Front Burner - Weekend Listen: Split Screen: Kid Nation

Episode Date: April 27, 2024

The controversial reality TV show known as ‘Kid Nation’, which borrowed its premise from Lord of the Flies, was cancelled shortly after its 2007 debut. Producers took 40 kids into a makeshift desert town to fend for themselves and create their own society. Was the series an opportunity to discover what kids are capable of? Or simply a ploy for ratings? With access to former ‘Kid Nation’ contestants, their families, and the show’s creators, culture journalist Josh Gwynn uncovers how this cult TV show became a lightning rod for an ongoing debate about the ethics of reality TV. Welcome to Split Screen, an examination of the utterly captivating, sometimes unsettling world of entertainment and pop culture. From reality TV gone awry, to the cult of celebrity, each season of Split Screen takes listeners on an evocative journey inside the world of showbiz. Ex-contestants, producers, and cultural critics uncover complicated truths behind TV’s carefully curated facades, and question what our entertainment reveals about us. Split Screen: sometimes reality is twisted. More episodes are available at: https://link.chtbl.com/-vGm-quA

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem, brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey everybody, Jamie here. So we have a bonus episode for you today from the brand new podcast, Split Screen Kid Nation. It's the true story behind one of reality TV's most controversial experiments. The reality TV show known as Kid Nation, which borrowed its premise from Lord of the Flies, was canceled shortly after its 2007 debut. The show's producers were accused of taking advantage of New Mexico's lax child labor laws

and blurring the lines between entertainment and exploitation. With access to former Kid Nation contestants, their families, and the show's creators, culture journalist Josh Gwynn explores the show's lasting impact. We have the first episode for you now. Have a listen. lasting impact. We have the first episode for you now. Have a listen. Okay, so here's the deal. We already need a fresh meat and we're thinking about killing a chicken. It's the fall of 2007 and CBS, that network where you can watch long-running hits like How I Met Your Mother and Two and a Half Men, they have a couple new shows this year. One's a little show called Big Bang Theory, but they're also launching a new reality show. It's called Kid Nation.

So picture this, right? They took 40 kids, all between the ages of 8 and 15. They took them out to the middle of the desert in New Mexico. And the premise is that these kids, without the assistance of any adults, were going to set up their own society. It's being posed as a weird new social experiment. And as you're watching this episode, you see these 40 kids look around this dusty, brown, southwestern-looking mess hall, all looking confused, running around like, well, you know, yelling back and forth as to whether they're going to have to literally kill chickens to have food to eat.

We can't survive off of peaches and apples and starch. We need protein. I don't want them to kill chickens because it's mean, it's cruel, it's... Animals are friends. People just don't realize that. Do y'all really know how to do this? I haven't seen anything like this before, or since, to be honest. Then, suddenly, one boy, you can easily pick him as one of the older ones because he's giving you messy hair with the beanie and the braces, millennial teenager.

His name is Greg. He steps up and he talks about how he was an apprentice for a butcher. I butchered cattle. I butchered pigs. I butchered goats. I butchered lambs. I butchered turkeys. I butchered chickens.

I got a lot of questions. Like, first of all, why did this teenager murder Old MacDonald's entire farm? But also, why does he seem so confident? The kids are still debating, so they put it to a vote. You might say the chickens have come home to roost. People wanted meat. People wanted chicken. So you get this shot of this desolate quote-unquote town that the kids are staying in and it looks like every town from any western you've ever seen it's that shot right before the duel or the shootout

and in the lower third you get a chyron that says caution the following scene may be intense for young children weird disclaimer for a reality show with only young children in it. I wonder if the show thought about whether it was intense for the young children on that side of the screen. It's time to kill chickens. A bunch of kids circle around a tree stump where one of the kids is holding the body of the chicken. The chicken's neck is stretched out over the tree stump, guillotine style. Kids are grabbing their throats in empathy, peeking through their fingers at what's about to happen. Greg, he grabs an axe, and you see the axe swing down, and one of the little girls in this highlighter pink hoodie, she starts screaming

