Front Burner - Voices from Gaza under ‘complete siege’

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

After Hamas’ attack on Israel, Israeli officials announced a full siege of Gaza, cutting off all supplies, including water, electricity and food. Intense missile attacks continue to hit the territory. Today, three people who call Gaza home tell us how they’re coping. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Damon Fairless. What people don't know about the concept of shelters is that it doesn't really exist in Gaza. I mean, people barely have homes.

So shelters, that's not an option. Gaza's worst fears at the moment is the sun setting, basically. Because once the sun sets and the night comes, things start to get really aggressive aggressive and aggressive is an understatement to be honest. It's been five days since Israel declared war on Hamas, the militant organization responsible for Saturday's attack on Israel that killed at least 1,200 people, the majority of them civilians. The response from Israel was immediate. Since Sunday, Israel's been bombing buildings in Gaza, sometimes flattening entire blocks it says are linked to Hamas, which has governed the territory since it was elected in 2006. Authorities in Gaza say more than 1,100 people there have been killed. On Monday, Israel announced a full siege, cutting off all supplies including water, electricity, and food.

All of which puts Gaza's civilian population in extreme danger. Parts of Gaza are some of the most densely populated areas on the planet. More than 2 million people crowded into a strip of land about 40 kilometers long and 10 kilometers wide. There are only two crossings through which people can leave, one into Egypt, which Israel has bombed, and one now completely closed into Israel. Living through all this are three people you're going to hear from today, starting with Najla Shawa. She works with Oxfam. We spoke with Najla back in 2021 as she was living through a different set of Israeli missile strikes following a Hamas attack.

Najla, last time you were on the show, you told us about your daughters. Can I ask, how are they doing? I guess the first day or two, they were in total, total panic. The most terrifying, like, maybe points of time, like when we evacuated the night before last, and, like, just trying to basically carry them and put them in the cars in the middle of the night at, like, 1.30 a.m., where we had to literally just run. So what happened when you had to evacuate? What happened exactly?

We had the neighbors screaming from the building across from us. And later, so we saw people, like we heard people in the streets screaming. And then we had a microphone saying, just leave the building, leave the building now, evacuate. And then everyone was just on the street. So we were just, we were 22 people at the time because their friends and relatives

left their areas and came to our area we were so many people and we was so hard to coordinate and like put everyone like you know in the car and just where are we going and are we just going to drive in the middle of the night in the middle of the bombing so we ended up like splitting we ended up going to a restaurant uh with a neighbor who who owns that place so he's like just go you know let's just drive away from the area and then we went to that place my daughters were barefoot you know we didn't have a second to to do anything just trying just to put them in the car and take our kind of doc, you know, our bag of documents. And we stayed until seven.

We came back and then we found a lot of windows broken. So they're still broken. Of course, there's no way to fix them. So, yeah. This is back to, you went back to your home and the windows are blown out? Yeah. You're providing shelter for people whose homes have been destroyed. I just want to know what their lives are like.

What are you doing to survive together we are cooking like what like now that's the third day i think together yes and um so we have like we were cooking together we're just you know whatever we have in the we managed to replenish today uh some items, so I'm kind of relieved. Like some canned food. We have enough bread for at least, hopefully, two, three days. We have managed to get the water, although we were calling everyone, all the water vendors, and they were not answering. So we just found one by coincidence in the street, so managed to refill a tank. So this has been like a lot of work to try and manage things in the household, you know,

making sure that kids are okay, we were fed. You know, it was a good day. Very good is not a right word, but it was manageable. What's the state of electricity? I understand one of the big generators went down recently. Yeah, yeah. Are you charging devices? What's the state of that?

Yeah, we have solar. And so I'm just praying that they won't get broken. We have solar panels because since, you know, 15 years ago, it doesn't have proper electricity. So anyway, we depend on it as an alternative source. So now we just need to rationalize because we can't consume a lot of battery electricity at night. We can do lighting and internet. We don't turn on even TVs because it's too risky.

And we have the refrigerator during the sunlight. So it's not too bad. I'm curious where you're expecting or hoping to get food from as the stuff that you have runs out. I don't know. It's too much to think. I'm glad I have what I have now. We don't know if we're going to be in the same place tomorrow or an hour or where. There's so many events that are happening.

A moment of just kind of lying you know, lying down is an achievement. Yeah. I wonder if you're okay with it. I want to return to your daughters. So how old are they? And I'm thinking my own daughter here, but I'm just wondering how they're coping. I hope your daughter would not ever experience anything like that. They are coping. The first maybe day or two was very hard. Since we had our friends or the refugees,

I would call them, in the house, it's been good because they are playing with them. They are making new friends. There are other kids there? Yeah, they have kids and with different ages. So it's a blessing. Really, it's a blessing. And because one of them had a daughter and he had a son who we all knew from before. And we know the mother, but the rest we don't know and we haven't met before.

