Front Burner - The politics of a dramatic COVID-19 surge in the U.S.

Episode Date: July 3, 2020

Today on Front Burner, CBC Washington correspondent Paul Hunter walks us through how the U.S. got to this point, President Donald Trump's role in it, and how even a mask has become a political statement.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Josh Bloch. Based on the latest data, our team of experts now agrees that we can begin the next front in our war, which we are calling opening up America again. And that's what we're doing.

We're opening up our country. And we have to do that. America wants to be open and Americans want to be open. That was U.S. President Donald Trump in April, announcing that he was opening the country back up. But that didn't mean that the COVID-19 pandemic was over. The country currently has 2.6 million cases, more than any other country in the world. And now in July, it's dealing with a massive surge with hotspots in Texas and Florida and Arizona. Today, Paul Hunter is here with me

to explain why the U.S. is struggling to control the pandemic. He's one of CBC's Washington correspondents. This is FrontBurner. Hello, Paul. Hey, how are you doing? I'm well. I want to start, you know, in order to understand how the U.S. got to where it is now, I want to go back and I want to talk about Texas. Can we go back to April?

You know, at that time, New York was still getting totally pummeled by this virus. Their shutdown was in effect. What was happening in Texas? Yeah, well, I mean, in mid-April in Texas, I think it's fair to say everyone was looking at New York. I mean, New York was dominating the headlines. Everyone was freaking out for New York. What a mess in New York. How awful in New York. I mean, New York was dominating the headlines. Everyone was freaking out for New York. What a mess in New York. How awful in New York. And they looked around their own state, Texas, let's say, which was far away from New York, and they saw lower numbers and what seemed like kind of a plateau. Lower numbers broadly that went up and down a little bit, up and down, but sort of the same, no real crisis. And everyone said, well, why are we suffering with our shops and restaurants closed? And so pressure mounted on the state government to reopen. And politicians basically caved. I mean,

the view was, and this is a paraphrased quote from the lieutenant governor of Texas who said, look, no one wants to die, but we got to get this country up and running again. And, you know, Tucker, no one reached out to me and said, as a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren? Keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in. And now people are dying.

I mean, it's sort of stunning, right? I think a lot of people look at what happened and they think, is having a drink at a crowded bar that big a deal? You know, I remember walking into the office one day and my assignment editor said to me, have you seen this video from the Ozarks? In Missouri, it's not Texas, right? But the same kind of thing. It was on, I think, Memorial Day weekend. And that we've all seen it, right? That packed swimming pool. And then, like, predictably, a few days go by and one by one by one, positive test, positive test.

And COVID exploded. In the case of Texas, they had one of the shortest shutdowns in the country. And I think it was on April 27th that the governor, Greg Abbott, announced that they would be opening up. We're now beginning to see glimmers that the worst of COVID-19 may soon be behind us. We've shown that we can both continue our efforts to contain the coronavirus while also adopting safe standards that will allow us to begin the process of reopening business in Texas. Tell me, what did that opening up look like in Texas? Crowded places again.

After several weeks of being stuck inside, thousands have flocked here to Bolivar Peninsula to make the most of their time while out. I've been in quarantine, and I need to get out and party! Woo! It's baffling, right? Like, all we've heard about the spread of the virus and the stakes, the consequences are that it comes from close human contact.

As for the enforcement of social distancing, the Galveston County Sheriff's office say it's challenging to enforce. I mean, you can't. It's just, it's not possible to do that on this beach with the amount of people that we have here. And if you're not wearing a mask, you're going to spread it if you have it. I mean, that's that has been one of the consistent messages from the get-go, which when you come back to the early reopening in places like Texas, it becomes the baffling question. I mean, you know, politicians, yeah, you could have not done it.

So politicians cave. But why do they cave? Why are people pushing for it is the question that millions of people in this country are struggling with. Like, I get the anti-science thing, right? The view held by a lot of people. That plays. I get the anti-intellectualism thing and the fake news alarmism, but this is demonstrably life and death. It just doesn't make any sense. You know, in Canada, in France, in the UK, we're seeing the numbers go down. In the US, there's this huge surge. I mean, 2.6 million cases is just an astonishing number. And then the director of the Center for Disease Control

estimated that the actual number is likely 10 times higher. That's like around 7% of Americans having the virus. It's kind of mind-boggling. You know, it's actually hard to process. Like, I don't know how to characterize it, right? Like, other than to underline that it is in this country, you know, it's far and away the worst on the planet. You know, these days, everyone thinks about it when you step outside, right? But here you worry about it every single day. There's so much of it out there, right? And yet, weirdly, it's all become kind of normalized.

