Front Burner - Wagner Group: Putin’s ‘shadow private army’

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

Wagner Group is a private army that's been violently advancing Russian interests internationally – but in the shadows – for years. Now as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has stalled, the fighters-for-hire have taken centre stage to fight on Russia’s side. The mercenaries have been involved in some of the bloodiest battles of the entire war. Mary Ilyushina is a reporter covering Russia for the Washington Post. Today on Front Burner, she joins guest host Jodie Martinson to explain the evolution, and growing influence, of the Wagner Group in Russia and other parts of the world.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jodie Martinsoninson sitting in for Jamie Poisson. That's Ride of the Valkyries. It's a total battle cry of a song.

You probably recognize it from movies like Apocalypse Now. It was written by a famous German composer called Wagner, which also happens to be the name of the notorious Russian mercenaries that we'll be talking about today. The head of the Wagner Group, he is an admirer of this composer, Wagner. And that is how the group acquired its name. Wagner Group is a private army. It's been violently advancing Russian interests internationally, but in the shadows for years. Now, as Russia's invasion of Ukraine has stalled, the fighters for hire have come out

of the shadows to fight for Russia in Ukraine, and they have been involved in some of the bloodiest battles of the entire war. For months now, the city of Bakhmut has been the epicenter of the war in Ukraine. The battle there has been one been the epicenter of the war in Ukraine. The battle there has been one of the most brutal of the conflict, with high numbers of casualties on both sides. The leader of the Wagner group now is a man called Yevgeny Prigozhin. And Prigozhin has said in the last couple of weeks, he says, we're using Bakhmut as a meat grinder to pull in Ukrainian troops and kill them.

Mary Ilyushina is a reporter covering Russia for The Washington Post, and she's here with me now to explain the evolution and growing influence of the Wagner Group in Russia. Hi, Mary. Great to have you here. Hey, thanks for having me. So let's start at the beginning. When was the Wagner Group founded? So the Wagner Group originates in 2014. It was led by a man called Dmitry Utkin, who was a officer with a unit of special forces of Russian military intelligence group, DRU. The man who gave the group its name is Dmitry Utkin. He's reported to have a high regard for

the Third Reich. And Wagner, after all, was one of Hitler's favorite composers. And they essentially assembled a lot of war veterans who were experienced professional soldiers. And, you know, they went through several names, but the group essentially became the Wagner Group, as we know now. And they got their start actually in Ukraine, in the Luhansk region in eastern Ukraine. That was the same year when Russia annexed Crimea. And that also was the year when long brewing conflict in eastern Ukraine kicked off and it really never ended. But then it obviously escalated last year when Russia launched a full scale invasion.

And what are they? What is the Wagner Group? Wagner Group is a mercenary group. It consists of sort of more elite leadership. It used to be a very elite unit, you know, with like two, three thousand people. They fought in Ukraine and in Syria, helping the Russian forces help government. They were in Africa all over the place. And now it's essentially like a shadow private army that is much, much bigger than it used to be because they've recruited a lot of people to fight in Ukraine. And essentially it's a parallel force to the regular Russian army,

even though mercenary service is illegal in Russia. So they operate in sort of this really, really gray area. Okay, so all of the weapons and supplies that they need to fight a war, but not connected directly to the accountability mechanisms of a government. So what kind of tactics can they use then? Oh, they can do really whatever they want. They are quite known for being very brutal. Even in the days of the Syrian war, there were videos emerging how Wagner fighters deal with people they don't like. There was a Syrian man that they brutally murdered. They also don't tolerate deserters.

