Front Burner - ‘The Storm’ never came, and QAnon believers are shook

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

QAnon believers are in turmoil. For years the baseless, wide-ranging conspiracy theory has gained steam, making serious inroads in Canada after exploding in the United States. QAnon believers think a blood-thirsty, child-trafficking cabal is running the world and that Donald Trump will bring justice through a day of reckoning known as “The Storm”. But now, following Joe Biden’s inauguration, many QAnon followers are devastated and disillusioned — while others are doubling-down. Today on Front Burner, Daily Beast politics reporter Will Sommer joins us to discuss what might happen to QAnon and its followers next.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. You know, I've been up until the minute that he said, I, Joe Biden. I'm watching him walk up. I'm thinking to myself, my life's about to completely change.

I was just kind of in shock. And I thought I had to reevaluate everything the way my life was going to be now. QAnon believers are in turmoil. For years, the wide-ranging conspiracy theory has gained steam, making serious inroads here in Canada after being birthed into the conspiratorial ecosystem in the United States. It's true believers think a bloodthirsty, child-trafficking cabal is running the world, and that Donald Trump would bring justice through a day of reckoning called the storm. Donald Trump would declare martial law. There would be military tribunals and mass executions of his enemies. Well, as the clock ticked down on his presidency,

QAnon followers waited in anticipation for Trump to bring this cabal crashing to the ground. That didn't happen. And now triggered by Joe Biden's inauguration, QAnon stands amidst the rubble of a collapsing set of beliefs. So what happens to QAnon and its followers next? Will Sommer is writing a book about the phenomenon. He's a politics reporter with The Daily Beast, and he's with me today to help explain.

I'm Jamie Poisson, and this is FrontBurner. Hi, Will. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So could you start today by painting me a picture of what QAnon believers thought Inauguration Day was actually going to look like? Sure. So QAnon believers have for several years now, they've been convinced that this kind of big moment is going to come called the storm, and Donald Trump is going to arrest all of his enemies and send them to Guantanamo Bay. And they've had different dates for this. But as it became clear that Trump was going to leave office, they were convinced that, you know, this had to be the moment on inauguration day where

Trump would kind of arrest all his foes and say, you know, I'm really going to be president for another four years. This was all a trap to catch them stealing the election. So they were really even within like an hour before Joe Biden took the took the oath. They were you know, they were kind of all prepped for what they thought was going to be Trump kind of stepping back from behind the curtain and announcing that he had won. This sounds so crazy, and I recognize how crazy this sounds, but I don't believe Joe Biden is going to be sworn in as president today. They've all told us that this thing has to go all the way through before Trump makes a move. So I think we're all sitting here waiting, waiting for something to happen. What specifically did they think was going to happen to Joe Biden?

They figured that Joe Biden basically would be arrested and probably imprisoned and probably face a military tribunal. You know, I mean, these are people who are convinced that Biden is part of this, this sinister cabal that kind of controls the world. And so they thought that this would be sort of the big moment that there would be kind of this very cathartic arrest of Biden. Right. And who did they think was going to do the arresting? I think the lead candidate was probably all of the National Guard troops who were in D.C. for the inauguration. I mean, they were saying, you know, there's no explanation for why all these soldiers could be here

unless they're just going to arrest everyone on the dais. Washington, D.C. was a foreign entity on our sovereign soil. They have just seized that by containing it with a fence. All those troops, all that military equipment, the way it's set up with all the fencing and the barbed wire, all for a virtual inauguration? So the question you have to ask is why? And I mean, obviously, the explanation was that a few weeks earlier, Trump fans had stormed the Capitol. You know, I think a lot of our listeners are probably somewhat familiar with QAnon by this

point. But I wonder if you can just quickly remind us a little bit more about why they thought that there was going to be mass arrests at Biden's inauguration. You mentioned earlier this sort of cabal. Sure. So QAnon is this really sprawling conspiracy theory, but you can sum it up in just a few sentences. It's based on these clues that were posted online by a figure named Q, and Trump supporters are convinced that this person is within the administration. And they kind of string together these clues to believe that there's this secret world where this kind of cabal of satanic,