I mean, it left the headlines for a while, you know, as the George Floyd death and Black Lives Matter grabbed everyone's attention, as it should. And then it kind of felt as if, well, maybe COVID will fade like it did in some of the other countries. But it isn't right. It's getting worse. It's kind of scary, to be honest. I mean, you factor it into everything you do here. Everything. I personally, I never leave my place without a mask on.

Never step outside the door. Never. I hold my breath when I pass people on the sidewalk because the numbers are so staggering and they're getting worse. It's a mess. Well, and right now, where are we seeing the most significant increases in infections? Texas, California, Florida, Arizona. If you hold out your hand and stretch out your fingers, I mean, New York, let's call that the palm of your hand. And then the fingers that are

spreading out, that's the coronavirus, you know, going on its merry way all over the place. So, you know, down the I-95, it came to Philadelphia and then to Baltimore and Washington. And again, all this time, the rest of the country is thinking, hey, it ain't so bad, right? Because it hadn't yet arrived. Remember when we all thought Florida was going to be an early hotspot? Well, it didn't happen. And then so they let their guard down and boom, here we are. I mean, the big worry now is this weekend, right? The July 4th holiday weekend and that it is going to supercharge the virus because everybody, they can't resist, you know, getting together, even in Florida. So this weekend, I think, I guess it's Miami and Fort Lauderdale, like in South Florida, they've closed the beaches, right?

I'm encouraging everybody. You should stay at home, celebrate with your families. Mayors from several cities announcing the closures heckled Sunday. Some beachgoers pushing back, yelling freedom. And this is America. But in Daytona Beach, a little further up the coast, the beaches are open. So the worry now in Daytona is that all the people who would have gone to Fort Lauderdale and Miami beaches, they're going to come up to Daytona Beach and be like triply jammed. And so they've got drones above the beach and they've got beach safety officers. But again, you want to laugh, right?

Because it seems comical, but it's serious and it is life and death. And again, the people that go out to the beaches, and this has been said countless times throughout this pandemic, it's not about you. It's about the people you'll give it to when you get it. It's about your aunt and uncle or your grandmother and your grandfather that you'll have and you won't realize it and you're going to give it to other people who get it and die. then free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

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this podcast, just search for Money for Cuts. Well, and in places like New York and in Italy and the other places that the virus hit hard, I mean, one of the really troubling, you know, the troubling stories that we were seeing from these places in the hospitals where doctors were saying we have limited resources, we only have so many ventilators and we were having to make these decisions about who can live and who can die. Are we getting to that place yet? Are we seeing that kind of situation where hospitals are overwhelmed with the number of serious cases of COVID-19? In these new states, I think what's interesting and what sets it apart a little bit from what we saw in the early days of this in the New York area is that all these other places, the Floridas and the Texas's and the California's of the country had time to prepare in terms of gear and up in Dallas and Houston, that the doctors and nurses are going through like six, seven, eight entire sets of gowns and masks each day. When back in New York,

remember, it was like you'd hear from doctors saying that they've worn the same mask for four straight days or something like that. So in a sense, these places are more prepared. But what's actually happening is the hospitals are filling up like they're getting if they're not at they're getting close to capacity in all these places. It's as if the lessons from earlier were never heeded. Like, look what's happening in New York. You can't not see it. So take action. And not enough action was taken, or the wrong action was taken as they reopened early. and as they reopened early. Well, and now you're seeing these governors in Washington and California and Florida and Texas all kind of walking back on this idea that they could open up so early. Thank you all for being with us. We're here today to discuss the recent increase in the number of COVID-19 cases in Texas. To state the obvious, COVID-19 is now spreading at an unacceptable rate in Texas,

and it must be corralled. And, you know, telling bars they have to close down again, in some cases, as you mentioned, closing down beaches. How is that response by the governors being received by the population? I think it's important to underline that this country is not the caricature it's often seen to be on this. And so, yes, you have all kinds of people who inexplicably are pushing back against the reimposition of rules to fight COVID. But there are millions of Americans who support what these governors are doing, even if it's a little late in the game. That said, the opposition to closing beaches for this long weekend is fierce. Opposition to closing

bars and restaurants is fierce. The group of bar owners in Texas who are actually suing the government right now because they've been mandated to close their doors. Totally. I mean, there's another side to all of this, right? People are hurting. The economy is a mess, right? On that front, it is a very real problem for millions of Americans. And so the frustrations are real.

