Front Burner - The unexpected rise of Quebec’s Conservative party

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

Quebec's Conservative party — unaffiliated with the federal Conservatives — had long been essentially a fringe party in the province, with no seats in the legislature, no invitations to major debates and little funding. But since former talk radio host Éric Duhaime took over last year, the party has become a contender in Quebec politics, at some points polling as high as nearly 20 per cent. A recent CBC News investigation found that of the first 54 candidates the party has announced, nearly 30 per cent have used their social media accounts during the pandemic to amplify medical misinformation, conspiracy theorists or to engage with far-right extremists. Today on Front Burner, CBC's Jonathan Montpetit joins guest host Jason D'Souza to talk about the Quebec Conservative party under Duhaime's leadership, the supporters the party is attracting and the impact the party could have on Quebec politics.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jason D'Souza in for Jamie Poisson. Since their founding in 2009, until just over a year ago, the Quebec Conservative Party had never held a seat in the Quebec legislature and has never been invited to a major debate. They were a fringe party, considered too libertarian by most voters,

and overshadowed by François Legault's small-c conservative Coalition Avenir Québec. But since coming under the leadership of former shock jock Éric Duhem last year, the party has become a contender in Québec politics. Monsieur Éric Duhem! The Québec Conservatives now hold a seat in the legislature and have recently polled as high as nearly 20%.

Investigative reporter and sometimes host of this show, Jonathan Montpetit, has been looking into the party's surge in support and found a fair bit of conspiratorial thinking. The virus that's planned to be able to control either countries or populations or whatever, we know that there's a great reset that's planned. There was never a pandemic. It's a criminal organization, 100% criminal. There was never a pandemic. There was the idea of a pandemic, but in reality, there is no pandemic. Those were just a few supporters Jonathan spoke to at Duhem rallies across the province.

So today, Jonathan's back to talk about how Éric Duhem has managed to rebrand the Quebec Conservatives and how the pandemic continues to impact our politics. Hi, Jonathan. Thanks so much for having me. Well, thank you for being here. So before he took over as the leader of the Quebec Conservatives, what was Éric Duhem best known for in the province? So Éric Duhem started his career as kind of a backroom advisor to conservative politicians. He worked for Stockwell Day when Stockwell Day was head of the Canadian Alliance. And then he worked for a short-lived conservative party here in Quebec called the Axon Démocratique du Québec. And then after that party kind of collapsed, he went into radio and he became a radio host for a very popular radio station around the Quebec City area called Radio X or Shwa FM. Shwa. Shwa 97.1. Radio X.

Radio X is one of these radio stations that are known in Quebec as Radio Poubelle or kind of like trash talk radio, intend to be very conservative, very libertarian, very populist. And that's really, I think, how most people in Quebec know Eric Duhem is as a radio host on Radio X. And so what kind of reputation did he have at that time? Well, so he was known as, I guess guess a libertarian yes a populist yes but also as somebody who really pushed the limits uh of what was acceptable to say on air i mean this kind of is the norm for all uh radio x personalities they all kind of push the norm do you have in particular was known for making uh comments that were racist about black people, xenophobic comments about Muslims.

And so one of the reasons why his name would continually come up in headlines is because he had said something else that angered somebody in society for really, again, like pushing the limits of what's acceptable. So before the Duhem era, how big of a player was this party within Quebec politics? It's hard to imagine a smaller player in Quebec politics. So this party was founded back in 2009. I'm just going to say off the top here that it's not affiliated with the federal Conservatives. And for the first decade of its existence, it barely registered more than 1% of the vote in provincial elections. It could not raise more than $60,000 in a year in donations, and in fact, usually raised quite a bit less than that. So the party kind of had a reputation in Quebec, I think more generally known as advocating a libertarian

brand of politics, which is really at odds with mainstream political opinion in Quebec, you know, across all the other parties. The Quebec Conservative Party was founded basically on the belief that you should have a minimal state, a free market to the max, and this kind of just jarred with how Quebecers understand the role of government. Fast forward to 2021, Duhamel takes over the leadership of the party. What changes? Almost from the outset, he was very vocal in opposing things like masks.

