centrist Blue and White Party. Even though we have the best army, the best air force in the world,

if we want hope, we must have unity. And multiple criminal indictments loom over his campaign. The attorney general announced he plans to indict Netanyahu for fraud, bribery, and breach of trust. The left is doing this because they know they can't beat us at the ballot box. If he's re-elected and holds on to power through the summer, he'll replace the country's founder, David Ben-Gurion, as Israel's longest-serving prime minister. So, what's the secret to Netanyahu's staying power? And will it last? Today on FrontBurner, former CBC News

Middle East correspondent and current world news editor Derek Stoffel is going to walk us through it. Derek, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. First time guest. Yeah, great to be here. Thank you. So if we could start today by having you introduce us to the man who could become Israel's longest serving Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He is a complex character. There's lots to be said about Benjamin Netanyahu, that he's certainly around the world a well-known statesman. He's a passionate advocate for Israel. Some say he is self-centered, that he's a narcissist. His supporters call him Mr. Security. We need a strong leader. There are no people today who know how to run the country like this.

Some of his opponents actually say he's not the prime minister. They're calling him now the crime minister in relation to those potential charges. This is is of course unthinkable that a prime minister continues to stay in post for such a long time under interrogation he must resign immediately but whatever you say about Benjamin Netanyahu he is certainly a survivor I'm rendering you mentioned that some people call him a narcissist why how so well if you look sort of at the fact that people think he's all about staying in power

and staying in the limelight, you hear he's sort of taken up the Trump mantra of fake news, but yet he loves being in the news in Israel. Propaganda channels 12 and 13 will try to brainwash you every night with unending false and distorted leaks. And there's all these sort of allegations, little sort of mini scandals that have popped up

and things like ice cream, for example. They spent a lot of money on ice cream in the official residence. So Israelis sort of, you know, it's become a bit of a sport to watch this man over the years. And he's been around for such a long time. Well, it's so interesting because he's become synonymous with the state of Israel in so

many different ways. And I want to get to some of the scandals and possible indictments that could come down on him. But first, why do you think it is that he's been able to stay in power for so long, year after year? There's no doubt he is a very skilled politician. And in Israel, you really need to be. It's that complex system of the Knesset, the parliament, where in the history of the country, there's never been a majority government. There's always coalitions. And he's a master at forming these

coalitions of making sure he's got enough people on side for important votes. And because, you know, he's just got that drive. He really wants to be prime minister. People who know him well say he really thinks it's been his calling to lead the state of Israel. And for Netanyahu, that calling really has been to keep the state of Israel safe. That's his main thing. And that's what he's famous for,. Right. It's all about security. And that's what he's famous for, for sure.

Yesterday, a rocket was fired from Gaza, deep inside Israel. It hit a home north of Tel Aviv. Israel will not tolerate this. I will not tolerate this. And as we speak, Israel is responding forcefully to this wanton aggression. I find the Israeli parliamentary system really interesting, but also a bit confusing because no one party, as you mentioned, ever actually can control power. And what is it about Benjamin Netanyahu that makes him so great at moving all of those chess pieces around? Well, it's, you know, his longevity, his connections, and he's got the Likud party behind him. And it comes down to the fact that he's a good, great, you know, a backroom dealer.

He always seems to sort of pull that rabbit from the hat. And he's able to, you know, a backroom dealer. He always seems to sort of pull that rabbit from the hat. And he's able to, you know, certainly in his coalition, I wouldn't say that he is loved by these different groups, different parties, but he's able to sort of keep control of them well enough. And, you know, to the surprise of many, many political observers in Israel, you know, the last election was 2015. The government stood. It didn't fall, as was predicted many, many times. Just a day ago, the election was said to be slipping through his fingers as his supporters chanted his nickname, Bibi. Benjamin Netanyahu savoured victory. Against all odds, we have achieved victory for the Likud party.

So he's been, as I say, he's really the survivor. And heading into this election, is there anyone who has a chance against him? Is there anything different this time around? Yeah, you know, when you look back sort of at the last couple of elections and why he's been so successful, it's because really there hasn't been anybody strong opposing him. And that's changed this election. There is a new face on the Israeli political scene, and that's Benny Gantz.