They don't tolerate people who abuse drugs and alcohol, as they say. That's kind of written in their memo that you can't be an addict and you have to abide by a lot of rules that Wagner sets for their employees. And I mean, they call them for employees because, you know, they do sign contracts, even though those contracts don't really hold because there's no legal entity. And in Syria, for example, they were the ones doing the on the ground fighting because the Russian forces intervened in a Syrian conflict in 2015 using its air force. But officially, there were no like ground troops operating. But Wagner was doing that. It was them and that gave Russia

this plausible deniability, you know, by saying that, you know, look, we're just helping Assad's government per official request, they would just send our planes in. But in reality, what they did is Wagner fought on behalf of Russia, but it allowed the defense ministry to hide a lot of the losses and to kind of spare the regular troops from being killed on the ground in Syria while they were achieving the goals that they actually wanted to achieve. So that became very convenient and they learned that this can be used in a lot of places. So that's how it ended up in Africa. And that's also partially why they ended up in Ukraine. The leader now of Wagner Group is Russian oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin. What do we know about him and his backstory? So Prigozhin is quite a fascinating figure. He is from St. Petersburg. That's the

hometown of Vladimir Putin as well. He is a former convict. He served about a decade in the 1980s for theft, robbery, fraud, and, you know, a bunch of charges. So he was kind of a petty criminal when he began. But when he got out of prison, it was the 1990s. The U.S. started to collapse. There was complete chaos and freedom to do whatever you wanted because there was no real structural control. And a lot of people who established links to the criminal world in the prison actually rose to the ranks pretty quickly once they got out. So he started this catering business in St. Petersburg. I think it was a hot dog stand. That was his first business. And he kind of had this, you know, double,

again, like he has now, he has a legitimate business. He has like a catering company that does provide like food for the defensive industry or in some schools. But that also those restaurants were the hotspots for all like criminals in St. Petersburg and the bigger sort of area of the city. Wow. So he kind of allowed this to become a joint for, you know, multiple ventures. And the legend says that his business grew pretty significantly. He owned a lot of restaurants in St. Petersburg. Some of them are really prestigious and luxe places. And that Vladimir Putin, you know, ended up hosting

four leaders in one of those restaurants. And he apparently saw Prigozhin. Prigozhin decided to serve Putin personally, not to send a waiter. And that kind of like impressed Putin a lot. And he, you know, decided to kind of allow him enter his inner circle. And that's how he got access to the Kremlin. And we're talking foreign leaders like President George Bush. Yes, it was. I think it was actually the U.S. president meeting Putin for the first time in St. Petersburg. And Prokoshen was there catering for them. Until Ukraine, Prokoshen preferred the shadows. A caterer, when President Bush visited Russia in 2006, he would soon ascend into power circles. Kremlin contracts made him very wealthy, giving him connections to the highest power. So from jail to hot dog stand to caterer to where he is now, leader of the mercenary.

Yes, pretty fascinating. He is a very vicious, brutal man who heads the most important mercenary organization operating out of Russia. He hands out sledgehammers to his fighters, boasts of their utility against prisoners. Bergosian also sent EU legislators a bloodied sledgehammer after they demanded his group be placed on a terrorism list. So one of our producers spoke with a Nigeria-based correspondent

named Philip Obagi Jr. And he works for the Daily Beast. And he's covered Wagner's activity in Africa. He talked about how former African rebels have been lured into signing up with Wagner Group. It's become very difficult for some of these rebels because the Russians have somehow exerted control in mining communities. So many of them see this incentive by the Russians as an opportunity to live better lives. You know, having to receive in the region of $1,000 every month, having the chance to be trained by foreigners, in this case Russians, and also an opportunity to travel to Europe sounds huge for some of them. So you can always think of a high number of people who will be very interested in grabbing such opportunities.

But also a lot of people, a lot of these former rebels who have signed up with Wagner have come to realize that some of these promises, you know, are just audio, so to speak. You know, just been made but not kept. Philip also said that Africa has been a training ground for Wagner's brutality in Ukraine, especially in Central African Republic. Can you tell me a bit more about what the paramilitary has been doing there, especially relating to mining projects? Yeah, of course. So Wagner is quite prominent in the Central African Republic, you know, it's a very middle rich country. And the Prigozhin did a lot to enter the country and, you know, with the government's permission to use this to his advantage and get a lot of money out of CER. And it's a really interesting case study because Wagner has, you know, both sort of non-military presses there. They have their own radio stations. They're promoting, you know, Russian saviors coming to help the CER because, you know, it's like in a very tumultuous times and there's a lot of internal infighting. So they're bringing peace, like peacekeeping

