Front Burner - The secret network that helped Rahaf Mohammed escape

Episode Date: March 4, 2019

Reporter Nahlah Ayed discovered a private group chat where women are helping each other flee repressive regimes

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And keep it all sounding fresh with great archival tape, music, radio dramas, you name it. The news is changing every day and so is their show. Subscribe to Today Explained now. You can find it on your favorite podcast app or wherever you get FrontBurner. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. You may remember the story of Rahaf Mohammed. The 18-year-old from Saudi Arabia escaped her family earlier this year. She found herself barricaded in a hotel room in Thailand, her passport confiscated,

pleading through a video for help from the United Nations. I want asylum with you in. I will be wait. Her story went viral, and Rahaf was soon after granted asylum here, in Canada. Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland even greeted her at the airport. This is Rahaf Al-Khan room, a very secretive online chat group of women helping her and others in their attempts to flee Gulf countries. Today, Nala Ayyad on this brave group and the incredible perils that they face. This is Front Perner. Hi, Nala.

Hello. Thanks so much for joining us today. It's great to see you. So I remember back in January watching the video that Rahaf made, and I remember thinking to myself how lonely and terrified this young woman must feel. Who? Huh? What do you want?

I think there's probably still a great deal of truth to that. But I understand you've also discovered that there was, at this time, this network of people supporting her in that moment. And can you tell me more about that? And can you tell me more about that? Well, I think it's important to start off by saying that, you know, this is just a regular private chat group like you would have, like any of us might have, of just ordinary people, a hidden private group that functions like the thousands that we know out there on Facebook or on other social media. So there are mostly women from Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates who came together

because of the circumstances that they live. So in their case, it's the repression and their unequal status in those countries. And those are pretty well established, I think, by all accounts. And because they felt that all those things should change and that perhaps it was in their power to make those things change. So it's a closed group. It's a hidden group. And it's by invitation only. And it has a presence in Canada, I should say that. And they're always in touch. They're always

writing each other to discuss the challenges of their daily lives. I would be on the group 24-7. We're all sisters to each other, yeah. A lot of them have an interest or had an interest in leaving the lives that they led in Saudi Arabia and Arab Emirates and claiming asylum in the West and preferably in Canada. If one of you is leaving, how would the conversation go? No one sleeps. We all like stay awake just to check. Are they in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states as well as all over the world? Correct. Because a large number of those people in the group joined it or are there because they want to leave or wanted to leave. So in fact, a large number of those people in the group joined it or are there because they want to leave or wanted to leave.

So in fact, a large number of them have left, and they are all over the world. So they connect from this continent to Europe to all the way to Australia and other places, and of course also the Middle East. So it's a very small group, but it's a very widespread one. There are about three dozen women, so it's not very big at all. It's very small. And more than half of them have left their countries of origin and claimed asylum elsewhere. I understand it was the women in this group who encouraged Rahaf to make this video.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, essentially they act, I mean, people say, well, underground group, what does that mean? What it means is that whatever you can do online, these people are doing in that they provide advice, they provide support, they help guide each other spoke to, we've named her Jay, to protect her identity. She said, we were writing to her and saying, Rav, make a video. Make a video, show your face so that people know you're a real person, that this would help her case. She was very scared to show with her full face. We were telling her, Rav, if you didn't do that, you will die. So just do it. And so she took their advice and she made the video, which by many accounts actually made a difference in how many people paid attention to her case. And did Rahaf have support from this group even before that point?

That's our understanding, correct. Yeah, that actually some members of the group had been in touch with her long before she had even planned an escape. But yes, she was in this group as far as we know. So you mentioned Jay, one of the women in this group. Can you tell me about her and her story? I mean, she is 20 years old. She's a graduate.

