Front Burner - The view from Ukraine as Russia invades

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

Early Thursday morning, Russia launched a broad-scale invasion of Ukraine, attacking the country from three sides and targeting major urban centres. Today, we hear from two people on the ground there. First, we’ll speak to freelance journalist Olga Tokariuk, sheltering in an undisclosed location. And then BBC Chief International Correspondent Lyse Doucet describes how the first hours of the invasion unfolded in the capital of Kyiv, and what may happen next.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Jamie Poisson. On Thursday morning at 5.07 a.m. Ukraine time, the missile strikes began.

Russian President Vladimir Putin had just announced that his armed forces would, quote, conduct a special military operation. forces would, quote, conduct a special military operation. Its target, a European country, a democracy, home to 44 million people, a place where millions live in cities like Kyiv, Kharkiv and Odessa. The people of Kharkiv now live a new reality. Their city under siege by an enemy unseen. I tell you what, I just heard a big bang right here behind me. I thought we shouldn't have done the live shot here. There are big explosions taking place in Kiev right now. Missile strikes were just the beginning. Russia also unleashed planes, helicopters, tanks and long-range artillery.

The attacks came from the north, from the east and from the south. By dawn, air raid sirens were sounding in Kiev, the capital. And many people outside the country would soon wake up to a much different world. outside the country would soon wake up to a much different world. These are among the darkest hour for Europe since the end of World War II. As the day unfolded, so did the destruction. Crews and ballistic missiles hammered Kiev's main airport. Dozens of military facilities across the country were reportedly wiped out. The airstrikes and missiles also rained down on civilian areas, including major cities. At a hospital in Donetsk, at least four people were killed by Russian shelling. Ukrainian officials also said that Russia had

captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant and that the Chernobyl area near Kiev was under control of Russian troops. I'm recording this at just after 5 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday. At this point, at least 57 Ukrainians, both civilians and military, have died, according to the Ukrainian government. Ukraine also says it has killed 50 Russian troops. The Ukrainian military is outgunned, but it fought back, saying it had shot down several Russian planes, helicopters and tanks. Western leaders condemned the invasion. Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war and now he and his country will bear the consequences. Make no mistake, Russia's attack on Ukraine is also an attack on democracy, on international law, on human rights, and on freedom. History will judge President Putin as harshly as the world condemns him today. Today, he cements his place in the ranks of the reviled European dictators

who caused such carnage in the 20th century. But at this point, a larger military conflict involving NATO members like the United States and Canada is not on the table. Instead, Russia's economy has been the target. is not on the table. Instead, Russia's economy has been the target. The U.S. Treasury has said sanctions would impact 80% of all banking assets in Russia. Canada, the U.K., and the EU have also announced sanctions, but many countries are facing criticism for not making them tougher. Today, I'm speaking to two people on the ground in Ukraine about what's been happening since the invasion began and what could unfold next.

In a few minutes, we'll be hearing from BBC's chief international correspondent, Lise Deset. But first, I'm speaking to Olga Tukuryuk. She's a Ukrainian freelance journalist and a non-resident fellow at the Centre for European Policy Analysis. policy analysis. Hi, Olga. Thank you so much for this. Thank you so much for making the time. Hello. So, Olga, where are you right now? I'm in Ukraine right now in a safe location, which I don't want to disclose because of security reasons. I totally understand if you can't, but are you able to disclose the city that you're in? No, sorry. I can't disclose even like the part of Ukraine I'm in because the situation is so fluid and I'm worried for the safety of me and my family. Yeah. I'm so sorry that you're going

through this right now. Yes. It's unnecessary precautions. You and I are speaking just before 6 p.m. Thursday, your time, and just before 11 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. And without giving too much information that would identify your location, I wonder if you could describe what you are seeing and hearing right now. Yes. Well, the location I'm in hasn't been affected by Russian military action yet, and I hope it won't. But what I see here on the ground, the people are trying, you know, to get cash from the ATMs. They're accused of the ATMs and also the supermarkets and gas stations because people are afraid that there might be some shortages of supply in the next days. At the same time, the vast territory of Ukraine has been covered already by Russian military action. Russian airstrikes have targeted different parts of Ukraine, so it's not just eastern Ukraine anymore. It's also central, southern, northern, and western Ukraine. So,