for her life. She starts screaming for her life. The camera shows this chicken still flopping around, and the children start to back away in horror. And Greg just moves on to the next chicken. And he tosses the head of the chicken aside as another kid, who's holding the chicken's still flapping body, smiles the biggest grin into the camera and says, We sped up the natural cycle of life and death. We gave these two suckers a shortcut. Sure, now you got shows like Yellow Jackets or The Wilds,

two recent shows about groups of high school-aged girls who survive plane crashes in the wilderness and descend into madness. But this was 2007, and this wasn't being sold as scripted. It was supposed to be real. Reality TV had been around for a while, at least since the 70s, when PBS had this show called An American Family

following the lives of the Loud family. But because of an imminent writer strike in 2007, networks were trying to figure out formats that didn't rely on writers or rely on actors. And there was this pressure to be the most outrageous, the most scandalous. This was the genre of that decade. You know, Survivor, American Idol, those were the biggest shows on television.

And the first season finale of Survivor got like 50 million viewers. Maria Elena Fernandez is a journalist. For 15 years, she covered entertainment for outlets like the LA Times. CBS had been the network to launch Survivor, which really changed everything about television. And so they were looking for the next big thing. CBS invited Maria and a bunch of other journalists to a press junket to show off their shiny new reality show. TV critics took their seats. The head of CBS hopped on stage. and a bunch of other journalists to a press junket to show off their shiny new reality show. TV critics took their seats.

The head of CBS hopped on stage. CBS showed a four-minute trailer of it, and the president of CBS, Nina Tassler, was really excited about it and touting it as the next biggest reality TV show hit. It's something you've never seen before, and, you know, you're going to fall in love with these kids, and this is going to be the best thing ever. But after the trailer ended, instead of rapturous applause, a kind of stunned silence filled the room.

People were gagged. It was an intense kind of press conference where the TV credits were like, what is happening? Is it fair for these kids to be working in this manner? Is it fair for them to be so separated from their parents, have absolutely no contact with their parents at all for 40 days? And, you know, the argument is the parents sign up for this, you know, the parents agree to this. But do you know what you're getting into is, you know, when you do something like this? It got billed as this special summer camp. It was kind of the responses we were getting to those questions at the time, you know, that kids go away to summer

camp all the time and this is in the same manner. But it turned out to be very different than summer camp. Then people started to ask questions about the working conditions. At the time, New Mexico, which is where it was filmed, did not have a strict child labor law. And so the production was able to, you know, use that as a loophole. The reports were that the kids were on set

like 14, 15 hours. There was really no limits. The controversy builds and child advocacy groups, they have their say. Critics start demanding that the show gets canceled. Businesses start pulling their ad money. And so all of that creates more controversy and more confusion.

And, you know, was it real? Wasn't it real? You know, that's the whole debate about reality TV. But you know what they say about all press. All this attention does is create a buzz. Kid Nation is soon the most talked about show of the season. The show's creator, Tom Foreman, pours gas on the fire by admitting that the show was partly inspired by the dystopian novel, Lord of the Flies. CBS goes on the defensive, denying any and all allegations of mistreatment. But their arguments don't persuade New Mexico's attorney general, who opens an investigation into whether

Kidnation violated federal child labor laws. The controversy peaked after filming wrapped, when the mother of one of the children filed a complaint claiming that her 12-year-old daughter was burned in the face when cooking a meal. And another was hospitalized after accidentally drinking bleach. I really don't think parents had any idea what they were getting into. I'm Josh Gwynn. I'm an audio creative, and a lot of the work I do focuses on the impact of pop culture. And a lot of the work I do focuses on the impact of pop culture, not just as entertainment, but as a lens that allows us to ask questions about ourselves and the world we live in. And I want to know, what was Kid Nation really about?