mission. You know, they call themselves like peacekeepers. But at the same time, they've been accused of massacres, mass murder, robbery of, you know, exploiting mines in violation of sort of any kind of international agreements. So how can you ethically get diamonds, gold and all these other very lucrative things? not only in the CR, but all over the continent. And that's one of the main strategies that Wagner has been employing for, you know, since Ukraine, since 2014, because they've been, you know, deployed to a country that is in trouble, offer the government some backing and help or a particular regime that wants to stay in power. And in return, this regime allows them to exploit the country's riches. And then Prokhorhin profits from contracts, like government contracts that he would not be able to get otherwise. And he sends his private army to help him out, who also get a share, like a cut of that. So it's a really kind of bizarre

men for hire, but also kind of linked to the operational ends of the Russian government. And so, yeah, so it must be quite lucrative for the group. And where does that money go? Like, is it connected at all to what's happening with the fight in Ukraine? Are they using it to pay for the war? Well, we don't know that for sure, whether they are using that or whether that's just Prigozhan enriching himself, because, you know, the general understanding how Wagner in Ukraine gets a lot of its stuff, it gets it still from the military because the exact financial relationship here is not super clear. But I think, you know, one thing we can see for sure is that those lucrative

contracts have definitely bankrolled Prigozhin for a very long time. And he in turn financed Wagner operations using that money, but also pocketing some for himself. finance to Wagner operations using that money, but also pocketing some for himself. Right. Okay. And so the finances of this group and any response or accountability for any alleged human rights violations, it's all still really in the shadows. It's all very in the shadows. They are not acknowledging that they're doing anything wrong because their excuse is that the local government asked us to be here. So we're here legitimately. And their point is always like, for example, for the French peacekeepers is that you're their, like, the colonizing force,

and you are not doing the good that you're promising to do. And we're actually helping this country get rid of instability. So it's a mix of propaganda, especially aimed at locals, and a mix of a really clear business interest. Central African Republic was like a training ground for many Wagner forces. And even those fighting in Ukraine right now did use the CRO as a ground to prepare for Ukraine. So what we have seen in the last couple of years in the Central African Republic in terms of Russian abuses,

it's what people are now beginning to find out or what people are now beginning to notice in Ukraine. So we have been saying this a long time that yes, this is what's going on in Africa, this is what's going on in Central Africa. But that didn't get a lot of media coverage, not much of global acclaim until now

where Wagner is at the forefront of the Russian invasion in Eastern Ukraine. media coverage, not much of global acclaim until now, where Wagner is at the forefront of, you know, the Russian invasion in Eastern Ukraine. So yes, Africa was like a training ground, a preparatory ground for Wagner going into Ukraine. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections.

Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a

financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Okay, let's talk now about Wagner's role in the war in Ukraine. What job is the group doing there? casualties because of just the nature of their role on the battlefield. And Wagner, generally, they are pretty trained elite force, because you have to understand that, you know, the Russian army has a lot of people, but not all of them ever actually served or ever actually had firsthand experience with actual battlefield. You know, they may have served in the army, but they never actually fought a real enemy anywhere. So Wagner is not that. They actually have tons of combat experience in Ukraine. So they know eastern Ukraine. They know the region of Donbass where a lot of fighting is happening now. They've been trained in Syria. They've done urban fighting there. They come with a lot of experience. lot of experience. And they have been tasked with regaining some of the really tough spots on the front line. And that's how Periguanon specifically was able to kind of, you know, market Wagner as this really formidable, super trained force. You know, it's in a way, it's still an exaggeration,

because they probably want to be portrayed as more efficient than they really is. But overall, I think they definitely stood out in some of the really key battles over the last year. It was Liman and Papasna, some of the really key fights there. And most recently, the bloodiest battle on the front line was in Bahmud. And that's where Wagner is fighting. That's primarily on the front line was in Bakhmut. And that's where Wagner is fighting. That's primarily Wagner soldiers trying to get that location. And it became really symbolic, although it's not necessarily clear what strategic goal Russia would have if it captures the city. It's more of a kind of publicity, public relationship stunt that if Wagner does take that place, then that means it's the most professional