cannibal pedophiles that runs the Democratic Party and international banking and Hollywood, that they kind of run the world. And that Donald Trump has been recruited by the military to run for president and take on this shadowy group. On the message board Reddit, people are coming here to post about family members

that they feel have been sucked into the QAnon conspiracy. She believes that Bill Gates created the COVID pandemic. That COVID-19 is bio-warfare that only affects pedophiles. And also created the upcoming vaccine. Bleeds is a cure-all. Which is going to contain microchips to track everybody. Wacky things such as Michelle Obama is really

a man. And people like Ellen and J-Lo are all Satanists. The pedophile rings. Interdimensional demonic pedophiles. And so all of QAnon is kind of coming to this moment called the storm in which they think, you know, Trump will

arrest all of his foes and that they'll, that Trump supporters themselves will receive this sort of vindication and all of these secrets will come tumbling out. And so that was what they anticipated would happen. And can you tell me a little bit more about the Q belief system more broadly? Sure. So Q is very, as you know, it's like a very religiously inflected group. A lot of evangelical Christians get really into it. And there's this idea that they're sort of doing real life battle with demons. And so that, you know, there's very religious aspect to it there. And then they just think more broadly, they think, you know, various politicians and celebrities are Satanists, essentially, and drinking children's blood and all this kind of crazy stuff.

Right. And, of course, this isn't just an online conspiracy where people talk about stuff online. It is also spilled into real life. The most recent real-world consequence being several Q believers have now been tied to the Capitol siege. And can you tell me a little bit more about how Q supporters fit into that now very infamous day? Sure. So QAnon believers really from all over the country went to Washington on January 6th, expecting to see the storm, this kind of big arrest moment. This was, they thought it would happen originally on the 6th, because they realized that, you know, if Congress counted the votes, then Biden would become president.

And so they had anticipated this big moment. We know, for example, Ashley Babbitt, who was shot by a police officer. She was a big QAnon person who thought the storm was happening. I grew up in Lakeside, man. In a video from 2018, she rails against politicians. What we do have is a massive amount of pissed off people like I am because you guys will not sit down and do your job. And one day before she was killed, she posted, Nothing will stop us. They can try and try and try, but the storm is here and it is descending upon D.C. in less than 24 hours.

Another QAnon believer was trampled to death. A lot of QAnon believers had, you know, had broken into the Capitol and were sort of convinced that they were there to witness the storm. Right. And I know that there have been many other examples of violence or threats of violence in the real world before this, like the kidnapping of children, correct? I know this is something that you've done quite a bit of work on yourself. And can you tell me a little bit about that? That's correct. QAnon believers, there's all these different factions. And one of them essentially preyed on women who had lost custody of their children by offering them these really

kind of ridiculous legal solutions and saying to them, well, you know, you didn't lose custody of your kids because maybe you're a bad mother or, you know, these other issues, but because your children are being kidnapped to be sexually abused by the cabal. Cynthia Abzug was arrested last week up in Montana on a charge of conspiracy to commit kidnapping. Investigators say a fellow QAnon believer, who she called a sniper, had come to live with her and that fellow QAnon members were planning this raid to kidnap the child. And so, you know, there's often sort of praise on these very vulnerable women who are already unstable.

And yes, they have inspired child kidnappings. They have helped these women become fugitives. Afterwards, there's this kind of nationwide network of criminal QAnon believers. So really, this is not something that's just confined to the internet. It's starting to have real-world effects. QAnon follower Apollos Sliman drove off with his five children against their will because he believed they were in danger of being abducted.