From CBC, this is Split Screen, Kid Nation. Episode one, Dropped in the Desert. So you had to turn in your application, the 20 or 30 page application. This is Ron, and like me, he also loves reality TV. And the application had you tell, obviously, that you had a family and what their names were and their ages and things like that. But while I'm more than comfortable to watch from the couch, Ron actually wanted to be on reality TV. And everyone else was 20-something and gorgeous. And I was like, you know, just this average guy. And I was like, well, at least I got personality.

I'll try that. Most of the people around me, they were pretty, but they didn't have much substance to what they were saying. Ron sent his application for producers to review, along with hundreds of others. Days and weeks go by, but he doesn't hear anything. Then, finally, out of the blue, after months of waiting, he comes home to find a voicemail. Because 2006.

We get a message on the answering machine. Hey, we saw your application, and we kind of pulled you out as a person of interest. And that's all it said. At first, I thought it was a prank. So my best friend was always doing pranks on me. So I called him first to check and see. And he's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. So I thought, that's it.

I'm on the show. I better start preparing. Learn how to make a fire. Now, like I said, this is 2006, and the biggest reality show on TV that year is Survivor. The premise is simple. A bunch of castaways are dropped off in a remote location, usually like a desert island or a jungle, and they have to outwit and outlast each other through a series of challenges. The last one standing wins a major cash prize. It's kind of hard to remember just how big of a cultural impact a show like Survivor had.

Can you name another show that's been on the air for 45 seasons? Four or five. It still leads in the ratings. So, when he calls back, Ron finds himself on the phone with a casting agent from CBS, the network that makes Survivor. But as it turns out, they wanted to talk to him about another show altogether. I call her back and they asked about the girls and I was kind of shocked. It's not Ron the producers are interested in. The casting agent tells Ron that they're beginning to work on a brand new show. But with a little twist.

This one's for kids. How is the show explained to you? She said it's like Survivor, only gentler, only more like summer camp. And then they can win special privileges like TVs and video games and stuff at summer camp. And we're like, oh, that's kind of cute. Ronan mentioned his daughters, Olivia and Mallory, in his audition tape.

The casting agent wanted to know if they would be willing to audition. And I said, no, nah, we're not interested really. And she's like, well, you know, why don't you just give it a try? Why don't you guys just talk about it and see if, you know, maybe you could do this for the experience of it. My wife and I talked about it and we're like, they're never in a million years going to pick two ordinary girls from Indiana. Let's just let them do it. It could be fun.

They might like it. I think we had come home from school that day and my dad just approaches us out of the blue. And is kind of like, hey, the people from CBS called me back. And we were excited at first because we thought he was going to be on Survivor because we had no idea how long an audition process was. So we were like, well, you sent them an application. So that means that's it, right? He went to my sister and I and kind of asked, hey, like, this is a long shot.

You guys probably wouldn't get on TV, but would you like to go audition like just for fun, whatever? long shot. You guys probably wouldn't get on TV, but would you like to go audition, like, just for fun? Whatever. Growing up in Indiana, in the middle of the country, Ron's oldest daughter, Olivia, had the same type of teenage angst that Kelly Clarkson sang to the bank. The middle school existential desire to break away from boredom, from strip malls, from state fairs. She saw this as an opportunity to finally do something exciting. The kids who picked on me in middle school weren't even cool, which is how you know you're not cool. Prior to middle school was actually a pretty outspoken, energetic kid. And middle school hit and it broke me. And so I became really shy and really unsure of myself. Olivia could not, for the life of her,

understand why these LA casting producers would even be interested in her. Just like her dad, Olivia understood that her chances of actually getting on the show were slim to none. I was nervous about it, but my sister very much wanted to and so my parents weren't going to let her go without me because I was older and so we both ended up auditioning.

