Front Burner - Trickster cancelled after Michelle Latimer controversy

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

On Friday CBC announced it was ending Trickster, a well-received television show that aired both here and in the U.S. There will be no second season as previously planned. The cancellation follows scrutiny over showrunner Michelle Latimer and questions about her Indigenous identity. Today, Anishnawbe playwright and humorist Drew Hayden Taylor joins us to share his thoughts on the cancellation and what it means to be Indigenous.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. On Friday, CBC announced it was ending Trickster, a well-received TV show that aired both here and in the U.S. There will be no second season. The cancellation follows scrutiny in December over Trickster showrunner Michelle Latimer and questions about her Indigenous identity, which provoked a lot of talk about film, art, culture, and what it means to be Indigenous.

Drew Hayden-Taylor is an Anishinaabe playwright and humorist. He joins me today. Hi, Drew. Thank you so much for making the time to come on to the podcast today. Good afternoon. Glad to be here. It's a pleasure to have you. So for people listening right now, if you haven't seen Trickster, it is a CBC original series that's based on Son of a Trickster by author Eden Robinson. I saw something weird last night. You're not real. I'm tripping. You're not real, I'm tripping.

You're not real, I'm tripping. Crazy's hereditary, right? It's this coming-of-age story about a young Indigenous man, and its first season was pretty well-received, right Drew? Oh, definitely. It was well-made, well-written, and it showcased a new generation of indigenous talent out there. Just because I'm not an activist doesn't mean I don't care.

There's just so much to care about. And the response was very positive. Right. And it was even picked up in the U.S. by the CW. So I want to spend some time today on the backstory of this cancellation here with you. In December, Trickster's co-creator and showrunner, Michelle Latimer, came under scrutiny in a CBC story. Her indigenous identity was questioned after she claimed ties with the Algonquin community of Kitigan-Zibi in Quebec. The community questioned her family connection to Kitigan-Zibi. questioned her family connection to Kitigan Zibi. Also, a genealogist said that Latimer had two indigenous ancestors dating back to the mid-1600s, but that most of her ancestors were actually French-Canadian, Irish, and Scottish. And Drew, I know that you know Michelle Latimer personally,

you've worked together, and I wonder how did you react to the news at the time? And I wonder, how did you react to the news at the time? Well, as I understand the story, family lore amongst her relatives had said that they had Indigenous ancestry. So I think the difficulty arose that she accepted it as fact rather than just as coffee table or kitchen table talk. And she moved forward on that rumor without taking the time to research it and confirm it. And personally, I was this way with the whole Joseph Boyden incident. And with this, I'm flabbergasted, for lack of a better term. I'm stunned. I'm always surprised at the

visceral response to this. I totally understand where people are coming from. This is an important issue, non-Native people claiming to be Native and going out and telling basically our stories using their voice, which is in fact not our voice. So I understand that. Right. I just want to mention, you mentioned Joseph Boyden, award-winning author Joseph Boyden, who was accused of misrepresenting his identity back in 2016. In his first public appearance, since an investigative reporter called into question his Indigenous background, Boyden, whose body of work is largely based on First Nations culture and identity, stuck to his story. I'm a white kid from Willowdale with native roots, I have always said very clearly and carefully

to the public, a small part of me is Indigenous, but it's a big part of who I am. And, you know, Michelle Latimer, her response to this, she has apologized for naming a connection with that community before I had done all of the necessary work to understand the connection. In emails with the CBC, she said she traced her identity, as you mentioned, from oral histories from her maternal grandfather. Can you tell me a little bit more, Drew, about what kind of responses have we been seeing from Indigenous people across the country as well?

Well, I mean, I'm going by conversations and by Twitter and all that, and it's just been absolutely overwhelming, the fact that so many people have taken this as a personal insult. A lot of people feel betrayed that they put faith into her, into this particular production. I understand Eden Robinson, the author of the original book series, of which the third, I think, is scheduled out in the next few months. I think, and she's taken it as a personal slight, too, that all this happened.

