Front Burner - The road to election day

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

It’s election day. The campaign has been short, but it’s been packed with plenty of drama. From annexation talk and economic chaos to stunning polls reversals to internal party blowups. Today we’re speaking with host of the The House podcast Catherine Cullen to spend a bit of time marveling at what an eventful several months this has been and talk about how things could have been different. We’ll also get into what she’s looking for as the results come in.  Make sure to watch our election night livestream TONIGHT starting at 8pm Eastern. You can find it here on the CBC News YouTube channel and on the CBC News TikTok.

When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. There's a man living in this address in the name of a deceased. He's one of the most wanted men in the world. This isn't really happening. Officers are finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies from CBC's Uncovered, available now.

This is a CBC Podcast. Hey everyone, it's Jamie here. We have a conversation today with the CBC's Catherine Cullen looking back at this extraordinary campaign on election day. But before we get into that, I want to acknowledge what is probably on so many of your minds, which is the horrific car ramming attack that happened in Vancouver at the Lapu Lapu Day block party on Saturday night. As of this recording, 11 people are confirmed dead and dozens more are injured.

We've got an extra today after the interview that will go over what we know as of this recording early Sunday evening. So please stay with us for that after the interview. All right. Now my conversation with Catherine. Well, it's here, Election Day. The campaign has been short, but it's been packed with plenty of drama, from annexation talk and economic chaos to stunning poll reversals to internal party blowups. Today my colleague, host of the House podcast, Catherine Cullen, is here with me. I want to spend a bit of time marveling at what an eventful several months this has been and talk about how things could have been different. We'll also get into what she's looking for tonight

as the results come in. And again, I hope that you will all join us for our live stream watch party of sorts. It starts at 8 p.m. Eastern time tonight on CBC News YouTube page and the CBC News TikTok page. We are doing political trivia right off the top. Come play along with us. You'll also be able to see commotions Elamin Abdul-Makhmoud and I get completely annihilated by Jeopardy champ Matea Roach. It's going to be a really good time.

Plus results, analysis from a bunch of front burner regulars. So again, I really do hope that you'll join us. Catherine, it's great to see you and in person too. Yeah, so nice to be here with you, Jamie. Let's do a little bit of reminiscing, shall we? I was actually hoping to start this conversation with Krista Freeland because a very strong case can be made that we would not be here today and certainly not with how everything has unfolded if she had not resigned as finance minister

back in December. On Friday you told me you no longer want me to serve as your finance minister and offered me another position in the cabinet. Upon reflection, I have concluded that the only honest and viable path is for me to resign from the cabinet. Upon reflection, I have concluded that the only honest and viable path is for me to resign from the cabinet. To be effective, a minister must speak on behalf of the Prime Minister and with his full confidence. In making your decision, you made it clear that I no longer credibly enjoy that confidence and possess the authority that comes with it.

Was she ever the catalyst in all of this? Remember, Jamie, the Liberal Caucus had been unhappy for months, and there had been these attempts to oust Trudeau, and they had just all fallen flat, and then this incredible moment of drama. I still remember where I was. I will be an old lady in a rocking chair. I will still remember. So I was on the bus to go to the lockup

for the economic statement that we were supposed to get that day. And one of the journalists saw her tweet saying she was resigning and yelled out in French, Freeland, Demission, she's quitting. And like a gasp went up amongst all the journalists. It flipped Canadian politics on its head. She did not get rewarded though, ultimately let's say for that move, right?

If you're Brutus, you don't necessarily get to be Caesar. Yes, yeah, good lesson there. All right, so freelance at this thing in motion is like one too many things for Trudeau to kind of fight off, fend off, right? And he takes the Christmas holidays to think about his future. At the time, the liberals were like completely dead, right?

Like we were talking projection 45 seats, wipeout. And then he resigns at the beginning of January. This country deserves a real choice in the next election. And it has become clear to me that if I'm having to fight internal battles, I cannot be the best option in that election. And then enter Mark Carney, who, a relative political newcomer, goes on to win the Liberal leadership race. In first place, the next Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Carney, with 131,674 votes, resulting in 29,457 allocated points, representing 85.9% of the vote.

