Front Burner - Trump & corruption with Pod Save America

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Corruption is a word that’s come up throughout this year in relation to U.S. President Donald Trump’s second term. There have been allegations of personal enrichment, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, through his family’s crypto and real estate ventures. There are also accusations of quid pro quo deals with foreign leaders and convicted criminals seeking pardons.Is this a bug in Trump’s administration, or a feature?To put it all into focus, Tommy Vietor is here. He’s been following this issue of corruption on his very popular podcast, Pod Save America. He also co-hosts Pod Save the World.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

I'm a bit of a spontaneous traveler, and I don't always know where I'm going to be or how long I'm going to be there. And that's where Aerolo comes in. An e-sim from Aerolo allows me to get internet coverage, whether I need it for a specific country, an entire region, or globally. It's easy to set up and I can top up as I go without having to swap out SIM cards. It's the perfect way for me to stay connected. Just download the Aeroa app, pick your destination E-Sim, including plan length, and data amount, install, and you're connected the moment you land. No surprise roaming fees, no airport kiosks, or sketchy public Wi-Fi. Instead, just pay for the data you need.

Stream your playlist, scroll, text, navigate, and video call home, all without watching your phone bill explode. Plus, Aero Lo works in over 200 destinations and is trusted by over 20 million travelers. So if you have an international trip, download the AeroA app or visit Aero.com. That's A-I-R-A-L-O-com and use the code Roamsmart for 15% off your first ESIM. Terms apply. This is a CBC podcast. Hey everybody, it's Jamie. Corruption. That is a word that's come up throughout this year in relation to Donald Trump's second term.

Allegations of personal enrichment in the hundreds of millions through his family's crypto and real estate ventures, accusation. of quid pro quo deals with foreign leaders and convicted criminals seeking pardons, the blurred lines between public policy and private profit? Is it a bug in this administration or a feature? To put all of this in focus, Tommy Vitor is here. He's been following this issue of corruption on his very popular podcast, Pod Save America. He also co-hosts Pod Save the World. Today, we'll go through examples of how Trump, his family, his inner circle, and political allies

have been using the power of the Oval Office for a personal gain. And the wider consequences of, in Tommy's words, corruption so brazen, it's all getting lost. Tommy, thanks so much for coming on to the show. It's really great to have you. Jamie, thank you so much for having me. It's fun to be here. So I want to start by digging into some of the ways that Donald Trump, his family, and his inner circle have directly enriched themselves this past year. And maybe let's start with the Trump organization, a real estate company, by Trump's father and now run by his sons.

At the beginning of the year, the company said that the president won't be involved with the day-to-day management of the company and that the company won't enter into new contracts with foreign governments during his presidency. But the Wall Street Journal came out with a report this summer, detailing how that didn't happen. So how has it actually worked in practice? I mean, what seems like is happening is Donald Trump's kids, Donald Trump Jr., or Eric Trump, just kind of follow him around the world. And they cut deals to build, you know, golf resorts or hotels or Trump towers with various countries.

And with that, another Trump golf course is opened here in Scotland. That was one of the key reasons that President Trump was traveling here, mixing the family business with the office of the presidency. The world's most talked about name is now in Dubai. Welcome to the first and only Trump International Hotel and Tower in the Middle East, designed to dominate. And they do so in the context of the U.S. slapping tariffs on basically every country in the world, including like uninhabited islands filled with sheep in various places. So it seems like they're very much launching, you know, new deals and, you know, the corruption is sort of a feature, not a buck. And just if I could put two examples maybe to you, there was this plan to build like a $500 million Trump Tower in Belgrade that was actually derailed because a Serbian minister was indicted and accused of using their position to get the deal through.

The company did manage to break ground earlier this year on a $1.5 billion golf resort in Vietnam, which had permits that normally would have taken years for approval. And just when you hear these examples, when you see these examples, what do they say to? year. Yeah, so the Serbia example is incredible. This was a deal that Jared Kushner was trying to push through that he actually, I think, announced he was abandoning earlier this week. It involved an attempt to lease the buildings and property that used to house the former Yugoslavian Ministry of Defense that was bombed by NATO in 1999. It was like apocalypse. This place is soaked with the history of Serbian military. and it means a lot to me because I work there. Me personally, I will stand in front of Excavator and I will protect the building with my body. And according to a bunch of reports,

this deal required Kushner to put up a monument condemning NATO aggression in the 90s. And remember, NATO was bombing this military base because of ethnic cleansing. So that's just an astounding example of, you know, the Trump family being willing to, to cut a deal with this sort of right-wing corrupt Serbian government that included an explicit monument condemning NATO. And it sort of tells you everything you need to know about the U.S.

