Front Burner - Will laws apply in Ontario’s ‘special economic zones’?

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

The Protect Ontario by Unleashing our Economy Act – also known as Bill 5 – aims to fast track mining projects in Ontario and gives the government the power to create 'special economic zones' that would grant the government the power to exempt companies from still-unspecified laws.Ontario Premier Doug Ford has framed these measures as necessary to protect the province against the threat of Donald Trump's trade war. But the sweeping power it affords the government has Indigenous groups, the Civil Liberties Association and more sounding the alarm.Mike Crawley is a senior reporter with CBC News covering Ontario and he's here to break down the bill, the controversy around it and whether 'cutting red tape' is really the answer to the economic threat posed by Donald Trump.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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That's Ontario Premier Doug Ford addressing critics of his new bill, the Protect Ontario by Unleashing Our Economy Act, or Bill 5. Ford says it's needed to kickstart Ontario's economy by cutting red tape and that it's urgent because of Trump's trade war. We're doing it because we need to do it. If not, we're gonna get annihilated. The bill aims to streamline approval for mining projects, removes environmental protections, and introduces so-called special economic zones, which gives the government the power to exempt companies from certain laws. The bill has been met with heavy opposition, particularly from indigenous groups across the province, which gives the government the power to exempt companies from certain laws.

The bill has been met with heavy opposition, particularly from indigenous groups across the province who say it ignores their constitutional rights. They want the bill killed entirely. Our treaty is not red tape. Our rights are not red tape. And the rights of our children to have a prosperous future is not red tape. Mike Crawley is a senior reporter with CBC News covering Ontario. He's here to break down the bill, the controversy around it, and whether cutting red tape is really the answer to the economic threat posed by Donald Trump. Hey Mike, thanks for joining us. Hi John, always good to be on Frontburner. by Donald Trump.

Hey Mike, thanks for joining us. Hi John, always good to be on Frontburner. So Mike, Bill 5 is, I guess I'm searching for the right word here. I don't know, sweeping, wide ranging. What would you say? Yeah, look, that word sweeping gets overused, I think about legislation, but in this case, Bill 5 is absolutely sweeping.

I mean, it would do so many different things. And so like quick highlights, it would scrap the existing Endangered Species Act that Ontario has and replace it with a version that environmental critics say is really watered down. It would create a fast track system to approve new mining projects in Ontario. It would allow a particular landfill to get built right on the edge of a town without an environmental assessment. And probably the biggest thing, I think the most powerful piece in this bill is it would give cabinet the authority to create something called special economic zones, which would be places where the companies or projects

that operate in them would be exempted from various provincial laws. I want to talk a bit more about these special economic zones that you mentioned. I mean, I think this is one of the things that's really grabbed people's attention about the bill. Can you tell us how these zones would work? Yeah.

So, uh, one of the things is that we kind of don't exactly know how they're going to work because it's a first of its kind thing. There's this doesn't exist anywhere else in Canada. So what the legislation does is it gives Ontario's cabinet, uh, the power to designate any location in the province to be a special economic zone. And then the minister has the power to give the company or the project,

whatever's going on in that special economic zone, free reign to not have to comply with certain laws. And there's no, there's no actual limits in the legislation on what those exemptions could be. So you got a situation where it could be, for instance, okay, you don't have to pay the minimum wage. You don't have to follow, you know, the labor

code, you don't have to follow the Ontario human rights code. You're exempted from complying with environmental laws or even, you know, maybe you're allowed to be exempted from the municipal bylaw that says you can't make construction noise 24 hours a day. So it's a complete blank slate and there's no actual criteria in the law about how these projects would be selected. I mean, what about basic charter rights? Would they be exempted as well? in the law about how these projects would be, would be selected.

