Front Burner - Trudeau’s new cabinet trades sunny ways for damage control

Episode Date: November 21, 2019

On Wednesday, Justin Trudeau’s new cabinet was sworn in at Rideau Hall. The scene was a lot different from 2015 when Trudeau was coming in with a majority mandate and coming off a campaign based on hope and change. This time around the days of “sunny ways” are gone thanks to some high-profile scandals and deepening regional divides. Today on Front Burner, CBC’s John Paul Tasker analyzes how the government tried to address some of it’s biggest issues through it’s 2019 cabinet appointments.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Well, I'm very happy to be part of the new cabinet for the new Trudeau 2.0 cabinet. That is Liberal Cabinet Minister Melanie Jolie speaking to press at the swearing-in ceremony of Justin Trudeau's new Liberal cabinet. And the scene at Rideau Hall yesterday was a lot different than it was in 2015, back when Trudeau was handed a majority mandate from the electorate, coming off a campaign

based on hope and change. It's an incredible pleasure for me to be here today before you to present to Canada a cabinet that looks like Canada. Well, the days of sunny ways are gone, thanks to some high-profile scandals and deepening regional divides. Yesterday, we saw government trying to address this stuff with some high-profile appointments, namely Foreign Affairs Minister Christia Freeland

taking on the role of Deputy Prime Minister. My colleague J., JP Tasker, is with me to talk about all of this, including what the biggest challenges will be for this cabinet this time around. This is Frontburner. Hi, JP. Hey, Jamie. So glad to have you on the podcast. Glad to be back. Okay, so I couldn't help but think about 2015 when I saw the images from today, the scene, the rhetoric. It was different,

hey? Oh, God, yeah. So different. I mean, in 2015, there was so much optimism in the air, especially for progressive types. I mean, cabinet ministers were like basically skipping up the road to Rideau Hall. They were so excited. I remember they all like came up together and Trudeau walked with them. Arm in arm. Yeah. Yeah. They were so jazzed to be a part of the Trudeau ministry.

This is the, you know, the critical moment. This image of new, fresh, young, diverse is all unfolding, you know, now before us as they enter the grounds of Rideau Hall. And, you know, I guess there was a feeling that, you know, their slogan then was hope and hard work. And I think that there was a feeling that that hard work had paid off. But I think perhaps looking back, hindsight 2020, they were all a bit naive to the challenges of government. And frankly, virtually all, they were all a bit naive to the challenges of government.

And frankly, virtually all of them were new to government, right? Tons of rookies, right? Yeah. So few of them had any experience in politics or government. And now all of a sudden they were in charge of like big portfolios and running a $2 trillion economy. While all the cabinet ministers came out and spoke with journalists, no one had much of anything to offer yet about how they would get the job done. Well, I'm very enthusiastic to actually talk to the deputy minister and the chief of defense staff and learning about our file. I'm looking forward to departmental briefings. I haven't had a chance to be briefed yet. And you know, like, there was

excitement because we had gone through 10 years of the conservative government and Trudeau was promising a radical break. Right. And there was like this real desire for change. Yeah. And of course, since then, like, I think this government has been bruised a bit, right? I think a lot of people would argue that some of this could have been avoided. But we saw the SNC, Jody Wilson-Raybould scandal, this government lost a powerhouse indigenous leader. We saw election bombshells, Trudeau's blackface, brownface. What else? Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take anything away from them. They had a fairly successful first term.

I mean, they brought in the middle class tax cut. They had the Canada Child Benefit that's lifted, you know, hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty. The economy is doing really well, you know, in most parts of the country. We're at the lowest point in unemployment by most measures. You know, they've pumped billions into Indigenous affairs. We solved NAFTA, you know, saved a $800 billion trading relationship. But yeah, you're right. There was a lot of scandal last time. I mean, he was riding high in the polls to begin with. He was really going through a honeymoon period.

It looked like, you know, we were in another Trudeau era in Canadian politics, you know, like the Conservatives would be shut out of power for a decade or more. There was a lot of talk about this. But then we had things like him going to the private island with the Yaga Khan. We had that disastrous trip to India. And then, of course, this year we've been talking about SNC-Lavalin for so long. It kind of tarnished the whole promise of Canada's back, right? And then, of course, you know, we saw this government that was talking a lot about climate change.

There was, you know, a lot of accusations of hypocrisy when they bought the pipeline. And then at the same time, this growing resentment in the West, even though this pipeline was bought, that the federal government wasn't doing enough to help Alberta. So all of this is kind of brewing in the background. Of course, we've got the election on October 21. This government has delivered a minority. We saw a resurgence of the Bloc Quebecois in Quebec. We saw the Liberals essentially shut out of Saskatchewan and Alberta. And so, you know, take me to yesterday. How would you compare the scene to 2015?

