Front Burner - Trudeau’s UN charm offensive in Africa

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau kicked off an eight-day charm offensive in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia this past weekend, attending a meeting of the African Union. Now, he’s Dakar, Senegal. And it’s all part of the government’s efforts to get Canada a seat on the United Nations Security Council. Today, CBC’s Catherine Cullen explains why the government’s gunning for this seat, and whether all the time and money put into this bid is really worth it.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Justin Trudeau is waging a bit of a charm offensive right now. Not at home, but abroad. This visit is a chance for us to take our partnership and our friendship to the next level. The Prime Minister kicked off an eight-day international tour in Ethiopia this past weekend.

He attended a meeting of the African Union. The President and I are on the same page. We want to grow our economies while protecting our environment. Now he's in Senegal, and it's all part of the Liberals' effort to get Canada a seat on the United Nations Security Council. Today, I'm talking to my colleague Catherine Cullen, who's along for the ride, about why the government's gunning for this seat, and whether all the time and money put into this bid is really even worth it. This is FrontBurner.

worth it. This is Sprung Burner. Hi Catherine. Hi Jamie. Thank you so much for joining me today. I know you just got off a plane. You're refueling in Athens en route from Kuwait to Senegal and we're talking to you in like the back of a car. That's right. This is the quietest place we could find so I can actually see the planes taking off at the airport while we talk about global affairs. It seems very fitting. So we know that Justin Trudeau is on this tour as part of his strategy to get Canada UN Security Council seat. And just briefly, what does it mean to get this seat? Well, there are 15 seats on the UN Security Council. This is only a temporary seat actually for all the the sort of hullabaloo around this. There are five permanent members.

Canada is trying to get one of these two-year terms. What Canadian officials, members of Justin Trudeau's team who are invested in this will say and what the prime minister himself says is listen this is the big table. This is where big decisions are made. When all sorts of global where all sorts of global powers come together and talk about the biggest issues facing the world. Having a Canadian voice at that table is important for Canadians,

but also for countries around the world who share our values, who share our concerns, who share our perspective on the world. It is in, they would argue, Canada's interest to be at that table, to be able to have a say. You also get a chance to raise issues while you're a member of the Security Council. So this is about, I think, to some extent having clout, having an influence on global affairs. Of course, Canada, you know, big economy, G7 country, but still something of a middle power. Perhaps this is a little bit of a boost, and certainly it fits in with the Liberals' message that Canada is back, now that Justin Trudeau is in power.

So it's certainly very much part of that worldview and that pitch to Canadians. Having that voice there is a means for Canada to continue to have an impact at the multilateral level around the world. We will continue to work together significantly. Okay, and I want to unpack with you a bit more in a moment about whether this all might be worth it. But first, when was the last time that we held a UN Security Council seat? I'm going to say 1999 to 2000.

Basically, Canada had one every decade starting in the 40s until the Harper government was in power. And in 2010, Canada lost its bid for the UN Security Council. So something, I mean, certainly Stephen Harper had a few qualms with the UN, but not necessarily a great moment for Canada. Some people looked at it as Canada losing a little bit of face. Everyone expected that Canada was going to win. It didn't quite turn out that way. So again, I was saying a moment ago, this idea of Canada is back, a lot of what Justin Trudeau has campaigned on, certainly in 2015.

To this country's friends all around the world, many of you have worried that Canada has lost its compassionate and constructive voice in the world over the past 10 years. But I think we saw even this election is just contrasting himself to the government before. In 2015 we closed the book on the Harper decade. We can't afford to go back. And why do we lose the seat back then?

Well a very interesting question. So as I have educated myself about the UN Security Council, I suppose to some extent, no one really knows because this is a secret ballot. Countries don't have to say who they vote for. I did mention, you know, Stephen Harper maybe had some qualms with the UN. There are also questions that were raised at the time about Canada's stance on some issues in the Middle East, whether or not that might have contributed to some countries deciding not to support Canada's bid. Right, Israel specifically, right?

Certainly some of the questions raised at the time were whether or not Stephen Harper's closeness with Israel, and we see this even today, obviously. He said when he was Prime Minister, he says even now, Canada-Israel, very close friends. There are, after all, a lot more votes, a lot more, in being anti-Israeli than in taking a stand. But as long as I am prime minister, whether it is at the United Nations, the Francophonie, or anywhere else, Canada will take that stand, whatever the cost.

I believe they need a bird sanctuary after him in Israel recently, but a staunch defender of Israel. And there was some feeling at the time that perhaps that had put off some Muslim countries. So I know that this sort of charm offensive for Canada to get a UN Security Council seat this time around has been going on for a while preceding this trip, right? And so before we get to the trip that you're on, what have we been doing in the lead up to try and get the seat? Well, certainly a lot of the work has been done by Marc-André Blanchard, Canada's ambassador to the UN. He is on this trip and he is, I mean, this guy is a force of nature when you meet him. He really, he passionately loves the United Nations as much as anyone you would