If Carney wins tonight, as the polls are projecting, and especially if he wins a majority, how much credit do you think he will get personally for this stunning change of fortunes for the liberals? Yeah, a little bit of a cocktail here, right? And a big part of that cocktail, Jamie, is luck. I mean, Mark Carney has been flirting with politics for the better part of a decade. Personally, when people would bring up his name in Ottawa, I would sort of say, like, wake me up when we get there.

We keep hearing about this guy. Where is he? As you say, he has fully entered the chat now. And the timing, the reason we say luck is because the timing, I think, is so significant, right? There is a sense amongst some Canadians that he is the man for the moment. People are really attracted to his CV, this idea that he was a two-time central banker, as a foil to what is going on with Donald Trump.

He keeps talking about the fact that he's not a politician. There are things that he does that when I think about the norms in the way that politicians talk, he is breaking all the rules. When he does things like he says, well, I'm just going to repeat myself here. I know you've already heard me say this. And it's like, have you ever heard Pierre Pauli say that? He repeats himself 72 times in a speech because he is trying to hammer home a message and he never seems a bit sheepish about it. Mark Kearney said at one point, this really stuck with me, the Globe and Mail keeps using this quote over and over. He said, if there's not a crisis, you wouldn't be seeing me. Honest, I am most useful in a

crisis. I'm not that good at peacetime. Again, in this moment, this seems to be working for him because we've had Justin Trudeau, who was very slick and polished. The person he's running against, Pierre Poliev, is again really, really focused in his political communication. So what Carney offers, the fact that it's a little bit different and the way it's fitting into this moment, the polls are suggesting that that has given him some real news. Of course, this coincides with a lot of the 51st state stuff ramping up and the first kind of blanket tariff announcements from Trump. But at the same time, around the end of February, that's when it became quite clear that Carney was going to run away with the liberal leadership race.

But the polling is incredible. It just actually goes up like a hockey stick and then just has stayed there pretty much throughout the duration of this campaign. I know it's gone down a little bit. I think everything has happened so quickly. And I know some journalists or even just regular folks might say, well, the campaign has been kind of boring. But everything, as we're talking to, everything in the lead up to that was anything but boring.

It's like somebody took the snow globe of Canadian politics and just shook it up. All the pieces changed. People's expectations changed. The way Canadians were feeling, they had been so mad at Justin Trudeau and Justin Trudeau's government. And a lot of that anger has turned towards Donald Trump. So, you know, in comedy, they say timing is everything. That is true in politics too, certainly for Mark Carney, it seems. It's an interesting thought exercise to think of what might have happened if Carney hadn't put his hand up here, right? If Christa Freeland or someone like Dominique LeBlanc had won the leadership.

I think those are two very different scenarios. Again, if you think back, liberals were like, a significant number of liberals were pretty devastated that LeBlanc decided not to run. He's not necessarily a huge household name across Canada, but he's very well liked in liberal circles. And I'll tell you, he's somebody who's liked across the aisle too. But I think things would have looked very different because Dominique LeBlanc was still very much associated with Justin Trudeau and I don't think we would have seen the same kind of circumstances. Carney ultimately has represented change

and I'm sure that's very frustrating for Pierre Poliev who keeps talking about change and is pointing out, well, it's the same party, it's just a different guy at the head of it. Kristi Freeland would have had an even harder time. She was the original Trudeau liberal, she's very closely associated with him, even if she did ultimately push him off a political cliff. She also had some pretty serious communications

problems. I don't think she connected with Canadians in quite the way that she would have hoped. And I think the political picture would look totally different. Also talking about this idea of being able to project change, do you think that the relationship between Trudeau and Trump, which was clearly fraught, right, benefited Mark Carney in the end? It's a mixed bag, because actually I think when Canadians have felt anxious, the calm and experience that Mark Carney has tried to project has worked for him. I do think there's an interesting question. Pierre Polyov has kind of tried to insinuate that Mark Carney is taking credit for the fact that things have been calm right now, but I actually think the liberals have been pretty careful not to do that because

Donald Trump is so unpredictable. I think for Canadians, there's still a really meaningful question about how much of this animus is about Justin Trudeau. The folks around Trudeau would tell you that when those two guys were in the same room or on the phone, Trump and Trudeau, that Trump really liked him. But I think it's clear that this Governor Trudeau thing, this belittling thing, it's very Trumpy. It is something he liked to do. And I'm incredibly curious to see how President Trump deals with whomever wins the election.