Yeah, I mean, I think it was definitely more somber yesterday, frankly. There wasn't that same level of excitement that we just talked about. I mean, a minority government is so very different than the strong, stable national majority government they had last time around. And he has a cabinet now that doesn't have representation from huge gaps in the country. And this minority government could be plunged into a new election at any time. So the people that are holding these jobs now could be back on the campaign trail in a month's time.

Who knows? And the atmosphere around the swearing-in ceremony sure was different from 2015. Lying ahead for the Prime Minister's new inner circle, a political balancing act, implementing the Liberal agenda without a majority and in the face of bitter regional divisions. So it's different than the last time around when people, there was a clear four-year time period to enact an agenda and now things really are hanging in the balance. I heard our colleague David Cochran on television today sort of talk

about how the tone was like, work, not woke. Like, this is kind of what they were trying to deliver today. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think they've already signaled what their first piece of legislation will be, which is enacting this middle class tax cut that the prime minister promised in the last election. So they really have to get down to business because if there is another election, they want to get back to that majority status. Right. And they have to show voters that they're going to do the hard work to get to that point. And I think just to make a segue of sorts, they really have focused today on Quebec. And that's really clear that they've put some really important people in prominent roles because they think that path back to a majority leads through Quebec. Okay, so let's do Quebec. Quebec got a lot of love today. Tell me about that.

Yeah, so of all the 36 cabinet ministers, 10 of them are from Quebec alone. So a third of the cabinet comes from Quebec. And Quebecers got a lot of the big jobs. Like I said, we're seeing Francois-Philippe Champagne slide into this foreign affairs role, which is huge. We have Pablo Rodriguez. He's now the government leader in the House of Commons. And that's a really strategic move, because in addition to being that, he's also the Quebec lieutenant. And that's new. There wasn't a Quebec lieutenant in the last government. So the prime minister is signaling that he wants to have someone around him who speaks for Quebec at all times. And Rodriguez, as the House leader, will have to deal with the opposition parties more so than his predecessor, Bartosz Czajger, had to, right?

Right, because it's a minority government. Right, and so he has to go up against the Bloc Québécois. There was 10 Bloc MPs last time. Now he's got Yves-François Blanchet and 32 MPs staring across the aisle from him each and every day who will be banging on about Quebec-centric issues every day. And that's something they didn't face last time. It was mostly the Conservatives and an empowered NDP opposition, which had very different priorities than this bloc contingent will have this time around.

And so we're looking at 10 ministers from Quebec. Is this like an attempt to get back Quebec? Yeah, we have like Mélanie Joly, who kind of had a demotion in the last cabinet shuffle. She was taken away from Heritage. Now she's right back in there with a really important portfolio. You know, she's going to be the Minister of Economic Development

and she will be, you know, in charge of the regional economic agencies, which includes a big one that focuses on Quebec. So she's going to have a big, you know, big portfolio that's finance focused.

So that signals that she's not just the official languages minister anymore. She's really going to be a big part of this cabinet and she's well known in Quebec. So you're seeing some of these people who were kind of in the shadows over the last couple of years really emerge to be power brokers in this new government. And that's an attempt to win back those seats that they thought they could have won last time. Okay. And let's move to the West, right? We've been talking about Western discontent on the show a lot. And what did Trudeau do today that could help with that problem, that very big looming problem?

Yeah, and I think it's important to say off the top that a lot of this Western separatist and the alienation sentiments are a result of this government. I mean, they introduced really controversial things in the last parliament that really focused on the extraction industries, like Bill C-48, the Northern BC Oil Tanker Ban Bill, Bill C-69, the overhaul of the environmental assessment process. They killed Northern Gateway.

They made regulatory changes to kill Energy East, and they bungled the Indigenous consultation process with Trans Mountain. So they know that some of this frustration is a result of their own actions. I think they've been humbled by that. And so they put, you know, their top minister, Chrystia Freeland, who's coming off the foreign affairs portfolio. Justin Trudeau has picked her to be the deputy prime minister and the minister of intergovernmental affairs. She's from Peace River, Alberta. She's from rural Alberta. She knows what it's like. Her father's still a farmer there. He's a canola farmer of all things. So they're hoping that she can draw on that experience growing up in that

environment to really be the representation for the West around the cabinet table. And really to give her that job of working with people like Jason Kenney and Scott Moe, who've been, you know, frequent foes of this government. They think that if she can handle Donald Trump and NAFTA, they're hoping that she can do something about Kenny in Oriel. Right, I mean, these are guys who are pulling no punches, right? Like they just came out of meetings with the prime minister and just immediately started complaining right afterwards. Disappointedly, after this meeting here today, what I do see is that we are going to see more of the same from this prime minister. We had provided some options for him to support the people of the province.

