Front Burner - 'We were unwanted cargo' How Canada turned away refugees during the Holocaust

Episode Date: November 6, 2018

Eva Wiener describes her voyage across the Atlantic and how she feels about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's upcoming apology for Canada having turned her ship back. Also, CBC Ottawa Senior Reporter Catherine Cullen describes the politics of the apology.

Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you gotta know, and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighbourhood or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto, wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. On Wednesday, the federal government is going to apologize for an ugly chapter in Canada's history.

The MS St. Louis was a ship carrying over 900 German Jews in 1939. They were fleeing the Holocaust and headed for safety in Cuba. But they were turned away. And then they were turned away again and again, when Canada and other countries refused to help. Eventually, they were sent back to Europe, and 254 people were killed in concentration and internment camps. Today, I'm speaking with one of the surviving members of the MS St. Louis, and after that conversation, we'll discuss the context in which this apology is coming. That's today on FrontBurner. Hello, my name is Eva Wiener.

My parents and I, as a 10-month-old infant, were passengers on the MS St. Louis in 1939 on its fateful voyage. You know, I think we don't need to explain why many Jewish people wanted to leave Germany, but I'm hoping you can tell me a little bit about your family's journey, how your family ended up on the MS St. Louis. My mother was actually planning to book us to Siam, the country that's now Thailand. In the meantime, the visa or landing permits for Cuba came. So the decision was to go to Siam or

go to Cuba wasn't much of a choice considering Cuba being this paradise and so close to America, which was the ultimate goal. I was too young to understand what was happening, of course. But my parents told me that the voyage to Cuba was marvelous. They were treated as if they were truly cruise passengers with dances and parties and movies and everything that you would normally find on a luxury cruise ship. And things were very, very optimistic about being able to escape Germany and find a new place to live. That would be more welcoming. What happened when the ship reached Cuba?

The ship arrived in Havana Harbor, dropped anchor before it reached the pier. And the passengers were prepared to depart and were told that there was a holdup, some red tape. And the passengers were not aware of anything that was happening, but obviously very frightened and concerned that they were not able to leave the ship. Finally, the captain explained that our papers were not acceptable and that we were barred from entering Cuba. They only allowed approximately 28 passengers to actually leave the ship, but the rest of us were captured on this ship. And what happened after that? The captain told the passengers that he promised

not to take the passengers back to Germany because he knew what their fate would be. he knew what their fate would be. So he decided to try to dock the ship in Florida, but trying to get to Miami, the Coast Guard of the United States came out and warned us not to approach. They were adamant in the fact that we were trespassing on American waters and were not welcome. And were you in the Florida port at the time? Well, my dad used to say that we were close enough to Miami to almost read the license plates on Ocean Avenue. That's how close they felt to being in America. That must have been a devastating feeling when that ship was turned around.

So much so that some of the passengers threatened mutiny. Against the captain? Yes. You know, obviously you were just a baby during this journey. And when you learned that you were at some point in your life trying to find safe harbor in Cuba or the United States or even Canada, and you were rejected, what did that feel like? At first I was very angry at the United States for what they had done.

My life obviously would have been much different had I entered in 1939 and not had to have waited until 46. But when I realized there was so much happening in the world behind the scenes, and my parents were not even aware until much later of what the motivation was in turning us away. I just want to elaborate on that. What do you know now about the motivation? I think it was a very careful plot by the Nazi propaganda machine to show the world that no one wanted us.

We were unwanted cargo. to show the world that no one wanted us. We were unwanted cargo. And since no one wanted us, they were going to carry out their mission of making the world Judenrein, free of Jews. The idea here is that by rejecting this ship, it almost helped bolster their mission. Absolutely.

Can you tell me a little bit more about Canada's role in this? There was a passenger committee formed that included the captain where they contacted every country in the world, basically. Any country that would possibly accept us. The plea went out actually with a price per head. They were offering countries per head monies as a bribe to take the passengers, but none a bribe to take the passengers. But none seemed to be in the position to do that until at the last minute before European countries agreed. But we were halfway across the Atlantic by then. And so Canada was among the countries that did not respond to that call.

And that's what Prime Minister Trudeau is apologizing for in Parliament. I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about what happened to the people on board that ship. Well, when we finally got word that four countries would agree to take us, there was elation. The liner St. Louis, turned back from Cuba, brings its human cargo to port at last. A passenger list was basically divided into four sections. Each of the four sections then would go to their respective countries, Belgium, France, Holland, and England. And fortunately, my father was wise enough to ask to be put on the list for England. And so you and your family ended up in London, England?

Yes. What about the rest of the passengers? As I understand it, about 240 of those that went to the other countries did not survive. 900 people and of those, 254 were killed? Yes. Yes. Okay. Eva, this apology, what does it mean to you? I look forward to it.

I've been to Ottawa and it's a beautiful city. And I'm grateful for Prime Minister Trudeau for his gesture that shows that there is remorse in what happened in 1939 and that maybe the world is a better place today than it was then. And certainly an apology is much appreciated. And how do you think your parents would feel about this apology? I think they would be much appreciated, you know, appreciative also. Eva, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us.