I mean, both of those, you know, you want to talk thought exercises, both of those scenarios, Poliev and Carney. It's a really interesting set of possibilities. It struck me, you know, talking about how Carney was able to, I think, benefit from his role as prime minister during this campaign, it struck me that he was able to take advantage of both being the prime minister and acting like the prime minister, but also, I think, key here, being an economist and in many ways explaining what was happening for Canadians. I'm thinking of when he came out and said that the world trading system,

as we knew it, was over after Liberation Day. The global economy is fundamentally different today than it was yesterday. The system of global trade anchored on the United States that Canada has relied on since the end of the Second World War, a system that, while not perfect, has helped to deliver prosperity for our country for decades, is over. While this is a tragedy,

it is also the new reality. He was explaining to people what was happening in the world. Yeah, I think that that is true. I think also though, it is specifically being able to say, I have dealt with crises before, right? So 2008 financial crisis, he was the governor of the Bank of Canada. And of course, he was the governor of the Bank of England during Brexit. And the conservatives, knowing that this is a strong suit for Mark Carney, they really have tried to some extent to prosecute him on that, um, suggesting he's taking too much credit for the 2008 financial crisis and his role in it, that, you know, Stephen Harper and the late Jim Flaherty, who was finance minister at the time, that

they are the ones deserving of the credit. I say that as the guy who actually did lead Canada through the global financial crisis. I hear there's someone else claiming it was him. I've heard Pierre Polyov say, listen, like lots of people in the UK didn't like Mark Carney very much. He was called a unreliable boyfriend by one British, I believe it was a British MP.

But I just don't, I think that if Pierre Polyov is gonna find success, I don't think there's any evidence that that is the path for it, right? If Pierre Polyov is gonna find success, it going to be more by focusing on what is going on in this country. Trying to take down Carney's CV, I don't think we've seen any evidence that that's resonating with people. Now our change will honour the Supreme Court of Canada and its role in protecting the rights and freedoms of all Canadians. Its guiding motto of justice and truth has defined its decisions since 1875. The new $1 commemorative coin

features a semicircle of laurels, symbolizing the nine judges and the court's enduring commitment to justice. Find the limited edition, 150th anniversary of the Supreme Court of Canada coin today. Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA

and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you gotta know, and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighbourhood or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk a little bit about the conservatives, not campaigning against Trudeau, but also Trump looming so large were the big things that clearly threw off the conservatives and Pierre Poliev during this election campaign.

Basically a week into the campaign, we saw internal polling data from Ontario leaked to the media from within the party and criticisms coming from within them. From the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party, yeah. And criticisms from people like Corey Tonike, who heads Doug Ford's campaign, that the Polio campaign needed to get on the Trump question in a much bigger way. And looking back, if they do not win tonight, if the Conservatives do not win tonight like the polls project, is that going to go down as their biggest mistake, you think?

I am of two minds about this. What would that look like? Like really, truly, what would it look like for Pierre Poliev to have taken Donald Trump more seriously than he did? He has laid out a policy, you know it look like for Pierre Polyov to have taken Donald Trump more seriously than he did? He has laid out a policy. Canada first for a change. He kicked off the campaign with this big rally in Ottawa that was very wrapped and steeped in patriotism. Only in this country could a refugee from Venezuela, who started in a basement Montreal

apartment and the son of a teenage mother, raised by two school teachers, dream of standing on this stage leading Canada's national founding political party. He has policies to deal with Trump. He has said Trump back off. I'm not on your side. We have to be prepared for the worst. Simply put, we can no longer depend on the Americans alone for our trade. We can no longer think of them as our backup defense.

These threats, my friends, are a wake up call. We should be the wealthiest and most self-reliant economy in the world today. The counter argument to that though, is that there were certainly days where he was out there doing very specific announcements that were things that would have been perhaps dreamed up months ago before Donald Trump was a meaningful contributor to this campaign. And that maybe on some of those days, he should have been talking about Donald Trump. The other part of this, of course, is the criticism that some people think he's too Trump-y. But the pivot itself, I think there are some conservatives at the center of the Poli-F campaign who throw up their hands and go like, well, what exactly are you asking for here?