He's new to politics. He's not new to Israelis. He's 6'4". He's a big guy. He's an imposing presence. And he's tough, and that's what Israelis like in their leaders. On my watch, Iran will not threaten Israel by taking over Syria, Lebanon or Gaza Strip. Nor will it undermine pragmatic regimes in the Middle East. On my watch, Iran will not have nuclear weapons. He is a former chief of staff of the Israeli military. He was the top general.

And so he formed this new party, the Blue and White Party, with two other former top generals and a center-left politician who was once sitting in Netanyahu's government. And this Blue and White Party, they're doing well. The latest poll that came out just a couple of days ago puts the Blue and White on top with a predicted 30 seats in the Knesset and the Likud party of Benjamin Netanyahu at 26. Okay. And the idea that they're neck and neck, you know, you mentioned before that Benjamin Netanyahu has been so successful because he's largely been all about security, about keeping Israel safe. Is Benny Gantz an option for people because he also can be this leader who can keep the country safe?

Is that fair? Absolutely. And that's what sort of has made this election much more contested than previous ones. Because when you look at Mr. Security, the guy who Netanyahu's been running on the, you know, I'm going to keep Israel safe from Iran, from the war in Syria just over the Golan Heights. There have been rocket attacks recently or the threat of rocket attacks from Gaza. He's been able to say, I'm the only guy who can keep this country safe. We are prepared to do a lot more. We will do what is necessary to defend our people and to defend our state. But now, in Benny Gantz, this former military leader,

he can make the same argument and has made that same argument that, look, I was the guy doing this under Netanyahu. I know security very well. We must return our initiative. We have to take a very harsh policy, a continuous one, in a way that Hamas will want to return to complete silence.

But he's also out there saying it's time for the corrupt years of Netanyahu to be over. I call on you, Benjamin Netanyahu, from here tonight to come to your senses, show responsibility, and resign from your post. And I think that that, you know, you put those two things together and that's resonating with a lot of Israelis.

So let's talk about those corrupt years. Netanyahu now stands accused of multiple crimes. And what are they? Well, back in February, the attorney general in Israel announced that he intends to charge Netanyahu with bribery, breach of trust, and fraud. And these possible charges come from two investigations. It's alleged that Netanyahu accepted gifts, including luxury items such as cigars, jewelry, and champagne from two men. One of them is a Hollywood producer, and that Netanyahu took these gifts, it's alleged, in exchange for changes to tax laws. And in the second case, police say Netanyahu tried to use his influence to get better coverage from one of the biggest daily newspapers in Israel. Oh, that's interesting. How? According to the police, what was happening is that working with a couple of businessmen,

he was trying to sort of lessen the influence of a free newspaper while building up his coverage in a paid daily newspaper. Again, charges that still have not been laid. We'll see what happens after the election on that. We talked earlier about the importance of building coalitions in the Knesset in order to maintain power in Israel. And has Netanyahu allied himself with anybody in the hopes of keeping his position? Like, do we already know his plan? Well, we don't know who he might, if he does win, if he's the sort of, you know, gains the most seats. We don't know who will be in his coalition. That's of, you know, gains the most seats, we don't know who will be in his

coalition. That's because, you know, it's election time. So every party is out fending for itself. But, you know, it'll be a long process. It was weeks and weeks last time in 2015. But we do know that he has already, you know, likely to get support from other right wing parties, ultra orthodox religious parties, some of the same groups that were in the current coalition government. It's such an interesting mix of parties. You've got religious parties, secular parties, and one that's sort of in the last stretch catching a lot of attention

is there's this right-wing libertarian party that has made a big surge, and it's campaigning on the idea of small government and legalizing marijuana. Zehut is a party of freedom. Legalization is a good example of the state's excessive interference in the private lives of citizens. We want a free market, not just in cannabis, but also in the economy, in education, and in culture. That certainly caught on with a lot of young people in Israel right now. You mentioned some of the other parties that are running in this election. I understand the leader of another party, the Jewish Power Party, has now been barred from running in this election by the