basically, all of Ukraine is under a Russian invasion. This is a full-scale invasion. People are trying to flee to safety. There were queues in Kiev, in the capital, of people trying to leave the city, long traffic lines and the exits towards the western part of the country and towards European countries, the Western Europe. So this is what is happening. Russia is targeting not just military objects in Ukrainian territory, it's also targeting civilian targets. Hospitals were bombed, civilians were killed there. We also received reports that children were killed in Kherson region of Ukraine. What is happening is really a tragic,

horrifying war, unprovoked aggression by Russia on Ukraine, just because Ukrainians wanted their country to be free and independent and aligned with the West. It's not a crisis, it's war, it's disgusting. And it feels like, so my family stays in Lviv, and I feel like I don't know when I will see them. I don't know if any of them will die, or my friends will die, or anything like that. Like, if there will be a bombing of civilian buildings or not. Like, do they close the borders? Just unknown, unknown unknown that's what

scares me the most Olga can I ask you this this invasion by the Russian military right now was this your worst fear well of course you know I think no one ever like in in the worst nightmares uh you can imagine living in a country at war ukraine has been living at war since 2014 when russia first invaded but the war has been limited to tiny parts in eastern ukraine now it's on all ukraine's territory this is a huge country 40 million people live here you know our children they woke up today in the morning from the sound of explosions of Russian airstrikes. And they ask questions like, mommy, why? What is happening? Is this war? Are Russians here to kill us?

You know, this is something that is heartbreaking to hear as a parent. Why do our children have to experience this? Why do they have to ask these questions? Why should we, instead of, you know, thinking about the future and the bright future for our kids, are now worried with protecting their lives and saving them from a murderous dictator in the Kremlin? Like many here, Natalia is trying to comprehend what has befallen Ukraine, trying to work out how to protect her two-year-old Karina. We're shocked. We're totally shocked. We are afraid for our children, for our families.

Are you thinking about trying to move? I don't know. I just don't know. Where can I go? We don't know where to go. Who will have us? Nobody, nowhere is waiting for us. You hear that there's a real sense of shock in cities like Kyiv right now that they did not think that this would happen,

that the Russians would not launch such a broad and massive invasion of the country. Would you agree with that? Yes, I would agree with that. I think most people didn't believe that Russia would really launch such a huge scale invasion that they would stop at nothing, you know, at killing military personnel, but also civilians, killing children. And that's what they are doing. So, of course, there is a sense of shock and people are trying to cope with the situation and somehow to react, to flee or to shelter in safe location. Think about how can they protect their loved ones and their children at this moment.

And I think what is very important is also the Western reaction now. We know the situation is very fluid. It's changing very fast. Kyiv is being surrounded as we speak. It's a city of three, four million people. If it falls, it could be catastrophic. Now the fights are also ranging close to Chernobyl nuclear power plant. President Zelensky has tweeted within the last hour that Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl nuclear power plant. That is the

radioactive waste disposal area and says that our defenders, their defenders are giving their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated. That's, of course, when the plant melted down. He's reported this to the Swedish prime minister. It might trigger, you know, an ecological environmental catastrophe if a nuclear power plant is affected.

So I think the West should react really now. There is no time to waste. All possible means should be on the table to stop Putin's oppression, starting from sanctions and going on with imposition of a no-fly zone over Ukraine, providing more assistance to Ukraine, military assistance, financial assistance, also humanitarian assistance, because what might unfold in the next days, it could be a huge humanitarian catastrophe with millions of Ukrainian refugees, you know, trying to find safety in the European Union countries.

And I wonder if you could tell me, related to that, what your biggest fears are here around how this develops in the coming days, days and weeks? Well, I think the biggest fear is a loss of life. Ukraine has been doing remarkable progress in the recent years, despite Russian aggression in 2014. You know, the Ukrainian civil society is strong with a lot of activists, with a lot of NGOs, with free media, with vibrant cultural scene. Ukraine has strengthened its military and, you know, hundreds of thousands of brave Ukrainian soldiers in their prime age are now defending our country and their lives could be terminated

from one moment to another. And that's, I think, the most horrifying prospect of losing all these great people, of losing thousands and potentially millions of lives due to the actions of Russian dictator Putin. Basically, he's trying to, I don't know, wipe Ukraine from the face of the earth. So it's something, it's even hard to express it with words, what is happening, you know,

and I'm also trying somehow to come to terms with the situation, but it's very difficult. It seems so surreal. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections.