They tried. What did they say about the criticism that he's too Trumpy? You know, and do you think that he succeeded in reassuring voters that he is a lot different from Trump? I have talked to campaigners, candidates in different parties and in parts of the country, they are hearing over and over again at the doors that he's a mini Trump. And that is a problem for the Conservative Party. There's no two ways around it. And this is a complicated thing. Donald Trump is not a policy wonk. Come on. Piyarpolyev is, right?

Piyarpolyev, you can like or dislike his plans for the country. He has thought seriously about them. Donald Trump's greatest political talent, if you wanna call it that, is being an improviser, is like kind of pulling things out of thin air sometimes that throw people off their balance and just allow him to sort of hold this power. That's not what Pierre Polyov does. Now, again, if we're gonna look at the other side

of this though, there's no question that there's overlap in terms of like a war on woke, right? A belittling of your political opponents and journalists, a sort of tonal thing that I think people are responding to. The nicknames, yeah. Yes. So while I think, you know, there are a lot of ways in which the two are fundamentally different. I thought this is like politics too. A lot of it is gut feelings, Jamie. And I think when people just sort of feel that there's something there, it's kind of hard to talk them out of it.

The other like historical what if I was thinking about, and I know that the conservatives still have a ton of support, right? Like they could lose the election tonight with 39% of the popular vote, which is a lot. And in the past has been more than enough to form a government. But on this Trumpy thing, it seems like

if the liberals win tonight, it will be because of the collapse of the NDP, of vote shedding from the block. And Poliev does seem to concern those voters a lot, right? I don't know, it would just be interesting to see if the same election played out with a more centrist conservative candidate, someone like an Aaron O'Toole, for example,

like what would have happened then? Yeah. But like, I don't know if you can put the toothpaste back in the tube and there, there are, I think a couple of interesting things about that. Um, the question about the NDP. So let's take that first. Are those people moving just because of Donald Trump, because they want a strong government, or are they moving because they are worried that also or specifically that where Pierre Poliak would take the country is too contrary to their views? It's sort of hard to

disentangle, I think, what's going on there. And as for a more centrist candidate and what that would do to the conservatives' fortunes themselves, not so much the NDP fortunes, you have to remember, Piotr Poliev, as you say, like the polls suggesting he has the kind of numbers that brought the conservatism majority government in 2011, he has, it appears, successfully reached younger voters in a really meaningful way for the conservative party that kind of turns conventional wisdom, certainly of years past, on its head with this laser focus of what was troubling them, affordability and housing issues. And in some ways, I think some of those people really like that, well, his elbow's up in a very different way, but that cutting tone.

And so I wonder if you put someone else in their place, do some of those voters slip away, the people who maybe haven't voted before but are gonna show up on election day to vote for Pierre Polyev, do those voters disappear too? So I just think it's very hard to see how it works in real life. I mean, lots of interesting questions. It raises a lot of interesting questions. So we've talked a lot about how Trump has been really a problem for Poliab, but let's talk about where he succeeded in this campaign.

This is the part of the campaign that predates Trump, right? Which is this, as we were saying, the focus on cost of living, affordability. I mean, it's pretty wild when you just look at the historical trends that voters would consider giving the liberals a fourth mandate and possibly a fourth majority mandate.

The sheer amount of time that the party would be governing the country, that really does buck historical trends. So where Polly Evers had more success, it is pushing on that change button, pushing on that what has always been the classic question in, forget Canadian elections, just elections, which is, is your life better or worse than when these other guys started governing? And there are a lot of things, cost of living, housing, Polly of likes to talk about crime a lot, where people instinctively feel that things are worse. There's a multitude of factors that play into this, the pandemic, supply chains, you name it. But prosecuting the liberals on that has been, was a winning issue for him in the fall.

And then Trump came along and mixed that up. But for a lot of, you know, what I hear from conservatives all the time is that for young people, they feel like this is a generational struggle, right? And they feel like for young people, they still really want to hear that part of the equation. Now, Mark Carney has stuff to offer on that front, too, but Pierre Polyaev has sort of made it his brand, and it does seem to be where he has been finding the political success that he has found in this campaign. We're just going to find out tonight whose message carried the day for more people.