Supreme Court. That's right. Yeah. He's called Michael Ben-Ari and he is accused of inciting racism. It was reported in the local media that he called Israeli Arabs enemies from within, and that led the top court to bar him from standing in this election, although the Jewish Power Party itself is still running as part of a right-wing joint list, and it could end up in a governing coalition if Netanyahu is re-elected. You know, just these controversies of these, you know, controversial parties, his critics say that this just shows how desperate Netanyahu is to hold on to power in Israel. Right. Essentially, that he would be willing to align himself with people who

are being accused of being incredibly divisive in the country. That's right. And he is accused of orchestrating, really sort of trying to get right-wing Israelis to face off against the left, Arab versus Jewish Israelis. And this whole divisiveness is really one of the things that his critics point to as a reason that he should go. Right. All of Israel's citizens, whether Jew or Arab, Muslim, Christian or Jews, have exactly the same individual rights. But Israel is also the one and only country on earth in which the Jewish people exercise our collective right of self-determination. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned this divisiveness. He's also aligned himself with another very divisive leader, U.S. President Donald Trump.

I brought you a case of the finest wine from the world. I understand you're not a great wine drinker, but could I give it to your staff? Yes, you can. And I hope they don't have an investigation on that. Mr. President, do you want... Who I think you can make an argument has helped Benjamin at Yahoo in the lead up to this staff. Yes, you can. Mr. President, do you want... Who, I think you can make an argument, has helped Benjamin at Yahoo in the lead-up to this election, and how so? Well, most recently, I think a lot of political commentators

saw this as a real political gift, and that was the recognition just over two weeks ago of the Golan Heights by the United States, essentially the United States saying that the Golan Heights is now sovereign Israeli territory. Today, aggressive action by Iran and terrorist groups in southern Syria, including Hezbollah, continue to make the Golan Heights a potential launching ground for attacks against Israel. ground for attacks against Israel. You know, for years after Israel won the territory in a war with Syria, it's been contested. And, you know, countries, including Canada, have not recognized the

Israeli control over it. But when Trump made that change in U.S. foreign policy, it was a real gift to Netanyahu. Just like the moving of the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. For many years, we failed to acknowledge the obvious, the plain reality that Israel's capital is Jerusalem. And he's really, Netanyahu has really played that up, that I'm the only person who can go to Washington,

have good talks with Trump and deliver. And that's a tough one for his critics to argue about. Right. He's essentially saying don't change a good thing. Absolutely. It was so kind of you to invite me to come here. Mr. President, over the years, Israel has been blessed to have many friends who sat

in the Oval Office. But Israel has never had a better friend than you. We'll be back in a second. At Franklin Templeton, we help you invest in companies that believe good enough is never far enough. Reach for better. Franklin Templeton Investments. for better. Franklin Templeton Investments. Given everything that we've discussed so far, what are the big issues on most Israelis' minds heading into this election? You mentioned that Netanyahu has been this figure who has put the security of Israel at the forefront. Is that still the most important issue facing Israelis?

You know, what's interesting about this campaign is that it really hasn't been about issues. It's been about personality. It's been about Netanyahu, Benny Gantz, and it's been mean, mean-spirited, lots of attacks from one on the other. There are those who have recently dropped in the polls, so they start to invent all kinds of stories.

They'll go with TB, and they'll go with Kahane's followers. Everything is not true. My friends here, there are no scripts, no protocols, no focus groups. You know why? Because I speak from the heart, not from a script someone put in my mouth, like a square. And it's actually led to a different kind of a campaign. There's not been as many of the traditional campaign rallies. Some scaled back, some even cancelled. Instead, the election has really played out on social media with videos, posts on Facebook. Twitter has been quite important, even to the fact that the Watchdog recently found that there have been hundreds of fake social media

accounts that were out there trying to attack Netanyahu's opponents. What is interesting is when you look at, there are a lot of issues that the average Israeli cares about. And cost of living is high in Israel. I lived there for eight years. It's an expensive place. People are worried about wages. They're worried about there's a lack of affordable housing. So, you know, there had even been protests over the years over these sort of cost of living issues, but it just isn't an issue in this election. And that has a lot of Israelis angered that such an important election has really been won without issues. Another thing I find interesting about this campaign is that while a lot of Jewish Israelis are pondering over who to vote for, I understand that many Arab Israelis are debating whether to vote at all.