I mean, what about basic charter rights? Uh, would they be exempted as well? I mean, that would be the kind of thing that would be absolutely face a charter challenge, right? You can't sort of carve out an area of Ontario or Canada that says, oh, well, the constitution doesn't apply here. It is the kind of thing that would face a

potential legal challenge. This idea of carving out zones where businesses can operate with, with fewer laws, fewer restrictions, it's not new, right? Like there are, these kinds of zones are found all over the world in places like Indonesia, Dubai, China, which has used them to really turbocharge its economy.

Do you have a sense Mike of where these Ontario special economic zones might be located or what they might be used for? Yeah, so Premier Doug Ford, when he was asked about this, the two specific projects that he named were the Ring of Fire, which is a major mineral deposit up in Northern Ontario, in the far north of Ontario. We have upwards to a trillion dollars in the Ring of Fire, and we aren't sitting around for the next 20, 30 years to get that out. And the other one he mentioned is right in Toronto, the idea he has of building a tunnel under Highway 401.

So like you mentioned, the Ford government, uh, has said that the, the first special economic zone would be the ring of fire. That's region in Northern Ontario, but they've since backtrack on that slightly saying they won't move forward until it consults with all the first nations in the area. Now the ring of fire, as far as I know, it's, it's been kind of a white whale for decades for,

for various Ontario governments who have tried to make mining projects happen there. What is the enduring appeal of this area to the government? There's a bunch of minerals there. So it's a, it's a huge deposit. You got to think though about how far it is away

from existing infrastructure, John. It's 500 kilometres from the nearest all season road. And this is deep in the swampy Muskeg of Northern Ontario. It's in the treaty territory of several First Nations. The government's been talking about this, both conservative and liberal governments here in Ontario have been talking about this since like 2010. Delta McGinty, the former premier was hyping it as Ontario's oil sands, but the logistics involved in actually trying to get those minerals out of the ground, out of the muskeg and getting them to market. For the first 10 years or so of the Ring of Fire, all the talk was about a mineral called

chromite. That's not even being mentioned now. And now it's all about critical minerals like lithium and copper and nickel and the potential for those to be, to be exploited. But also too, the environmental implications of digging, you know, massive underground mines in this area of the Muskeg, that area is a massive carbon sink, right? It's like the lungs of, of Northern Ontario. And so if you start mining there, that's got implications for, for, for things like, like global warming. What would the bill do concretely to kind of

make that dream of a, of a mining hub of, of Ontario's oil sands become a reality? Yeah. So there's a couple of other things beyond that special economic zone chunk of the legislation. So there's a section of bill five that would amend Ontario's mining act. And basically what it would do, John, is, is

create kind of a fast track system, uh, for mining approvals. And so, uh, the government says that right now, the process to get a mine approved in Ontario is just way too slow. It's, it's too bureaucratic. You got to go through too many different ministries.

And so what the, the legislation would do is create what Stephen Lecce, the Minister of Energy and Mines calls. One project, one window, they come through the Ministry of Energy and Mines today, not 19 ministries of approvals. We shepherd the approvals right across the government enterprise. So the end result is a streamlined, accelerated process. but obviously we're going to fully respect our obligations to get this right. So instead of having to apply to, let's say, seven different ministries to get all of your stamps of approval and your permits, the mining company would go through one process. And so the government says that this would speed up the approval of a mine from roughly four years right now to two years.

But you kind of put that in the context of how long it typically takes for a mine to go from discovery to production, you know, in Canada or anywhere in the world, you'll often hear, um, people in the government say, oh, it takes 15 years for a mine to get approved. Well, that's, that's what it takes just about anywhere and the approval process is only, is

only part of it. You were talking about the, the potential environmental impact opening up the ring of fire to mining would have it being kind of the lungs of, of the province, so to speak. What does the bill do to existing environmental regulations that are in place? Probably the most significant change on the

environmental side is, uh, with the, the endangered species act, the government is giving itself the power to overrule the existing, uh, independent scientific committee that decides whether a species is endangered or threatened or, or at risk. So that's a, that's a pretty dramatic change, right? Like right now under the endangered species act, this committee says this person or at risk. So that's a, that's a pretty dramatic change, right?

Like right now under the endangered species act, this committee says this particular species of toad is, is threatened or endangered and therefore a bunch of rules kick in around what a company needs to do when it's building something, whether it's a housing or mines or a highway. If cabinet has the power to overrule that committee, that really opens up the door for

those companies to do whatever they want in that space. Let's not take three or four years to get a permit. Let's not put the barriers up because there's a grasshopper in a field and everyone has to stop and wait for that grasshopper. It's ridiculous.

The other change, it seems like it's a small change to language, but again, fairly significant. The change to the Endangered Species Act will change the definition of habitat. Habitat is defined as just the immediate area around where a species has its nest or its den. And conservation groups say that this kind of ignores the reality of how an endangered species needs to live in its actual habitat, which is a lot more than just where it nests. As we heard in the intro, Bill 5 has been heavily criticized by several indigenous groups, in particular, the proposal to create these special

economic zones in the Ring of Fire, which is located on Trinine land. Alvin Fiddler, the grand chief of the Shnabe-Aske Nation, said the other day that First Nations will be, quote, idle no more if the bill passes. And if this bill, in its current form, goes through, that is where we're headed. There will be quote, Idle No More if the bill passes. And if this bill though, in its current form goes through, that is where we're heading.

There will be conflict on the ground. Anything and everything that will make this government listen to us. Can you remind our listeners, Mike, what he's referring to here? Yeah. So Idle No More was a major indigenous protest movement really across Canada.

And it was in response to the Stephen Harper government's push with legislation that actually had some similarities to Ontario's bill five that that was called the, the jobs and growth act. And at the time many first nations felt that it was kind of running rough shot over indigenous rights and environmental protections.

And what we saw were things like blockades of rail routes. The 401 actually highway in Ontario was blockaded for a while. So the mention of I don't know more by by Granchy Fiddler and a few other first nations leaders, that's evoking the prospect of there being direct action by indigenous leaders, indigenous groups against a bill five. If it, uh, if it goes through. What are indigenous groups concerned about when it, when it comes to bill five, the fact that the government hasn't really consulted with them

about it concerns that the, the, the bill would pave the way for damaging environment within their treaty areas and basically concerned that it would force development in places that they don't feel are necessarily appropriate for development. Let's be clear, First Nations do not oppose development. We understand that Ontario must remain a competitive jurisdiction to navigate global economic realignment. However, we cannot and will not support development that is done the wrong way, ignores our rights and puts the environment in our heritage at risk. There are First Nations that want some of these projects to go ahead,

but even those, they want them to go ahead in a way that ensures that the environment is cared for and that first nations are actually reaping some of the economic benefits. The Ford government seems to be responding to at least some of this criticism and it's saying it's going to make some amendments to the bill. We'll now include language about respecting

treaty rights and allow for something it's calling indigenous led economic zones. What do you make of these changes? Will it be enough to appease the critics? Yeah, you kind of have to wonder whether this language about respecting treaty rights is anything more than a gesture. First Nations are feeling that it's basically just an acknowledgement of reality. It's like kind of putting in, in your legislation that, uh, you know, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West because indigenous rights must be respected.

So to say that this bill is going to respect indigenous rights doesn't really for them feel like it actually means anything. It doesn't, does it actually change the substance of the bill or the overall direction of what the bill would do? Stephen Lecce, the energy and mines minister has said that they will not move to create a

special economic zone until they've meaningfully consulted with First Nations. Again, that is, that's table stakes. That's, that's what the government has to do before it makes any of these moves. And the feeling is, is that, you know, the government has to do before it makes any of these moves. And the feeling is, is that, you know, the government brought this in without actually having consulted with First Nations.

So, they're really feeling that they were blindsided by this and it's hard to say that that amendment is going to be enough to change things. With Bill 5, the government moves at lightning speed when it suits industry, but drags its feet to change things. With Bill 5, the government moves at lightning speed when it suits industry, but drags its feet when it comes to honoring its obligation to First Nations. This is pure colonialism.