Donald Trump, I need a miracle or something. Somebody QAnon, help me. Donald Trump ain't gonna help you. QAnon, help me. Right, and just to note, you know, also here in Canada, it's had real-world effects too. An army reservist in the Canadian Rangers is accused here of ramming his truck through the gates at Rideau Hall,

where our Prime Minister resides. And he's now charged with gun possession. And it appears that he had posted sort of QAnon theories on Instagram. A post on an account for Hearn's business referred to Event 201, a pandemic preparedness exercise hosted before the global outbreak. Proof some say COVID-19 was planned. Documents obtained by CBC News suggest that he wanted the prime minister to be arrested. So this is something that crosses borders, hey?

Absolutely. Yes, as you mentioned, it has spread to Canada. There are strong QAnon factions in Germany, in the United Kingdom, even in Japan, all over the world. And each of these groups sort of adapts it to their own political situation, you know, whereas Canada, QAnon becomes very focused on Justin Trudeau, for example. And it's proven to be a very sort of durable format in that way. OK, so I want to go back to Inauguration Day, where I guess this sort of, I don't know, climax, Q believers thought was going to happen, the storm.

And of course, the storm didn't happen on January 6th and it didn't happen on Inauguration Day. Instead, Kamala Harris becomes vice president. I Kamala Devi Harris. Joe Biden becomes president. J-Lo sings This Land is Your Land. Lady Gaga and Garth Brooks were also there. And I know that you were online watching reactions to this all coming in real time. And what were you seeing people say?

How were people like initially reacting to what was happening on Inauguration Day? Sure. So in the lead up, really up into the last few minutes of Joe Biden being sworn in, they were convinced that he was still going to get arrested. You know, when Kamala Harris was sworn in, they started saying like, oh, geez, like, you know, they're really taking this down to the wire. Okay, time to do the arrests. And then, I mean, as Joe Biden was sworn in, there was this shock that set in.

The big motif I saw was people just feeling sick. They wanted to throw up. They felt like, you know, suddenly, it was like the world was spinning. They were just so surprised. Wow. it's so crazy to listen to you uh say that that you know right up until the wire um people thought that this was was going to happen you know one thing i wanted to ask you about too is i know you mentioned

this before there's this whole celebrity part of the q conspiracy theory and how were people also reacting to tom hanks fronting the inauguration evening special? I know this is a bit of a sidebar, but it also included appearances by John Legend and Chrissy Teigen. And I know she's sort of caught up in this too. And what do these celebrities represent for QAnon believers? Sure. Well, it was pretty funny how they selected the celebrities. I mean, because as you mentioned, so Tom Hanks, John Legend, Chrissy Teigen, and Lady Gaga are all just like in, you know, they think most people in Hollywood are these cannibal pedophiles, but those characters kind of loom especially large as, you know, people

they claim are involved in all these nefarious schemes some q anon followers believe that hanks's dual citizenship in greece is an attempt to escape child abuse charges pedophilia charges tom hanks actually received his honorary greek citizenship for his humanitarian work on behalf of greek wildfire victims in 2018 and so yes the reaction was, it was kind of like the cabal or the deep state is kind of thumbing their noses at us, that, you know, how much they won,

that now we have to watch Tom Hanks, you know, run the inauguration. Inauguration Day is about much more than the swearing in of our next national leaders. This day is about witnessing the permanence of our American ideal. There were some notable reactions to the inauguration from like bigger name QAnon followers, people who are influential in the QAnon world. I'm thinking in particular

of a man named Ron Watkins here. And before we get into how he reacted to all of this, can you tell me a bit about who he is and his significance? Sure. Ron Watkins is the, until recently, the administrator of 8kun, which is the anonymous forum where Q makes their posts. And he's the son of Jim Watkins, who owns 8kun. And between the two of them, they have been pretty credibly accused of being either behind QAnon or because they own the board. They definitely control QAnon in that way. And so these are guys who are very, very tightly linked to it. We spoke with the owner of 8chan about the internet phenomenon. No, I actually have no idea who runs the QAnon boards. And I don't know who QAnon is. And really, we run an anonymous website. And so in the aftermath of the inauguration, what did Ron Watkins say?