Actually, I should say, this was the moment when she started crying. She missed finishing her degree by one exam. She missed it by one day. She was going to get a degree in university in a major field of the sciences. She's a very smart young lady from Saudi Arabia. And she decided to leave because she lived in an abusive home. Even more importantly, she was one of the people in this group who considered herself an activist. an activist. So she was actually on Twitter publicly, but with a fake name, calling for the fall, the downfall of the guardianship laws in Saudi Arabia. I was feeling that's my life in

danger because I'm an activist on Twitter. I was like always tweeting in the drop guardianship hashtag, talking about how much that system affects Saudi women's lives in a negative way. She was vocal, calling for those laws to be repealed or to be dropped. So one day, one of her, somebody lesser known than she is on Twitter, was arrested for her activism. And so Jay was extremely concerned and thought maybe she might be next. So she decided to fast track her plans and get out as soon as possible. And these guardianship laws that you mentioned, this is the laws in Saudi Arabia that prevent women from traveling

without the permission of a male relative, for example, or even moving freely around the country. Essentially, I mean, when you ask Saudi women to describe it, especially the ones who aren't happy with it, they'll say that it's actually a form of keeping women as perpetual minors so that no matter what decision they make, there has to be a male involved. So whether it's marriage or getting a passport or traveling. So yes, that's what, so you have a guardian.

There's always a guardian. If it's not your father, then it's your husband. If not your husband, then your son or your brother, even if they're younger than you. Can you tell me about R, another woman that you met in this group? She is also 20 years old. She has a degree in special education. And she, interestingly, she decided very early that she wanted to leave home. And she decided, even before she graduated high school, that she wanted to no longer be Muslim.

So she became an atheist. We always treat women differently than men. They would always, like, I would see laws that I'll be like, why are we differentiating between women and men? Like, we're equal. Although she knew that, though, she decided to finish her degree before she made a move to leave. She's from the Emirates. She's 20 years old. She says she lived in an abusive household, a very restricted environment. And she resented the fact that the men in her family had preferential treatment, that she was not equal to them, even if she was older. And as I said, she decided two years ago that she wanted to leave Islam, and she felt that

it put her at great threat. And also, I should say that there were things that were very important to her in her life. But one of the most important things, even before she decided to leave, was this group. They helped her cope with the repression. They helped her cope with the day-to-day challenges of living in that environment. So even before she had actually started planning leaving, this group was critical to her survival there. Is it like a, how would you describe it? Like a group of friends? Yes, a group of sisters. Like we're all sisters to each other, yeah. How did R get out?

R had, as I said, had been thinking about leaving for a very long time, but it only took her two weeks to plan her actual trip. And again, the group, which we're calling the defectors, which is actually a bit of a misnomer because not all of them have left, but still that's the name we chose for them. You know, they were crucial in helping her plan because she hadn't saved a lot of money. She'd been saving just for a short period and she needed a cheap flight

and she needed it at a time that was convenient where she could leave while her family was still sleeping and could get to the airport before they woke up and wondered what was going on with her. I told my mom I had an exam at 8 a.m. so I left I went to the university. In university girls only not boys there is a fingerprint thing where like you have to like your parents get a message if you put the like for you to go inside of the university. Proved that you were actually attending. Yeah so and she

checked in and but she didn't go into the university. And she went on to the airport. But yeah, the group was crucial for getting some of those details in place before she made the actual trip. People take freedom for granted all the time. Like people who do have it, yeah. And it shouldn't be because like a lot of people, like they're not they're not allowed to do a lot of things like they're not even allowed to like

go out the house to even like for the simplest things. Freedom meant a lot to me. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. So I'd sacrifice anything for it. Can we talk about just the dangers of fleeing in the first place? It's not an easy process. I mean, you and me, we can go tomorrow and book a flight and leave an hour later, two hours later, using our own credit cards, walking out and take a taxi on the street. It is nothing like that over there.

When we watched Rahaf's case, I think I gained some appreciation of just how challenging some of these situations are. But only when I spoke to some of these women did I really appreciate how nearly impossible it is to do what they did. And so there are dangers inside the country, i.e. if you're trying to do it without your family knowing, trying to get a passport in a country that requires your guardian to say you can have a passport, riding in a taxi alone when

women aren't allowed to travel alone. So those are just before you even get to the airport. Then you have to deal with the authorities in the airport, depending again on which country you're in. In the UAE, it's not as much of an issue, although it is sometimes for some women, depending on the day. But in Saudi, it is. Somebody might say, where's your permission to travel? Why are you traveling by yourself? And all on top of the fact that you're also taking this journey on your own. Some of these women are 18, Rahaf is 18, 20, some of whom have never traveled on their

own. I mean, very smart women, but women who have been protected and sheltered for many years, and so have not been able to travel. And sometimes when they get to where they're going, they end up in detention centers or in hostels. How do you navigate that environment? So when you look at the entire picture of what they've done, it's extraordinary. Incredible hurdles. And these are the women who have actually made it to countries where they can claim asylum. But is that the case with all of them? It's impossible to have a conversation with any young woman who thinks about leaving or has left without talking about Dina Ali Lasloom.

