Front Burner - The view from the U.S-Mexico border

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

The CBC’s Susan Ormiston takes us to the U.S-Mexico border where migrants are arriving in the hopes of easier entry under the Biden administration.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. It's almost like a de facto or a pop-up weigh station for migrants. And while we were there, we saw van after van belonging to the U.S. Border Customs and Border Protection. And out of these vans, dozens of migrants were released to the bus station. And here they'd get clothes and maybe some pizza, and they'd get a COVID test

from the city. The CBC's senior Washington correspondent, Susan Ormiston, just came back from a trip to the U.S.-Mexico border. The place that she's talking about right now is this bus shelter in Brownsville, Texas. And like so many border towns, people there are seeing this surge in migrants coming through. And there's been a lot of criticism pointed at the Biden administration for the way it's handled the situation. Earlier this week, Vice President Kamala Harris was appointed to take on this really tough portfolio. We'll talk more about the political implications later on because there are many.

Joe Biden fielded several questions about this issue at his first press conference as president yesterday. But first, Susan tells us what's actually happening on the ground. So we met a young mother, Irela Magia, who is from Honduras. She's 24 years old, and she traveled alone with her son, who turned five on Valentine's Day during we were watching and talking to his mom. And when I asked her about the journey, she started to cry and said she was very afraid. She'd spent her savings.

She had a job in Honduras, but the pandemic wiped that out. There'd been two hurricanes in November. She was vulnerable to crime in Honduras. That's a constant. And she decided to spend her savings and try to get to the United States to claim asylum. Why? For a better future for her son. And she was going to unite with her brother in Houston.

So here she was, you know, very emotional about the journey. But when I asked her, you know, do you know there's a new president? Her eyes lit up, smiling under her mask. She said, see, see. And I said, you know, did that influence? Is that one of the reasons you came? And she said, yes. She said, you know, her perception is that President Biden was more open to immigrants and that he would allow her possibly a chance to become legal in the United States. And that was a pretty consistent tone from a number of people we spoke to. Can you tell me a little bit more about what they said to you about how they see this being different than before? Well, you know, the border has been effectively closed in some ways. Why? Because of Trump's very restrictive policies and also because of the

pandemic. You know, they have been seeing this as an opportunity to try to claim asylum by getting into the United States, putting a foot on the soil, and then going through the legal process. They believe that there was less chance that they would be turned back. And it really actually told me that she didn't know until the moment she got on that van to come to the Brownsville bus station that she actually would be allowed to stay while she processed her claim as opposed to being turned back to Mexico. No matter what the president and his administration keep telling us, that it may not be because of him. And he mentioned that again in his first press conference. You know, I'd like to think that it was because

I'm a nice person, but it isn't. Well, look, I guess I should be flattered. People are coming because I'm the nice guy. That's the reason why it's happening. Truth of the matter is nothing has changed. As many people came, 28% increase in children to the border in my administration, 31% in the last year of 2019 before the pandemic in the Trump administration. This is part of a regular migration, although enhanced greater numbers now. These people certainly have the perception that it is a more open border now. I wonder if you could put this into context for me, you know, how do the numbers that we're seeing right now, this increase that everybody's been talking about in recent weeks, how does it compare

to, you know, any of the fluxes that we saw under the Trump administration, for example? Yeah, you know, Jamie, you and I talked a couple of years ago when I covered the caravans in Mexico back in 2018. Yes, I remember this very well. Yeah. And, you know, that time there were these masses of people moving up from Central America through Mexico walking to get to the border. And that was, you know, leading up to the height of border crossers in this fashion, which was in May of 2019. And that was about 132,000 apprehensions at the border then. So fast forward two years later, we saw an increase in February over, of about 28%. So nearly 100,000 crossers in February. And there's all signs that March will be high or perhaps even higher. In fact, Homeland Security says, you know,

they're sort of seeding the ground that this could be the highest numbers of border apprehensions in 20 years. So they know, looking forward, that there's a huge pent-up demand to try to get into the United States, and it is now arriving at the border. What's interesting is the makeup of these numbers is a bit different. Back in the caravan days, when you and I spoke, it was almost 75% families trying to make that crossing. Today, it's a large percentage of single adults who, if you believe the administration, are being turned back. There's about 20% families in this most recent surge, but we certainly saw a lot of them, and there's good reason to think that that number is going to increase as well. Do you have a sense of why it's less families and more single people this

time around? That's one of the pressing questions that need to be answered still. And also another question that isn't answered, and Biden was asked about this yesterday, is why are some families being allowed into the United States when you tell us that many other families are being turned back? And he did not answer that question. Right, right. Because Arayla, the young woman that you were just talking about, her son, were obviously accepted into the United States. Yes, Jamie. And the people that we saw in the days we were there, they were mostly families. You know, over 100 a day that we observed ourselves were being allowed to stay in the United States. Doesn't mean they're successful, but they'll stay in order to go through the process. states doesn't mean they're successful, but they'll stay in order to go through the process.