Sure. So Ron had, he had sort of remade himself in the aftermath of the election as this kind of just generally like a pro-Trump guy. The president had retweeted his various crazy claims about voting machines. And then at the end, he said, after the inauguration, he really kind of tried to distance himself from QAnon. I mean, he literally said, like, the real treasure of QAnon is the friends we made along the way, and sort of stay tuned for my next endeavor. So it was like, you know, these people have, you know, really devoted their lives to the various schemes he and his father have profited off of. And then he says, oh, gotta go. This was so crazy to me. I think I like literally spit water up my nose when I when I saw this, because this must have been so crushing for people. They've been looking to this guy for guidance for years now. And now he's just like, oh, never mind. Like, stay tuned for my podcast that's coming out. Yeah. I mean, it's really incredible. I mean, these are people who have, you know,

they've alienated their friends and family. You know, some of these people are going to go to prison now. And then he's just moving on to the next thing. I really had faith that this was going to turn in our favor. I don't understand why God would put President Trump in the White House to reveal all of the evilness that was in the world. And now we just have to live with it. Us patriots got played. I think Trump's a part of the deep state now. Who else is feeling just a little silly? And who the f**k is Q? I was just thinking, what if this person knows that none of this stuff is true and they're just messing with people?

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you

know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. One thing that I wanted to get your take on is, you know, whoever Q is, you know, I have been wondering, like, is there a reason beyond being completely separated from reality or the attention, I guess, that someone would want to perpetuate this charade? I don't know how 8kun works. I think people also might call it 8chan, right?

Is there a monetary incentive here for having kept this all going for as long as it did? Sure. So the people running Aidkun, they do have a monetary incentive in that having the QAnon posts and having people riled up keeps people on their website. That said, I don't know that it's necessarily like that they're being showered in riches right now. Meanwhile, of course, the QAnon promoters, the people who are not directly behind Q, but the people who are kind of like interpreting it, as it were, they are indeed, you know, making money selling merchandise, selling books, that kind of stuff. And we know there's a good amount of money involved in it.

You know, one of the first QAnon books reached basically the top of the Amazon bestseller chart. So people are certainly making money. Okay. Has Q said anything about, you know, the storm that came and went, right? Has Q explained any of this? I know QAnon followers look for clues, posts, Q drops, breadcrumbs. Has there been anything like this since the inauguration?

No, Q has stayed silent. And so that has left all these QAnon believers kind of scrambling for, to figure out what's next. Huh. And how have they been reacting to this? I wonder if we can talk about that for a little bit, now that they've had a little bit of time to let this sink in, that Trump didn't arrest everyone, that Biden is president.

Are you encountering anyone who's now lost faith, who thinks maybe they've been hoodwinked here? It's interesting i i certainly have talked to some people who in particularly after the just the last couple hours after the inauguration felt that oh you know we were fooled by q anon all this stuff president trump if you see this please save us please. I hope you have a plan. God, please save us. Save us from the devil, please.

Y'all are about to have a panic attack. But now what I'm seeing is people saying, well, maybe the QAnon plan to do the storm and arrest all these villains, that was too ambitious and the deep state kind of got one over on us. But everything Q taught us is real. And so they decide to sort of continue believing in QAnon and say, well, maybe the storm is going to happen in 10 years or in 2024. It is just too early now.

I wanted to see it happen on live TV. But then I got to thinking afterward because I was so pissed watching it all. It was just making me angry. Just because the inauguration went through doesn't necessarily mean it's over. Oh, so they're like essentially doubling down. Yes, exactly. So people are, they're moving the goalposts once again. I mean, this is something we see over and over in prophetic movements. When the prophecy fails, they say, well, we

misinterpreted the clues. And this is not a statement that, you know, I wasted the last couple of years of my life on this just really ridiculous thing. I know there are too many dots that have connected. There are too many things that have taken place. As it's been said, how many coincidences have to happen before something becomes mathematically impossible? Are there examples that like Q supporters are pointing to of the storm still coming? Sure. So they see, for example, you know, they say Donald Trump is he's gone to Florida to prepare for this coup. The reason our president is moving is because he can't rule a sovereign nation from a foreign land, which is where Washington, the White House is. Or something like that. Or some of the QAnon believers say, well, you know, Jesus rose in

