Front Burner - Why Kawhi Leonard is more than just a stoic NBA superstar

Episode Date: June 5, 2019

The Toronto Raptors face the Golden State Warriors for game three of the NBA Finals tonight. It's an exciting time for fans of Raptors superstar Kawhi Leonard. Today on Front Burner, freelance sports writer Alex Wong helps us understand the man behind the calm exterior and shares his thoughts on whether Leonard will stay in the North when this historic series ends.

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Uncover bomb on board. Investigating the biggest unsolved mass murder in Canada. CP Flight 21. Get the Uncover podcast for free on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. Available now. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Leonard peeps at the clock, five seconds. Leonard makes his move. Oh! Lowry to Leonard! That's right! Leonard peaks at the clock, five seconds. Leonard makes his move.

Lowry to Leonard, left hand and throw! It's a long one, nothing but net. Kawhi nuts! For Canadians who love basketball, and let's get real, that's just about all of us right now, Kawhi Leonard is undeniably the man of the moment. Who's your favourite player on the Raptors? Kawhi Leonard. Several restaurantsably the man of the moment. Who's your favorite player on the Raptors? Kawhi Leonard. Several restaurants are promising to feed him for life.

Really just to show Kawhi that we want him to stay. The stoic Raptors player, he's also a bit of a mystery for his legions of fans and also for the reporters who have tried to get to know him during his professional basketball career. What's this team's mentality with history on the line? I mean, I haven't even gotten to locker room yet. We just finished the game. So today, as the Toronto Raptors gear up to face the Golden State Warriors in game three of the tied NBA finals, I'm joined by Alex Wong, a freelance sports writer with Yahoo, GQ, The New York Times, and he's here with me now in studio

in Toronto. Together, we're going to try and get a better sense of the man behind this incredibly calm exterior, and ultimately, and totally unselfishly, ask the question, when this historic series ends, will Kauai stay in the North? This is Frontburner, Raptor's Edition. Hi, Alex. Hi, how are you? Good. Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm excited for this. We're both so excited we're talking over each other. I'm more excited than you. Okay, so let's start this conversation with this now iconic buzzer beater moment.

You know, I think for a lot of people in this country, Kawhi Leonard becomes front and center, household name in this moment. End of Game 7 against the Philadelphia 76ers in the Eastern Conference semifinal, it felt like gravity defying. It's off to Leonard, defended by Simmons. Is this the dagger? Goal!

Goal! Longest five seconds I've had in a while yeah i actually thought it was a minute that it bounced four times yeah 100 it was crazy tell me tell me what that moment was like for you i was in the arena and you know it seemed like perhaps the raptors were headed towards another disappointing playoff finish the cavaliers complete the sweep. Third year in a row that you face them and they've knocked you out. Maybe they just got our number. Things just don't go right for us. You know, for anyone that's followed the Raptors,

that's been their story for the last five years. And I should say you're a huge Raptors fan. Yeah, huge Raptors fan. I mean, I grew up in Toronto. I followed the Raptors since their very beginning 24 years ago. You know, that ball bouncing in the air four times. I think the entire city of Toronto and maybe the entire country of Canada was watching. Just held their breath. Yeah! Yeah! La ha metido Kawhi! Let's go, man!

No, no, no! Wow! Kawhi, let's go! Speaking of that moment, Kawhi's reaction was pretty fantastic, too. Like, it was kind of the most I had seen out of him. He's such a calm player. And, you know, God is good. He just showed me, you could just see what he does for you. And it's interesting watching him,

you know, he's been playing in the NBA since 2011. So he's not new to the spotlight, but he seems kind of uncomfortable with it. Something that was on display even in his first press conference in Toronto. And tell me a little bit about how that went down. Yeah, so I was at the stage for that day. So it was very awkward in the building before he even arrived because after the trade, there was a lot of speculation that, you know, he had not requested a trade to Toronto. He had requested a trade actually to Los Angeles.

But Masai Jiri and the Toronto Raptors stepped in and made the trade anyways. Of course, for a fan favorite, DeMar DeRozan. Yes, yes, that was very tough for the fan base, but from a basketball standpoint, it was a smart trade. So he arrives at the podium. Nobody's even sure if he's showing up that day. So the fact that he even appeared from backstage and walked to the, it was a huge sigh of relief for fans.