relationship with NATO at this point. And then, you know, you mentioned this Vietnam deal. The New York Times had a great report on what the Trump family is trying to do in Vietnam. My understanding is it includes like a $1.5 billion golf complex outside of Hanoi and then a skyscraper in Ho Chi Minh City. And the Times reported that, Vietnamese government officials were basically going door to door to get residents to a degree to let Trump build a new golf course on their property that would require digging up cemeteries where like generations of their family members have been laid to rest, digging up farmland, residents were told they would get half the value of their land. These officials were more than willing to ignore their own laws and just give the Trump family favors that no one else gets because they wanted to manage the pressure from the Trump administration of a, at that point, a threatened 30% tariff

on the country. And it's just like, there's just example after example like this. Like, I don't know if you remember when Trump after the Gaza ceasefire was inked, he went to Egypt. There was this big peace summit event in Charmel Sheik, Egypt. At that event, for Boas Subianto, the president of Indonesia, was overheard on a hot mic asking Donald Trump to connect him with his son, Eric. And he said, I'll have Eric call.

Should I do that? He's such a good boy. I'll have Eric call. And there was something about like looking for a better place. Presumably, this was about a golf course or a resort or something. But like the corruption is just completely baked in to everything Trump seems to do around the world. You mentioned Kushner, his son in line.

I just feel like he is a really interesting example. of like the confluence of business interests and foreign policy colliding, right? And of course, he has this private equity firm, Affinity Partners that he started in 2021. It's backed by all these sovereign wealth funds in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and Qatar and like beyond that Serbia project. Like talk to me a little bit more about Kushner and Affinity. You know, he's like brokering peace deals with Gaza and Ukraine and also doing this stuff. So Jared Kushner, in the first Trump term, kind of appointed himself the shadow secretary of state. He worked out of the White House, he and Ivanka, and Jared just decided he, like, thought foreign policy was fun and interesting and he would put himself in charge of a bunch of things.

He left the administration, and he started this investment firm, Affinity Partners and got like a $2 billion check from the Saudis, I think, right out of the gate, and then huge checks from the Emirates and the Qataris from their sovereign wealth funds. And I think his assets under management at this point is pretty close to about $5 billion. And nearly all of that money is from these various sovereign wealth funds. So I think you have to wonder, you know, what investment expertise was he bringing it to bear? I mean, there was a report in the Times, I believe, that other top Saudi officials on their sovereign wealth fund had real reservations about giving that much money to Jared Kushner because he had no proven track record. The crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, overruled a host of a host of a business. objections from the sovereign wealth funds advisors. The private equity firm was found to be, quote, unsatisfactory in all aspects.

The kingdom would be taking on the bulk of the investment and the risk. There was a seemingly excessive asset management fee and public relations risks due to Kushner's involvement. But Mahab bin Salman, the Crown Prince kind of rammed it through. And it looks like a kickback for, you know, services rendered in the first term. And so now, you know, Jared is, again, not in government, but he is kind of playing this weird, you know, hybrid negotiator role along with Steve Whitkoff, where they fly around the world, negotiate on behalf of the United States with the Israelis or Hamas, or most troublingly to me, they are kind of carving up Ukraine with this guy who is the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund. And it just feels like, you know, that is the kind of thing that, look, to me, it seems like Vladimir Putin sees them as Marx. And he said, all right, I'm the semi-sovereign wealth fund guy, the guy with the money, to try to negotiate this, you know, so-called peace deal with Ukraine and also kind of dangle some deals in front of Kushner and Wickoff. Whatever deals have been made around real estate and through these companies, they have also been kind of like dwarfed by the earnings from their crypto ventures, right?

