Front Burner - Why the WHO is worried about ‘vaccine nationalism’

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

The World Health Organization is urging the global community to join a pact by the end of this month, where wealthier countries would commit to sharing potential COVID-19 vaccines with developing countries, and with each other. It’s an attempt to stop countries from engaging in what the WHO calls “vaccine nationalism.” Today, CBC science and health reporter Emily Chung joins us to talk about what vaccine nationalism is, and why many health experts worry it could threaten the global response to COVID-19.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Josh Bloch. Last week in a press briefing, the chief of the World Health Organization made an urgent plea to the global community. We need to prevent vaccine nationalism. And for this reason, WHO is working with governments and the private sector.

The WHO is calling on countries around the world to join a pact by August 31st, asking higher income countries to commit to sharing potential vaccines with developing countries and with each other. Like an orchestra, we need all instruments to be played in harmony. We need an orchestra. We need all instruments to be played in harmony. One or two instruments playing by themselves just won't suffice when the world is waiting and listening intently. But many wealthier countries are already trying to secure enough vaccine supply for their own citizens. And there's a fear that if those supplies aren't shared equally, it could create major problems, not just for developing countries, but for the whole world.

Today, CBC science and health reporter Emily Chung is here to talk about vaccine nationalism and why some health experts believe it could pose a threat to the global fight against COVID-19. This is FrontBurner. Hi, Emily. Great to have you back on the podcast. Hi, Josh. So, first of all, what exactly is this concept of vaccine nationalism? idea that a lot of countries might be looking out for their own countries and their own populations

in terms of getting access to a vaccine before they help any other countries or even allow any vaccines that they might have to leave the country. Governments are under pressure to secure supplies for their populations. And it's very possible that those countries will have a stake in getting access to those first doses. We are only as strong as the weakest link. So if epidemics are going on anywhere in the world, that threatens the entire world and not just those regions. Right. And how could this vaccine nationalism get in the way of eradicating COVID-19 globally? Well, it's a global pandemic, and there are outbreaks in various places, and they're feeding new outbreaks in places that have had it under control.

And this is how we can expect it to continue. So what the WHO says is nobody is safe until we're all safe. Vaccine nationalism only helps the virus. Our only way out of this pandemic is together. So I want to understand how this vaccine nationalism works. I mean, for wealthier countries right now that are trying to secure vaccines for their own populations, how are they going about that? Well, there are three main ways they can do it.

graduations. How are they going about that? Well, there are three main ways they can do it. One is by providing funding for vaccine projects within their own countries, vaccines that are being developed in their own countries. For example, the U.S. has a program called Operation Warp Speed, where they're throwing billions of dollars at a bunch of vaccines being developed in the U.S. The Great National Project will bring together the best of American industry and innovation, the full resources of the United States government, and the excellence and precision of the United States military. We have the military totally involved. Another is to manufacture the vaccine in their own country and prevent it from being exported until everyone in the population, in their own population,

has had access to the vaccine or that they're satisfied with the level of access in their own country. And this has happened in previous pandemics, which has delayed, you know, the vaccine getting to other countries. The concern is that the vaccine supply and allocation in this pandemic will echo that of the H1N1 flu virus in 2009 and 10, when rich nations bought up the available supply of vaccines, leaving poor countries with none. They can also make deals to reserve or pre-order large numbers of doses, which is what a lot of countries have done, including Canada. So Canada recently announced a deal with Moderna and Pfizer, which are two companies in the U.S., to reserve large numbers of doses of the vaccine for Canadians.

These agreements with Moderna and Pfizer are indicative of our aggressive approach to secure access to vaccine candidates now, so that Canadians are at the front of the line when a vaccine becomes available. So it means that wealthy countries, including Canada, are spending huge amounts of money on these vaccine candidates, even without knowing if they're going to work yet. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Well, I want to ask you more about Canada, because a number of Canadian labs are developing vaccine candidates right now. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Canadians will have access to these vaccines because of what you've been talking about in terms of Canada's capacity to manufacture them. Right. And a lot of them are actually at very early stages right now. So Canada, yeah, really has a lot of vaccine candidates under development, but only one of them has reached clinical trials. That's Quebec City-based Medicago. The trial is a study of 180 healthy men and women

between 18 and 55 years old. The company expects to see first results by October, but its CEO is cautioning that even if the vaccine works, it's not expected to be a cure-all. And their main manufacturing plant right now is in the U.S. So even they've been pretty upfront about the fact that, you know, just because this is a vaccine being developed in Canada doesn't mean that Canadians will get first access. And they've said, you know, funny things happen at borders during events like pandemics. No one is going to have capacity to cover the world. So it's going to be a multifaceted solution. There are going to be multiple companies involved.

