Front Burner - Three views on Maxime Bernier

Episode Date: January 14, 2019

Maxime Bernier says the People's Party of Canada will be on the ballot across the country in the upcoming federal election. But for a lot of people, the new fiscally-conservative libertarian party is still a big mystery. To find out more, we went to one of his political rallies and spoke to three Canadians who showed up to hear the former cabinet minister speak.

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about hidden disabilities. Short Sighted, from CBC's Personally, available now. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Back in November, here in Toronto, I went to this political rally. It was in support of Maxime Bernier and the People's Party of Canada. Bernier says his new party will be a competitive force in the upcoming federal election. And just before Christmas, he took a major step towards that goal by setting up the necessary 338 riding associations across the

country. So what's the People's Party about? In a nutshell, Bernier is a fiscally conservative libertarian. He's a small government guy. And his ideas about immigration, well, they're controversial. He accuses the prime minister of pursuing an agenda of, quote, radical multiculturalism. It's all about diversity, diversity, diversity. Yes, it's okay. We are a diverse country, and that's good for this country. But why not celebrate what unites us? So when I heard that this rally was going to take place, I was really curious. Who would be there? What is it about Bernier that they like?

And do they have any concerns about his more controversial messages? Today you'll hear from three people who went to the rally to hear Bernier speak. I don't have a home in Canadian politics right now. This is FrontBurner. Before we go any further, I want to make something clear. You're only going to hear from three people today. They don't represent everyone who attended the rally, or even Bernier supporters across the board. I say this because in the two hours my producer and I spent talking to people,

we did have some conversations that we wouldn't broadcast. There were a couple of conversations that flirted with racism and political conspiracies. Bernier, for his part, has said that there's no room for racists in his party. The three people you're going to hear from, well, they were thoughtful and eager to talk about the issues that mattered to them. Oh, and it was really noisy in the room and packed. So over the last several weeks, we got back in touch with them so we could actually talk. Okay, let's get to it. First up, Dave McCullough.

Both the liberals especially, but also the NDP to a certain extent. And in the last couple of years, falling into the rabbit hole of identity politics, I just cannot follow them there. He's 49 years old. His company does monitoring for the mining and oil and gas industry. Goatee glasses, a blue polo shirt with a yellow Bitcoin logo on the breast.

Dave's main issue is fiscal responsibility and government handouts. It is basically a message, you know, going back to more old-fashioned values. You work hard and, you know, you get an opportunity to make a decent living. You know, combine that with his proposals for taxes. If we can create a environment where we're all paying less taxes, where business is able to thrive better, rather than the way our tax system is set up now, where we've got both on the corporate and on the personal side, where you've got exemptions for every niche project. Well, why don't we just get rid of most of the exemptions and lower the rate for everyone across the board? There are some jobs that I've lost to a Canadian competitor

that gets a ton of governmental support. And on the personal side, I actually have not personally taken a raise in about six years because I want to keep the business going. One thing I couldn't figure out about Bernier was why he was so gung-ho on this issue of supply management. You know, like limiting the supply of eggs or milk to ensure stable, and critics would argue, more expensive prices. It seemed like such a wonky thing to make a centerpiece of your platform. We won't work for special interest groups like the Liberals and the Conservatives are doing right now,

trying to keep a privilege for 19,000 farmers. But after talking to Dave and others, it became more clear to me. This doesn't play as an agricultural policy issue. But for them, it's seen as an example of the government sticking its hands in your pocket to benefit specific industries. You know, as we've seen from years and years of politicians, interventions in the economy, those usually don't work out that well either.

Which probably explains how people reacted at the rally when Bernier brought this issue up. The supply management producer. But those boos, they didn't hold a candle to how people reacted when Bernier talked about defunding the CBC. We can save money or so by cutting the CBC. This part of the night was interesting. cutting the CBC. This part of the night was interesting.

My producer and I had big mics that said CBC on them, and people did holler fake news at us, though it seemed like sort of a joke. While it was happening, I even took a little bow, and everybody laughed. Though, seriously, they did seem like they wanted to defund the CBC. Okay, moving on. The majority of people that attended the Bernier rally were white men, which is why Zayn Shafiq stood out. Zayn is buttoned down, 33 years old, looks like a guy with an MBA. Because he does have an MBA. Like Dave,

he was really drawn to Bernier's messages about fiscal conservatism. The problem is, is that Canada has structurally been spending more than it makes, not in bad times, but in good times. Justin Trudeau scares the bejesus out of me, because we just talked about having a $20 billion deficit. $20 billion. I wonder if your listeners can understand what a big number that is. And the government is spending more money than it makes right now. What do you think the deficit will be if 2008 happens again? If it's $20 billion right now, it'll be $40, it'll be $50. We are leaving our kids with a generational time bomb that is far more scary to me than anything Maxime Bernier

has said. I mean, I would make the case to you that Andrew Scheer and Justin Trudeau are the real radicals because they spend money that we don't have and they just put it on our kids' tab, oftentimes on quite wasteful things. I also talked to Zain about immigration. I personally feel, being an immigrant myself, that we have far too much immigration. And if you were to sort of think about many of the social problems that we have, and we're sitting here in Toronto with the highest rents in the nation, with the vast majority of people coming to Canada, immigrating to Canada every year, coming to the GTA in Toronto and Mississauga or one of the suburbs.