Yeah, yeah. Reuters reported in October that in just the first half of the year, the Trump family made 800 million from crypto versus 62 million from their real estate and licensing ventures. That's from things like World Liberty Financial, the company in Stablecoin run by Eric and Don Jr. and Steve Whitkoff. son, Zach, and then these meme coins like Trump and Melania, digital trading cards. I guess the list goes on, right? And how has this approach to crypto from a policy standpoint, help boost the Trump's family ventures? Because, you know, when Trump came on as president, he was, he said he was going to make the U.S. the crypto capital of the world. And he went on to enact a bunch of crypto, pretty crypto-friendly policies. No, you're right. I mean, look, but recall, like Trump in his

first term did not like crypto. Yes. He condemned it. And then he left office. And then what seems like happened was a bunch of really rich crypto guys started a super pack. And they went to Donald Trump and they said, we will spend hundreds of millions of dollars electing you and other Republicans. And also some people pitched him on starting his own crypto ventures. And it's made him fabulously wealthy. This afternoon, I'm laying out my plan to ensure that the United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the Bitcoin superpower of the world.

and we'll get it done. The Financial Times calculated that the Trump family's crypto business has made them over a billion dollars in pre-tax crypto profits in 2025. And remember, that is only realized gains. So that's like money that is in their pocket from fees or trading or whatever. It does not include the unrealized value of the holdings of like the Trump meme coin, for example. If you calculated that, it would be billions more.

Well, I don't know if it benefited. I don't know where it is. I don't know much about it other than I launched it. I heard it was very successful. I haven't checked it. Where is it today? You made a lot of money, sir. How much?

Several billion dollars, it seems like, in last several days. Several billion. That's peanuts for these guys. And again, you know, this is happening as Trump is also regulating the industry or in reality, kind of giving up on regulating the industry and giving up. on enforcing fines or other penalties on companies that break the law. And, you know, you're right, like you kind of get lost in the just volume or many different ways this corruption is happening. But, I mean, I think, you know, the most shocking example to me was this Emirati-backed investment

fund called MGX made a $2 billion investment into a crypto company called Binance. And they did it using Trump's stable coin, which is called USD1. For those who don't know, a stable coin is just a, it's a cryptocurrency pegged to a value, like, so $1, basically. And that reportedly will earn the Trump family about $80 million per year in interest payments. And it instantly vaulted USD1 to being one of the biggest stable coins in circulation. And then a few weeks later, the United States agreed to sell the UAE really, really advanced artificial intelligence chips, which just feels like this is those are the deals that are getting made. You know, I want to move on to pardons, but before we do in this area, of like very transactional deal-making foreign policy, are there other examples of kind of blatant

attempts by Trump to line his pockets or benefit greatly while participating in diplomacy that you might like to talk about? Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you know, Qatar just gifted him a $400 million plane. That's a weird one. If we can get a 747 as a contribution to our Defense Department to use during a couple of years, while they're building the other ones. I think that was a very nice gesture.

Now, I could be a stupid person to say, oh, no, we don't want a free plane. We give free things that we'll take one too. And I think the U.S. government is going to spend up to a billion dollars refurbishing it to make it kind of compatible or suitable to actually serve as Air Force One, given the security requirements and communications needs.

And then Trump says he's going to donate the plane to his own presidential library, so he's just going to keep it afterwards. So that is a big, shocking example. Do you plan to use the plane after you leave office? No, I don't, no. It would go directly to the library after I leave office. I wouldn't be using it now.

And just we've been talking about kind of foreign government transactions, but like the ballroom renovation, I wonder if I get your thoughts on that right, because that's been controversial for several reasons, but also because it has this $300 million price tag that's being funded by donating. from corporations and wealthy individuals, including American companies, right? And so why would that be a problem? Yeah, it just seems like, so they ripped down the East Wing, which is where the first lady's office was, and they're putting up this ballroom. The price tag was initially $300 million. I think I saw an article the other day that it might be up to $400 million.

They're not funding the construction with taxpayer dollars. It is private funds, but you're right. I mean, it just seems like another avenue where big businesses or rich individuals can cut Donald Trump a check and curry favor with him. And there's very little disclosure. There's no transparency. Like, we don't know how these deals are getting done. And it's just like the latest avenue for corruption. And I think the challenge for like everybody is just kind of keeping up with the many different ways you can buy this family off at this point. I'm a bit of a spontaneous traveler, and I don't always know where I'm going to be or how long I'm going to be there.

And that's where Aerolo comes in. An e-sim from Aerolo allows me to get internet coverage, whether I need it for a specific country, an entire region, or globally. It's easy to set up and I can top up as I go without having to swap out SIM cards. It's the perfect way for me to stay connected. Just download the Aeroa app. Pick your destination ESIM, including plan length and data amount, install, and you're connected the moment you land. No surprise roaming fees, no airport kiosks, or sketchy public Wi-Fi. Instead, just pay for the data you need.