Susan, all these people who, as you just mentioned, are allowed to stay to go through the process, what would they have gone through before they got to Brownsville, before they got to that bus station? Well, they would have traveled by, I asked many of them, you know, bus, walking. They would have had to travel the southern Mexico border, which is a river as well. They probably would have had to pay human smugglers to get across there. There's huge cartels. In fact, we even saw evidence, Jamie, of wristbands that had been abandoned by the road on the U.S. side that migrants were wearing, identifying which cartel had helped them get across and whether they had paid or not. In one case, one said arrivals. So this is a organized situation here, which is preying on people who are desperate to get to the United States. And

certainly a problem for US Border Patrol and others trying to, you know, secure that border. All right. And then after they make this incredibly harrowing, difficult journey, and they're apprehended by the US authorities, what do we know about what happens to them then? Where do they stay? What do the facilities that they're being housed in look like? I know that there were a ton of questions about this at Joe Biden's first press conference on Thursday. Yeah, the real problem that the Biden administration has stumbled into is there are too many people under 18 arriving for them to take care of. So these are called unaccompanied minors. And they are as young as nine or 10 traveling alone, sent by their parents to get into the U.S., either to reunite with family here or as a way in for the rest of the family.

They are showing up on the U.S. side, and Border Patrol have to house them and deal with them. There's 500 a day by some accounts coming in, and there simply aren't the facilities to deal with them. So they're being housed in so-called detention areas, one in Donna, Texas, which the capacity is something like 1,500% overcapacity. It's crowded with thousands of young people, youth in there, lying on floors, covered with foil emergency blankets. There are too many and they've come too fast. And this is the huge sort of bulge in the pipeline that the Biden administration

did not anticipate. And a lot of people are saying, why didn't you? And now they're struggling to deal with it. At the same time, we should understand, you know, we hear a lot about minors and children, these big numbers coming across, which is true, but 70% of those are 16 and 17 year olds we learn today. So these are teenagers coming across alone, the majority of them. The Customs and Border Protection facility in Donna, Texas, I was there, is at 1,556% capacity right now with mostly unaccompanied minors. There are kids that are sleeping on floors.

They are packed into these pods. I've spoken to lawyers who say that some of these children have not seen the sun in days. Is what's happening inside acceptable to you? And when is this going to be fixed? That's a serious question, right? Is it acceptable to me? Come on. That's why I've been working from the moment this started to happen to try to find additional access for children to be able to safely, not just children, but particularly children, to be able to safely be housed while we follow through on the rest of what's happening. That is totally unacceptable. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to,

50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Okay, and so I want to talk a little bit more about the criticism

that the administration is facing around these overcredit facilities in a minute. But first, you know, like you mentioned, Biden, unlike Trump, is accepting unaccompanied minors in the U.S. And there is another key difference here. He's also overturned Trump's, quote, remain in Mexico policy. And I know that you witnessed this firsthand when you cross the border into Mexico. And can you tell me a bit about what this is about and about the town of Metamorris? Brownsville, Texas and Metamorris are like sister cities. They're right across the bridge from each

other. There's a lot of traffic between these two cities for work and other reasons. But under Trump, he decided in 2019 to refuse asylum seekers to get into the U.S. and stay there to process their claims. He said, no, you have to go back and stay in Mexico to do that. What happened? Thousands crowded up against that border. It was like a bulge at the border. And Matamoros had the biggest refugee camp along that border. Thousands were there. All of a sudden, just popped up tents. And they lived there for almost two years in tents. And there were facilities built and humanitarian agencies tried to ease their way. But this was

a desperate situation, people living temporarily in tents, in crowded conditions. When Biden came in as president, very soon after he was inaugurated, he said he revoked the remain in Mexico policy and said those who had existing asylum claims, like in that camp in Matamoros, would be allowed to come in bit by bit into the United States legitimately and pursue their asylum claims. So we went to that camp. It's emptied now. It's closed. For the most part, all of those people have been allowed to go into the United States. However, in other parts along that border, many are still waiting for that same opportunity. So, you know, Biden has opened an opportunity for those asylum seekers who've been waiting in limbo for almost two years, some of them, to get going with their asylum claims. And that's a big difference. But of course, on the other side, the critics are saying, you created this problem, you created this surge in numbers, and now you're ill-prepared to handle it. Susan, I know we're talking a lot about the people who are being processed by the U.S., the surge of people who have been allowed to come into the country, but aren't there still people

who can't, who can't get in? Yes. And the reality that the Biden administration, I'm sure, are worried about is how big is the bulge? How big is the bulge, the demand that's coming to the border? And then there are those who've been at that border, who've not been yet allowed to come in. For instance, in Nuevo Laredo, not been yet allowed to come in. For instance, in Nuevo Laredo, which is across the bridge from Laredo, Texas, another border town, we went to a shelter run by a Catholic charity and we met a woman, Dalila, and her husband, Edgardo, from El Salvador. They had arrived in December of 2019 with their two children. They got into the U.S. and under Trump's policy were turned back to, quote, remain in Mexico. They've been in that shelter ever since.