While Olivia, who saw this as a chance for adventure, was 13 at the time, her sister, Mallory, she was only eight. Specifically with Mallory, her being so young, did you have any concerns about that? Yes, I would not have let Mallory go alone, period. I mean, that was their goal, is to make us feel comfortable and relaxed and that our kids are in no way, in no danger whatsoever because there's so many people there and they've all been background checked and you're, it's just going to be summer camp. I mean, you'd send your kids to summer camp, wouldn't you? There's so many people there and they've all been background checked. It's just going to be summer camp.

I mean, you'd send your kids to summer camp, wouldn't you? We sent in this giant application with all of these questions. And they knew everything there was to know about us. They'd even ask things about our parents so that they kind of knew what kind of house we were being raised in. parents so that they kind of knew what kind of house we were being raised in. I mean, they knew everything from who I had a crush on to my favorite color to who my parents voted for in every of the elections that they had been able to vote in. Once the questionnaire is done, there's a series of phone interviews, then an in-person screen test at a local hotel. Of course, being a middle school kid, some of it was embarrassing. Like they were asking me about my period in front of my dad.

And I'm turning beet red because I'm, you know, a 13-year-old girl and this is a brand new thing to me at the time. And so, yeah, they knew everything. After almost an entire year, endless interviews and mountains and mountains of paperwork, After almost an entire year, endless interviews, and mountains and mountains of paperwork, Olivia and Mallory were invited to a hotel in L.A. for a final round of interviews. This hotel is, like, full of kids, but it's silent. Because we're not allowed to talk to any of them or tell any of the staff why we're there. They would ask you all kinds of things, you know.

What would you do if, X, Y, Z? Things like if somebody makes you upset or if your friend does this behind your back or, you know, any of these kind of things. I mean, they tested us in every way possible. They knew everything there was to know about us. It's a bizarre experience and it causes you to be incredibly self-aware because you have to be able to answer any tiny little question about yourself or a giant philosophical one at the age of 13. After five days of grueling auditions, medical examinations, psychological assessments, Olivia, Mallory, and their parents are finally able to pack it all up and go home. I was in the shower because we were about to leave the hotel and so I wanted to clean up before we got on the plane. And my mom peeks her head into the bathroom and says, You got on the show!

And I'm like, What? I was in shock. My sister was really excited immediately, but I was really shocked that things had gotten this far because my parents the whole time were being realistic and saying, you guys probably won't get on, but what a cool experience to get to see the behind the scenes of a TV show. All of a sudden, Olivia realizes she knows next to nothing about the show that she signed up for. We were told that it was basically a summer camp with cameras and that

we were also pretty explicitly told that there would be no like villains on the show that it was just going to be this cute summer camp show for kids. So, Olivia and her family returned to Indiana, back to their ordinary lives. I just kept going to school, you know, I just kept living my normal life and kind of pretending that this thing was not going to happen. This whole time, the show's been wrapped in secrecy. Producers have even given it a codename. And I believe the codename for it was the Manhattan Project.

The Manhattan Project. Cool. You know, the same name given to the U.S. military's secret plan to develop the world's first atomic bomb. If I were sending my child into this thing, I wouldn't exactly feel reassured. I remember thinking, hmm, this sounds a little weird. I don't know. It's horrible when you think about it. I find it interesting that even early on when they're making the code name for the show, they know this show is going to cause ripples. They know that this show is going to be controversial.

There was also a 22-page contract that the parents had to sign. I've managed to get my hands on a copy, and let's just say it's pretty comprehensive. a copy, and let's just say it's pretty comprehensive. Paragraph three says that the children won't be unable to contact any family or any friends from their home life during the period of filming. According to paragraph six, if a child should be seriously harmed or killed during the production, the parents will not only release CBS from its obligations, but the producers as well. Another clause holds parents and their children solely responsible for, quote, any emotional distress, illness, sexually transmitted diseases, HIV, and pregnancy. The children were paid a mere $5,000 stipend for the entire experience.