Stream your playlist, scroll, text, navigate, and video call home, all without watching your phone bill explode. Plus, AeroLo works in over 200 destinations and is trusted by over 20 million travelers. So if you have an international trip, download the Aeroa app or visit AeroLo.com. That's A-I-R-A-L-O.com and use the code ROMSmart for 15% off your first ESIM. Terms apply. Is your home ready for the next big snowstorm? You can take action to help protect your home from extreme weather. Discover prevention tips that can help you be climate ready at keep it intact.com.

You have said, those two pardons, you have said that Trump's use of pardons are normalizing political correction. and I just wonder if you could elaborate on that for me and maybe if there are any examples that you find particularly illustrative. There's no explaining some of his biggest pardons on the merits. So a couple examples. So he recently pardoned the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernandez. This is an individual

who's convicted of conspiring to traffic, I think, 400 tons of cocaine into the United States. So we're pardoning this guy as Donald Trump's, has the U.S. military blowing up all these boats, off the coast of Venezuela, ostensibly to fight drug traffickers. Like, that just makes no sense. When the kingpin connected guy out of jail and killing the low-level guys, there was a pardon of a crypto-magnet billionaire named CZ.

He was somebody that, as I was told, I don't know him. I don't believe I've ever met him. But I've been told by a lot of support. He had a lot of support. And they said that what he did is not even. a crime. It wasn't a crime that he was persecuted by the Biden administration. And so I gave him a part at the request of a lot of very good people. His company is a company called Binance. That company pleaded guilty to knowingly facilitating payments to terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah,

Palestinian, Islamic jihad, the IRGC, Quds Force. And again, Binance was the other half of that deal we just talked about where the Amirati back fund used. the Trump stable coin, right? So clearly they're doing favors for Trump. So, like, none of this really tracks with a law and order presidency. And a lot of these, uh, pardons seem like they are tied into Trump getting paid, people around Trump getting paid, or, you know, sort of like donor interests. I want to ask you about, you know, some of the people around him in his administration. Uh, there's no shortage of commentary about who Trump has chosen to effectively run the country, people who might be expected, you know, in normal circumstances to investigate or prosecute

corruption or to take seriously their roles as independent arbiters. And I'm thinking about some of his cabinet picks, Pambom D, Pete Hegseth, Cash Patel, Christy Noam. They've been described as inexperienced, incompetent in some cases. And so what's your take on this? Like, is this a strategy on his part appointing people who kind of like owe him, owe him something? Yeah, I mean, I think Like, there's just no, again, like, Pete Hegsef was a weekend anchor on Fox News. He has no qualifications to be the Secretary of Defense beyond being kind of looking the part in Trump's view and being completely loyal to Donald Trump and owing his entire career to the Trump administration and thus, like, sort of pledging fealty.

Cash Patel, the FBI director, is the same. I mean, he was a podcaster before being named FBI director. I don't think you or I are qualified, Jamie, to be FBI director. Well, it sounds like you could. Yeah, who knew? I know. Like, I guess I got a reach for the stars. I'm kind of like aiming low.

The FBI normally is a job that you are appointed to for 10 years. It's pretty nonpartisan. Like, you know, honestly, it's almost all of the FBI directors in the U.S. have been Republicans or conservative. It's a very conservative organization. It's like a lot of like white guys in law enforcement that, you know, care about law and order. Cash Patel is not qualified in any way. way. He screwed up a bunch of stuff, but again, he's loyal to Trump. Pam Bondi is similar.

She's not seen as one of the brightest legal minds in our country. But again, they're all just like they will do what Trump says. And like Pam Bondi has disbanded the kleptocracy asset recovery initiative and the task force klepto capture, which were created to enforce Western sanctions against Russia. The administration has dissolved the FBI's foreign influence task force, dismantled the cryptocurrency and for. enforcement unit announced it would stop enforcing the Corporate Transparency Act, which was designed to stop illegal corporate financial activities. Like, what's left, I guess? What institutions or levers remain? I say this kind of insuriously. Like, obviously, there's still some