And he organized a big demonstration in Quebec City, kind of rallying all that anti-mask sentiment. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the crisis. For me, I voted for the Canada... And basically what he does as he takes over the party is that he tries to bring all all the that kind of anti-mandate movement into the quebec conservative party so uh so all these people who may oppose mandates for a variety of reasons including uh you know conspiracy theories he he basically invites them into the party by signaling to them that they're

welcome. He does this by, among other things, questioning the science. When I saw them depriving us from our basic rights without any scientific evidence, to this day, we still don't know why there was a curfew, for example. What was the scientific evidence? Why did they shut down restaurants like this one four times? Why were we the last ones to still wear masks in America? And that corresponds with a dramatic rise in popularity of the Quebec Conservatives. And so on top of those anti-mandate views, are there any other core foundations within the party's platform now? use or are there any other core foundations within the the party's platform now i mean i think like the the core things would be issues or policy positions that would be very familiar to anybody who follows libertarian politics so a bigger role for private sector and in health care it is pro car in a lot of ways you know not very very excited about taking steps to combat climate change.

It is pro-pipeline in Quebec, which, again, is something that pretty much every other party opposes. It wants to cut taxes. It wants to cut the gasoline tax. So generally, you know, policy positions that would be very familiar to a libertarian conservative, but not, again, a social conservative. So social conservatism is really unpopular in Quebec. It's even more unpopular than libertarian, brown and conservative movements. So Eric Duhem likes to lay claim to being the first openly gay politician in Quebec. You have to know that I'm the first openly gay leader of a conservative party in Canada,

provincially or federally. I'm not a social conservative personally. I do. And so, Jonathan, under his leadership, the party actually got their first seat in the legislature. How did that happen? It's an interesting story. And I think it's one that's integral to understanding why the party saw a sudden surge in its popularity. So the party has never elected anybody since the National Assembly.

And not long after Eric Duhamel took over the leadership of the party, he met with an MNA from the Coalition Avenue of Quebec. That's the governing party. And this MNA's name is Claire Samson. the governing party. And this MNA's name is Claire Samson. And she was not appointed to a cabinet position when the party won the last election. And she was very vocally unhappy about that. And she announced that she wasn't going to run again. She's not going to run in the fall election. And basically what Duhem did is he convinced her to join his party. I announce to you this morning that I will join the team of Eric Duhem and the Conservative Party of Quebec from the parliamentary entrance in September. He convinced her to sit as a member of the Quebec Conservative Party.

And what that did was it allowed Eric Duhem to hold news conferences inside the National Assembly, inside the provincial legislature. And so just from an aesthetic point of view, it suddenly seemed like the Quebec Conservative Party was a real legitimate party because there it was in the National Assembly holding news conferences in front of real journalists and was able to advocate its positions. And I was speaking with the former leader of the party who said this was just a dramatic change in its fortunes. You know, for years, Adrian Puglia, the former leader, had been, you know, struggling to get any kind of media coverage. And now suddenly with this M&A, they were able to to kind of address the media just like

every other party and interestingly when claire samson announced that she was joining the party at that first news conference she admitted she wasn't even that familiar with all of the party's positions what can you tell us about this new cast of characters then now running for this party? So it is an eclectic mix of individuals. I think the key figure for the party, it's kind of star recruit, is Anne Casabon. Anne Casabon is a relatively well-known actress in Quebec. A lot of people my generation would have seen her

on a popular kids TV show. Then she was in Unité Neuf, which was another popular show recently. But Anne Casablanca kind of ran afoul of many of the media about a year, year and a half ago when she openly declared that she was kind of anti-vaccine. And she began spreading a lot of disinformation on her social media accounts. And so she she kind of became a star recruit for the party. She ran in a by-election a few months ago and she will run again for the party this fall. And basically at every event that the party holds, Anne Casabon is front and center. She introduces the candidates. She introduces Eric Duhem. So she's kind of a key