And how did they get away with being so stingy? By claiming that the kids weren't working for CBS. They actually were just participants at a summer camp, which in their view meant that they weren't actually subject to federal labor laws. And the penalty for violating this confidentiality agreement? Five million dollars. If you're wondering about the legality of all this, don't worry, me too. When you saw the contract absolving CBS of any liability, what were your concerns? The whole thing. Obviously, CBS has a lot more money than I do.

And you know their lawyers have written that in such a way that it definitely causes pause because you think, hmm. But honestly, we didn't think that they were going to get on the show. In early April, Olivia and Mallory dropped out of school and flew with their parents to a New Mexico hotel. And that night before filming started, the crew came by their room to check through their luggage. We were allowed to take a certain number of outfits, just certain things. The thing that killed me as a 13-year-old girl was that I was not allowed to have anything to deal with my period. I was not allowed to have that. I would have to go to crew members in order to get that if I needed it, which was very embarrassing.

The next day, the kids got up, they had breakfast. And then they were like, OK, say goodbye to your parents. Like, you're not going to talk to them for 40 days. And so Mallory, who is eight at the time, is like, OK, I love you guys. Bye. We're going to have so much fun. And I was crying my eyes out like they were dying or something. Free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. And basically saying, okay, start talking to each other, like start introducing yourselves to each other. Because we had not been allowed to talk to any of these kids that we'd seen in two hotels.

Without much fanfare, the producers scurry around busily fixing tiny microphones to the collars of 36 children as they take their seats aboard a battered yellow school bus. It seemed like the cameras were already rolling. Olivia and Mallory, they take their seat near the middle of the bus. It seemed like the cameras were already rolling. Olivia and Mallory, they take their seat near the middle of the bus. A producer puts a camera and a mic in their face and just starts reeling off questions. What do you think about where we're going? Or how do you feel right now? Do you miss your parents? You know, all these kind of questions. One of the things we weren't allowed to have was watches. So we actually never knew what time it was. And so I have no idea how long they drove us around on that bus, but they drove us around on the bus for quite a while.

As the bus rolls along the barren New Mexico desert and the crew are tripping over backpacks left in the aisle, one of the producers asks a boy with long hair what he'll miss most about home. And I think I'm gonna die out here because there's nothing. The boy's name is Jimmy, and like Mallory, he's only eight years old. Eventually, the bus stops by a wooden shack. It looks like it's in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing here. There are 40 of nowhere. There's nothing here. There are 40 of us.

There's one building. This is what we're going to do. And they let us kind of panic for a minute. Like, we kept asking the producers and the adults, hey, is this where we're going to be? Like, what's going on here? And they would not answer our questions. They just kept telling us, stop talking to us, talk to each other. A man with spiky black hair wearing a plaid shirt and jeans arrives on the scene.

He introduces himself as Kid Nation host Jonathan Karsh. Before Kid Nation, Karsh had been a reality producer for Extreme Makeover Home Edition. He would later go on to develop MTV's Catfish, a reality show where people catch people pretending to be other people online. Jonathan tells the kids that they're going to be spending the next 40 days in an abandoned ghost town

just a couple miles down the road. I was relieved in that moment because I thought, okay, this isn't really where we're going to stay. We're going to go down the road a little bit, and there'll be somewhere real for us to stay. The kids start gathering their belongings, but they're interrupted by loud whirling sounds and dust flying everywhere. Olivia looks up, and she sees a helicopter approaching.

When the helicopter landed and these kids came out, he was telling us this is going to be the town council. And we all thought, oh, perfect. They probably told them what we're supposed to be doing. The producers picked four kids to be the leaders. They're known as the town council, and it's made up of 12-year-old spelling bee champion, Anjay, 11-year-old Boy Scout, Mike, 10-year-old beauty pageant queen, Taylor, and 12-year-old theater kid, Laurel.