levers that remain, but that, like, could be, you know, a series of checks and balances here. No, you're right. I mean, it's like Pambani went and, like, started ringing a dinner bell, you know, to call in all the, you know, foreign spies and corrupt autocrats to come to D.C. and kind of grease their favorite officials. It is really troubling. Like, it is, they've just sort of seemingly given up on white collar crime. We have a very distributed kind of legal system, right? There's state-based charges. There's U.S. attorneys. Like, there's career people within the Department of Justice or U.S. law enforcement or the FBI. They can still, like, follow leads, bring cases. Like, are there for the right reasons. But it's really, really hard when the leadership from the top

are making these big picture decisions that kind of signals to the workforce, like, you know, don't go after the people Trump likes or else you could be fired. Look, there is this overarching irony here. Trump was elected because people saw him, or initially at least, as this kind of anti-establishment guy, right? A disruptor, someone who represented a break from these career politicians whose agendas are set by like a privileged 1%. And if this is such a blatant display of nepotism, of cronyism, bordering on, I think a lot of people would say kleptocracy, like, where is the outrage?

I just would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, you're right on your sort of analysis of the political, mood music that got us here. I mean, I think people felt like Washington was not delivering for them. They were frustrated. They kind of just wanted to burn the whole thing down. You know, that was kind of a sentiment in 2016. And, you know, because of for a lot of reasons, the pandemic, inflation, et cetera, by 2024, they were, they were angry all over again. And Trump was seen as the disruptor, the person who would come in at least, at least Trump hated the people they hated to. You know, the career politicians, the media.

the establishment. I think there is some outrage. I mean, there's outrage among Democrats, right? But there is just this challenge that we've been talking through today of following this stuff, like informing people of what's happening because it's complicated. Like, even if I try to like sit down to your average kind of swing voter or someone that, you know, checks into politics, like maybe the month before the election and try to explain, you know, MGX is an Emirati fund and they did an investment into finance and they use the stable coin. Like, you're people are just lost. Like, what are you talking about? You get that vibe with like one of those boards with all the strings that are like. Exactly. There's a lot of red string. But there have been

a couple like seminal moments that I think broke through like Qatar gifting Trump a plane. That one broke through. Taring down the East Wing, that one broke through. So Trump's numbers are a record low. I mean, there was an AP poll the other day that had him at 36 percent. His approval on the economy was at 31 percent. Like people, Americans feel like he is focused on the wrong things and not delivering for them to your answer the question of why isn't there more outrage unfortunately i think people feel like our system is so awash with money and broken that trump is like just kind of doing what they all do and not an aberration well yeah do they have a point yeah they have a point that our our the u.s political system and the amount of money that we spend it's insane and it is

right for corruption and it is not serving anyone well and we we need to fix it. I think Trump is, you know, an order of magnitude worse than anyone that came before him, but they're not wrong that our system is just broken. What are the consequences of what we have been describing today long term? Let me give you one example. So the United States and every other country, really, is in this race, mostly against China to see who can, you know, achieve AGI or get the most advanced artificial intelligence over the next several years. The United States has been winning that race almost solely because we have the most computer chips. Most of them were made by this company, Nvidia, and that's what you use to sort of like train

these AI models or use them to, you know, to run the models. Out of nowhere the other day, Donald Trump decided to allow Nvidia to sell highly advanced trips to China, not their like top of the line chip, but like the best of the last generation. And it was completely inexplicable. And what a lot of people think is happening here is the CEO of Invidia is one of those people you mentioned earlier who is funding the ballroom construction, who is making big donations to, you know, entities that Trump supports. And God knows what else, right? Like, we don't really know who is buying a several million dollars with a Trump coin or, you know, whatever it might be. And so in the long run, like, these corrupt dealings are going to lead to the United States facilitating the Chinese and, and, and, you know, in helping their efforts to catch up to us in this AI computing race. And there is no national security explanation for this decision. No one can justify it, but it's going to be hard to stop it because, you know, Trump has so much discretion as president. And that's just like a very concrete example, I think, of how corruption and double dealing in the administration is harming

U.S. national security and also, I think harming people around the world for Canada as well. Um, okay. I think that's probably a good place for us to leave it. Tommy, thank you so much for this. It was really great to have you on. Thank you for being here. And also, I'm sorry, our president is such an asshole to your country in particular. The whole, like, 51st state thing. It was not funny. It went on way too long. I'm glad he sort of stopped talking about it. But I want you guys to know that, like, the majority of the country down here finds it absurd and insulting and, like, it loves Canada and would never, are bothered by what's happening. And I just hope you guys know that. We appreciate that very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. That's all for today. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow. cbc.ca slash podcasts.