Front Burner - Will Canada act after Jamal Khashoggi's murder?

Episode Date: November 23, 2018

As the political fallout of journalist Jamal Khashoggi's brutal murder becomes clearer, we look into Canada's response to Saudi Arabia with help from Canadian Press reporter Andy Blatchford.

My name is Graham Isidor. I have a progressive eye disease called keratoconus. Unmaying I'm losing my vision has been hard, but explaining it to other people has been harder. Lately, I've been trying to talk about it. Short Sighted is an attempt to explain what vision loss feels like by exploring how it sounds. By sharing my story, we get into all the things you don't see

about hidden disabilities. Short Sighted, from CBC's Personally, available now. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. It's Friday, and the close of a week, where it now looks like the story of Jamal Khashoggi has come to some kind of resolution. I don't mean to suggest that all the questions have been answered. But by resolution, I do mean the two of the most powerful players in this case,

Saudi Arabia and the United States, seem to have closed the door on it. It is what it is. We are with Saudi Arabia. We're staying. Saudi Arabia and the United States seem to have closed the door on it. It is what it is. We are with Saudi Arabia. We're staying with Saudi Arabia. How Canada decides to act is still really an open question, and we'll talk about that today. But first, this story has taken a lot of turns. So let's get caught up. So let's get caught up. It's October 2nd. Jamal Khashoggi, a journalist and vocal critic of the Saudi regime,

Right now there is no room for any political dissent. enters into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. At 1.14 p.m. a camera showed him going inside. His fiancée waits for him outside. But then she never sees him alive again. Four days later, Turkish officials say they believe he was killed in the consulate. Then, a few days after that, Turkish media, they release images of what they say was an assassination squad arriving in the country. A team of up to 15 people dispatched. Officials identified an expert on gathering DNA evidence and dissecting human bodies.

On October 12th, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the situation is a concern. Expressing serious issues with these reports. But that his government would respect an existing arms deal with the kingdom. The previous government signed a contract. We respected that contract. About a week after that, Saudi authorities say Khashoggi died in a fistfight inside the consulate. This was an operation that was a rogue operation. They made the mistake when they killed Jamal Khashoggi in the consulate and they tried to cover up for it. Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Krista Freeland condemns the killing of Khashoggi.

The Foreign Affairs Minister said in a statement, the Saudi explanation so far lacked consistency and credibility. October 31. A top Turkish prosecutor says Khashoggi was strangled as soon as he entered the Saudi consulate. It says the planned killing saw the Saudi critic suffocated and then his body dismembered. November 12. A spokesperson for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service says Canada's spy chief heard the recordings of Khashoggi's killing and then briefed the prime minister. Canada has been fully briefed up on what Turkey had to share. Three days later, Saudi Arabia recommends a death penalty for five of the 11 people charged with ordering and carrying out the killing. We have identified the person who ordered the murder and those who performed it.

They are five people whose confessions matched. The U.S. launches economic sanctions targeting 17 Saudi officials it believes were involved in the journalist's death. The most senior official named here is Saud al-Qahtani. Treasury Department saying he's a senior official of the government of Saudi Arabia. Then a week ago, the Washington Post reports that the CIA has concluded that Saudi Arabia's crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, ordered Khashoggi's assassination. President Trump facing a diplomatic dilemma.

The crown prince has repeatedly told the president he was not involved. Tuesday, Donald Trump says the U.S. will stand by Saudi Arabia. They have nothing definitive. The arms sales will continue and that the crown prince won't face any new punishments. It's all about America first. We're not going to give up hundreds of billions of dollars in orders and let Russia, China and everybody else have them. And that brings us to today. Where does this all leave Canada and its relationship with Saudi Arabia? Hi, I'm Andy Blatchford and I'm a Canadian press reporter in Ottawa. Hi, Andy.

Hello. So how has Canada specifically reacted to the Jamal Khashoggi murder? So how has Canada specifically reacted to the Jamal Khashoggi murder? Well, Canada is among those that have had strong words for this case, for the murder. And they've also, you know, raised the questions about credibility of the investigation. They've been calling for more transparency in the whole thing. You know, they've called the murder horrific and atrocious. Canada has a strong record of standing up for human rights around the world, very much including in Saudi Arabia.

It's important to establish clear facts about what has happened. This is an important issue. But when it comes to concrete measures, Canada is one of those countries that has yet to take firm, tangible steps in response to this entire case. What's Canada's position right now? What are they saying that they're doing right now when it comes to Saudi Arabia? So Canada is in a unique position because it has this $15 billion contract.