And today I did not hear a commitment to moving forward on those items. And so, you know, the question I have for you is, will that be enough? Because they didn't put anyone unelected in cabinet to help with lack of Western representation. Krista Freeland, you know, you mentioned she's from Alberta, but she represents downtown Toronto. Exactly. Yeah. So do you think that's enough? I don't, actually. And I think, you know, Jim Carr, who is another able performer in this government, he's battling cancer right now.

He's been left out of cabinet. Trudeau kind of said today, don't worry, Carr is going to still be around. He's going to be my special advisor on the prairies. He's from Manitoba. Yeah. But he's from Winnipeg. And the other cabinet pick, they have Dan Vandal. He's also from Winnipeg, which is a little different than rural Saskatchewan where they pump oil out of the ground.

Right. So I think it's going to be hard. Let's not forget our largest export is oil to the United States. It accounts for a huge part of our GDP. A million Canadians work in the natural resources sector and not just in Western Canada. They know that this is part of their middle class jobs agenda. They're not totally naive to that fact. They just have to put a better spin on it.

They have to communicate better to people who work in these industries that they have their back. Well, let's talk about that for a second. What else did you see that might be speaking to that? Yeah, I mean, they've picked... Seamus O'Regan is the new Minister of Natural Resources, and he's a very trusted lieutenant of the Prime Minister. I mean, they're best friends. He was a groomsman in his wedding, right? This is someone who has the Prime Minister's ear. He comes from

Newfoundland and Labrador, which has a very robust oil sector of its own. I mean, they have offshore platforms not far from St. John's. And tons of people that work in the Alberta oil sands too. Exactly, yeah. They've exported so many people from that region to work in the oil sands. So I think that was a good move. I mean, it was the best move they could make in the circumstances. I mean, the Prime Minister said yesterday, we're working with what we got. You know, we can only work with the caucus that Canadians sent us, and there isn't anyone from the West. So there's only so much they can do.

Okay, you know, the other side of this is also the environment, right? Environment and Climate Change Minister Catherine McKenna, she had a difficult file. It seemed to get tougher with every year. She was moved. I think it's fair to say demoted yesterday. A couple of weeks ago, Alberta premier Jason Kenney demanded that McKenna get removed from this post. Do you think that that's what happened today? Was like Trudeau acquiescing to Alberta Premier Jason Kenney? Was this like another move to try and placate the West? Yeah, because that was one of their main asks, wasn't it? That was top of the list. She became the face of the government's environment agenda. And it was an agenda that really signaled out

Western Canada. And their pick, you know, Jonathan Wilkinson, he represents Northern Vancouver right now, but he's from Saskatchewan originally. He worked for the former premier there, Roy Romano. He's a prairie boy at heart. Right. So I think they hope, you know, they're drawing on these people who have roots in the prairies to be their face of the prairies.

And they're hoping that he might be able to take a different approach than what McKenna has done to this point. And it's a hugely significant file for them. I mean, they won in part by convincing Canadians, those who care about these things, that they would take real action on climate change and the environment. So they can't just brush it aside because they have to deal with this Western, you know, this Western alienation that's bubbling up. They still have to take a lot of action that they promised Canadians they would do. It feels like they're leaning quite heavily on people's backgrounds here. That was sort of like an interesting narrative that popped out of today for me.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Can we go back to Freeland for a second, speaking of backgrounds? You know, this is a job that feels like it has many hats. So she seems to be in charge of relationships with all provinces so i of course the west but i'm assuming also like ontario and then she also seems to be in charge of relations with the u.s and nafta like this is this is a lot

i'm just wondering if this is like a good job you know like it just feels like such a doozy like go fix this federalist system that seems to be broken and while you're at it have fun with Donald Trump over there yeah I don't think I could handle it frankly it's a very daunting I don't want this job yeah I know but you know what I think she's tailor-made for it she really is she's been given the most difficult files in the first parliament. She really had to work on things that looked dead in the water, like the comprehensive agreement with Europe on free trade, the Trans-Pacific Partnership and that deal, and NAFTA, of course. ways she was definitely part of those negotiations and pushed hard to get things for Canada that were not looking so good at the outset of those negotiations. So I think she did not want to give up NAFTA as it's working its way through Congress right now. It's not done. They haven't signed on the dotted line. It hasn't been ratified. They haven't signed on the dotted line and they really