ever want to meet. I hope that all Canadians share my passion for actually making sure that Canada gets a seat on the Security Council. The UN is the only organization where all countries of the world come together to actually tackle the worst challenges or the biggest challenges on this planet. He has certainly been very much involved in this campaign, but one of the criticisms actually of how Justin Trudeau's government has been handling this entire file is that maybe they weren't as engaged as they ought to have been up until now if they did want this seat. Of course, there's been another really

big issue in international affairs that's been preoccupying the Trudeau government up until now, and that was NAFTA, right? Donald Trump. I mean, frankly, there have been a lot of issues on the international stage, but a lot of Canada's focus was on securing this new NAFTA, this new agreement. And some of the questions that have been raised by observers of the UN, observers of this whole process, are whether or not Canada truly has been as engaged as it could be, or whether it's only shifting focus now. And that's why we're really seeing this charm offensive kick into high gear. Okay, and we're not the only country gunning for this, right? I note this because I've seen this video that Ireland made that has Bono in it, which looks quite glossy. Our own famine might have been 173 years ago, but it's still very much in our memory.

Ireland was a very poor country. So I think we know the difference support can make. That's right. And not only are we not the only country in it, so both Norway and Ireland are gunning for the same position as we are, and there are two spots for Western Europe and other is the category. But the sense is that both Ireland and Norway have been in this for a lot longer, that Canada is perhaps coming to the table a little bit late. Ireland has had an Ireland and Africa strategy that dates all the way back to 2011. We actually got the chance to speak to the Prime Minister of Norway while we were in Ethiopia,

because while Justin Trudeau is conducting his charm offensive, well, the woman who apparently is known as Iron Erna, Erna Solberg, the Prime Minister of Norway, was there as well. They were at the very same events, giving speeches one after the other. And she agreed to talk to Canadian reporters. She was very polite. Canada is a bigger economy, a larger country, of course. But on the other hand, of course,

we are using more development aid. We have used more support for the international policies as part of our JDP. So basically, the Prime Minister of Norway is throwing a little bit of shade our way, although it sounds kind of polite. A little bit of shade. The most polite shade. It was almost Canadian, I would say. She didn't say she was sorry afterwards, though, so not fully Canadian, you know? so tell me more about what trudeau's been doing in africa i know he was at this african union meeting in ethiopia and now you're on your way to senegal like what's the strategy here

what we saw particularly at the african union meeting and of course that's important because there are 54 countries in the African Union that can vote in the UN, I mentioned before. In this case it'll be 193 nations in the UN that are going to have a vote. So 54 of those votes, pretty big deal, right? He was having one, we call them bilats, is sort of the journalist slang, the political slang, bilateral meeting, basically a leader-to-leader, country-to-country meeting. He was having one meeting after another. I really do think I lost count. Welcome to Africa. I believe this is your first time. First time to Ethiopia, but not my first time to Africa. Basically, I think, trying to find common ground with Canada.

So talking about issues, for instance, the need to increase not so much aid, it is about building infrastructure, doing more trade, economic growth. And so part of how Canadian officials, you know, be it the foreign affairs minister, the ambassador to the UN, the prime minister, part of it of how they're trying to sell this to Canadians, too, is saying, listen, there's economic opportunity here, like this is in everybody's best interest. Canadian companies should be more involved. If we were building infrastructure here, this would be good for us. It would be good for African countries. Ethiopia is one of the fastest growing economies in the world. And with its young, ambitious and creative workforce, it is set to become a major economic hub.

And we hear Justin Trudeau too talking a lot about some of his priorities that seem to mesh nicely with what some African leaders are talking about. We heard a lot about the empowerment of women for instance. We want women and girls to have the same opportunities as men and boys. A lot about sustainable development, climate change. Of course, some countries in Africa are really seeing firsthand the effects of that in a way that we aren't necessarily as to an extreme degree in Canada. So talking about those things, convincing African leaders that he is interested in some of the same issues that they are and saying, well, listen, we could be a voice for those concerns if we were to get that UN Security Council seat.

What's your sense of how this is being received? I mean, we don't truly know the answer to that. And again, I would point you to the fact that this is going to be a secret ballot. We do get the sense that they are pretty happy to be glad-handing with Justin Trudeau. You know, I think in Canada, maybe Canadians, well, even if you just look at his approval ratings, popularity ratings, they've diminished. We look at the results of the last election, Justin Trudeau, you know, some of the shine is off. There's certainly been a couple of scandals, at least facing this government.

We think about SNC-Lavalin, you think about what happened during the election with Black and Brownface. Canadians maybe don't view him quite the same way as they used to, but he is still, frankly, something of a celebrity on the international scene. And this was the first time that a Canadian prime minister ever addressed the African union so the fact that he's there people are excited to see him you know Canadian officials are very quick to kind of like sidle up to you when you're covering one of these things and whisper in your ear that did you notice that Justin Trudeau maybe got maybe got a little bit more applause than the prime minister of Norway did you see how excited everyone was to see him? Did you notice that the Prime Minister of Ethiopia spent two hours showing him around? They're just reminding you how great this is all going, hey? Yeah. Yeah,

well, listen, the question is, what does it concretely mean on all kinds of levels, right? What does it concretely mean for this UN security bid? And is this all just talk and photo ops, or does it result in some sort of concrete, meaningful change for these countries, for the way that Canada is engaging with Africa? But we'll wait and see. Canada was surprised in 2010. Although I will say, I really think that this is, it's different this time. Justin Trudeau is really putting his reputation on the line here, right?