figure for kind of attracting some notoriety for this party. And on that front, I know that you found that nearly a third of the 54 candidates who are in the running use their social media accounts to share conspiracy theories, misinformation or engage with extremists. Are there any other overt examples that stand out for you? There are quite a few. So basically what we did is we looked at, like you said, the first 54 candidates who had been announced up until about midpoint in July. And we researched all their personal social media accounts, and we found, you know, I think 16 of them had been spreading different kinds of misinformation. Another of the party's star candidates, Dr.

Kareem Al-Yubi, had been engaging with far-right extremists on Twitter. And in fact, in one exchange, he commented on a video. And in this video, there is a conspiracy theorist who, spouting racist commentary, advances a conspiracy theory that a consulting firm is somehow behind the pandemic. And this candidate wrote in the comments, hey, great, great video, great show. Others were indicating they liked other far-right conspiracy theorists. They were circulating articles linked to QAnon and just a lot of misinformation about COVID-19 and about the vaccine, such as exaggerating the side effects from the vaccines. We know the vaccines are extremely safe. The incidence of side effects are extremely rare,

very treatable. But on a lot of these candidate pages, they'd be exaggerating the danger of taking the vaccines and indicating that people shouldn't get the third dose, they shouldn't get a fourth dose and that kind of thing. Are many of those posts still up? So some of them are. Quite a few since last I checked had been taken down, had been cleaned up. When we reached out to the party for comment, basically what we did is we sent them a document with a summary of our research about all these candidates. And the party got back to us and said, you know, our candidates are free to post whatever they want on social media, as long as they're not promoting hate and as long as they're not inciting violence. And Jonathan, I understand you had a chance to speak to Duhem directly about this, no? Yeah, that's right.

So I guess a few weeks ago, I went to one of the events the party was holding and I sat down. It was it was in a kind of a restaurant. And immediately two or three people came up to me. I realized I was a journalist and they started recounting conspiracy theories to me, particularly in this case about the Ukraine war. That Zelensky wasn't, in fact, in Kiev and was a cocaine addict. And, you know, these are documented conspiracy theories, easily researched, easily debunked. then i had a chance to speak to eric to him not long after that and i sat down with him and i said i just had a conversation with uh three people who didn't believe the war in ukraine was real uh they didn't believe the pandemic was real um there is a perception that the party is attracting conspiracy theorists what

responsibility do you have as a leader to to guide yeah your followers towards more first thought well i by my speeches what i say i i never go there i never talk about those things the it's like mr legault and his response was one i don't personally espouse conspiracy theories. And two, my sole responsibility is to advocate the positions of the party and to make sure the party doesn't say anything stupid. My responsibility is to make sure that I tell the people what I believe in and to make sure that the party is not proposing any crazy things.. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization,

empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, We talked in the beginning about how the party is growing in popularity, but can you give us a sense of where they stand now, especially with an election coming in just a matter of months?

at least according to the most recent polls, is that the CAQ government is very popular, is polling somewhere between 40 and 45 percent, which puts it on track for a majority government. The kind of the next level of parties, the Liberals, the left wing, Quebec Solidaire, Parti Québécois and the Conservative Party are all kind of bunched up, polling somewhere between 10% and 18%. So the Quebec Conservatives are really kind of jockeying for that, you know, kind of who will be the runner-up in the election, who will form the official opposition. You know, there are a number of things, kind of obstacles in its way for kind of realizing that level of electoral success for the party.