Michelle actually ended up resigning from her position on Trickster. She wrote in a Facebook post, I stand by who I am and my family's history, but also that she recognizes that she needs to take responsibility and be accountable to the community and my fellow artists. And that is why she stepped down. And I should also note that she has recently served the CBC with a notice of libel. recently served the CBC with a notice of libel. She said she has problems with the accuracy of CBC's reporting in that they, quote, reported inaccurately about my ancestry and created a false narrative about my character and lineage. You know, Drew, you were talking about telling Indigenous stories and what kind of other questions do these examples spark for Indigenous artists? Well, it's a very complex issue and there's so many ways of exploring it.

One of which is the ease with which people can claim Indigenous heritage and be believed. I mean, I and so many other Indigenous people, when we're doing a government document, a grant, or any of a number of other official pieces of paper, there's always usually a little box there that says are you indigenous Inuit or Métis and it's so easy to click it off and not have to authenticate that ticking of the box I mean I could just as easily tick off I am I am female or I am something because nobody follows up to confirm that bit. The other interesting thing about this whole thing is also for me and a lot of native people is, as you yourself said, a genealogist claims that there is back in the 1600s two indigenous ancestors. Well, that doesn't really mean a lot. There's a big difference, a huge difference, a humongous difference between having

indigenous ancestry and being indigenous, of being a part of the indigenous culture, of having the indigenous voice, because that comes from a knowledge, an experience, having been a part of the indigenous community and knowing the stories we want to tell, where they come from. I, in theory, have some Irish blood, not that far back, not 1600s, I think back 100, 150 years ago or whatever, one great-great-grandmother, and under no circumstances would I claim to be Irish. There's no way I would sit down and I might write an Irish story, but I would under no circumstances say this is an Irish story by an Irish man. So what pisses off a lot of Native people is this claim that

just because there are a few strands of Indigenous DNA in their heritage, that they can speak for us. And that, I think, is one of the chief reasons the Indigenous population is really annoyed. I know that you don't represent all Indigenous people, but I wonder if you could explain for me, in your view, what would allow someone to rightfully claim to be Indigenous? Well, that's the $64,000 question, using an old game show adage from the 60s and 70s. There has been a movement by, I think it was Tamara Bell, who wants to institute some form of Indigenous Authenticity Act. So you've got your sovereign nations who authenticate you, and then you've also got the

government involved. So people think that we're going to intervene. We're not intervening. Those methods already exist. This is simply an act to say that if you are fraudulently saying that you're Indigenous, that you could possibly criminally have charges pressed against you. Basically, it would be an act of government allowing people, in theory, people who claim to be Native, they would have to back it up. But as I've often said, we already have that in one particular aspect, the Indian Act. I have a card that says I am a registered and a status Indian. And as you may know from history, that hasn't always turned out so well. Many Native people are very uncomfortable having bureaucrats in Ottawa

basically saying who is Native and who isn't. So having another act, how do you police it? How do you institute it? There's been calls of having elders from the reserve decide or having the band office decide. To me, it's just difficult to police. And I don't know how that would happen. Do I have a solution? No, I do not have a solution. It's a difficult issue. I've had people tell me that their ancestry, any type of paper trail have been lost in fires on reserve or at governments or the fact that their parents

their grandparents their great great grandparents whatever were dispossessed or enfranchised from the community and booted out and they have a a connection to a community but the community does not well does not have a connection to them they use that as an example of why something like this would not work. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. I understand that this is incredibly complex and complicated. Is part of Indigenous identity also about being claimed by a community? It helps. It helps. I mean, one of the real basic avenues of understanding or being accepted by Native communities, one, self-identification, two, your community identifying you, and three, you actually being able to trace yourself to that community somehow, some way. And there's a fourth one, too, one of adoption into the culture. Okay. You know, talking about these funding awards and trying to navigate this complex topic, you know, it's also notable to talk about who gets to be the gatekeepers of

these awards, right? And is there a sense that Indigenous people are central to these choices? Oh, definitely. I mean, nobody wants a non-Native person being able to say you are Native and you are not. Again, we're back to the Indian Act. So so yeah that is it who who is a gatekeeper you know who watches the watchman and you have to keep in mind too that you know there's over 634 I believe First Nation communities in Canada and over 50 or 60 separate languages and dialects spoken so they're all very different people with very different ideas of what being a part of the community means. So it's a difficult question. I don't have an answer for it.