So, but they're just relatives of, you know, those who we know. So there are different ages and they are playing together and everything. Now they, in the middle of the night, for example, when they are asleep and there is bombing, I feel they have been better than before. So because there's so many airstrikes that they've experienced, I think they have seen that, okay, it's not our house. You know, it's massive, it's scary, but we're fine.

I don't want to say we are better because I tell you, for one hour I'm very good another hour i'm a total mess and and so we're just holding up together um and uh and the same with the with the kids we're just you know reading stories at night uh you know playing some music on the on the mobile phone trying to do everything. And we do shifts in when we sleep. Not all of us sleep together any at the same time. Me and another mother, for example, now we're establishing some routine. So, yeah.

Yeah, they're terrified. What can I tell you? I mean, what are you telling your children about what's happening? What's their understanding of what's happening right now? You know, we try not to explain when we don't need to explain we are explaining however because i mean they are asking and they're not stupid and they need to understand so i mean who's hitting that no this is israel uh what is this sound okay this is palestinian rockets to israel and um of, I mean, as naturally,

they're living under occupation and everything we say is like, Mama, why can't we travel? Mama, why don't we do this? Mama, why is this? It's because of Israel. So there's like, you know, they totally know more than they should.

It might be an impossible question to answer, and in fact I feel a little awkward asking you this, but have you talked as a family about what to do next? Is there any even medium-term planning you can do my husband is by the way a u.s citizen is he and he's not yeah and he's not been uh you know given the option of course he's in gaza given the option i mean to leave

so yeah but anyway i was asking him like oh by the way did the embassy call you i was like no no it was just uh what some count or something but there's no a message you know some caution or don't go here or don't go it's not like evacuation so anyway uh and it's like even if they know we're not leaving you know like i know you're not i know we're not leaving, you know, like, I know, you know, I know we're not leaving. So we are both stubborn and we don't want to leave. I don't know. For some times, I, for some moments, I ask him and he's like, I think we are. I hope we don't regret what we are. So your plan is to stay?

To stay. I mean, now for sure. I mean, I'm not going to run to be a refugee in Egypt. I think it's, no, it's humiliating. And I want to stay home. I'm saying what I'm saying, but I might, of course, under like severe pressure, I might be running around you know and taking shelter somewhere I'm not going to remind you of this if you change

your mind no no I understand nobody knows you yeah I'm hoping we can stay in touch and get updates over the next little bit but mostly I hope you

and your family continue to stay safe thank you in the dragon's den a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Najla talked a lot about how hard it is to get access to basic needs right now because of the blockade. On Tuesday, humanitarian organizations

called for international aid for the region, and some are asking for corridors to allow for food, fuel, water, and medical supplies to go in. Hospitals are overwhelmed with the wounded right now. Mohamed Abu Mugaisib works with Doctors Without Borders in Gaza. He's been scrambling to get dwindling supplies to hospitals where families are waiting in long lines for their loved ones to receive emergency surgeries and where exhausted hospital staff are working around the clock. He worries that with power running low, things will only get worse. Already the power plan stopped. So now all the hospitals are running on the generators and, you know, generators need fuel

and fuel is not entering. So the stock that the hospitals have for fuel is enough for a few days ولم يتحول المياه إلى المياه. لذا، المستوى الذي يحتوي على المياه في المستوى يكفي لبعض الأيام. على سبيل المثال، المستوى الرئيسي في غازا وهو المستوى الرئيسي لشفا يكفي لبعض الأيام. لا أريد أن أتخيل ما سيحدث. أعتقد أنه سيكسر نظام الصحة. I don't want to imagine what will happen. I think the health system will collapse. I mean, every department will collapse.

I mean, you have the surgery, intensive care units, the neonatology department, babies are in incubators. I mean, it's a disaster. It really will be a medical disaster. Mohamed has been in Gaza working with Doctors Without Borders for over 20 years. He says the intensity of the latest airstrikes is worse than anything he's seen before. I mean, I cannot compare it really with, I mean, the work is really challenging here, full of risk. There is no security. Movement is not secured.

movement is not secured. I mean bombarding every 10 minutes imagine in addition that you know you need as well to protect your family. I mean if I say to you no no I'm not worried no no I'm totally worried about my life or my family I'm actually sheltering and using MSF office when I'm staying with my family here. We are stressed of course, and you know the stress. So I think all of it will be a record in my brain about all of this will be again flashbacks coming. And I think all the scenes are very difficult. I mean bombing the ambulances, the people who are displaced from their homes, you just stand on the street and you can see hundreds of people walking with their bags, kids, they are moving from

neighborhood to another neighborhood for safety. This will stay in my memory. We also heard from someone else who had to leave their home because of the bombings. Mahemur Abusada is a political science professor at Al-Azhar University in Gaza. He spoke with us on Tuesday, soon after the area around him was bombed. Bombing was so massive, so intensive that shook even the building where I live, which is, as I mentioned to you, not very far away from the area that was bombed. And unfortunately, I had to evacuate my apartment today. We were instructed by the Israelis also that the area where I live will probably be targeted tonight. So we have, my family and myself had to evacuate. Mahemur is staying at his brother's place. His family's had to split up. They're sheltering in two different homes. People very much are trapped. People are trapped between a very thin area between east of Gaza and