and most effective force that Russia has, which gives a lot of leverage to Wagner. Okay. So initially, at least, this was a really elite group of fighters who had battle experience and were sent into Ukraine. And we'll talk about how that's changed over time. But do we know how many Wagner fighters there are on the ground in Ukraine? over time. But do we know how many Wagner fighters there are on the ground in Ukraine? So the best assessment we have is actually from the US. So they assess that Wagner has 50,000 people in Ukraine fighting, but 40,000 of that are convicts who have been recruited from Russian prisons in very unclear legal circumstances. And about 10,000 of that is the Wagner Corps, plus some of the Contra soldiers who are likely to have military experience in Chechnya or Afghanistan. They not

necessarily fought with Wagner before, like maybe they were not in Syria, were not in Africa, but they have some common experience and they were called by Wagner people to join them at the beginning of the war. And there are reports that Putin has been secretly pardoning those Russian convicts that are being recruited by Wagner to fight in Ukraine. Why does that have to happen in secret? Well, because legally, first of all, legally, there is no war in Russia. It's not officially called a war. It's the special military operations. Second of all, taking people out of prison without

a good reason is also questionable in terms of the Russian law. Right. We're talking about, at least in some of these cases, these are men in prison for serial rape and murder and really serious crimes. Yes, they're primarily, they're videos of pre-guerrilla touring Russian prisons. He says that, you know, we're looking for guys who, you know, have been accused of violent crimes and, you know, people who end up in Wagner in Ukraine. They've been convicted of murder and sent to behind bars for 20 years

and now they get out and they have a partner. That may include this serial rapist and convicted murderer of at least 83 women. He told Russian TV he sees Wagner as a good fit. But the reason it's a secret because, you know, tell the public that you're going to release 40,000 convicts doesn't go really well with the public. Legally, it's not very clear how to do that. So what they ended up doing is that Kremlin in bulk pardoned all these people. And it seems like these convicts did not know that they were pardoned when they were going to Ukraine. And they only found out after they came back in their six months

contract, which is the condition you serve, fight for six months and they get a pardon, came back and they got the paper. There are still a lot of legal questions how much this paper holds in court or any other government institution because it's still a secret decree. It constitutes a government secret. So it's not really clear how they're going to be using that. But it seems to be sort of unspoken rule that, yes, these guys fought in Ukraine. Now they're free and police should not bother them anymore. So it's really, again, a great Ukraine. Now they're free and police should not bother them anymore. So it's really, again, great area. And a lot of these men aren't surviving six months at the front lines, are they? Yeah, very few have survived. There's a really good group,

Russia Behind Bars, that have been doing work with prisoners for a very long time. And, you know, with the war in Ukraine, that became their main job to track what happens to them. So they say like the first battles that those convicts took were in June and July of last year. And, you know, if you take 100 people, probably like one of them has survived. So like the survival rate is really, really low because they're not trained. They also came out from prison after spending years in a really brutal system. Their health is like really questionable. Their physical ability is also very questionable. So the survival rate has been really low. Yeah, it's a tough bargain. We'll get you out of here.

And he even, you know, he even says this in an unverified video. He says, we'll get you out of here, but we can't guarantee we'll get you back. Yeah, and he warns them, he warns them, if you decide to do it, if you come back, good for you, but you might not come back and it's likely that you won't come back. There was recently news and a story about an alleged former Wagner mercenary who escaped Russia and then fled to Norway. I've been chased. I'm afraid for my life. And talks about what he witnessed, the abuse and deaths of Russian prisoners brought to the front lines. I know cases where prisoners were demonstratively shot dead

for refusing to fight or for betrayal. They were showing fighters, here, this is what will happen to you. And then there's this other really horrific, unverified video of a Wagner fighter who was executed with a sledgehammer after admitting to changing sides and fighting for Ukraine. What do these glimpses reveal about how Wagner Group operates, especially if someone wants out of the fight? especially if someone wants out of the fight. Well, that shows that really you don't have a way out because we know that they have been doing that in the past. If somebody violated the Wagner rules, they were brutally murdered in a lot of ways.