And when you're trying to put all these different people, all these different nations, all these different communities together to come up with one surefire set of rules to create the gatekeeper, I think that's going to create a heck of a lot of problems in itself. And I just want to mention one more time before we move on here, you know, we're talking about this issue more generally, but again, Michelle Latimer says she does stand by who she is and her family history. I'm going to go. empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

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we talked about how well received the show has been. And do you think that the CBC made the right decision in not proceeding with season two of the series? No, I do not think they made the right decision. I mean, for all of the problems of this controversy, it was a well-made series. And I congratulate Michelle for putting this together. Regardless of her heritage, anybody who works in production knows getting a six-part series up and running is a Herculean effort, and she managed to do it. And she managed to put together a really good series, and I commend her for that. The big problem being, as we know, is under a sort of a cloud of

misrepresentation and misunderstanding. Producer Jennifer Bademski says the resulting scandal hurts Indigenous storytellers. All of the, you know, dramatic revelations surrounding it will make it more difficult for all of us who are content creators, pitching shows and pitching series. Now, with that being said, I do not see why, and I use this metaphor in a recent article, you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It's a good series. The framework is there. The books are still there. It's quite common in television, in the television industry, to bring in a new showrunner to take it and push it into that next direction. There are Indigenous people out there who have experience writing for television, who

have experience in directing television, who can do this, pick this series up and push it in a newer, fresher direction. And I think the native population out there want it. They like what they saw. They think it can go further and they would like to think it can go further. And they would like to see it to go further. All these young people and all these young artists have proven themselves and want to prove themselves more. And judging by what I saw on Twitter, they think they should be given the chance provided with new leadership. Michelle Latimer also responded to the cancellation of Trickster. She said that she was proud of her entire team, that she was sad to see or to hear that season two has been canceled. And I know that she did say that one of the reasons why she stepped down was because she had hoped that the project could move forward.

Although I will say we did reach out to CBC for comment and heard back from spokesperson Chuck Thompson. will say we did reach out to CBC for comment and heard back from spokesperson Chuck Thompson. And he said that it was imperative all stakeholders wanted to move forward. And that was not the case here. CBC, he said, did not cancel it unilaterally, though he did not specify which stakeholders didn't want to move forward. And you know, I know that this is sort of retreading some of what we've talked about today. But I wonder if you might just tell me your thoughts on sort of the importance of telling Indigenous stories like Trickster. Well, for, oh God, for several hundred years now, we've been dealing with colonization, oppression, residential schools, etc. And we have at various times been called the disappearing Indian, the tragic Indian, the drunken Indian, etc.

And within the last, I don't know, half century or so, we're beginning to reinvigorate ourselves, our culture. We're beginning to tell our stories. We're no longer the victims. And we've got like all these hundreds of years of stories to tell that we want the right to tell them. Canada and CBC are supposed to be representative of a multicultural environment. And basically, other than historically the Beachcombers and North of 60, you very rarely saw Indigenous faces on mainstream Canadian television. I don't remember seeing them on Murdoch Mysteries or Front Page Challenge or any of those other shows that were out there.

And this is an interesting opportunity to get the Indigenous face and voice out there so that Canadians can know what is happening in Indigenous communities across the country, right? And there's few things more personal and important than identity. And Native people are very proud of who they are, very proud of their stories, and they want the opportunity to tell those stories. Drew, thank you so much for coming by and having this conversation with us. We're really appreciative.

It was a pleasure. All right, so one note before we go today. There is another project that's caught up in controversy here. Michelle Latimer directed an adaptation of Thomas King's award-winning book, The Inconvenient Indian. The documentary has been pulled from distribution and film festivals by the National Film Board. And some COVID news before we go. Ontario is reporting its first confirmed case of the coronavirus variant first identified in South Africa. It's known as B.1.3.5.1 and was discovered in Peel region. According to Ontario's chief medical officer, Dr. David

Williams, the person infected had no history of travel and no contact with a person who has been out of the country, suggesting that this is now community transmission. Dr. Williams said it's not clear if this variant results in more severe illness, but it is believed to be more transmissible. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll believed to be more transmissible. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.