My name is Dina Ali and I'm a Saudi woman who fled Saudi Arabia to Australia. I'm a Saudi woman who fled Saudi Arabia to Australia. She's a Saudi citizen who decided to do something very similar to what Rahaf did, in fact, back in 2017 in April. And she got on a plane, she's from Saudi Arabia, and she was stopping in Manila and then going on to Australia to claim asylum. And what happened to her is that in Manila, her trip was intercepted. She was stopped and detained, her passport taken away. And this happens to have been recorded by a Canadian tourist, in fact, just so it turns out. Some of this on cell phone, and this woman actually lent Dina her cell phone. My family come, they will kill me. If I go back to Saudi Arabia, I will be dead. Please help me. I'm

recording this video to help me and know that I'm real and here. But ultimately what happened to this woman is that her uncles came all the way from Saudi Arabia and they dragged her onto a plane and took her back to Saudi Arabia. Till this day, Jamie, nobody knows what happened to her. And so that name is very present in the nightmares of every woman that thinks about leaving. She highlighted not just the dangers of the escape, but also the fact that if you do go out there and tell the world she did, she made a video without showing her face, it doesn't always work. And I would imagine there are also grave security concerns around this chat group too. Yes.

It's more common than you think, these groups. They exist widely, obviously, around the world and no less in the Middle East as well. So it's not like they are prohibited or not allowed, but it's a safe place for women or anyone to have discussions that they wouldn't be allowed to have publicly. And if, you know, on top of that, you're also helping women leave these situations, yes, it is dangerous, because it, I guess, ultimately, some people will see that it tarnishes not just the reputation of their families, but also that of their countries as well.

The women that you talked to who were able to reach their destinations, what do they say about what life is like for them? I mean, listen, there is no way to have that conversation or to ask that question without hearing all the great things about the arrival. I mean, these women all talk to me about feeling the freedom of being able to choose what to do when they want to do it without someone telling them what they can't do. That alone, they're still, especially the ones who have recently arrived, are still reveling in that. There was that moment for Rahaf on the airplane, I remember, where she took a picture of a glass of wine. And she received a lot of plaudits,

obviously, on social media, but vitriol as well. Absolutely. I remember she told our colleague, Susan Ormiston, that she didn't care, that this was about her wanting to live her life her own way.

Correct, yeah. I asked her about that first. Was it wine, not coke? She said, yes, it was wine. And I said, did it bother you what people said? She said, no. No, because I was expressing my happiness and I'm not a child. I could do what I want. And I think it takes a

long time for that feeling to go away. But what sets in after that is the reality of the fact that you're living in a brand new country. I mean, the great thing is that most of these women speak excellent English or depending where they're going, obviously, but they tend to aim to go to English countries or English speaking countries. So they're comfortable in that sense. But, you know, they're waiting for an asylum hearing. They don't have status in the country. Some of them may not know how to budget or how to shop of, you know, and how to do things properly where it comes to their health. You know, all these things that you learn by living on your own and not being sort of sheltered and taken care of 24-7. Plus the fact that you are essentially on your own.

It's a very solo existence for these women. And the biggest threat, of course, is that at the end of all of this, at the end of them trying to acclimatize, getting a hearing, all of that, they may still get rejected and get deported, unlike Rahaf, who now has some modicum of certainty about her future. I am one of the lucky ones. I know that there are unlucky women who disappeared after trying to escape or who could not do anything to change their reality. I understand that you spoke to a young woman who's actually here in Canada, who's part of this chat group, this network.

She's here in Canada now, and she's waiting for her asylum claim to be processed. That's right. Yeah, and she's been here since last June, in fact. Her name is, we're calling her Em. She's a graduate in sociology. She loves to sing. She uses a karaoke app and does a really mean version of Amy Winehouse's Back to Black. Oh, that's hard.