My pleasure. Eva Wiener is one of five survivors from the MS St. Louis who are scheduled to be in the House of Commons on Wednesday to hear the Canadian government's apology. At the time the ship was rejected, Canada's restrictive policies largely closed the door to Jewish people. Between 1922 and 1945, Canada accepted just 5,000 Jewish refugees. On Wednesday, Trudeau will apologize for the past. On Wednesday, Trudeau will apologize for the past. But this apology is coming at a time when many conversations about anti-Semitism and the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers are happening across the globe. Catherine Cullen is a senior reporter on Parliament Hill for CBC News,

and she's going to help me wade through it. Hi, Catherine. Thanks so much for coming on. Hi, Jamie. Happy to be here. So we've just heard from Eva and her harrowing story on the MS St. Louis. And now I'd like to talk to you about some of these contemporary issues. It's impossible to ignore the fact that last week, 11 people were shot and killed at a Pittsburgh synagogue. How do you think the shooting in Pittsburgh has affected the significance of this apology today? It is absolutely going to be top of mind, I think, for everyone in the House of Commons

as this apology takes place on Wednesday. Certainly the signals that we're getting from the Prime Minister's office is that the broader theme of anti-Semitism, both in Canada's past, not just with the St. Louis, but other things that were happening at that time. As a top official of the Immigration Branch

explained to the Prime Minister Mackenzie King, no country can open its doors wide enough to take in the hundreds of thousands of Jews who wish to leave Europe. The line must be drawn somewhere. But also right now is going to be part of what the Prime Minister talks about. And certainly my sense is that that is what people in the Jewish community, members of the Jewish community, are very anxious to hear from the prime minister. I spoke to one representative from B'nai B'rith who was saying to me that in light of what happened just a few days ago, people really, that is what they most want to hear from the prime minister is reassurance

and the conviction that the Canadian government is going to do something. Apologizing for seven years ago, while again, it's nice, it's meaningful, but it's not going to make any of our members of our community sleep easier at night. Of course the shooting at the synagogue is top of mind, but B'nai B'rith would also point out that they do an annual audit of incidences of anti-Semitism. And according to their own records, this involves information from Statistics Canada, from the police, and also a tip line that they have themselves. They bring numerous sources

together. But according to their records, since they started keeping them in 1982, the past couple of years are the worst that they have ever seen. So it's something they're very anxious to hear the Prime Minister himself speak to. Are you getting a sense from at least some members in the Jewish community that they'd like the government to do more to address anti-Semitism? Unquestionably. And I think that that's something that we will be paying attention to on Wednesday as well. B'nai B'rith, for example, actually has an eight-point plan, things that they think need to be done in order to better address anti-Semitism in Canada. As an example, the number one thing on the list is to institute dedicated hate crime units in every major city.

Number two, provide enhanced training for hate crime officers, and the list goes on and on. I remember that Trudeau went to Auschwitz a few years ago with some Holocaust survivors. It's the greatest expression of understanding that he could have done. Do you think there's a personal element to this apology as well? The extent to which it is personal, I would say, and obviously neither you or I is inside the prime minister's mind, but you do get the sense that he very much personally believes in the power of the apology as an act, as a way of moving forward, atoning for past mistakes.

The treatment of the Tsilhqot'in chiefs represents a betrayal of trust. The treatment of Indigenous children in residential schools is a painful chapter of Canada's history. For the oppression of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and two-spirit communities, we apologize. One thing that's really interesting about that, if you want to get a little bit personal,

is it was his own father, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who pushed back against these kind of official apologies. He said, I don't think the purpose of a government is to write the past. It cannot rewrite history. It is our purpose to be just in our time. And there are a lot of Canadians right now, I think, who might agree with that, that it is not the role of people now to go apologize for past wrongs. But Justin Trudeau looks at this, and he has said himself,

in a very different way than his father. He thinks his father took a bit of an academic approach. He says, you know, I was a teacher. I'm someone who's been out in the community. For me, I understand the power that these apologies can hold in speaking directly to people. And, you know, this is frankly the kind of thing that the Trudeau government does well if you're receptive to these kinds of messages, these big symbolic moments. I also can't help but wonder, this apology, this apology about a ship of asylum seekers

that was turned away. It's also coming at a time when countries are grappling with asylum seekers from across the globe, refugees from Syria, for example. And certainly Canada being a safe haven for refugees has been a central message of the Trudeau government. Do you think that this is an issue that he might address in this policy, in this apology? I get the sense that there is some real sensitivity around that particular question. that there is some real sensitivity around that particular question. Now, when the prime minister first actually raised the prospect of the St. Louis and sort of suggested that it might be something amongst the things that Canada was considering,

the government of Canada was considering apologizing for, it was in response. It was at a public event run by the New York Times, and it was in response to a question a woman asked about anti-immigrant sentiment. One of Trudeau's own MPs from the Toronto area, Omar El-Ghabra, tweeted in response to the news that this announcement was coming, we turned away asylum seekers without giving them due process and dignity. We must learn from our history. But when Omar El-Ghabra tweeted that, there was some pushback right away. Some people very offended by the comparison of what happened during the Holocaust to people, for instance, who might be walking across the Canada-U.S. border right now.

And I think there is also, my sense from speaking to officials, a real sensitivity about not making this announcement certainly partisan, but even overly political. There is a real sense of seriousness about this, about what the prime minister intends to do, about the historical wrong that was committed here. And so I think we're going to see a lot of people drawing those comparisons. I don't know whether my sense is that the prime minister's office is certainly not keen to embrace them. Catherine, thank you so much. You're welcome. Eva Wiener is set to be joined by four other MS St. Louis survivors for the Prime Minister's apology.

Their names are Judith Steele, Sonia Geismar, Hans Fischer, and Saul Messinger. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. Stay tuned for tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe.

As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone. Available now.