And that seems to be happening in Ukraine as well because it wasn't in that same clip that you mentioned earlier. He said that if you sign up and come with us there, but on the first day you decide it's not for you and try to flee, we will shoot you. He warned them from day one that that's going to happen, and they have been doing that. Before we go, I want to talk a little bit more about the Wagner Group's growing prominence in the world. The Russian army is, of course, no stranger to violence. So why was it so important for Putin to have plausible deniability when it came to Wagner's brutal work before the war in Ukraine? And why isn't that so important now? Like, why is he coming forward and we're learning more about this group and we're hearing more officials talk about them?

I think before, you know, to an ordinary Russian, conflict in Syria is something really far away. you know, to an ordinary Russian conflict in Syria, something really far away. And it would not make sense to send, you know, our own boys to the front lines in Syria, because nobody really knows why Russia should be involved in Syria, like on a regular level. So it worked really well, because those were private people doing private business, and it coincided with Russian goals in Syria. But it was very convenient, and you didn't have to have any accountability for what they were doing. In Ukraine, that's different. I think that's also part of Grigory's strategy, because he was trying to, for a long time, I think, legitimize Wagner and give them more resources, prominence. And he achieved that, because Wagner, because they had

some strategic wins in the beginning and the middle of Russian campaign, when the regular forces were not doing well and, you know, suffering setback after setback, he emerged as this effective warlord. And that allowed him to get back reportedly into good graces with the Kremlin. And that also earned Wagner first public acknowledgement. You know, it was always a long open secret that Wagner exists. And after they took one town in Ukraine that was very important for the Russian army, there was a TV special, the state TV special about Wagner fighters. They were calling themselves musicians or like the orchestra with links, obviously, to Richard Wagner. And that was the first time they were acknowledged publicly.

And most recently, a bizarre thing happened. The Russian Defense Ministry, for the first time, you know, after years of denials, thanked Wagner for their activities in Bakhmut and Salidar. And that was bizarre for everyone, because Prigozhin would sue people for saying that, you know, Wagner has anything to do with that, with him or with literally anything. And now it's acknowledged on the official level. But because I think there's demand for that, because it plays really well into sort of the conservative society, which wants to see more battlefield gains. It wants to see wins. It wants to see Russia as this like, I guess like a brutal but effective force.

And Prigozhin is using that to his advantage to gain more prominence while, you know, the Russian army struggles with a lot of its internal problems and he's trying to capitalize on that. Well, and last week he was able to openly criticize the Kremlin for not blocking YouTube. I guess I was really surprised that he could get away with that kind of criticism. He's been getting away with a lot of criticism. And, you know, he and the Chechen leader, Ramzan Kadyrov, who also sent his own elite forces to Ukraine, they're both kind of on this warpath with the defense ministry, at least in the public, you know, trying to criticize specific generals and, you know, something that to anybody else would mean a jail sentence, like it would not be possible for anyone else.

I have had the deepest combat experience for eight years now, in many ways vastly superior to the experience of those who have been in the service of the defense ministry for decades. But he doesn't directly criticize Vladimir Putin. He never does that. He criticized, you know, like people in the Putin administration who, you know, I think he said regards to YouTube, they want to see Russia fail. Like he accused him of not being patriotic enough and not being, you know, pro-Russian enough. And that's why this criticism goes well, because he ideologically is not against anything what Putin is doing. He's very much pro that. He's against, you know, people who are not effectively achieving what Putin wants. And that's kind of why he's allowed to criticize because he's criticizing in order to complete all these goals better, in order for Russia to lead this war better. And that's why he's allowed to criticize that. Whilst if you're opposing the war and you criticize the war, then you're in trouble. Mary, thanks so much for joining us to talk about it and take good care of yourself. Thank you.

That's all for today. I'm Jodi Martinson. Jamie is back tomorrow. Thank you for listening to FrontBurner.