And certainly towards the end of the campaign, Trump receded a bit, and there was more space for those issues. Yes, and you do, like there are places in the country where you look at the polls and it suggests there's a tightening. I mean, I think at this point, it's really hard to know people are going to step behind that little cardboard divider and they're going to vote based on what's on their minds. But it's true. Trump really has, I think, receded and it will be interesting to see where that has left people, not only in the liberal conservative split, but I think very significantly. NDP voters who were ready to move over to Carney because of Trump, who maybe aren't feeling as threatened right now. Bloc Quebecois voters who were ready to move over to Carney. Are they going to go home a little bit?

Yeah, or did people actually just make up their minds three weeks ago and go, Bloc Quebecois voters who were ready to move over to Carnegie. Are they going to go home a little bit? Yeah. Or did people actually just make up their minds three weeks ago and go, okay, I'm done with this election. I'll put the X or the check on my ballot when there's time. We really don't know. That's a very live question to me, and it is the one that we can only really get the answer to tonight. Another interesting element of the campaign I wanted to ask you about has been this threat

of Western alienation. So Preston Manning, former leader of the Reform Party, wrote this op-ed saying that if Canadians elect another liberal government, Western separatist sentiment will explode. Whatever the results are tonight, how do you think this issue of national unity will play? I think it's really, um, it is a really interesting question. I will say like certainly, I interviewed Preston Manning on the House. It upsets some people that like we would even have this conversation, right? Because they feel like he's trying to tear the country apart.

There are people in Alberta who say, listen, he doesn't represent the majority of Albertans. Like, why are you giving this point of view airtime? At the same time, I think he does represent a discontent that is very real among Albertans, even those who would not even begin to think of Western secession, who feel so not only neglected, more than neglected by the Liberal Party, but wronged on resource issues and the fact that they're not able to get more of their resources, their oil out of the ground and sold to other markets. And so I think it's important. I just think it's really important to hear each other out on this question.

And so with that in mind, with the sense that hearing each other out is an important part of this, I think it's going to depend. I mean, according to Preston Manning, this is only an issue of Mark Carney wins. How effective is Mark Carney going to be both in listening to Alberta and frankly, what he's pitching, which is he says he wants more resource extraction. He wants an emphasis on a cleaner economy, but he's not opposed to another pipeline, for instance. So can he deliver on what he's saying?

I think the flip side of that though that you have to consider is if Pierre Poliev wins, even though support for Quebec sovereignty is not particularly high either, you can imagine a country that is polarized in a different kind of way where Quebecers see somebody who they perceive as an Albertan because Pierre Poliev is from Alberta, obviously his writings in Ottawa, who's like bring on the resource extraction and perhaps feel a bit more alienated at a time where in Quebec the Père-Tigui-Bécoil leader, the party that could actually initiate a referendum, is popular. Now, again, not necessarily because of sovereignty that has to do with other factors about who's running in Quebec, but I think like all of this could be a really live

discussion in the coming years. I know that tonight you are doing a bunch of results for several provinces on the main TV special. And just give me a sense of what you are going to be looking for as results come in that would serve as signals for how the night could play out. So Nova Scotia is one of the provinces that I'm responsible for. It's going to be some of the first results that we see coming in over the course of the night. The province has 11 ridings, three of them went conservative last election.

So the question I'm going to be asking myself, can the conservatives hold on to those ridings? There's maybe even a world where they make a gain or two, but there is certainly also a world where the liberals take an even greater portion of the province. In 2015, all of Nova Scotia was red. So getting a sense of where the trends go there and whether the NDP can at least have a somewhat significant presence

in the writing of Halifax proper, because that has been a seat for them in the past. Perhaps they won't win it, but if they show up, I think that's a good sign for the NDP. I am watching Quebec with its 78 ridings. Big number, you wanna watch the bloc, right? Are they gonna make their presence felt? That will have an implication for whomever forms government. Also interesting to see if things don't go well

for the bloc, do the liberals scoop all of those seats up? Could the conservatives grab a few? That's gonna matter. And finally, I'm going to be watching Alberta, not necessarily usually the most shocking province, Jamie. It is the Conservative heartland. But there are a handful of seats. Observers say, you know, maybe we're talking six or eight where you could see some movement. Can the Liberals grow their two seats in the province? That too, I think, will tell us an interesting part of the story of what Canada is going to decide tonight.