We went to one of those Open America rallies in Harrisburg, capital of Pennsylvania, a few weeks ago. Get me a few weeks ago. And amid all the people shouting freedom, you know, and down with tyranny. I mean, I had a chat with a guy who is a small business owner whose business wasn't allowed to be open. And he said, but the big box stores are. Why is that? They get to be open. And by the way, they're very busy. And so they're making all kinds of money. And I've got bills to pay and I got food to buy, but I'm not allowed to open my business. So I get that, right? I think a lot of people see it as the government not trusting them

to run their places in a safe fashion. But then again, as the long weekend in May with that pool in the Ozarks showed, when you give people a chance to get together amid a pandemic, they overdo it and everyone pays the price for it. What's the president's role in all this? You know, people have talked a lot about Donald Trump and the mask and looking for leadership and or guidance. And he has done what he has done, which is to not wear one. And people pay attention to that, right? I mean, the way I put it is, for many people in this country, not wearing a mask is the new MAGA hat, right? Not wearing a mask says you stand with Donald Trump. I interviewed somebody about it a few weeks ago who told me that when she sees Trump

not wearing a mask, she sees someone who's strong, and she likes that. And so she doesn't wear a mask. That's the effect of Donald Trump, right? The question is why. Right. I mean, if you believe John Bolton's book, Bolton's view is that everything Trump does is through the prism of reelection. that I built this economy and only I can continue to grow it. So vote for me. And then came COVID. And then the economy tanked. But to connect the dots on Trump's thinking, if you want to presume to try that, you might see, you know, if Trump wears a mask, it acknowledges the power of COVID

and sends a signal the economy is actually in very deep trouble. And therefore, that big reason to vote for him is gone. So no mask. I mean, even this week with nearly, what are we, nearly 3 million cases right now of COVID. He walks in the White House briefing room to talk about job numbers and the economy ticking up. It was just put out that the United States economy added almost 5 million jobs in the month of June, shattering all expectations. The stock market is doing extremely well, which means to me jobs.

That's what it means, jobs. This is the largest monthly jobs gain in the history of our country. Because that's his ticket, right? Barely a mention of COVID or, as he called it again, the China virus. You know, if you look, we were talking this morning, something to think about. China was way early and they're getting under control. We followed them with this terrible China virus. And we are likewise getting under control.

Some areas that were very hard. Because that implies it's not his fault. So that's that's what that's the message Americans are getting from their president. And not only is he not wearing a mask, but he's actually making fun of people who do. I mean, he made fun of a journalist for wearing a mask. Your second question was? I couldn't hear you. Can you take it off?

Because I cannot hear you. I'll just speak louder, sir. Okay, good. You want to be politically correct. Go ahead. No, sir. I just want to wear the mask. Go ahead.

He makes fun of the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate, Joe Biden, for wearing a mask. Joe Biden can wear a mask, but he was standing outside with his wife, perfect conditions, perfect weather. They're inside, they don't wear masks. And so I thought it was very unusual that he had one on. He will signal reporters to pull the mask off when they're asking questions now. Like he'll just, he'll motion, take your mask off, you know. Yeah, so he's forceful on that. So the mask has become politicized.

Yeah. Now, he might be changing on that. I mean, there is this suggestion that he's coming around. I mean, he was, he gave an interview this week and said, look, I've got no problem with masks. I wear them in tight situations. And I think he said that he looks good in a mask. He looks like the Lone Ranger or something. I'm not sure that that analogy actually works.

I'm all for masks. I think masks are good. I would wear if I were in a group of people and I was close. You would wear one. Oh, I would. I would. Oh, I have. I mean, people have seen me wearing one. If I were in a tight situation with people, I would absolutely. The public will see that at some point. I mean, I have seen me wearing one. If I were in a tight situation with people, I would absolutely. Do you think the public will see that at some point? I mean, I'd have no problem. Actually, I had a mask on. I sort of liked the way I looked. OK, I thought it was OK.