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Olga, I'm so sorry that you and your family are going through this right now. I wonder if I could ask you a final question, which you do not have to answer if you don't feel comfortable, but you said that you were sheltering right now on a disclosed location with your family. Do you have children? Yes. Could I ask you what you're saying to them right now? Well, at this moment, my child is with my other relatives

because I'm trying as a journalist to speak to as many media, international media as I can. But of course, like in the morning, I told my child that Russia invaded Ukraine, that we are doing our best to defend our country, that we have strong soldiers and strong army who are protecting Ukraine. soldiers and strong army who are protecting Ukraine, but that Mami as a journalist also has to do her part to protect Ukraine, to defend it by spreading the word, by talking with the international media about what is happening here. So I think every Ukrainian now is thinking like, what can we do in each of our capacity to defend Ukraine? Because we have so much to lose. We have a beautiful country. We have wonderful people. We have children.

And it's just so painful what is happening. Olga, I hope you stay safe. And please stay in touch with us. You're doing really important work. So I thank you for that. Yes, thank you. All right, now I'm speaking to the BBC's chief international correspondent, Lise Doucette.

She's in Kyiv. It's a moment of history, a very dark history that is unfolding in Ukraine. And it is at once a moment which matters not just to the capital Kiev, where I am now, but around the world. A moment which the Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, said of a war of a type and a scale that we thought belonged to history. But it's not. It's taking place in 2022, a war of our time. And what is the scene like in the capital, Kiev, where you are right now? What's happening on the ground? When I woke up, as all of us were woken up by these explosions in the morning,

when we heard first the explosions here in Kiev, which were like, first of all, like distant claps of thunder, then rolling thunder. Then just before 7 a.m. in the morning, when we heard the emergency sirens sounding off, I looked out the window. And there they were, the yellow buses running on time, just hurrying to work. The sirens have just started here in the capital Kiev. The invasion, the attack that Russia promised would never happen, has now started. But then, with every hour, came the reports of queues forming at supermarkets, at petrol stations, at the ATMs, people going into the metro where public transport is now free, carrying small suitcases,

perhaps not knowing how the rest of the day would turn out. As the day went on, more and more people started leaving this city, started leaving other cities. The roads out of Kiev were jammed with cars going somewhere, we don't know where, trying to take their families, many of them, to somewhere safer. And a growing sense that this was a totally new and dangerous chapter in this long-running conflict between Ukraine and its neighbor Russia.

I heard it clearly. The earth was really shaking. So we got up and now we are waiting for fuel. We will buy some so we can be mobile in case all communications are cut. We have to prepare. What else can we do? We were just talking to another Ukrainian journalist, Olga Tokaryuk, and she talked about the sense of shock she has over how massive and widespread this invasion is. And I wonder if you share that shock.

We've heard President Zelensky of Ukraine calling for calm, warning Western leaders who spoke of an imminent invasion by Russia that in talking so much about escalation, they could bring about this escalation. And everyone we met here in the capital Kiev, the people we spoke to elsewhere in the country, they kept telling us, this war is not new for us. We've been living with this war. We've been living with Russia in our lives for the last eight years. Ever since Russia first occupied, annexed Crimea, its forces moved into the Donbass in eastern Ukraine. And when we'd asked, are you worried? They'd shrug to say, well, we're getting on with our lives, preparing for the worst, but hoping against hope that this invasion wouldn't happen. How could it happen in this time in which we're living? And then last night, past midnight, there was a distinct change in mood that people were beginning to think it could happen. Mm-hmm. I see that President Zelensky, Ukrainian President Zelensky,

is offering guns to any citizen who wants that. We have weapons to protect ourselves, to protect our lands, and we are ready to give weapons to all those who declare themselves ready to protect our land. I wonder what kind of fight will the Ukrainians be able to mount here? What a fight it is to take on the might of the Russian military, to take on the attacks which are coming from the land, the sea and the air. It's generally believed that the Ukrainian military is in much better shape now than it was in 2014, where Russia could basically come in without much of a fight. We've seen here day in, day out,

what's described as defensive weaponry coming to help the Ukrainian forces, arms and ammunition coming from Western countries from around the world, including from Canada. We also know that the reserves have been called up. They're said to be something like 200,000 reserves. Initially, there was nearly 40,000 who were called up. At that point, when they were called up yesterday, it wasn't a general mobilization. And then suddenly, at the same time that martial law was imposed, President Zelensky said, anyone who has some battle experience, anyone who wants to volunteer, we will provide you with weapons. We'd already seen that the gun shops were doing brisker business, that people were going in.