three days. And so maybe we have to wait three days. Of course, that deadline has now passed as well. They're focused right now on March, some day in March for some reason. And so these dates kind of just keep being generated. What are they saying about this day in March? Well, they claim that that's when Trump is going to come back and really do the coup or do the storm and arrest all these people. Like I should say, the other thing is that they're they become very focused on this idea that the United States that Biden runs is like a fake corporation. I mean, there's all these weird legal theories States that Biden runs is like a fake corporation. I mean, there's all these weird legal theories and that really Trump is going to come back in March as the head of this kind of reborn American republic. So, you know, they're going to keep

iterating through this, I think, until no one really believes in QAnon anymore. It strikes me that to believe in the whole QAnon conspiracy theory, you have to basically move into this whole other reality, right? It's one that is really alienating to those who haven't bought into it. Like people have lost friends and family over this. We're working on a podcast on that right now. And what they believe, it is actually horrible, right? Like it must be very, very distressing to live in a world where you think that the mass rape and murder of children is being perpetrated by the people in charge of that world.

Do you believe that there is a satanic worshipping group of people who are trafficking children and drinking their blood. I would like not to believe that. And so I wonder what you think happens to these people now. It's a great question. I think, as you mentioned, these are people who have been convinced that really the worst possible things you could ever imagine are happening and the people are getting away with it with impunity. things you could ever imagine are happening and the people are getting away with it with impunity and so now they're they're basically facing the prospect of either acknowledging q anon was fake from the beginning or saying well i guess i have to like live in this nightmare world and so i i think unfortunately this is where this is a very um unstable moment for q anon believers you know

i have seen talk about people just being in really big depressions and that kind of stuff and talking about taking drastic actions, either, you know, violence against themselves or others. So I think it's, it's really a very disturbing moment. And where do you think QAnon goes from here? Because, like, it is also a bit of a big tent conspiracy theory. You know, you mentioned before, you know, here in Canada, a lot of the QAnon supporters sort of direct their ire at Justin Trudeau. And does that help it evolve? Or can you see QAnon kind of losing steam moving forward here? Sure. I mean, I think the genius of QAnon is that because it's vague enough, people can kind of take whatever they want out of it. And so you get kind of like

Instagram yoga people getting into it because they don't like vaccines, or you get people who watch Fox News getting into it because they love hearing about like spy stuff with the Russia investigation. And so I think QAnon really has an ability to keep going here, especially because people I think will continue to kind of fall down rabbit holes and find what they're looking for in their own lives in QAnon. I think certainly some people are probably going in QAnon. I think certainly some people are probably going to leave now, but I think the people who remain are going to be more intense. And I think the kind of conspiracy theories we see emerge from QAnon will continue to be with us, even if people aren't necessarily saying, using the Q branding anymore. But I think

a lot of these ideas will continue. Okay. All right. Will, Summers, thank you so much for this really fascinating conversation. Thanks for having me. All right, so some news before we go today. A 19-year-old who worked as a cleaner at a long-term care home in Delaware, Ontario, has died of COVID-19. Yassine Dabbe was a Syrian refugee who came to Canada in 2016 and worked at Middlesex Terrace. He leaves behind four siblings, according to Lebanese-Canadian businessman Mohamed Fakih. In other pandemic news, the first Canadian outbreak due to a coronavirus variant was confirmed at a long-term care facility in Barrie, Ontario. At least 84 staff and almost all of the 129 residents at Roberta Place have been infected with COVID-19.

This includes 32 people who have died as of Saturday. Officials have confirmed that the outbreak was caused by B.1.1.7, the variant first identified in the United Kingdom. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner and we'll talk to you tomorrow. And we'll talk to you tomorrow.