Um, okay. And just, I want to end here kind of with where we started with Trudeau and his decision to step down. And I guess another historical what if, because they're kind of fun. What if he had stepped down sooner, do you think? Do you think that we would still be where we are today? No, and I feel like I can be pretty categorical about that because Donald

Trump is the one who shook up this big snow globe, right? He changed the way we feel about the country and our sovereignty and I just think the picture would look different. You know, would the results be different? Who knows? But the trajectory, the political path we've been on, there's no way it's the same if we're doing all of this in the fall. And it's so interesting too because it will like tie into Trudeau's legacy. Anyways, I love chatting about this stuff. Catherine, thank you very much.

Let's do it again sometime. Okay, so here is what we know so far about what happened in Vancouver on Saturday night. This was the second annual Lapu Lapu Day block party, a street festival to celebrate the Filipino-Canadian community with music, shows, and food. And it was a joyous event. Organizers estimate around 100,000 people showed up throughout Saturday. It was just after 8 p.m., soon after the headliners had performed and things were winding down, that the suspect drove a black Audi SUV through the crowds. Chris Pangolinan, a vendor at the festival told CBC that he washed the driver slowly pick up speed and then slam on the gas. It was like seeing a bowling ball hit all the bowling pins and all the pins go flying up in the air.

There were bodies that were just flying up and you just see them like in twisted in so many different ways and it just kept going and going and going. People were screaming and trying to run away. Community members grabbed the suspect and held him until police arrived. As of this recording, 11 people are confirmed dead, including a five-year-old. Police say dozens more are injured and that the death toll may rise in the coming days. The suspect, a 30-year-old man, is now in custody. This is the darkest day in our city's history. Last night, as thousands of members of Vancouver's Filipino community gathered for an important cultural celebration, the actions of a single person shattered our collective sense of safety.

Interim Vancouver Police Chief Steve Rye hasn't released many details on the suspect, but said that he has previously had significant interactions with police due to mental health related issues. While many have questioned whether the man deliberately targeted the Filipino community, Rai said police do not believe that his motives included terrorism. So for terrorism there should be some political, religious ideology, ideation behind it. There's no indicators that this individual had that. And obviously the history we have with him leads towards that there wasn't any other indicators. Political leaders adjusted their last day of campaigning in light of the attack. NDP

leader Jagmeet Singh, who had been at the Lapu Lapu festival just before the attack, cancelled several campaign events for Sunday, and returned to Vancouver. He was visibly emotional, a depressor in Penticton. I keep on thinking about the kids that I met, the joy. I was there literally minutes before this happened, and I can't stop thinking about how much happiness

was there, how much it was a family event. People were so positive and so joyful and then to have such a horrific thing happen, I keep on replaying it. Liberal leader Mark Carney also canceled several campaign rallies. As of this recording, he was expected to be in Vancouver Sunday evening.

Last night, families lost a sister, a brother, a mother, a father, a son or a daughter. Those families are living every family's nightmare. And to them and to the many others who were injured, to the Filipino-Canadian community, and to everyone in the broader Lower Mainland, Vancouver, I would like to offer my deepest condolences and my wishes for strength and compassion

in this tragic time. Conservative leader Pierre Poliev spoke on Sunday morning in a Filipino church in Mississauga. All Canadians are united with you in mourning the loss of these treasured lives and in binding our country together to support the surviving loved ones. In the meantime, the Filipino community

in Vancouver is in mourning. We are collectively shattered, but we are coming together as a community. Mabel Elmore, a BCMLA and Filipino-Canadian, choked up at a press conference about the tragedy. We are in incredible pain. The Filipino community will show true resilience and we will come together out of this catastrophe with the support and the love from the broad community, from all of you in the public. Victim services are available 24-7 in 240 languages through the BC government for witnesses or anyone else who experienced trauma as a result of this attack. You can go to victimlinkbc.ca or call 1-800-563-0808.

All right. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Please take care and we'll talk to you tomorrow. All right. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Please take care and we'll talk to you tomorrow.