Front Burner - Why the GOP wants to impeach Joe Biden

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

On Tuesday, U.S. House Speaker, Republican Kevin McCarthy announced he is launching a formal impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. Republicans accuse Biden and his son, Hunter, of business dealings that benefited their family while he was Vice President. Though McCarthy says he is acting on “credible allegations” that Biden is entrenched in “a culture of corruption,” months of committee investigations led by the GOP failed to uncover any evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Today, CBC Washington Correspondent Paul Hunter joins the show to discuss the inquiry, the allegations, and the politics driving it all. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Tamara Kendacker. On Tuesday, House Speaker Republican Kevin McCarthy did something that he previously said he wouldn't do. I am directing our House committee to open a formal impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. to open a formal impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. This logical next step will give our committees the full power to gather all the facts and answers for the American public.

That's exactly what we want to know. The answers. In the past, McCarthy said it would take a vote of the House to launch a formal impeachment inquiry. But even after months of Republican-led investigations found no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by the president, McCarthy changed his mind. House Republicans have uncovered serious and credible allegations into President Biden's conduct. Taken together, these allegations paint a picture of a culture of corruption. I know another impeachment proceeding is maybe the last thing

anyone wants to be talking about in 2023, but here we are. Today, I'm joined by friend of the show, CBC Washington correspondent Paul Hunter, to talk about the inquiry, the allegations, and the politics driving it all. Hi, Paul. Thanks for being here. Hey, Tamara. So let's first unpack what Kevin McCarthy says this inquiry is all about. He talks about serious and credible allegations about President Biden that, quote unquote, paint a picture of a culture of corruption. What is he talking about? and to underline what it means to have an impeachment inquiry. By calling an inquiry, lawmakers on Capitol Hill get the powers to do a hardcore deep dive on the allegations made by McCarthy in this case and others.

It gives subpoena power, for example. It's kind of like a grand jury or a special grand jury that does all its investigation before making a recommendation to authorities to go any further. An impeachment inquiry does the same thing. It's a tool. It's a powerful tool that could lead to impeachment hearings. So in this case, the overarching allegation is that Joe Biden and his family wrongly benefited from Hunter Biden's business dealings with Joe Biden and the Biden name having been a key influence on that, and as well that other investigations into Hunter Biden have been made to go easy on Hunter Biden because of the power of the Biden name and the influence

of the Biden administration. McCarthy has been very careful when pressed on this to not say that he thinks Biden should be impeached or that these allegations make up impeachable offenses, simply that they should be examined more thoroughly, which itself, intentionally or otherwise, re-raises the point that these allegations have been made for some time now. And to date, the broad consensus is there's no there there. Then again, they'd say that's what the inquiry is all about. Yeah. So let's go through some of these allegations in detail. So there are six or seven that McCarthy's made. And the first one that I wanted to ask you about was the allegation that President Biden lied about his knowledge of his family's foreign business dealings. What is McCarthy talking about there? Yeah, indeed, he's making a lot of allegations against Joe Biden.

On this word, McCarthy uses that word a lot, that Joe Biden lied on that. There are a couple of parts to it. Back in 2020, candidate Joe Biden said that Hunter Biden had not made money in China. That's not true. He did. My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, what are you talking about, China. I have not had, the only guy made money from China is this guy. He also said that he had, quote, never discussed his son's business dealings with his son. he had, quote, never discussed his son's business dealings with his son.

I have never discussed with my son or my brother or anyone else anything having to do with their businesses, period. The truth on that depends on how you define the specifics. There's no evidence of conversations about specific business dealings between the two, but there is some evidence of some conversations involving some of Hunter Biden's business associates. But the same witness who brought that forward also says that those conversations were non-specific. I mean, sometimes with, you know, Joe Biden on a speakerphone, for example, making casual chit chat, nice at ease, that kind of thing. So what to believe on the specifics of that allegation remains the larger question. Right. So there's also this allegation that the Biden family received around $20 million in payments through shell companies is not illegal. It is a common business practice. That said, there is evidence that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's brother, Jimmy, did do this, along with other business associates. The specific question on impeachment, though, remains what did Joe Biden do regards to that? Look at it this way.

Did Hunter Biden trade on his surname to make money? Did he know? And did he use the fact that he was a Biden? Did he use that to earn money? Let's say he did. Let's say he implied with others that his family connections would bear fruit for company X or company Y. The impeachment question remains. Is that on Joe Biden or is that Hunter's ill doing? Is it an impeachable offense if Joe Biden's son does stuff that is ethically unseemly or if he makes promises that Joe Biden never fulfills or even comes close to fulfilling? Is that on Hunter Biden, who isn't the president, or is it mere guilt by parental association, which when it comes to impeachment, most would say isn't guilty of anything? incendiary allegation is that the FBI has an informant who said Joe Biden and Hunter Biden received bribes from the Ukrainian energy company Burisma to fire a prosecutor that

was investigating the company. Tell me about that allegation. Republicans will say this is the point of the inquiry to get to the bottom of things. But on that one, there's split evidence. There is the allegation that an official with Burisma successfully bribed both Joe and Hunter Biden with $5 million. It was a tip to the FBI, indeed, unverified, that brought that forward. But the catch is it's been denied by the same Ukrainian businessmen said to have been involved. So that gets complicated fast. Look, the bottom line on all the allegations from Republicans against Joe Biden is that they've all been out there for ages, right? There's all this

alleged smoke and there has been for some time, but no fire has been found. There is no evidence despite all the searching so far. Yeah. So there are a couple of ongoing criminal investigations into Hunter Biden. He was indicted on gun charges on Thursday. He's also facing tax charges from the Justice Department. But the GOP has also led several committee investigations into the Biden family's business dealings. What has come out of those and are those related to the case that the Republicans are making against Biden in this impeachment inquiry? Recall when Republicans took control of the House after the last midterms. All the talk was how now

there can and will be investigations into Joe Biden and his family's business dealings. In the 118th Congress, this committee will evaluate the status of Joe Biden's relationship with his family's foreign partners and whether he is a president who is compromised or swayed by foreign dollars and influence. And so they did, only to ultimately make the point we just made here, which is that they couldn't find any incriminating evidence of wrongdoing. I hate to sound like a proverbial broken record, broken streaming service.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but that's the headline here. Republicans have been looking and digging and alleging these things throughout Joe Biden's rise to power and during his time in power, but have come up effectively empty. No real evidence of specific corrupt acts by Joe Biden regarding what Hunter Biden was up to. And let's be clear, Hunter Biden is a very troubled person, right? But regardless of whether what Hunter did was right or wrong, try as they have, Joe Biden has, on an evidentiary basis, seemingly remained in the clear. That can't be repeated enough. So the White House has disputed all of this. They've called the impeachment inquiry baseless and extreme politics at its worst. And Democrats like Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman

seem to think that it's a bit of a joke. They're not worried about it. Ask me about this news that Speaker McCarthy has formally launched an impeachment in or has said he's going to. Oh, my God. Really? Oh, my gosh. You know. Oh, it's devastating. It's devastating. Don't do it. Please don't do it. What have the Democrats and Biden's camp said in response to these allegations? Historically, Joe Biden has largely steered clear of wading in on this and for an important strategical reason. Goes to thinking the more he talks about it, the more oxygen is provided for the allegations, even in denying there's any substance to them. That's the political rock and hard place, though. It's sort of a what about our emails thing. The more we heard about Hillary Clinton's emails in 2016 and the

more denials that there was any substance to any of the allegations of wrongdoing, the more voters started to think, gosh, but there must be something there because people keep talking about it, right? But the Biden plan is now changing. He's now spoken out about it. He links the impeachment inquiry to the notion that Kevin McCarthy is calling it to save his own skin. And then Biden also underlined that all he's doing is his job as president. And that puts the impeachment thing, sorry for the pun here, on the back burner. But they also know that no matter what happens with Donald Trump the next many months, re-election for Joe Biden is far from a sure thing.

So all this talk of impeachment is actually a real problem for him. People, you know, they talk about his age. Democrats are nervous that his polling numbers are so low and worry that an impeachment inquiry, no matter where it leads, is one more drag on the Joe Biden brand at a time when that's the last thing they need. So it's a fine line. They certainly are pushing back now. You know, they're not calling it a witch hunt. That's been taken. Their term is goose chase. And like with Trump and his troubles, they're trying to fundraise it off it as well. The point is they're likely to get a little more aggressive on this than they

have been. Yes, it gives oxygen to it all. But the latest thinking seems to be that they ignore it at their peril. So this is the third potential impeachment we're talking about in the last few years, Trump twice. Now this, it seems like impeachment is having a real moment in Washington. But how does what's happening to Joe Biden differ from what happened to Donald Trump, you think? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, a lot has been made of Kevin McCarthy arbitrarily simply ordering this inquiry. But that's exactly what Nancy Pelosi did with Trump in the lead up to his impeachments. Back then, there was no vote in the House on whether to have an inquiry. She just directed that it go forward. The difference being that back when Pelosi did it, McCarthy himself slammed it. And now here he is

doing it. But to the bigger picture, that we're even talking about impeachment again, look at it this way. The world's most overused phrase is the new normal. But that's what this process, the impeachment process, seems to become in the U.S. The facts are quite different, but the impression is the same vis-a-vis Trump. You do this to our president, we'll do the same to yours. Eye for an eye. And that sends a very complicated signal to the rest of the world that the U.S. is forever in political disarray. Does anyone really think that the next time a Republican is elected president, the Democrats won't do the same thing back at them. Eye for an eye for an eye, you know, and so it goes. And here's what isn't happening.

There are no crowds marching down the streets of America chanting, stop all this impeachment baloney, because the political divide is so baked in here. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast,

Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couops. So you kind of touched on this, but if they have no evidence and their investigations haven't uncovered anything criminal yet, why are the Republicans doing this? And I wonder if we could start with Kevin McCarthy. So he's been saying for weeks that he supports an impeachment inquiry to give congressional investigators more power to dig into Biden's family finances. But he said he wouldn't move forward with impeachment without a vote. Now he's gone and unilaterally started an inquiry, but he says he hasn't changed his position. I never changed my position. Why do you think he flip-flopped?

Remember the night McCarthy was elected Speaker of the House? All those votes, late, late, late into the night. And then he barely squeaked in. Well, McCarthy knows he's on thin ice broadly in that job. He also knows he's under threat to be booted, almost at the whim of any of those on the far right who eventually stood by him that night. But only as long as they feel he's doing right by them. The path forward for the House of Representatives is to either bring you into immediate total compliance or remove you pursuant to a motion to vacate the chair.

There has been insufficient accountability for the Biden crime family, and instead of cutting spending to raise the debt limit, you relied on budgetary gimmicks... Not to get too far in the weeds here again, but once again, the U.S. is approaching a battle to get a budget bill passed and avoid a government shutdown. And there is strong pushback on spending from the far right who have their own demands on spending, which if not met could threaten McCarthy's job.

Many of those same lawmakers in the far right also want to target Biden. So the thinking is that McCarthy went down the impeachment inquiry path to appease them in the hopes of making the budget bill process easier. Did it work? Right? You know, we'll find out, though, you know,

one of the most troublesome Republican lawmakers for McCarthy, Matt Gaetz from Florida, seemed not super excited about the inquiry announcement, calling it a mere baby step. Now, moments ago, Speaker McCarthy endorsed an impeachment inquiry. This is a baby step following weeks of pressure from House conservatives to do more. We must move faster. But the thinking is that this is the line McCarthy is trying to walk to, to appease enough people to keep himself in that job. Yeah. So there are obviously Republicans who support this, like Pennsylvania Congressman Scott Perry got pretty defensive when he was asked about whether there's any evidence to support this. These things are not normal. And it alludes to not only just widespread corruption,