He is out doing some globetrotting right now, trying to use himself to sell Canada. If this doesn't work out, does he lose a little bit of face? Now, we actually asked the prime minister, essentially, you say Canada is back. If you lose, doesn't this mean that maybe Canada isn't really back? We have consistently been involved in the world, consistently been involved in supporting Africa. The Security Council seat is a means to continue to do that, but there are many different ways that we're focused on doing that and have been. I think perhaps privately I suspect even he would acknowledge that it would, let's just

say it would be sub-optimal for for the liberals if he were to lose. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Can we talk about the payoff here? Let's say we get this Security Council seat. I certainly get the argument that

the liberals are making that this is an important seat on the world stage it puts canada at the center of a lot of decision making but are there drawbacks to this too without question somebody who made that point i thought very well was, here she comes again, our friend, the Prime Minister of Norway, Iron Irma, was very articulate, I thought about this the other day when she spoke to Canadian reporters, and we talked to her about why her country would want this seat, why any country would want it. And she said, you know, this is also a responsibility. And in fact, she used the word burden. She said it is something of a burden.

I mean, you have to take a stand in some policy decisions that you as a non-member don't have to do. Right. Talk about, for instance, we were talking earlier about the Middle East. There are particular votes that might go only to the Security Council. Maybe you have to choose a side on a bit of a touchy subject. And I think the one other thing, Jamie, that we haven't talked about very much in all of this that is important to say is the UN Security Council, it's not as esteemed an institution as it used to be, right? Again, experts will tell you, you look at some of the problems that have been facing the globe recently, the war in Syria, the situation in Myanmar, and a sense that the UN Security Council simply hasn't done enough that it's

been paralyzed by disagreements amongst its members and it just hasn't acted. You know, this is not the shining moment for the UN Security Council that it used to be. So there's certainly a little bit of a shine off this prize. That said, that hasn't discouraged the Liberals who will just tell you, well, Canada needs to be a part of it to make things better. Right. It does feel like this council has become a place for squabbles between the big powers. You know, I just think about the amount of times that resolutions have been vetoed

on Syria by China or Russia. Even if we got a temporary seat on the Security Council, what could we even do in situations like that? I mean, frankly, it's an excellent question. I was going to say, could Canada really make a difference? I don't know whether or not the Prime Minister would argue that Canada could really change the shape of something like that. But officials say, listen, we could be playing an important role writ large on a lot of these questions, and it's something we should be doing. At the end of the day, do you think that voters back home really care about this? This is something we've now spent $2 million on, according to some figures. Do you think that it is an important issue domestically?

I will tell you that as a journalist covering this particular situation, that is something that I ask myself, like not even every day, but every time I sit down to write something about this particular trip, I do think that there is a swath of Canadians, and certainly a lot of these people are probably liberal voters, who maybe they wouldn't tell you that they care about the UN Security Council, but Canadians care about Canada's place in the world. Now, how many of those voters would view Canada being a part of the UN Security Council as a meaningful boost in Canada's place in the world? And how many voters are going to say, this is a lot of time and a lot of money that goes into something that just seems like a lot of bureaucracy to me? I think it does, in a lot of ways, probably feel a little bit far away

from the lives of the average Canadian. And also, I think another interesting part of this story, in terms of the way that the Liberals are pitching it, although they're certainly not necessarily using quite these words, but they talk about it being a time where multilateral institutions are under attack. Now, again, talk about it being a time where multilateral institutions are under attack. Now, again, talk about do Canadians care? I don't know very many Canadians who get worked up about multilateral institutions. It's a word, though, that gets used a lot by politicians. We're talking about places of international cooperation. And it's true. Look at Brexit. Look at Donald Trump. I mean, he definitely has a beef with the UN. We've certainly seen that

publicly. He's questioning NATO as well. All of these different places where countries come together to cooperate on things. He's saying, are we getting our money's worth? And the Liberals are essentially arguing, although they are not name-checking Donald Trump publicly, they're arguing international cooperation is more important than ever. We want to be part of the force that's fighting for that. Absolutely. And this has been something that we've heard for the last several years. Krista Freeland was on this podcast

a while back, and I think the word multilateralism and rules-based order came up so much we could have played a drinking game around it. That could be dangerous, I think. Absolutely. Okay, Katherine Cullen,

thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Happy to do it. Okay, so before we sign off today, an update on our Tuesday episode about the ongoing fight to construct a natural gas pipeline on Wet'suwet'en territory in British Columbia. As we discussed over the last several days, the RCMP has been dismantling blockades and camps set up to halt the pipeline. Dozens of people have been arrested at Wet'suwet'en and at protests across the country. On Tuesday, those protests continued. In Ontario, about 25,000 people had to change their travel plans because of disruption to rail

lines. Coastal GasLink, the company building the pipeline, said Tuesday that workers will return this week to the contested land and that it is, quote, extremely disappointed enforcement was required and hopes to speak with hereditary chiefs. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner and talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.