And then when we started talking to them at first, we realized they had no idea what was going on either. After meeting the Town Council, Jonathan tells the kids to load up their belongings onto rickety wooden wagons. They're going to have to hike to their final destination. The wagons came out and we're in the middle of the desert. I just sat there and thought, what nightmare have we gotten into? The journey is several miles long and on screen it looks totally chaotic. I don't know if you remember that game Oregon Trail from the 90s, but it looks like a real life version of that. They look like they tried to ford the river and their oxen died.

The kids have to catch up with a herd of wild goats that are escaping from pens and the wagon with all their supplies rolls over and the kids start bickering. One of them, 14-year-old DK, suffers a muscle spasm and falls to the ground clutching his ankle. Exhausted but excited, the pioneers finally arrive at their destination. When we first got to Bonanza City, I really thought that there was going to be someone there to tell us what we were supposed to be doing, and nobody did. This abandoned ghost town where the kids are going to build their new world, This abandoned ghost town where the kids are going to build their new world, it's 13 miles south of Santa Fe, New Mexico. It's called Bonanza City.

It was once a gold rush town established in 1880, but the population plummeted from 2,000 to 200 within just a few years, and it was completely abandoned by the early 1900s. This probably explains why Kid Nation adopts this frontier framing for its young participants. For most of the show, the kids are referred to as pioneers. But Bonanza also has this long history as a filming location. It's been Hollywood's go-to since the 1950s, with more than 130 films and TV shows, including classic westerns like Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid, with more than 130 films and TV shows, including classic westerns like Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid, Easy Rider, and Lonesome Dove. Tragically, Bonanza was also the setting of a real-life shooting in 2021 when actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed rising cinematographer

Helena Hutchins and wounded director Joel Sousa. The place is laid out like the letter X, with four unpaved streets lined with wooden buildings. On one side you have the bunkhouses, on the other side is a half-sheltered kitchen and a small chapel where the town council would hold their meetings. All the adults kind of looked at us and went silent because they just wanted to get our initial reactions on film. They had intentionally kind of trashed the town a little bit, put random things all over the place. So we had to clean it up a little bit. When we figured out that there was not going to be any sort of beds, that we were basically going to have to spread our sleeping bags out on the floor, we were all pretty surprised.

We were basically going to have to spread our sleeping bags out on the floor. We were all pretty surprised. Honestly, a lot of us were still scared and worried about what was going to happen because none of us had really been told the full truth about what the experience was going to be like. It's not just that the bunks are bad. To use the bathroom, the 40 of them have to share one wooden shack with a wooden seat over a hole in the ground. There was a line for the outhouse and people like dying to get in and that was all we had. While some of the kids settle into their bunks, others are trying to figure out the food situation. And it doesn't take long for an argument to erupt in the kitchen as the kids struggle to make mac and cheese.

They don't know that you have to wait for the water to boil first before you put the noodles in because they're kids. We didn't have cheese. We didn't have refrigeration, so we didn't have cheese. And we only had a wood-burning stove. So it took a very, very long time to cook anything. To make matters worse, there's not even running water. If they want water, they have to fill up their buckets from a single water pump on the outskirts of town and carry it all the way back. The first day was horrible.

And honestly, when you look at the show, if you pay attention to the beginning footage, what you see at the start is a lot of footage of jonathan a lot more footage than any of the rest of the show because we were super cold and miserable that first day i remember that first night sleeping a little bit but really mostly just trying to keep warm and stop crying and then on on top of it, not long after we got into the high desert, a lot of us got altitude sickness. And so we had one outhouse and almost all of us had diarrhea. And so I remember that first night just being miserable.