And, you know, he was asked the first question about, you know, tell us what you're like. And, you know, in typical Kauai fashion. I mean, there's just more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I just can't give you a whole spiel. He told, you know, longtime Raptors reporter Doug Smith, who asked him the question, you know, I don't even know where you're sitting right now, Doug. And that's when he let out his laugh. And, you know, he told people that he's a fun guy. I'm a fun guy. Obviously, I love the game of basketball. Right. This is now this infamous comment. I'm a fun guy.

Yeah, I think it was not. It was not like the centerpiece of a marketing campaign back then, like when it happened in September. It was a very awkward introduction between Kawhi Leonard and the city of Toronto. And like you mentioned, DeMar, right? DeMar is notoriously known for saying that he wanted to finish his career in Toronto. That's one thing you can never question, is my loyalty to the city and how much I really love and appreciate this team and this organization. Whereas Kawhi, even throughout the season, has not really embraced the city externally the same way as DeMar.

And we're going to get to that in a bit, whether or not you think he's going to stay. But first, for people who haven't seen him in action, let's talk about this composure and this calmness and why you think it benefits him on the court. Yeah. So, you know, he's always been a very even keeled guy on both ends of the floor. It's just the way that he carries himself. And, you know, people like to look at it and people like to call him a robot or say that, you know, he doesn't really show a lot of personality. To me, from watching him play throughout his career, I think it exudes a type of confidence that other players don't have you know shaq or mike they always didn't

just go nuts you know what i mean they made big shots and sometimes just pump their fists and walk back to the bench tell me more about that yeah i think it exudes confidence well because there are some real confident guys in the nba i don't yeah Yeah. And, you know, Kawhi is different. You know, he works very hard. He works harder than anyone. You know, after games, when players are doing their media availabilities, he's usually already in the gym lifting weights. And a lot of reporters have to wait for him for an hour because that's just part of his routine. Yeah. It's just part of his routine. He's in the gym always, you know, before everyone else. And this has been the case since his high school and college days. So tell me more about that, where this work ethic comes from. Yeah. You know, where does Kawhi come from? Yeah. He played in high school and, you know,

he was one of the star players and, you know, while he was playing there, he did have a tragic moment in that his father was murdered at a car wash in Compton. A car wash that he owned, right? Yeah, that he owned. And it was obviously a tough time for the family. But the following day after it happened, he played for the team. He did not play very well, which understandable given the circumstances.

And, you know, after the game, he fell into his mom's arms and cried and just kind of let that emotion out. Basketball is the place for him to get away from everything else that is on his mind. It's a safe haven for him. And I think, you know, I don't want to speak for him just because that was such a personal experience for him. But I think by all accounts whatever happened in high school and the things that he had to deal with made him gravitate towards

basketball more because he knew that was a place where not only he could get away but if he worked hard and worked harder than everyone else that he believed that he could be better than everyone else right right and I you know I've read profiles on him that say that he was talking about making it to the NBA way back then. What I really used to do, I used to watch NBA games and look at the guy sitting on the end of the bench and say, I felt that I could be as good as him at the age of 15 if I kept working hard. Yeah, I think it was always a goal for him. And he watched a lot of highlights of Michael Jordan growing up.

That was his favorite player. And it's funny because I'm sure we'll get to this too. His playoff run has been historical, not just in Toronto sports history, but in NBA history. Just the numbers that he's been putting up and the things I've been doing. He's been drawing comparisons to Michael Jordan. Right. And I'm going to pick that up with you in a minute as well, because I do want to talk about that. But first, let's stay in his early years for just a little bit longer. One thing I find so charming reading about him is the relationship that he has with his mom and his three sisters. You know, apparently they have this incredibly close relationship. And in high school, you know, he didn't go out a lot. He wasn't like a huge partier, but he'd stay at home. He'd play Jenga and eat enchiladas like with his mom. It's like just very charming.

He's definitely a homebody. He has an infamous line he said earlier this season that he just goes door to door from his home to the arena because those are the only two places that he likes to be. Right. He likes to be home with family and he likes to play basketball. And I know that sounds really simple and it might even sound cliche for an athlete to say that but for anyone who's followed Kawhi, who knows his story, it's absolutely true.

That is all Kawhi is about. You got no social media, no Twitter, no Facebook, and you don't have no burner account? We spend so much time playing basketball, and I'd rather just be at home and my off time going to work. My family are my friends. Tell me more about his time at San Diego State when he goes off to college. Yeah, so at San Diego State, he developed a reputation for being one of the best defensive players in the country.