This is, they're 33, the parents, each of them a teacher and a public servant. They've got school-aged children. She was definitely very upset about the limbo that her life is in. They believe they cannot go back to El Salvador. They say they basically upped and left in days because of gang violence there. Dalila, where are you from, and we heard about the crime situation in El Salvador because of the gangs. They ran away, they're Salvadorans, and they ran away from the gangs that were there. And now they've been stuck and in limbo in this Mexican border town,

neither going back nor forward, and they're hoping that their case will be smiled upon and they will be able to enter. Let's move on to the politics of all of this, because there's a lot of it. The Republicans, of course, through political ads and conservative media coverage, have called what's happening at the U.S.-Mexico border the, quote, Biden border crisis. It is an absolute crisis and disaster. No state has impacted more than my own state. The Biden administration is releasing illegal immigrants into Texas, is setting up detention facilities. But I know that Biden is also receiving a lot of criticism within his own party.

And can you tell me a little bit more about that? also receiving a lot of criticism within his own party. And can you tell me a little bit more about that? You know, we've heard Democrats in Texas say, look, anybody who knows this situation could have predicted that this would happen. Why? Because the pandemic is starting to ease up, or there's a huge backlog of people that are fleeing the economic repercussions of the pandemic in their countries in Central America. There have been climate crises in Honduras, for example, back-to-back hurricanes in November. Poverty and violence is ongoing. Anybody could have predicted that there would be more numbers coming to the border, and there have been ever since April of last year. So why wasn't

there more preparation for unaccompanied minors, for example? And one of the reasons that that particular subset is so volatile is obviously they're young, they also because, you know, Democrats savaged Republicans and Trump's policy for putting kids in cages and for separating kids from their parents during the Trump administration, saying, you know, you're locking up kids, you're tearing them out of the arms of their parents, and this is inhumane. And here we have, you know, a real surge of unaccompanied minors into the United States, and they're in overcrowded conditions. The Biden administration is scrambling to set up new facilities for them to make sure that they don't stay longer than the 72 hours required by law. In fact, some of them are there days and days and definitely overcrowded. So even Democrats are wondering why this had almost catapulted into the Biden administration without seemingly enough preparation. So they're trying to

fix that situation as fast as they can. The other problem, Jamie, is the messaging. You know, the Homeland Security Secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, started out by saying, don't come now to asylum seekers, which begged the question, why come at all? You know, is the American border at the South open or closed? Mayorkas is saying the border is closed. Martha, good morning. The message is quite clear. Do not come.

The border is closed. The border is secure. We are expelling families. We are expelling single adults under the CDC's authority, under Title 42 of the United States Code, because we are in the midst of a pandemic, and that is a public health imperative. We are encouraging children not to come. Now is not the time to come.

Do not come. The journey is dangerous. We are building safe, orderly... Yet their families, obviously, all over the news, getting in. So there's mixed messaging there, both to the migrants and to the Americans, about what actually is going on in the border. So they've been faced with criticism over mixing up their message and sending messages two ways. mixing up their message and sending messages two ways. I guess the third thing is that, you know, in the beginning, a month or so ago, when these numbers came out in February, and it was clear that there was a new surge starting, the Biden administration was saying, you know, we've told

them not to come. Well, I know from my reporting across the world on migrants, you know, if you're desperate, and you see an opportunity, that falls on deaf ears. You know, they have to do a much better job in Central America and in Mexico to say, you're better off staying in your country and applying for asylum there than making this dangerous trek to the border. And they have not successfully done that. They're trying to now. They're doing a social campaign. They're sending a delegation to Central America.

You know, we saw some of this same strategy by the Trudeau government when we were seeing numbers increasing on the New York-Quebec border from Haitians, for example. They sent delegations down there to try to get the message across that this was not an open border. You would not be allowed in just willy-nilly. But it's a difficult thing to undo. Okay. Really difficult situation there and lots for us to keep an eye on. So thank you so much for this, Susan. And hopefully we can talk to you about it again really soon. Thank you so much for this conversation. You're welcome. All right, so before we go today, some news on a story that we have covered a ton on this show. The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that the federal government's carbon tax is constitutional. This will allow the Liberals to push ahead on a plan to make sure every province and territory puts a price on carbon to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Provinces like Ontario,

Saskatchewan, and Alberta have fiercely opposed the tax, arguing that natural resources are a provincial jurisdiction. Conservative leader Aaron O'Toole reacted to the news on Thursday. In a statement, he said that he would scrap the tax because it, quote, threatens hundreds of thousands of jobs and puts Canada at a competitive disadvantage in the world. All right, that is all for this week. FrontBurner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced this week by Elaine Chao,

Ebby and Abda Gear, Shannon Higgins, Sarah Jackson, and Simi Bassi. Our sound design was by Austin Pomeroy and Mackenzie Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Chabison of Boombox Sound, who actually just had a baby. A huge, huge congratulations to you, Joseph and Kate, from our entire team here at FrontBurner.

The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McCabe-Locos. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you on Monday.