It's not really that easy to function when you're kind of worried about your basic survival, you know? easy to function when you're kind of worried about your basic survival, you know? The stress and the physical demands of those first couple days proved too much for some of the pioneers. It doesn't take long for Jimmy, the youngest kid in the entire town, the bushy-haired boy who worried on the bus to Bonanza that he might die out there, to start talking about feeling homesick. There's a scene in the first episode where the kids realize that Jimmy's gone missing in a remote area of the town. When they find him, he's being comforted by one of the older kids named Laurel. Remember, she came into town in the helicopter and is part of the town council. The hilarious unspoken part

about that scene is that he was running away from producers who were making him cry. And that's why Laurel needed to go and comfort him. So, yes, he was a little kid who was scared of what was going on, absolutely. But he was constantly reminded of that and stirred up by these producers. At the end of the first episode, host Jonathan Karsh addresses the pioneers at a town hall meeting. He asks if anyone wants to go home. You see one small hand go up. Jimmy, why do you want to go home? I'm really homesick.

I think I'm way too young for this. I think he's more mature than a lot of other kids. It's scary. Do you want to leave this entire experience and go back home? Yeah. In fairness to Jimmy, he might be on to something. He might be just the most self-aware eight-year-old I've ever seen. How did you feel when you saw one of the kids leaving?

When Jimmy left, I think a lot of us by that point, hilariously enough, even though it was so early on, we had all kind of bonded over this shared wild experience that we were doing that we felt betrayed by him leaving. We thought, you've betrayed the whole group. We were all kind of mad at him for leaving. I can look back on that moment and say, yeah, Jimmy, that's fair. You did not want to do that. That is totally fair.

After Jimmy leaves, Olivia's biggest worry becomes Mallory. I was in survival mode. I really felt like I was out in open waters and that I had to be strong for my sister because she was the youngest one there. Jimmy's abrupt departure is the first big test on Kid Nation, but it's only one of many wild moments on this roller coaster ride that these kids have just embarked on. We viewed making it through almost as like our thing that we were doing together. We were on this mission together.

We were going to prove to the world that we could make a better society than adults could. And that mission would be filled with many hard decisions, like whether the kids should choose the television or an additional outhouse because the 40 of them have been sharing one. I've been fascinated with this show since the first time I saw it in 2007. I loved the premise. What would society look like if it was created by kids? Kids that haven't had their hearts broken or trust in people destroyed. Kids who weren't afraid to be idealistic because the world hadn't stolen that from them yet.

weren't afraid to be idealistic because the world hadn't stolen that from them yet. Over the next five episodes, I want to understand what they were thinking placing 40 kids in a makeshift desert town to fend for themselves. Was this a genuine opportunity to discover what kids are capable of? Or was it simply reality television once again chasing shock value and high ratings? reality television once again chasing shock value and high ratings. I want to know what Kid Nation can teach us about where we were as a culture in 2007 to see what's changed and what hasn't. Coming up on Split Screen, Kid Nation.

The kids compete over social class and huge cash prizes. The very next day, I think I tried to stage a coup, like take a vote and overthrow the whole system. There's beef over religion. I didn't realize how divisive religion was in America until about that point in my life. And producers are accused of blurring the line

between entertainment and exploitation. It was really hurtful that these people were getting in between our friendships. It was incredibly hard to be 13 and to feel like nobody in the world believed me when I said, this is not really how this happened. Do you think the show could get made today? That's this season on Split Screen. Split Screen Kid Nation was hosted by me, Josh Gwynn.

It was written by myself and Oran Keller, who was the series producer. For Vespucci, the managing producer is Thomas Curry. The story editor is Matt Willis. The series was sound designed and edited by Alice Boyd. For Vespucci, the managing producer is Thomas Curry. The story editor is Matt Willis. The series was sound designed and edited by Alice Boyd. Executive producers are Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turkin. For CBC, the senior producers are Kate Evans and Willow Smith. Anna Ashite is our coordinating producer.

The executive producers are Chris Oak and Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer is the senior manager for CBC Podcasts. And Arif Noorani is the director. Episodes are recorded at Arcade 160 Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. Our sound engineer is Jimmy Guthrie. Split Screen is a Vespucci production for CBC. That was the first episode of Split Screen Kid Nation. The second episode is available for you right now. Just search for Split Screen Kid Nation everywhere you get your podcasts.

For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.