And that's where he started to draw his reputation. And, you know, he spent two years there, went into the NBA draft. And when he first became a draft prospect, he was not the fully developed player that he is today. Right. People came in and said, OK, this guy's going to be a really good defensive player. We can tell based on his physique, his hands able to disrupt passing lanes let's talk about that he does have these giant and you can see him when he's playing he's just like holding he palms the ball like a grapefruit i think there was an ex-nba player who said that on twitter the

other day like what is kawai doing on the court like he literally just picks up the ball like it's a grapefruit at a supermarket and you know the thing is like it's a cool meme but like from a basketball like technical standpoint it gives them such an advantage because he's able to block, like, lines of sight for, like, people who are trying to pass the ball by him. And he's had a couple moments this year where he literally just reaches out with his hand and he's not even looking at the play and makes a steal. Oh, my goodness. What a play. Cool. Yeah.

No, like, he makes plays that you can't even, like, replicate in a video game. Yeah. It's incredible. No, like he makes plays that you can't even like replicate in a video game. Yeah. It's incredible. And so tell me a little bit more about this idea that he wasn't this incredible player when he was drafted to the NBA. Yeah. So he was not a polished offensive player.

He did not have a jump shot. His dribbling was below average in terms of ball handling. So people saw him as maybe a role player. Okay. But they did not see this coming. Okay. With the 15th pick in the 2011 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select Kawhi Leonard. Jay, we haven't heard a lot about him.

What do you like about this kid? He's relentless. And you cannot teach relentless. And so what changed? You know, I think you have to give a lot of credit to not just only his work ethic. You know, he worked a lot with the San Antonio Spurs coaching staff. He had a shooting coach there as well, which helped him with his mechanics. The one thing I think that benefited him too, because the Spurs are a really good team.

So he didn't need to come in and be a star player. He played alongside Hall of Famers like Tim Duncan, Manny Ginobili, Tony Parker. So it gave him a chance to just develop his game without the spotlight on him. Okay, it gave him this chance to grow. Yeah. And to learn. Yeah, to learn. Because you look at other players like LeBron James, comes in, plays for the Cleveland Cavaliers,

is expected to bring that team to a championship right away. The Spurs were already a championship team, and they were able to integrate him. The fans of San Antonio know how great you are and now the whole world does. You are the 2014 Bill Russell MVP. Another anecdote I've read in his time with the San Antonio Spurs, it was like from one of the coaches, his sort of willingness to look at videos of other players to change his shot, which is actually kind of a hard thing for a lot of players to do even mentally. Yeah. You know, nobody studies the game as much as Kawhi from an analytical standpoint. He's really into math, right? He has said that math is his favorite

subject growing up, which, you know, kind of contradicts the fact that he calls himself a fun guy, you know, if I may say that. Fun guys don't like math yeah i don't know i didn't like math growing up i consider myself a fun guy i also don't like yeah i also think um but he is very into the analytical part of the game and once again it's another part that he doesn't share you'll hear offhand secondhand from coaches from fellow players that he's always asking questions in the film room he's always studying players, but all those things goes into how dedicated he is to be the best player, not just on his team, but in the world. Right, right. And I think that's a really good point, this point that you bring up. A lot of

the stuff that we're talking about is stuff that other people have said about Kawhi Leonard. It's not stuff that Kawhi Leonard has said about himself. Yeah, we shouldn't paint Kawhi with broad strokes, I think. He's a way more interesting guy that I think a lot of people give him credit for. And just one more anecdote from his time with the Spurs, which I also find incredibly charming. So here's this guy on this contract for millions and millions of dollars, and apparently he's driving around like a Chevy Tahoe. 97 Tahoe, Wingstop coupons. Tell everyone about these coupons. This is the best.