It was a dark black mask and I thought it looked OK. It looked like the Lone Ranger. But we'll see. You know, I mean, I think it would be if Trump were to do that, that would say to those same, you know, to Trump nation, it's OK to wear one. Now, what might drive him to do that are, you know, continuing reports now that that the longer and stronger this pandemic continues to be allowed to grow in this country, the worse the economy is going to be. the worse the economy is going to be. So if Trump is still trying as his broad poll numbers go down the toilet, Trump may well, you know, see it as I have to do this in order to save the economy. So I'll put on a mask and then maybe this thing can be slowed down and then maybe the economy can turn around in time for November. I mean, it's interesting. It sends a powerful message,

obviously, when you have the leader of the country, you know, donning a mask or choosing not to. I understand that even you yourself, when you were walking around with the mask, have had received response from people who question what message you're trying to send by wearing a mask. It's kind of weird, you know. I mean, D.C. is a democratic, liberal, progressive place. Right. But even in the early days of this, people that wore masks were kind of, you know, you could see people looking at you out of the sides of their eyes and things like that. But then very quickly it became the opposite, where now it is pretty much everybody you see wears one here. And those who don't are the pariahs. But that doesn't mean that there aren't weird things that happen.

I was walking by a Starbucks the other day and people started shouting at me because I had a mask on. I actually, I didn't feel like engaging. So I crossed the street to go around that. I went to last week, the week before I was in North Carolina, just a little bit of a getaway in a sort of cabin in the woods. But went for a walk in a park, in a national park. And nobody's wearing masks in North Carolina, which is kind of has a hot zone thing happening right now. And this family's coming the other way with, I don't know, five or six people.

Nobody's wearing masks, right? As the family's passing, you take a step out of the pathway a little bit to create a little bit of distance. And the 10-year-old son says to his dad, look at the crazy people. They look like crazy people with those things. And I'm thinking, oh, man, like, what are you telling your kids? But that's what you get. And again, I have to underline, this is not everybody in this country, but it is millions of people who see there's something wrong, don't believe it, it's fake news, whatever it is, but it doesn't make any sense.

Well, to what extent do you think that this recent surge of infections in the U.S. is a consequence of the way this virus has been so politicized? You know, I don't know. I mean, the truth is, you know, no one can say for sure what would have happened. Would this be different? Would this be like some of the countries that we've seen in Europe? But, you know, Anthony Fauci, the lead scientist on this for the White House, has pointed to Italy as the counter example. I mean, there's a lot that people still don't know, a ton that people still don't know, a ton that people still don't know about this virus. So it's hard to say what would have happened if. But Fauci

this week went on about how numbers went up in other countries and they clamped down hard and it hurt. But then the spread of the virus slowed, you know, and that's not true in this country where the rules were relaxed. And then the opposite happened predict virus slowed. And that's not true in this country, where the rules were relaxed. And then the opposite happened, predictably. And now they're skyrocketing. And people are dying. And tens of thousands more every day are getting sick. Remember the headline this week from Fauci was it could hit 100,000 infections a day.

Think about that. We are now having 40-plus thousand new cases a day. Now having 40 plus thousand new cases a day, I would not be surprised if we go up to 100,000 a day if this does not turn around. And so I am very concerned. Well, so with Fauci advising him, President Trump, that things can get much worse with the numbers spiking. At what point do you think the president will have to change his tack on how he's approaching this virus? I mean, is there a certain threshold, a number of infections or a number of deaths where it's just not tenable anymore to not take the virus more seriously? I don't know. You know, you don't like like nobody can can figure in, in the four years Donald Trump

has been in office, nobody has been able to predict the steps he'll take next, you know, to bring it back to Fauci. We just haven't, until he testified on Capitol Hill this week, we haven't really heard much from him lately. And people kind of think, has that been because he's been nudged away because he was saying things that Trump didn't like to hear? And you can only presume that Anthony Fauci, you know, an expert on this stuff knows what he's talking about. And yet it seems to be ignored. could be seen as likely to change Trump's view would be if people can convince him that the worse this gets,

the more likely the economy will not rebound in time for him to, in any meaningful way, in time for him to get reelected in November. And we don't know, so we'll see. We'll be watching closely. Paul, thank you so much for speaking with me. My pleasure. An update to this story before we let you go.

On Thursday afternoon, Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced that masks are now mandatory in much of his state. Texans in counties that have more than 20 cases must wear a mask in public. And if they don't, they could face fines of more than $250 U.S. dollars. Children under 10, people who are exercising or eating, are exempt from the rule. Governor Abbott, who initially resisted calls to make masks mandatory, said that he made the decision because, quote, COVID-19 is not going away. In fact, it's getting worse. That's all for this week. FrontBurner is brought

to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Sarah Jackson, Allie Janes, Nahayat Tzizouche, and Derek Vanderwyk. Mandy Sham does our sound design with help from Mac Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Chabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producers of FrontBurner this week were Shannon Higgins and Elaine Chao. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening. Back on Monday.

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