need to get that one over the finish line. And I think she wants to be a part of that. She knows it more than anybody else. And so she, you know, I think what they're trying to do is spin that intergovernmental affairs name to also include the U.S. government. And, you know, she does know the players. She knows Bob Lighthizer, the U.S. trade representative, better than anybody else. And she's the one who's really well positioned to do it. And of course, it was interesting listening to her talk today outside Rideau Hall. She's like already drawing parallels between these two processes that the NAFTA negotiations were really not about just speaking to the U.S., but about like listening to stakeholders across the country. And in her new role as sort of intergovernmental

affairs, she needs to listen to people across the country, listen to stakeholders across the country. That was interesting to hear her sort of work through that today. The strongest learning we came out of from the NAFTA negotiation was you have to face the big challenges united as a country. And that is what we need to do when it comes to confronting the big issues of our time. When it comes to the West specifically, I think what we need to do as a federal government, when it comes to the West and when it comes to all our provincial relationships, is really listen hard.

And of course, you know, I know, and you would know better than me, there are tons of rumors that she could be Trudeau's successor here too. Yeah, I mean, typically when you think about deputy prime ministers, you don't usually put someone who could vie for the leadership in that role. I mean, prime ministers are usually sort of protective of that. They don't want anyone sucking up any of their oxygen. You know, like Pierre Elliott Trudeau picked Alan J. McKechn, who was always his trusted lieutenant. But McKechn didn't have any leadership aspirations.

He didn't want to be the prime minister, you know. Anne McClellan was Paul Martin's deputy prime minister. You don't, and she didn't have any leadership aspirations either. So you typically kind of put those folks who will be loyal soldiers in that role, someone who won't try and usurp you as the prime minister. So it's very interesting that Christy Freeland is picked for this because she kind of breaks the mold for what previous deputy prime ministers have been. And I think it's probably fair to say she's looked, I don't know how seriously, but I'm sure she's considered, you know, running in the future and something, you know, she's been able to have this much success to this point. I'm sure she's thinking of, you know, in the future and something you know she's been able to have this much success to this point i'm sure she's thinking of you know making a run for it herself one day and this is

obviously a good launching pad yeah especially she does well in this role which feels like a very almost insurmountable task um okay what am i missing here any other big takeaways that we haven't hit on i just want to stress how urban this government is. When you look at the cabinet, I mean, it's really Toronto and Montreal centric. Interesting. Yeah. And it really, really is like 11 of the cabinet ministers are from the greater Toronto area alone, like not Ontario, but the GTA. Seven are from the island of Montreal, like the island of Montreal, not even Quebec or the greater Montreal area. You know, in places like Atlanta, Canada has really kind of been left out this time, I'd say, of the cabinet table.

You know, Jeanette Pettypaw-Taylor, who was the minister of health from New Brunswick, was kicked out of cabinet today. She's been left out. There's only four cabinet ministers from all of Atlanta, Canada. And all of them are sort of, besides Seamus, sort of minor roles. You know, they won't necessarily be that prominent moving forward. And even in BC, the Liberals did quite well in BC, four cabinet ministers from there. So we're seeing, and only one from the Prairies, of course, Dan Vandell from Winnipeg. So we're seeing this really unfortunate regional stratification

where the Liberal Party is essentially the party of Toronto and Montreal. And, I mean, that's where the seats are. So I get it. That's how they won. But it is unfortunate because it isn't necessarily a national cabinet. There's nobody from the north, for example. And traditionally, they've really protected the cabinet as a representation of the regions and of the entire country from sea to sea to sea. And I think that what we saw today with these seven new faces being added in, five of which are from Toronto or Montreal, we're really moving to a place where the Liberal government is increasingly just representative of the urban areas of this country. Something that, of course, is exacerbating divides that we're

already seeing across the country. And, you know, one thing I wanted to mention that we didn't get a chance to at the beginning, you know, I do know in 2015, Trudeau promised that his cabinet would be gender parity. Why was that so important to you? Because it's 2015. And I just want to note, because I think it's fair to give them this, it is again this time around.

Yeah, although there was some criticism online that a lot of the women got the demotions and have the minor portfolios and a lot of the big time things are being held by men that is a very fair observation too yeah uh jp on that note uh thank you so much for being here uh it is always a pleasure thanks jamie i really appreciate it Jamie. I really appreciate it. So before we go today, some big, big news out of the U.S. impeachment hearings yesterday. The ambassador to the European Union's bluntest comments yet, Gordon Sondland said he was following President Trump's orders when he pressured the Ukrainians into conducting investigations into Joe Biden's son, and that this investigation was a condition to secure

a White House meeting for the new Ukrainian president. Trump, of course, has been denying there was any kind of quid pro quo. The ambassador also tied several top administration officials to all of this, including Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. That is all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and see you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.