Like its support is quite spread out, so it's very difficult to translate that kind of spread- level of electoral success for the party, like its support is quite spread out. So it's very difficult to translate that kind of spread out support into seats. But again, I think what's really striking for observers of Quebec politics is that this is a party that never polled, you know, higher than 4 or 5 percent, really, on average. And now suddenly, you know, some recent polls have them as high as 20%. The kind of latest poll had them knocked down again back to 13%. But even at 13%, these are historic highs for a party, and a party that has put forward candidates that

kind of are openly advocating conspiracy theories. What do we know then about who are the supporters that this version of the party has been able to draw in? So there was a very interesting study that came out about a month ago. It was put out by the UNESCO Chair of Prevention in Violent Extremism. These are basically university researchers who are affiliated with the University of Sherbrooke. And what they did is they took a poll of 2,000 Quebecers, and they asked people like a long series of questions. Do you believe outside forces control the government? Do you

believe in aliens? Do you believe the media is lying to you? And basically, asking those questions allows them to assign a score. And if you have a high enough score, they classify you as a conspiracy theorist. The other question that they asked in the poll is, what party do you support? And of the people who indicated they supported the Quebec Conservatives, 50% were also classified as either moderate or convinced adherents of conspiracy theory beliefs. as either moderate or convinced adherents of conspiracy theory beliefs. So I think it really reinforces how integral that is to the base of the support for the party. You know, people who have extreme levels of distrust in media, in government institutions, in science form the core of this party's supporters. I saw a big change after 9-1-1 actually where other events were just being

pushed down everybody's throat and I just got tired of it and I saw a lot of things that were outright not untrue and so I basically turned you guys off. Okay there's a lot of media outlets and it seems like they're all in this they're all in the same wavelength, all in the same tune. It's like a big corporation, you know? Their salaries come down, their governments pay. The main message that they put out is the message that it's the same everywhere.

Given that, do you have a sense of whether a number of these people were perhaps non-voters in the past because of that distrust that you mentioned in institutions? Or do we also have a sense of whether or not a number of these supporters are drawing the support away from other parties? So Eric Thuhem does an interesting thing at all his events. He asks the people in the room if they had voted for the CAQ in the last

election, and a lot of people raised their hands. And then he also raises his hand. When I go around and ask Quebec Conservative supporters their level of political engagement, a lot of them will say they kind of had passively voted for the CAQ last time, but now they are actively involved in the party. Now they are members of the Quebec Conservative Party. They are, you know, more diehard believers in the cause. And, you know, and a lot of them say this, you know, this is the first time I've been a member of a political party. This is the first time I go to a political rally. You know, this is the first time that, you know, I'm actively seeking to volunteer. And in some cases, you know, people saying,

this is the first time I'm going to actually run for office. In Quebec, where there's an election in October, what impact do you see this newly energized Conservative party having in your province? So I think a lot of political observers are wondering whether or not they'll be able to maintain this momentum. Like I mentioned earlier, the latest polls have shown a bit of a weakening in their support. One of the other things that the study done by the University of Sherbrooke researchers found is that conspiracy theorists tend not to vote. So that's not any good if that's the base of your support. I think, though, beyond how the

party actually performs in the election, I think what is important to kind of grasp is that they have changed the way politicians in Quebec can speak about the pandemic. They have kind of forced the government to exclude certain options. As Quebec was seeing a rise in infections earlier this summer, the government ruled out the idea of reinstituting mask mandates on things like the metro, the subway system. And I think that's partly as a result of a political space that had been carved out by the Quebec Conservative Party. And I think beyond how the party performs in the in the fall election, I think what is historic about this this moment in Quebec politics is that for the first time, at least in recent history,

conspiracy theorists will be on the ballot in large numbers. They will be soaking up media attention. And this could have profound effects on the institutions that make up the foundations of liberal democracy. So institutions like the media, the role of scientific expertise, public health, government, you know, all these things will be tested the more space that conspiracy theorists take up in public discourse. Jonathan, thank you for this. My pleasure, anytime. That's all for today. I'm Jason D'Souza and for Jamie Poisson, thanks for listening to FrontBurner.

We'll talk to you tomorrow.