There'll be multiple products involved. And I think that's the way it has to be in the early days in order to make sure that we have the coverage that we need. So, yeah, Canada's manufacturing capacity for vaccines right now is limited. We've heard reports recently, there was a report about the fact that that's even impeded vaccine research and vaccine development, because obviously you need to manufacture vaccine in order to be able to use it to test on people to begin with. So I mean, it sounds like that's just one way that Canada will be reliant on other countries cooperating with us to get a vaccine supply. But the WHO, it sounds like they're mainly focused on making sure developing countries will get vaccines. I mean,

why is that? Why is their focus on developing nations? You know, developing countries, most of them don't have much in the way of development of vaccines, manufacturing of vaccines. They certainly don't have, you know, millions of dollars to set aside to pre-order things. So they're probably not going to be the first to get access. But at the same time,

they're some of the most vulnerable to this pandemic. They don't have the resources to control the pandemic in the ways that other countries have done. For example, you know, in Canada, we've had these lockdowns. You know, we have been giving assistance to people who've had to close their businesses and have lost their jobs and so on. Developing nations also have other issues. They often have lots of people living in crowded conditions. So those are the places where the pandemic could really spread and continue to spread and take a huge toll. and take a huge toll.

As a global community, we must work together to make sure that people around the world have access to vaccinations, especially the most vulnerable. COVID-19 has demonstrated that diseases know no borders, so it should come as no shock to anyone that the health of our citizens depends on the health of everyone, everywhere. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection.

Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Well, so I know that there are a few big initiatives to try and distribute COVID-19 vaccines more fairly to try and counteract the forces of vaccine nationalism. And the biggest one is the World Health Organization's program. It's called the COVAX facility. Can you explain how does that work? Well, it's basically a program where countries

can sign on, two kinds of countries. So first of all, there are self-funding countries that pool a very large amount of money to invest in a huge number of candidates and to try and speed up their development. So any of the countries that invest in this will be able to get, if one of these is successful or multiple ones are successful, they're guaranteed enough vaccine for 20% of their populations. Whatever vaccine is proven to be safe and effective, all countries within the facility will be able to access them. within the facility will be able to access them. Most importantly, it is the mechanism to enable a globally coordinated rollout. And there are also in this program beneficiary countries that are partnering with these, quote, self-funding countries. And those include low-income countries such as Afghanistan, Haiti, Ethiopia,

and lower middle-income countries such as India, Philippines, and the Ukraine. And they are also guaranteed enough vaccine for 20% of their populations. I mean, 20% doesn't seem like a significant size of the population. First of all, who is the WHO suggesting should be prioritized in terms of the 20% of the population that would receive the vaccine? Well, right now they're saying frontline health care workers, which I think is pretty obvious. Most countries will be prioritizing that, and also vulnerable populations.

Initially, when there will be limited supply, it's important to provide the vaccine to those at highest risk around the world. This includes health workers as they are on the front lines in this pandemic. It also includes people over 65 years old. So they specifically mention seniors, but it could depend also on the circumstances of your country. Like each country prioritizes groups that, you know, maybe places they've seen outbreaks. I mean, in Canada, for example, we've seen outbreaks in long-term care homes, in meatpacking plants, you know,

among migrant farm workers. These might be some groups that we might think about targeting. Is that a tough pitch to make to especially the higher income countries that they're only going to be providing enough vaccine for 20 percent of the population? I presume all countries are interested in finding, you know, having enough vaccine supply to inoculate their entire population. I mean, what the WHO is promising right now is that you have to remember that all of these are vaccine candidates. None of them have been approved. Some of them are in still in fairly early stages of development. So at this point, it's hard to tell which ones are actually going to make it. And so it's a very risky time in development. But at the same time, we don't want any of these candidates to not go to development if they could be promising because they don't have enough funding. So this

is what the WHO is promising. First of all, that they're going to support all the front running candidates or a lot of the front running candidates to make sure that they get developed as quickly as possible to the end. And, you know, countries are gambling, like when they invest in any given one of these vaccine candidates, because we don't know which ones are going to make it. They could put all their money into several that and none of them could make it. Right. So basically, by pooling our resources, the world would have a much better chance at developing a vaccine that's actually effective.

That's right. One of the experts I talked to likened it to diversifying your stock portfolio. So what the WHO is saying is, you know, this is a much bigger portfolio of vaccines than any one country could possibly invest in. It's pooling risk for countries that want to invest. So any country that supports COVAX has a better chance of getting a successful vaccine candidate than going after a single one on their own. So am I correct also in saying that public health officials and scientists are saying, look, there might not be a single vaccine, there might be no silver bullet that's going to inoculate the whole population. We might need multiple vaccines to help different demographics.

So this would give an opportunity to be invested in multiple potential vaccines, right? That's right. And they're all different, not just in terms of effectiveness, but some of them might be more suitable for some circumstances than others. For example, some of them travel better. Some of them are easier to store, some of them might be easier to manufacture, and some of them might require fewer doses. So these vaccines are all different, and you never know which one is going to work for your particular circumstance. Right.