but money laundering, if not influence peddling itself. And we also have the president or the vice president at the time on record saying that the prosecutor was fired. Right. Because the prosecutor was going after the company that his son was working on. Some of these Republicans have even campaigned on it. Right. What is their motivation here? Part of their motivation is Donald Trump. Let's be honest. Donald Trump views politics as zero-sum, right? Everything bad for his opponent is good for him. Republicans broadly remain, by and large, happy to do his bidding. Trump seems to suggest this is the path they should be going. So here they go. What if it doesn't end up with Biden being impeached? Nobody knows. The bottom line is these are such crazed times in US politics. The old school thinking would be that if Biden doesn't end up getting impeached, Democrats could say, see, I told you so.

Goose hunt failed because there was nothing more than smoke and partisan nonsense. Republicans play games instead of focusing on what matters to Americans. But on that, Republicans could say what they've been saying, which is, if only we could dig deeper, if only the truth could come out, we'd have an answer. The whole thing has the feel of the same old, same old in so many ways. Wash, rinse, repeat. Trump was impeached, though not convicted, and more than 70 million Americans voted for him anyway, next time they had the chance. Biden may or may not go down that path, but safe to say more people are concerned with how he has governed and whether he's too old to do it again than they are on whether he gets impeached or not. effect of the repeated impeachment process is that for many, it all just becomes background noise, stuff that happens on Capitol Hill, regardless of the outcome,

because this is just the way politics have kind of devolved in this country. So there is an election in 2024, and that's obviously on Joe Biden's mind. Are there any lessons we can take from Bill Clinton's impeachment in 1998? What kind of impact did that end up having on him? Because Bill Clinton, while he was impeached, not convicted in the Senate, but impeached, he came out on the other end all right. His numbers went up afterward. Different circumstance. I think part of the thinking there was, you know, arguably his defense was that he committed perjury, broadly speaking, to save his marriage. And is this really the kind of thing that we want to impeach a president over? And so there was some sympathy for him, notwithstanding the sort of sordidness of what happened in the Oval Office. But does that apply to Joe Biden? It's a different circumstance now. As I say, the Biden people are looking at that. Can they turn it to his advantage if he comes out on the other end? And once again, Republicans aren't able to put evidence forward that actually proves something, maybe, or maybe not. And ultimately, what do you think is going to happen here? What's the likelihood of Joe Biden actually getting impeached? He could well be impeached if Republicans vote down the party line. They do

control the House of Representatives if it gets to impeachment hearings. There's a couple of big ifs in that sentence, but nonetheless, if it were to get to that, he could well be impeached. But then it goes to the Senate, as it did with Donald Trump, and Democrats control the Senate, and there is zero chance that he would be convicted in the Senate, just like with Donald Trump. But this gets back to the politics of the day in America. Completely down party lines. Not a chance.

So in a sense, you can't blame voters for stepping back and saying, this is just a dog and pony show. This is just politics. This is just the swamp. Politics as usual on Capitol Hill. It's political games for the theoretical benefit of some instead of dealing with issues that matter to people like inflation, interest rates, jobs, healthcare, education. You know, the list goes on

and far down the bottom of it are things like this. Yeah, it is hard to believe that we're talking about yet another impeachment proceeding. But thank you so much for walking us through this. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. All right, that's all for now. This week, Front Burner was produced by Imogen Burchard, Shannon Higgins, Lauren Donnelly, and Derek Vanderwyk. Our sound design was by Mackenzie Cameron and Sam McNulty.

Our music is by Joseph Chavison. Our senior producer is Elaine Chow. And our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos. I'm Tamara Kandaker. Thanks so much for listening. Front Burner will be back on Monday.