It's a licensed, you can't just go in and buy. You have to get a license. But now more weapons are being made available because this is a fight, a fight of a nation against a neighboring nation. And Ukraine knows that for all of the words and the ammunition and the weapons and the statements and the sanctions

which are being imposed against Russia that are coming from outside, when it comes to fighting, the Russian army taking on the Russian Navy, seeing the Russian warplanes in the skies, it's Ukrainians and Ukrainians alone who will be doing this fight. We're talking at 8 p.m. your time. It's about 1 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. We're about 15 hours into this

war now. And what do you think Putin's plan is here? His forces began coming from the south, from the Black Sea, coming from the east into the areas of eastern Ukraine, where he'd already recognized Donetsk and Luhansk, coming from Belarus to the north. And we've seen a steady advance, fighting, explosions in all of these directions. As incredible as it is to imagine, his forces seem to be heading towards Kiev. There was a major assault on the Antonov airfield, which is about an hour and a half drive from Kiev. It's the major cargo airport for Ukraine. We heard earlier from the Ukrainian authorities that they were fighting back against Russian paratroopers

who had gone into that airfield. And we understand it's largely under Russian control now. And we are here at the Antonov Airport, which is about 25 kilometers, 15 miles or so out of the center. These troops you can see over here. Stand up, Lewis. These troops you can see over here, they are Russian airborne forces. They have taken this airport. They've allowed us to come in and be with them as they defend the perimeter of this air base here. We've heard about further

north, closer to the Belarusian border. And the Belarusian border is only about 90 kilometers from Kiev but the Chernobyl power plant has now also been taken over by the Russians so the general sense is that they will try to move towards the capital Kiev. President Putin spoke about the military infrastructure. Today was a day of targeting military infrastructure, including the airfields. And there just seems to be no doubt that that will continue tomorrow. If he did manage to occupy the entire country, what do you think would happen? Because this is a country that has so much anti-Russian sentiment, a capital like Kyiv. Yes, I hear in your question the disbelief. How can he occupy this massive landmass at a time like this where he knows his he has intelligence he knows that in the those two statelets in eastern

Ukraine he does have people who are loyal to Russia he does have people who have now carry Russian passports even though the past some of them got passports just in the past few years but the capital Kiev and many other major cities is a totally, totally different situation. And I think it is fair to say that since 2014 and the first Russian invasion, all of the opinion polls have shown that the population has become more and more desirous of joining the NATO military alliance. Almost everyone I've met here talks about speaking Ukrainian now and not speaking Russian. If he does try, and this is what we expect, to occupy all of Ukraine, he will face not just military forces of the Ukrainian army,

the reservists, the volunteers with the guns, but the popular uprising. That's why we hear reports that there will be an attempt to establish a puppet regime. I mean, this is a nightmare scenario. We are in uncharted waters. This is something that none of us, most of all the Ukrainians, would have expected to happen in our time. Even though we've been hearing from President Joe Biden, from some other Western leaders who've had their eyes on the intelligence, that this is what President Putin was planning to do. And I say President Putin, not to personalize it, but because there is a growing realization that a lot of this

decision-making, a lot of this plan comes from the president himself. Lise, thank you. Thank you very much for this. Thank you. Thank you for being interested in it. All right, so before we go today, I want you to hear a bit of what is on our sister show, Nothing is Foreign. It's a weekly international news program that brings you the on-the-ground perspective, wherever the story is unfolding. Tamara Kandaker is the host, and here she is speaking to a security expert and Ukrainian who had taken shelter in the basement of his home in Kiev. Did you have any plans for in case something like this happened? I did have. I did have. But, you know, usually when it happens, all the plans crashes.

And yeah, I had this, you know, this backpack. I had plans. I had a walkie-talkie and so on. But when it happened, it looks like I wasn't prepared. Like I said, I had to buy today goods in the shops, food, water only today. But I think you cannot be prepared for this. I mean, not just physically, but morally as well as psychologically. Because it's really hard to be prepared for this. but morally as well psychologically, because it's really hard to be prepared for this. Though I think I am quite resilient, but it's hard when you are thinking about what's going to happen next,

next moment, next minute and next hour and next day. You can subscribe to Nothing is Foreign wherever you get the show. That's all for this week. Front Burner comes to you from CBC News and CBC Podcasts. Our producers are Simi Bassi, Imogen Burchard, Ali Janes, That's all for this week. and I'm Jamie Poisson. We'll talk to you on Monday.