She has a beautiful voice. Beautiful voice. My tears dry, get on without my guy. I threw everything away. And it was very liberating to get out without any hijab or anything. because it makes you feel like I'm free. And she is extremely smart and really knows what she wants. And in her opinion, these were women who know what they want from life and want to go and get it. And they don't want people to stop them. So she escaped. And we actually

can't reveal a lot of the details of her departure because they might affect other people. But it was not an easy one. But she arrived last June and is still waiting for her asylum claim to be processed. It's a difficult existence because she's completely on her own. And I do, I want to pick up on the fact that you said that she's still waiting, because we all we know Rahaf's claim was processed very quickly. And I want to get into that with you in a minute. But first, I understand Canada is a preferred country for many of these women. And why is that? Yeah, well, it's not the weather. It's not the weather. And you know, the ones we've spoken to in Canada, I mean, that does come up pretty quickly, just as it did for Rahaf as well. You know, it's not difficult to imagine, but from what we heard from them is that obviously it's perceived as a very safe and friendly place towards refugee claimants.

You know, one woman said, I've seen what Canada did in the Syrian refugee cases. There's, of course, the fact that it is an English language country, so it's preferred just based on that. It's not the US and it's not Australia, which is super far. And it's relatively easy for them to get into. Now, having said that, I should say that the number one destination for people, at least from Saudi Arabia, is actually the United States, but number two is Canada. And, you know, it's interesting to Rahaf's case. She was granted asylum within a week, within days. And, you know, my understanding is that this isn't unprecedented. The UNHCR has a system to deal with these cases that they think

are an emergency, but that this also isn't typical. So do you think, you know, one question I've been struggling with since this case is that, you know, has it sent a dangerous message? There is no question, as you say, quite rightly, that this was a case that was resolved with lightning speed. Most asylum cases take months and months and months, if not years, to be resolved. And so does it send a dangerous message? I suppose if it does give some people the impression that it's that easy, then yes. But I think it sends a confusing message. And, you know, some people have insisted that is the case, that it is not a message that reflects reality. Because we, the women we spoke to, some of whom have been in Canada since April of last year or June of last year, and they are nowhere near even getting a hearing at all.

And so that reflects, that is more reflecting reality. And as a result, they're sort of living in this limbo, where they're worried that they could possibly be sent back. Exactly. Yes. Before I let you go today, another question that I've been wondering about is, you know, there has been a lot of attention on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia this year. You know, as we mentioned, it culminated with the death of Jamal Khashoggi. A startling and significant revelation today by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. He says Canada's intelligence agents have heard a recording of the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. There was also this very public spat between Canada and Saudi Arabia, ostensibly over a tweet that Chrystia

Freeland, our foreign minister, wrote demanding the release of women's rights advocates who have been arrested in the country. Saudi Arabia has announced it is freezing all new trade and investment with this country. Saudi Arabia being in the news the way that it has been in the news, a spotlight being shone on its human rights record. Does this make it less dangerous or more dangerous for these women? Does this make it less dangerous or more dangerous for these women? Well, if you keep in mind that it's really hard to imagine these trips and these escapes being any more dangerous than they are already, there has been a backlash towards these women, as you mentioned, about Rahaf and some of these others who are public about their presence in asylum countries. So they've been painted in a bad light. There have been horrific comments online. And they've been painted in a bad light. There've been horrific comments online,

and families have been sensitized. You have to imagine that families, I mean, they're reading about Rahaf and others in their newspapers in Saudi Arabia and UAE. So you can imagine that these are people who are, and the authorities also are concerned about reputations and the next Rahaf. And so... So they might be more vigilant, you know, if women are riding in a taxi by themselves or show up at an airport by themselves. Absolutely. I think that's a logical conclusion that the families or authorities might come to, that they have to now sort of be more vigilant about this stuff, because it does put the country and their traditions and their laws in a bad light. But what makes it most dangerous, what makes all of this more dangerous for women

is the fact that women have nowhere to go. Like they, you know, if they're abused, there are no shelters that they can trust to go to. They describe what's available as prisons. If they move to another city to get away from the situation they're in, they're liable to be caught by police and brought back to their families. So if you can't take it anymore, leaving is really the only option. So that's where the inherent danger is. And whether it's dangerous or not, they're going to do it. Nala, thank you so much.

You're welcome. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. If you're interested in learning more about the story, you can check out Nella's documentary on the Fifth Estate. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus.

Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone.

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