Yeah. And so why is that? This is a country of 8 million people. 6 million people are Jewish Israelis, but 2 million are Arab Israelis. So a big chunk of the population. That probably, you know, may not vote. There have been calls, as you say, for a boycott that they shouldn't vote. And that's largely because they feel like second class citizens in their own country.

The general idea is to boycott. To boycott the institution that actively tries to erase us from the land of Palestine. It tries to make the life of the diaspora harder, tries to make our lives harder wherever the Palestinian people are. They point to a number of examples, but one of the more recent ones is a controversial law called the Nation-State Law that passed last year, and it promotes Israel as a Jewish state, and it actually removed Arabic as one of the country's official languages. Members of Knesset from the opposition slammed the legislation with politicians from the

Joint Arab Party calling it the last nail in the coffin of the so-called Israeli democracy which has been dying in recent years from racist diseases. That angered a lot of Arabs who live in Israel and as a result many of them are planning to stay at home on Tuesday. And there's been some news over the weekend on Saturday Netanyahu said he would annex settlements in the West Bank if he wins again. Palestinian leaders immediately reacted with anger. The chief negotiator saying Israel will continue to brazenly violate international law for as long as the international community will continue to reward Israel with impunity. Yeah, certainly, you know, a lot of Arab Israelis would would not like that at all. It would be, you know, it's very unpopular. And you also then think about, you know, the the Palestinians living in Gaza or in the West Bank, where they're also keeping an

eye on this election, because, you know, the leader of Israel is an important person that if there are going to be peace talks, it's going to be with that person. And we should note that there haven't been direct peace talks since 2014. So I think for Palestinians, there's a sense that this election doesn't mean much for them, because whether it's Benny Gantz, or whether it's Netanyahu leading the country of Israel, both have taken hardline approaches on the idea of peace with the Palestinians. And so as a result, Palestinians aren't feeling at all optimistic that this election will bring any meaningful change for them.

You know, and you mentioned before that peace talks have been frozen since 2014. Is it fair to say that in this election, for a lot of Israelis, the idea of peace between Israel and the Palestinians is really just at a stalemate? Like it's almost accepted that this isn't at the forefront of the agenda. Yeah, it's, you know, and it's hardly talked about. It's such a big issue. talked about. It's such a big issue and just over my time there, it's the thing that was striking so often is that there's, you know, this is a several week long election campaign and it just issue, you know, the issue of peace with the Palestinians hasn't been talked about. It's, and it's disappointing, I think, for people who do want to see peace, but it's become this. This has been this election campaign focused on, you know, people rather than ideas.

And as a result, the idea of peace is just not been discussed. Heading to the polls tomorrow, just how close is this election? It's tight. And it's been increasingly tight. You know, it was at one point that the seat spread for the blue and white party of Benny Gantz was about 10 or 12 over the Likud party of Netanyahu. And now that has certainly narrowed to about four seats difference. So very tight. And I think that shows that Israelis are, I think there's a lot of talk.

There should be a change. Netanyahu has been there for a long time. The fact that potential corruption charges are hanging over his head have influenced a lot of voters. But at the same time, the fact that potential corruption charges are hanging over his head have influenced a lot of voters. But at the same time, the fact that he is still doing so well shows that he is still a popular leader. He's good on security and people do trust him. It'll be a tough choice, I think, for a lot of Israelis when they vote on Tuesday, whether they're going to try someone new or keep

with Netanyahu, someone they know very well. Derek, thank you so much. You're welcome. So that's the rundown of Israel's impending election. And here in Canada, we're seeing a run-up to our own election as well. On Sunday, Conservative opposition leader Andrew Scheer held a press conference, announcing he'd received a letter from the Prime Minister's lawyer on March 31st. That letter accused him of making, quote, highly defamatory comments with regards to the SNC-Lavalin affair.

Here's part of what Mr. Scheer had to say. I believe this is an attempt to stifle criticism of Justin Trudeau. This is a bullying attempt to try to prevent me from doing my constitutional duty as leader of the opposition. And the reason why I feel strongly about making this public is, first of all, so that Canadians can see the type of tactics that Mr. Trudeau will engage in, but also to challenge him to follow through with it. That's it for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging.

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