west of Gaza. And even Israel also bombed the only crossing between Gaza and Egypt, which even making things impossible for the Palestinian civilians who wants to leave. You said earlier that you were given warning that the area that you live in, where your flat is, was going to be bombed. How is the Israeli government giving these warnings to people in Gaza? Well, that is a very good question. The spokesperson for the Israeli army has a Facebook page, and usually the Israelis post on Facebook and other social media

where they are going to bomb. So the area that was bombed yesterday, that the Israelis put a map of the Gaza City, and they designated the area that would be bombed with a red line. Okay. They're doing the same thing to another neighborhood here in Gaza. So this is one of the ways that Israel communicate what it's going to do with the civilian population.

Another way is by calling people. Sometimes they do call people on their mobiles and tell them to evacuate and tell their neighbors within the same neighborhood also to evacuate. And do you have a sense, I mean, as I'm talking to you, I'm aware we're talking on WhatsApp. It's dependent on networks. Do you have any sense of how long this is, you know, communication to the outside world, so to speak, is going to last for you? To be honest with you, I don't know, because one thing I know that Israel bombed yesterday, the headquarter of the Palestine

or the Gaza telecommunication company, which is called Paltil. Their headquarters and their offices in Gaza City were bombed. I don't know if the Israelis are going to go after the mobile stations here in the Gaza Strip, which would disconnect people from each other. I know a private internet company is out of service from day one because of the bombing. So that depends on the intensity and the bombing that the Israelis are going to carry on with. And I think we are expecting that the worst hasn't come yet. And how much time are people getting in terms of these warnings? Are you given a window of when these will occur, when the attacks will occur? It depends.

If a building is designated for bombing, they usually give no more than 10, 15 minutes to evacuate. But if they are talking about bombing of a whole neighborhood like they did yesterday, they usually give a few hours for people to evacuate and move. They usually give a few hours for people to evacuate and move. But if they want to kill someone or if there is a wanted person that they want to kill or bomb, they usually do not call in advance or they do not even send any piece of information in advance. Because if one person is wanted, they very much bomb the area without prior warning. One person is wanted, they very much bomb the area without prior warning. So that kind of leads me to my next question, which is that these attacks on Gaza justified by Israel as attempts to take out places where Hamas militants are thought to be operating out of. Given how densely populated the area is, is it possible even to precisely target Hamas

without harming civilians? Is that even a possibility? Well, what I'm going to tell you with regard to this question is what was said by the Israeli spokesperson. The spokesperson for the Israeli army said that the Israeli army bombed the area called Rimel area in Gaza City, one of the most richest areas in Gaza City. And he said, because this is going to put more pressure on Hamas, as if those areas are Hamas people. Israel is very much imposing collective punishment on the Palestinian middle class, on the Palestinian semi-rich people, the business community, in a way to put more pressure on Hamas.

And so do you think that that's a tactical decision then? That's a war crime. That is a war crime. Whether that is tactical or not, I don't know. But that is definitely a war crime, killing and targeting civilian people, civilian infrastructure, and a whole civilian neighborhood. I know that in the age of social media, images of the destruction that was inflicted on Gaza yesterday is seen all over the world. But unfortunately, the world is not paying enough attention to what is happening to the Palestinians. And that's what makes the Palestinians desperate and angry about the whole thing. So no doubt many groups, including people in the UN, will be investigating what constitutes a war crime on both sides as this situation continues.

I was looking briefly before we talked, I was looking quickly at your CV online, and I saw in your work, in your professional work, you're someone who you've followed and written about Hamas in your work. So did the attack that came out on Saturday in Israel, did that come as a surprise to you? In its intensity, yes. We have always thought that Hamas might go and kidnap Israeli soldiers like they did back in 2006 when they took the tunnel under the border between Gaza and Israel and ambushed an Israeli military base and took one soldier as a hostage and they held him for five years in Gaza and they exchanged him later for about more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners. We have always thought something like that is going to happen, but what we saw on Saturday morning is just unbelievable, unimaginable.

It did not cross my mind for a second. Mohamed, you've got a very difficult next few days, weeks ahead of you. What's your plan for the next few days? Well, I hope that there is someone sober and rational in the international community who will intervene and impose a ceasefire on both sides,

on Israel and Hamas, and restore calm between both parties, that that would be my optimal dream. I mean, definitely, I don't want this bloodshed to continue. But it seems to me that unfortunately, yes, this conflict is just going to rage on and on from both sides. And we're hoping for the best now. Whether I will be able to make it, whether my family will be able to

survive it, I don't even know whether we're going to survive it until tomorrow or not. Bad things are happening here, my friend. That's all for today. I'm Damon Fairless. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. We'll talk to you tomorrow.