So the World Health Organization said on Monday that 172 countries are interested in participating in COVAX. Canada is actually one of them. But there's some major economies that haven't said they're going to participate. The U.S. is one, and there's reporting from Reuters that suggests the European Commission is urging its members not to take part either. What does that mean if we don't have buy-in from some of these other major developed nations? Well, the WHO is emphasizing that the participating countries actually do represent 70% of the world population. So that's quite a lot of the world, first of all. Secondly, some of these countries that

may not be participating directly in this program, at some level they are participating because some of their vaccines are the ones involved. And that may be also why some of them are reluctant to participate because they've already invested in a number of the vaccines that are in the portfolio. And maybe they have blown their vaccine budget and don't want to spend it again on the same vaccine. So is there a risk that without the United States or European countries buying into COVAX that it might not be as effective? Well, I mean, they're raising money from all kinds of places to try and be able to get as many doses as possible. So aside from the participating countries, they're also going after private donors and I think nonprofit organizations as well. So, I mean, either way, regardless of how successful it is,

it's a program that looks like it has the potential to at least try to level the playing field, which is more than we've had in previous pandemics. I saw that one criticism of COVAX is that although all participating countries are supposed to receive, as you mentioned, enough vaccines for 20% of their populations, I understand that wealthier countries are still allowed to strike these separate deals with vaccine manufacturers. And in effect, they could scoop up the vaccine supply before the lower income nations could even receive their share. I mean that is always a risk. The vaccines are constantly being manufactured. What that would do would be to delay when they would get it. That is one of

the reasons why the European Union when they're trying to to strike these vaccine deals, they're avoiding vaccines that are manufactured in the U.S. because they think that could delay their supplies. But it's correct to say that there isn't a governing body that ultimately determines who will get what vaccine. I mean, it is a bit of the Wild West. I mean, it is up to any nation, especially the wealthier nations, to decide. They have a lot of the Wild West. I mean, it is up to any nation, especially the wealthier nations, to decide. They have a lot of power to decide how much they want to keep for their own population versus how much they want to help others. Right, that's true. But there are so many vaccine candidates under development that hopefully there will be enough of them that

are successful and that they will have continuous manufacturing so that ultimately, in the end, everyone will be able to get access. So this is the concept that WHO and partners are advancing, are hoping that we can convince as many countries as possible to join this. And if it happens, then as a sign of global solidarity, it would also mean that perhaps for the first time, we would have a situation where people, regardless of where they live, will get the vaccines as they become available at the same time. I mean, I feel like what we're talking about here are these two very different versions of how the world might look in a year or two years. On the one hand, we have this force of vaccine nationalism, where countries really focus on protection of their own population. And then the other hand is a world where there's

much more international cooperation and collaboration. Yeah, yeah. And in fact, a world with more cooperation, in theory, should get the pandemic under control faster. Because anytime it's out of control in some part of the world that poses a risk to other parts of the world, you have to remember that even when a vaccine becomes available to a given population in a given country, it's going to take time to vaccinate everybody. The vaccine doesn't work in everybody. There may be certain populations that can't be vaccinated. And so, you know, they'll remain at risk until it's eliminated in other parts of the world as well. Right. And I guess that's what the whole argument against vaccine nationalism boils down to, that this motivation to protect your own

population might actually be putting them at greater risk, that unless you're thinking about how to stop this pandemic globally, you might not be protecting the citizens of your country. That's right. And that's one of the arguments that the WHO is making as well, that, you know, this is an opportunity for countries that can afford it to act as global citizens and get this global pandemic under control more quickly. Emily, thank you so much for explaining this to me. Oh, you after practice, Raptors point guard Fred VanVleet spoke to the press.

But instead of talking about playoff basketball, he spoke about Jacob Blake, a black man shot in the back by police in Wisconsin on Sunday. One reporter asked Van Vliet how he makes sense of the shooting, which was caught on video. Van Vliet turned the question back on the reporter and then made this statement. At some point, like,

we are the ones always with the microphones in our face we're the ones always who have to make a stand but like you know we're the oppressed ones and the responsibility falls on us to make a change to stop being oppressed you know what i'm saying like that's that's what it boils down to that's my point i asked you the question like at what point does it do we not have to speak about it anymore? Like, are we going to hold everybody accountable or we're just going to put the spotlight on black people or black athletes or entertainers and say, what are you doing? What are you contributing to your community? What are you putting on the line? And then us, too, we got to take responsibility as well.

Like, what are we willing to give up? Do we actually give a **** about what's going on or does it is it just cool to wear you know black lives matter on on the backdrop or wear a t-shirt like what does that really mean is it really doing anything so um i don't have the answers for you today but i just i think we're all uh I think we're all, I'll speak for myself, I'm in a different place today, you know, just emotionally speaking. On Tuesday, the family attorney for Jacob Blake revealed that he's paralyzed, and that it would, quote, take a miracle for him to walk again. That's all for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner.