Front Burner - Uvalde massacre: What police did and didn’t do

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

More than a month after 19 students and two teachers were murdered in the deadliest school shooting in Texas history, questions about what happened during the 77 minutes prior to law enforcement entering the classroom the gunman was occupying are starting to be answered. The picture that is being painted of the police response by journalists and investigators is one of miscommunication, confusion and inaction. Who is to blame for what Texas Department of Public Safety director Steve McCraw has criticized as an “abject failure,” depends on who you ask. Today on Front Burner, as anger and scrutiny continues to grow among the families of the victims, politics reporter with The Texas Tribune, James Barragán, tells us about what is known about the police response so far and what’s left to uncover.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. It's been nearly a month now since the deadliest school shooting in Texas history. And almost daily, new and shocking information about the police response has been trickling out.

About what several law enforcement agencies did or didn't do in the more than an hour it took them to confront the gunman. And about information initially released that simply turned out not to be true. There's compelling evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at Robb Elementary was an abject failure and antithetical to everything we've learned over the last two decades since the Columbine massacre. There are people who deserve answers the most. And those are the families whose lives have been destroyed. And it is inexcusable that they may have suffered from any inaccurate information.

Today, as anger and scrutiny continues to grow, I'm speaking to James Berrigan, politics reporter with the Texas Tribune, about what we know so far. Hi, James. Thank you so much for being here. Hello. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here with you. So I know that you've been following this story since it first broke really closely. And I imagine this may be hard to sum up because of how much the narrative has shifted. But I wonder if we could start here. What did the state police initially say happened? What did the state police initially say happened? Well, in the beginning, the state police and state officials, including our governor, really touted the law enforcement response.

Our governor, Greg Abbott, said that the situation could have been worse if it hadn't been for the heroic actions of police and law enforcement agencies that responded to it. And it is a fact that because of their quick response, getting on the scene, being able to respond to the gunman and eliminate the gunman, they were able to save lives. And it was a very highly complimentary response to law enforcement actions in the very beginning, which, of course, were later found to be inaccurate. All right. So let's go through some of those inaccuracies. Now, what do we know about that initial claim that the gunman had engaged with an officer before entering the school? Well, even before his entry into the school, the law enforcement, the state police said that there had been a school district police officer who saw the shooter, tried to, quote unquote, engage him.

They didn't really explain what that meant. He went towards the west side of the campus, which is a back door. But as he was approaching, as the governor mentioned earlier, there was a brave, consolidated independent school district resource officer that approached him, engaged him. And at that time, there was not, gunfire was not exchanged, but the subject was able to make it into the school. They also said that a teacher had left a propped door open, one of these back doors to the school, and they said that that was the way that the gunman had entered the school. And then later, both of those statements were

found to be inaccurate. There never was a school district police officer who quote unquote engaged this gunman. That person did not exist. It did not happen. And similarly, with the school teacher who had been purported to prop open the door, she had propped open the door, but then had realized what was happening and closed the door behind her before going back to her classroom. So then that was also proven to be inaccurate. Those are two big things to get wrong in the beginning. And obviously now it seems to the public that they're changing their stories. You know, you mentioned the teacher who had propped the door open and then shut it. What do we know now about how the gunman did get into the school?

to prop the door open and then shut it. What do we know now about how the gunman did get into the school? What we know now from DPS officials clarifying it, from surveillance footage, is that there was a teacher who had propped the door open. She then realized what was happening, went immediately to close the door and closed the door behind her. And if you go and see her lawyer statements to the newspaper in san antonio she specifically had remembered closing that video surveillance showed that that happened however that door did not lock um and that is one of the big issues that i think investigators are going to be looking at because that door did not lock obviously that gave the gunman an entryway into the school that he should not have had. So he did use that same door, but the teacher had closed it. But because of this, let's call it a

lock failure, he was still able to enter the school through that door. Okay, wow. And you talked about how the initial reports of police engaging with the shooter were not true. But what do we know about when police first arrived on scene? Well, we know that they arrived relatively quickly. I mean, the call came out and I think within minutes of the gunmen entering the school, police officers were there, including the school district police chief, Pete Arredondo, and the Uvalde Police Department. That's the city police department. And within minutes, they were inside the hallway where the gunman had barricaded himself up, essentially,

in some of the classrooms. And just for clarity, who responded, right? Because I do understand that there were several different law enforcement agencies on site that day. And like, who responded? And what do we know about in what order and when they showed up? Yeah, well, the initial response obviously would come from Uvalde Police, that's the city police department, and from the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police. We have school district police that's the city police department, and from the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police. We have school district police that's specifically responsible for school public safety, let's say. And so those were, to the best of my knowledge, the first two that responded. But we also know that there were county sheriffs, that there were state troopers from the Department

of Public Safety, and that eventually there were also border patrol agents who were nearby and also came to the scene. So we know that there was at least five agencies that responded to this. Okay, so we've got these five agencies that responded, and you mentioned before the chief of the Uvalde School District Police, Pete Arredondo. His account of what happened has really been called into question. And one of the things initially reported was that officers didn't break into the classroom because they were waiting for the doors to be unlocked. And what did Arredondo first tell you about access to classrooms 111 and 112? He told us that he arrived at the scene and entered through the northeast entrance of the campus, made his way to the wing of the school where the shooting was happening, and told us that

they had made an initial attempt to open the door. So that was his initial account. Now that we've seen DPS officials release the video, we can say pretty clearly that there was no actual attempt to open the door. There was no turn of a doorknob. There was no yanking of a door to try to get that door open. What we do see is that there is an initial approach by Arredondo's group in the south part of the hallway and by another Uvalde PD group from the north side of the hallway, sort of making an approach to the doors, but then they get sprayed by gunfire and immediately retreat to their end of the hallways. After that, there is no further attempt to open the door for the more than an hour that they waited to actually breach the doors and kill the gunman. Why didn't they go in sooner? Like has Arredondo said

why they were out in this hallway for, for nearly an hour? So Arredondo is the police chief of the school district. And so, he has an understanding of how the schools are supposed to work. In his mind, he told us that he thought the doors were locked. 4112, but doors adjacent to that, that were locked. You cannot see that in the footage that has been released to some news outlets. That is not something that you can see. But we are told by law enforcement officials and also by Pete Arredondo that he was trying adjacent doors, which were indeed locked. He has also told us that once he realized that the doors were locked, he called on his cell phone to police dispatch and said he needed snipers, tactical gear, extrication tool, and keys to try to open the door. He made that call for those items to try to respond to the situation. The keys come at some point, and again, you cannot see this in the video, but law enforcement officials have confirmed this to us that he was trying to open the door, but see that the gunman walks in and out of rooms 111 and 112 a couple

of times, which really raises the question about whether the doors to those classrooms were ever closed, a point that now DPS officials have really stressed and said, we are not sure that those doors were ever locked, which really contradicts Arredondo's initial account. But because nobody and you can see this in the video, nobody ever really tried to open those doors. They wouldn't have known and were operating under the assumption that the doors were indeed locked. You know, as you mentioned, there were still four other law enforcement, I guess, units, what would you call them that responded? So like, where are they? Like, are they not trying to open this door or frankly, just break the door down, I guess? So there's contradicting accounts from the state police and from Pete Arredondo.

But experts that we have talked to and experts that have testified to lawmaker panels have said that there's no doubt law enforcement are trained to run into that situation, not to wait for anything, but to immediately engage the shooter as quickly as possible. And I have said that it was an abject failure of law enforcement response. Three minutes after the subject entered the West building, there was sufficient number of armed officers wearing body armor to isolate, distract and neutralize the subject. body armor to isolate, distract, and neutralize the subject. The only thing stopping a hallway of dedicated officers from ending room 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander, who decided to

place the lives of officers before the lives of children. The issue with Arredondo is that he was saying he wasn't the incident commander, and DPS is saying he was the incident commander. Now, the obvious question is, well, if he didn't have a radio, he never identified himself as an incident commander. He's thinking of himself as the first responder responding to the situation. Why didn't another agency take over? Especially when you take into account that the state police, DPS, and border patrol were also on site. And DPS is one of the most highly funded agencies that the state of Texas has. So it really begs the question of why didn't they act? And in the surveillance

footage that we see in the body cam transcripts that have been released to us, we see that there are DPS agents saying we ought to go in, why don't we go in? And DPS agents are going in and out of the hallway and commenting that this is more than sort of a hostage situation, that they should be engaging the shooter, but they never take that action. Lawmakers asked Steve McCraw, the leader of the Department of Public Safety, why didn't they just do that? McCraw's response was that if you start disobeying the incident commander, then that can create a lot of chaos. But it goes back to that question about who is the incident commander. And it's very, very clear from the body cam transcripts from the footage that there was at least some confusion about who was in charge. And that led to the delay

in breaching the classroom. Right? Because Irredondo, he says he wasn't the incident commander. He's trying to, or he's painted himself more as a first responder. He says he didn't even have a radio. That's right. How can he be the incident commander if he's got no way to communicate with the other people around him? He's got no way to communicate with folks outside of the building so that he can relay that information or relay information to them. And if you look at the way that the active shooter response is, I mean, the first police responder and the highest ranking really is supposed to set up that incident command and say, I'm going to take charge. I will be the incident commander. I'll be relaying instructions and orders. Arredondo did not do that. And he's now being heavily criticized for it. When he spoke to us, Arredondo told us that he purposefully left behind his police and campus radio because he said they would be too difficult for him to carry

if he was trying to quickly respond to the gunman. From Arredondo's perspective, he's saying, I was the first responder. I wasn't the guy in charge. And how could I be the guy in charge if I didn't even have a radio and couldn't issue any orders, didn't know what was going on outside? And he goes further to say exactly the question that you're saying. If they knew that I was incapacitated and didn't have a radio, why didn't somebody else take charge? In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I help you and your partner create a financial vision

together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Did they have the, I guess, regardless of whether or not the door was locked, did they have the equipment to break down the door and go in? That has been one of the most stunning revelations as more information has come to the surface. The Department of Public Safety has told lawmakers that there was indeed tactical gear available and that there were rifles available for law enforcement to engage the gunmen within minutes of the starting of the shooting. We, through our sources, have also confirmed that there was tactical gear, starting with the first ballistic shield, which came 58 minutes before they actually breached the classroom, to up to four ballistic shields,

the last of which came 30 minutes before they actually breached the classroom. And there was this thing that we call a hooligan bar or a halogen bar, which is a tool that firefighters used to pry open doors, which was on scene. It's unclear why that halogen bar didn't make it into the hallway where the classrooms were, but it never made its way into it within the first minutes of the shooting response, which I think probably could have made a difference. And I think it goes to the whole conversation of the lack of communication there was, the lack of a clear incident command, that police officers in the hallway were not aware that this extrication tool was available

to them within minutes after the police had called for it. The other thing is that Arredondo thought that the doors were locked. He gets two sets of keys, as he's told us, none of which work. But then another group on the other side of the hallway does get a master key. And once they get a master key that works, they're the ones that enter the classroom, breach the classroom and kill the gunman. But it seems that everybody was waiting for the keys. And it's unclear why, because they almost immediately had this elegant bar. These revelations that they had officers from five different agencies, they had the equipment that they would have needed to go in and they had the policy, right?

The policy that they were directed to go in and stop the shooter, like this, this must be incredibly difficult for the parents of those kids to hear. Have you been able to speak to any of them about this? We spoke to Javier Casadas, the father of Jackie Casadas, who died inside one of those classrooms. And you can see that he is visibly upset by the law enforcement response. And we're familiar, at least the house away, you know. And we heard the shots, you know. But they're just trying to go back and let's do our job. But their job is for us to go in and save lives, not wait. I honestly think that

a lot more could have been prevented prepared that i didn't see no preparedness at all i mean they as soon as they heard that gunshot they should have rushed in he does not trust anything that law enforcement officials or state officials are saying. He mentioned the inaccurate information that they released within days, which painted, in his words, a very rosy picture of the law enforcement response. So there is a lack of trust with law enforcement officials from the parents. They want answers. They want accountability. Some of them have called for the school district police chief, Pete Arredondo, to be fired from his position. He's now been placed on the leave of absence. And in the case of Javier Casares, he said that he won't believe anything they say. And he wants the video from the body cams released so that he can see it for himself and determine what their actions were.

so that he can see it for himself and determine what their actions were. Are those videos going to be released? And have you been able to, as a journalist, get the information that you feel like you need to get here? Or are you having a hard time doing that? We are having a very hard time accessing the video from an official perspective. We have very talented journalists in our newsrooms who have gained access to some of the surveillance footage, to some of the transcripts of the body cameras. And so that's how we and other news outlets here in Texas have been able to tell the stories that we have been telling, which have been shedding light on the situation.