It's had it for a couple of years now. And it's a huge contract to sell light armored vehicles, military vehicles to Saudi Arabia. So right now they say they are reviewing this contract. They've said it's a very difficult contract to get out of. Possible penalties would be in the billions of dollars. And could cost billions of dollars to back away from. But that is something we are looking at right now. to back away from.

But that is something we are looking at right now. So at the moment, Canada says it's reviewing its export permits, which are used to allow for the sale of arms from Canada to other countries. So it's in the process of looking at those again. And while it's doing that, it says it won't issue new export permits to Saudi Arabia. You know, the Canadian government has been coming under quite a bit of pressure domestically to react. There have been calls from all over the place in Canada, whether it's to just tear up this agreement for these armed vehicles, these light-armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia, and take the hit, whatever it is, even if it's billions of dollars, and even if it does cost jobs in Canada. And others have actually called on Canada to follow even what the United States has already done and sanction

some of the top officials, some of the people potentially involved in Saudi Arabia as a way of punishment. Right. There have been these arguments for Canada to do something more. There has been a push for Canada to sanction people in the country to pull out of the lab deal. And Canadian political scientist and writer David Moskrop has argued for this in the pages of The Washington Post. We spoke to him today. Well, given what we know about what happened to Khashoggi, as well as what we know about the war in Yemen, Well, given what we know about what happened to Khashoggi, as well as what we know about the war in Yemen, Canada should halt arms exports to Saudi Arabia, suspend future exports, arms exports to Saudi Arabia,

and sanction all the way up the chain of the Saudi royal family, members who were linked to this murder. Halting arms exports would impact Saudi Arabia's behavior by introducing a cost on them, a huge hassle to have to find another arms exporter. And it also sends an important moral message and imposes a moral sanction. It sends a message to the world that it's not okay for brutal regimes to murder journalists and conduct human rights violations in countries they're bombing. It starts to build a coalition of countries that stand up for human rights and democracy in action,

not just in words like Canada keeps saying it will. in action, not just in words, like Canada keeps saying it will. For us here in Canada, this also happens in an even broader context. You know, we were in a feud with Saudi Arabia earlier this year. Foreign Affairs Minister Christopher Phelan called for the release of human rights activists in Saudi Arabia, including Samar Badawi, whose family members have fled to Canada. And that erupted. So we're not so far off from that, right? Right. That was just in August. And it turned into a very big diplomatic dispute by Canadian standards, certainly. These tweets, this criticism of the Saudi regime created a firestorm of a

diplomatic spat with Saudi Arabia. The Canadian ambassador to Saudi Arabia was expelled. Saudi Arabia removed its own envoy, top envoy, from Ottawa. Saudi Arabia also recalled about 15,000 of its post-secondary students who are studying in Canada. And that's a big part of the economic ties between the two countries. It brings a lot of money to Canadian institutions. Saudi Arabia also said it would freeze new trade and investment deals. So it turned into quite a large feud,

and it hadn't been resolved when the Khashoggi case blew up itself. For the first time, state officials confirmed that journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead. So this country already has lost some of its relationship with Saudi Arabia over the last six months. And now it's culminated in the death of Jamal Khashoggi. So when this government is trying to weigh whether or not they want to cancel this arms deal worth billions of dollars. What do you think they're weighing? They're weighing several things. One would be the immediate cost.

As we've heard, the Prime Minister himself has said that it would cost many billions of dollars to rip up this contract. So that would be one initial cost. That's a very large amount of money for the Canadian government. Also, there are direct jobs tied to this contract in London, Ontario. These are manufacturing jobs. These are well-paying jobs. This is a part of the country that has suffered under changes in the economy over the years. So these are important jobs. And there's spinoff jobs beyond that, several thousand more in the community and surrounding area.

So the government would have to weigh those as well. You know, these are people's livelihoods, of course. And with this, it also brings the whole political calculation. You know, if they decide to rip up this contract and take the economic punishment from it, you know, they'll have to answer to Canadians. But at the same time, they will also have to answer for Canadians if they do nothing and they sit on their hands. So they're in a bit of a difficult spot. And of course, there's an election coming in less than a year. And, you know, this could play out in the local ridings around London, for example, but it could play out more sort of broadly across the country

if people are concerned enough about how Canada is sort of handling itself and how firm it's being with this entire case. So there's a lot of things for the Canadian government to think about here. Andy, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you so much. You're welcome. That's all for today. FrontBurner comes to you from CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show is produced by Chris Berube, Elaine Chao, and Shannon Higgins,

with sound design by Derek Vanderwyk. Our music is by Joseph Chabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McCabe-Locos. And I'm your host, Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog.

She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone. Available now.