This is the best. Yeah. So Wing Spot's a very popular chicken wings place in the US. And, you know, I think, I believe he had a sponsorship deal with them. So, you know, he would just use wing stop coupons. Like a lot of these players like to go to five-star restaurants after games, especially on the road. Kawhi just prefers, honestly, the simple life. Like this is just what he does he's gonna show up to the game in a 97 tahoe he's gonna shut down um the opposing team's

best player he's gonna win championships and then he's gonna go to wing stop like that's his life that's his life it's kind of it's just really great i actually love it I should say, you know, a lot of people say that he's a serious guy, but we have also seen him be funny in public. I mean, for one, I know he's probably not doing this on purpose, but he does have this funny laugh that a lot of people have noticed. And then at some of these press conferences, right, like in the playoffs, he's been. Yeah. And he's been very self-aware of it, too. I'll give you one example. You know, after they lost the first two games against the Milwaukee Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals, a reporter asked him, where do you go from here? You know, the implication being you're trailing by two games.

But Kawhi, very matter of factly, said, I'm going to Toronto game three. And even smirked as he was saying it, because I think he realized how funny he was in the moment. And he's had several of those. How do you beat the Bucs four times in a row? I don't know. I haven't done it. Did you want to see the ball in his hands in that situation? No, we wanted to see it in our hands.

And I think also showing his humor in the past. He's done a lot of commercials while he was with the San Antonio Spurs. Right, right. There's that grocery store commercial that they do. So we use the extra time to master the ancient art of origami. Kawhi, what is that? It's a snowball. That's a pretty good snowball, Kawhi. Yeah, I know.

Put him in the right spots, he can be pretty funny. We'll be back in a second. Discover what millions around the world already have. Audible has Canada's largest library of audiobooks, including exclusive content curated by and for Canadians. Experience books in a whole new way, where stories are brought to life by powerful performances from renowned actors and narrators. With the free Audible app, you can listen anytime, anywhere, whether you're at home, in the car, or out on a jog. The first 30 days of the Audible membership are free, including a free book. Go to www.audible.ca slash cbc to learn more. audible.ca slash cbc to learn more.

I want to talk about his exit from the San Antonio Spurs, and he left on bad terms, am I right, related to an injury? And tell me more about that. You know, last season, Kawhi had a quad injury and then was later dealing with a leg injury and ended up only playing nine regular season games. He did not play with the team after December. There was a lot of distrust between his own camp and the San Antonio Spurs medical staff in terms of diagnosing his injury. You know, the Spurs called a team meeting actually towards the end of the season, basically asking Kawhi if he was going to come

back. Obviously the answer was he didn't. And so in the offseason, after all of that happened, he requested a trade. I have no regrets. I want to focus on this team, this journey that we have in front of us today. Okay. And then now let's get to the season with the Raptors. So he has this injury and he sat out for 22 regular season games. So he wasn't even playing that much in the lead up to these playoffs. Yeah. So, you know, the Raptors have a really good medical team. And, you know, one of the things that when Kawhi got traded here, the first thing that he sat down and told the Raptors was his first priority is his health because he needed a team and a medical staff that he could trust, which in his opinion, he didn't have in San Antonio. So the reason why he missed the 22

games is because they, the Raptors introduced what is now known as load management, which is basically, they would make sure that he would not play on back-to-back nights or, you know, if there was four games in one week, you would play two of the games. Right. They didn't want to overdo it. Yeah. Fans were a little bit frustrated because they were saying, okay, we traded DeMar DeRozan, a guy who's out there playing 40 minutes a night. And now here's this guy, where is he? Like he's, he's playing on a Monday and now here's this guy where is he like he's he's playing on on monday and then he's not playing on a wednesday right right and you know everybody just kept saying just wait like this is there's a long-term plan there's a long-term plan and you see it now he's leading all players in the playoffs in minutes played took our time laid out the schedule

uh on treatment days rehab days i could do throughout the season. And, you know, this is what I'm able to play now. I feel like, or we felt like, you know, if I played that whole season, I probably wouldn't even be playing right now. So you mentioned earlier in this conversation that these playoffs are historic, like his performance is historic. And so unpack that a little bit more for me. Tell me more about that. You know, I don't have the statistics off the top of my head,

but, you know, in terms of his scoring and his rebounding and the percentage of points he's been scoring for the team those numbers have put him up there with the all-time greats like you're talking about when you put his stats up with the all-time playoff performances it's like the list includes him kareem abdul-jabbar and michael jordan wow yeah so you know he obviously the game seven buzzer beater which we talked about at the top that is the first series clinching buzzer beater in a game seven in nba history is is it that that was history making okay it's never happened okay it's it's never happened and you know the raptors franchise and the fan base get to have that they have they get to have that forever which i think

brings me to the the question right like like do do we get to have it longer than this season you know so there have been a bunch of reports that he's bought property in toronto although i have to say our library at the cbc did like a bunch of uh property record searches today we searched like his company his girlfriend his mom k, himself, and nobody under any of those names has bought property. But that doesn't mean that it's not like in some numbered company. So I don't know if that's true, but tell me what you think about that. So his free agency decision, he'll become a free agent on July 1st. So this is the time of the year now with a couple of weeks left till his free agency that everybody's going to be reading the tea leaves to everything. that's why you're going to start hearing stuff

about the property right like they put a billboard in oakland new balance put a billboard in oakland calling him the king in the north yeah and it's the best ad for people who haven't seen it it's a picture of kawaii and then on the side it's like all of the teams that they beat to get to the finals cross them out. With Xs. And then there's just, you know, in block letters, the king of the north is coming. Yeah. Yeah. And they put that up before the series.

And, you know. He's like single-handedly making New Balance cool again, hey? He is. But like he or his people would have had to approve that. New Balance is not going to go out of their way to do that. New Balance is not going to go out of their way to do that. My thing is, my latest theory, because it changes every day, is that if you're going to leave the city of Toronto in less than a month's time, would you approve a billboard, not only in Oakland, but at Yonge-Dundas Square that calls yourself the King of the North? Nothing is final. Athletes have done things, have done promos and changed their mind three weeks later and just left. He's also started to talk increasingly more about the support of the Toronto fan base. In the finals, when he's been asked, he says he does notice. He has noticed people outside wearing the shirts, cheering for them, and he feels the energy.

Everyone out here they love, not just me. It's a great support group out here with the fans know not not just me and they're just a great it's a great support uh you know group out here with the fans and with everyone in toronto if you're asking me if i'm trying to be a positive person of thinking that he will come back to toronto next season will it to happen yeah you think so you would bet it's like what over 50 for you you know what i'll put a 60 40 to be honest okay kawaii is a very hard person to read um because his other option realistically his other option is la his main option is the los angeles clippers and you know last week it was reported that the clippers apparently tried to get the rights to kawaii's claw logo which is owned by nike which now nike and and we're

taking a bit of a left turn here but i actually do want to ask you about this. I'll pick up on it. Kawai, news today that Kawai is now suing Nike over this claw logo, which looks like a hand. Because, yeah, because what they're claiming is that it's his property. It's his intellectual property. It's literally his hand. So, you know, there is a lawsuit going on. And again, if you want to pull that back into whether he's going to stay or not my theory is they're trying to get this stuff sorted out so then when he does decide

to stay they can do a full marketing campaign with the claw logo weave in north with new balance new balance king of the north so if you're trying to think positively there are signs alex thank you so much for being here i'm going to keep my fingers crossed that he stays next season. But in the meantime, I just hope we take this game tonight. Yeah, and if I can say one more thing. Yes. Even if Kawhi leaves, just remember that you get to keep all the moments that Kawhi has provided you in these playoffs. The buzzer beater, you get to have that forever.

The Raptors making the NBA Finals for the first time, you get to have that forever. The Raptors making the NBA finals for the first time, you get to have that forever. And even if Kawhi leaves, he has shown what the city can look like when it becomes a basketball town. I will say I grew up here. I love this city and I love what is happening in the city right now. It's surreal. It is amazing. It's like a different city. I don't even recognize it. It's electric.

Yeah. Thank you. This was a pleasure. And fingers crossed for tonight. Fingers crossed. Go Raptors. Go Raptors. Yeah, we're like a Raptors podcast now.

So, just a bit of Raptors-related news. In an interview that made me feel quite sad, actually, DeMar DeRozan said on Tuesday that he feels like he was this sacrificial lamb for the Raptors and that he had helped lay the foundation for the team's NBA Finals run, which is a fair point. DeRozan spent nine seasons with the Raptors. He became a real Toronto fixture. And he was controversially traded almost a year ago now for Kawhi Leonard.

Here's a bit of what he had to say on Bleacher Reports' Take It There with Taylor Rooks. I know that now this narrative is like, they couldn't get there with DeMar. They can only get there now because they have Kawhi. What is your response to that? Honestly, I don't even think I said this. I probably said this to my own inner circle,

but if it wasn't for all the years and groundwork that I did before then, none of them things would have been possible. So that's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson, and thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy?

Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone. Available now.