However, the Department of Public Safety, the Uvalde County District Attorney, they have refused to release publicly the body cam video from their officers, the Uvalde PD's body cam, surveillance footage from the school. And those things are going to be necessary, I think, for the public to have any kind of trust that what law enforcement and state officials are saying is true, just because of the initial missteps and inaccurate information. However, we have this problem here that we have in Texas in our open records law. There's this thing that we call the dead suspect loophole. That refers to a part of the Texas open records law, where if the suspect is never prosecuted and convicted, then they do not have to release records from the incident. And

that is of course the instance here, uh, because the suspect, uh, was killed by law enforcement. And, you know, our fear, I think the public's fear is that law enforcement agencies, the prosecutors will use that loophole to withhold that information from the public, even though it is, it's vastly needed. Investigators right now are saying they need to withhold that because, you know, it could impact their investigation and they don't want it to have a negative impact on the investigation. But it's clear that lawmakers want to see it. It's clear that the families of the victims want to see it. They want to see for themselves what the law enforcement response was. We have an objective account of what happened that day through surveillance footage from the

schools, through body cameras, which would not be tainted by anybody, right? And people can tell by themselves, you know, whether people did the things that they said they did, or whether they are lying about what they said they did. And it is unclear if those videos of that objective account is going to be released to the public. before we go today i want to put this all in the context of attempts by the state of texas to prevent school shootings so so back in 2019, Texas introduced legislation to, quote, harden schools after a school shooting in Santa Fe. But how well did those hardening measures work in Uvalde? This is one of the greatest frustrations for gun control advocates in the state

because Texas is a very gun friendly state. As a matter of fact, in 2021, the state allowed people to legally carry handguns without license or training if they were otherwise legally allowed to have a firearm. So we've made it very, very easy for people to have guns in the state. Even as we've seen major mass shootings in the last five years that lawmakers have tried to respond to in the exact way that you just described by, quote unquote, hardening schools. That means making infrastructure that would make it harder for a shooter to enter and cause the kind of carnage that we just saw at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. So one of the big questions is, is this even really working? And I think that's really what gun control advocates are saying. We're not tackling the issue head on by tackling access to guns. We are trying to go around it by hardening these schools. And if you look at the Santa Fe high school shooting, that campus has been hardened since the shooting.

And people point to it as one of the campuses that has, you know, gotten a huge makeover to prevent these kinds of shootings. Uvalde is in a low income part of the state. It's a rural part of the state. A lot of people, I think, in Texas probably didn't even know where Uvalde is in a low income part of the state. It's a rural part of the state. A lot of people, I think, in Texas probably didn't even know where Uvalde was. And so the resources are not the same as they were in the Santa Fe area. And so there are questions about this hardening, if it works at all. And then if the hardening resources are coming to these schools that are in more low income areas and whether that's working. But I think it also has to be said, you know, some of this hardening or law enforcement response, which is another thing that we've,

as a state, have turned to as a response to these mass shootings, that has happened in Uvalde. I mean, the Uvalde Independent School District was trained in recent months for how to respond to a mass shooting. And yet here we are with questions about the response. So I think there is clearly a sense of frustration among gun control advocates and also among Texans in general. James, thank you. Thank you so much for this. Yeah, thank you for having me. All right. So before we go today, I want to bring you a quick follow up to one of our episodes last week. On Thursday, we talked about the rising tide of anti-LGBTQ sentiment in the U.S. and Canada,

and especially the violent threats being directed at Pride events. Our friend and colleague, Jonathan Mompetit, has really dug into instances of hate in Canada. He's looked at over half a dozen libraries that have been targeted for hosting drag storytelling events. Performers and staff have been getting inundated online and by phone with threats and homophobic slurs. Jonathan was able to trace some hateful posts and comments back to former and aspiring People's Party of Canada candidates and accounts linked to the Ottawa convoy protests. I highly recommend you check out his piece on this. You can find it on his Twitter or on cbc.ca.

But that's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.