That's a conversation that we need to have. And then I just worry that whenever people bring it up, you know, there's calls of racist or calls of, you know, you're anti-immigrant or this, that or whatnot. It's, to me, just an economic question. I wanted to push back on these ideas about immigration. So I read Zane one of Bernier's more controversial tweets. People who refuse to integrate into our society and want to live apart in their ghetto don't make our society strong. Yeah. Yeah. What do you hear? What do you think when you hear that? What I think is, and obviously with the understanding that I don't know what Maxime meant exactly, but what I think is I do worry as a Canadian that we are all sort of identifying ourselves as Pakistani-Canadian or Indian-Canadians or, you know, pick whatever background you want. When I immigrated here, I moved here because I wanted to be Canadian.

When I immigrated here, I moved here because I wanted to be Canadian. And so I do worry that we are defining ourselves by what puts us, what separates us versus what sort of pulls us together. Before I move on to our third person, I want to note another thing that both Zane and Dave said that has stuck with me. They both think Maxime Bernier is a decent, consistent politician. Dave likened him to Jack Layton. I know a lot of people on the right and the left all supported late Jack Layton because he was a good, honest man, whether they agreed with him or not. That's what we're getting with Maxime Bernier as well. Zane said that he can count on Maxime to be consistent with his message, regardless of his audience. I feel that Justin Trudeau will go to Calgary and make a different speech to a different audience.

He'll go to Quebec and make a different speech. He'll say different things to different people. Maxime says the same thing in the room, regardless of who's there. This seems like the right place to mention that Bernier did not address immigration in his speech, even though he got heckled over it. No talk of, quote, radical multiculturalism, not a word about the stuff he's tweeted. Things like, quote, cultural balkanization brings distrust, social conflict and potentially violence. Or, quote, more diversity will not be our strength.

It will destroy what has made us such a great country. These messages have been criticized for demonizing immigrants and inflaming racial rhetoric. And he just left them off the table at the rally. Of anyone I met that night, Renee Smith was probably the most interesting. We sort of found each other during the rally. We were two of the very few women in the room. I really don't know that as a socially progressive feminist, that the movement of the party, I'm not sure that there's a place for me. Renee is a 47-year-old who works in accounting. She told sure that there's a place for me.

Renee is a 47-year-old who works in accounting. She told me that she's identified as a fiscal conservative, but she's worried that the federal conservative party could move towards social conservatism. Stuff like opposing gay marriage, and more importantly for Renee, anti-abortion policies. Everybody's talking all about Jason Kenney, Jason Kenney, and how, you know, he's going to save Alberta. And they're really backing him like he's this golden boy or something that's going to save conservatism in Canada. And frankly, he scares me. You know, he's very hard right. He says he's not a social conservative anymore, that he's expanded his horizons.

But is it only because they were forced to? Even though the conservative platform says they won't support any legislation that would regulate abortion, it bothers her that members voted on removing this reference at their convention in August. It lost 53 to 47 percent. So why Bernier then? Why, really. Bernier is a very flamboyant character. He's very charismatic. And so I went out of curiosity. I was curious about him. And I had been looking for a conservative party that was more leaning fiscally conservative. for a conservative party that was more leaning fiscally conservative. It's interesting that you talk about social conservatives. The person running in Burnaby South, the current by-election right now,

she was recently announced. And it doesn't sound like she's the most social liberal you're looking for. She's called gender fluidity, quote, the greatest and most insidious assault against our children that this nation has ever seen, end quote. Wow. Most people, most faith groups, if you talk about the Sikhs, the Muslims, the Christians, we believe that God made us powerful. He made us male and female, and that's what we hold to. She's also anti-abortion. And she's running for the People's Party in the by-election in Burdenby South.

See, this is what I was afraid of. So when Bernier first announced, it was very exciting. But I knew based on the things he was saying that I would have to see who the candidates were. But I would have to see who the candidates were, who were the people that he would be allowing to represent him and his party's vision in Canada. And so in the end, that's what it boils down to. He can be pro-choice all he wants, but he seems to not need other people to be. You sound conflicted. I am very conflicted.

And do you, this is upsetting to you. It's very upsetting. To find, to know that a candidate for this party is an abortion. I would not vote for her at all. I mean, that's one of my lines, red line. I just want to note here that Bernier has since come out to say that his party will not touch any social issues, abortion included, but that his candidates can express opinions.

They have the right to have their own opinion. We have a platform, a very strong platform with bold reform, and we ask our candidates to sign a pledge that they will fight for our platform to be adopted. Would your platform ever address issues like same-sex marriage, issues like abortion? Are you going to touch the social issues at all? No, it's not part of our platform. Sure. We've talked a little bit today about why the conservatives aren't necessarily the right party for you.

And we've also talked about how you were conflicted over whether the People's Party, the PPC, is the right party for you. Why not the liberals? I don't know. I just find that they're careless with money. So my conflict is, I could be comfortable with the Conservative Party before because they were good with money, supposedly. And they were staying away from, they were trying to be more center. And then Harper went off the rails in the last election. And I think he lost it because of the whole NACOB issue and all of that. When you join the Canadian family in a public citizenship ceremony, it is essential that that is a time where you reveal yourselves to Canadians,

and that is something widely supported by Canadians. He got too divisive and kind of hateful a little bit. And so he lost people like you. And now you have this other option, a fiscal conservative who has these libertarian views that you think could conceivably align with what you'd like to see, which is a fiscally conservative government that doesn't put their views, social views on people and lets them do what they want. That includes pro-choice, that includes gay marriage, and a host of other issues.

Yeah. So that's it. I mean... Is that a fair summary? It is a fair summary. I find that I don't have a home in Canadian politics right now. I don't know who to vote for. I don't have a home in Canadian politics right now.

Renee said it in such a gentle, melancholy way. And she's not sure the People's Party is going to change that. But if you think about those words, well, they could have easily been said by any number of people across the world right now. People who don't see a slate of politicians who reflect their issues. People who feel that the current system is failing them. You are the proof that this party is going somewhere. That's it for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog.

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