Bill 5 doesn't protect Ontario. It protects corporate interests and short-term profits. When we talk about duty to consult from this government, they do the bare minimum. At Desjardins Insurance, we put the care in taking care of business. Your business to be exact. Our agents take the time to understand your company so you get the right coverage at the right price. Whether you rent out your building, represent a condo corporation, or own a cleaning company, we make insurance easy to understand so you can focus on the big stuff, like your small business.

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sponsored by IG private wealth management. What other groups have come out against the bill? Like how widespread is the opposition? You know, the fact that, uh, you could exempt companies from following basic employment standards law, that's got a lot of unions concerned. Um, the Canadian civil liberties association is another organization that's, that's raised concerns, uh, cause you know, what if, what if

the government says the human rights code doesn't apply? Uh, I'm also going to mention conservation groups like, uh like Ontario nature, not particularly radical. There are folks who like to see ducks and birds out in the wild. And there was an open letter from more than a hundred of these nature and conservation groups, bird watchers around Ontario that spoke out against this bill. We've seen some willingness to make amendments, small though they may be to, to the bill.

Do you think going forward, Premier Ford and his party will dig their heels in and, and commit to this, or do you see more concessions in the weeks ahead? They certainly seem to be really committed to moving ahead with the general thrust of the bill. There's no indication I'm getting that with the general thrust of the bill. There's no indication I'm getting that they're going to withdraw any significant portions of it.

And it could become law pretty quickly. Uh, the Queens park actually finishes its sitting for the, uh, the summer break next Thursday. And the, the way the bill has gone through the process, it actually has the potential to get passed into law and given royal assent right away as early as next Thursday. Do you have the sense that once the bill is

passed, that the government will move quickly to kind of use these new tools that is put at its disposal? Yeah. Um, they seem really keen on moving ahead with the, the ring of fire. And so, uh, I think what you'll see is some fairly quick moves to try to, you know, consult

with First Nations on what they want to do. But Doug Ford has said repeatedly that getting that ring of fire going is, is a top priority for him. He even said, you know, a few years ago, uh, that he'd jump on the bulldozer himself to, to get the road built. So I think that is a thing you're going to see the government move quickly on. Mike, this, this government is one that is often stumbled while

pursuing a pro development agenda. I'm thinking of the backlash back in 2019 to propose changes to the planning act, the controversy over its plans for the green belt, or even the recent questions about the Ontario place deal. And I guess what I'm wondering is to what extent is this bill really about the threat posed by Donald Trump or if this is about pursuing policy goals that Ford has had for a long time? Oh, I think it's absolutely the latter. Uh, you know, I've, I've heard some people say that, you know, Trump is really just a

pretext for, for, for Ford and his PCs to do what they've wanted to do all along. Like this is a guy who for many years said that that red tape and over regulation is holding the economy back. And they've really made it a mission. And I think Donald Trump and the tariffs like helps that narrative along.

This idea that red tape and regulation is the cause of Ontario's economic challenges. challenges. Is there evidence that it's red tape slashing agenda has delivered results? You mentioned it's their mission. Ford has talked in the past about slashing agenda has delivered results. You mentioned it, it's their mission. Ford has talked in the past about slashing red tape to build more housing. Has that worked out? Like, do we have reasonable expectations of success here? Well, I mean, if you look at the housing

question, yeah, they, uh, they put, they put this huge emphasis on speeding up the approvals for housing projects at the municipal level. Like they blame municipal councils, city councils and red tape there for slowing down housing construction. Guess what, what's happened since then? Well, housing starts have actually declined since they made those changes.

And why is that? Well, that's, that's because of the market, right? The market forces are actually a much bigger deal around getting housing built than municipal red tape. I think the same is applying in mining. That's why it takes so long to get a mine built.

But there's this theme really of bureaucracy being the thing that's slowing down economic development, you know, you're, you're seeing a bit of a consensus, almost even group think about that being a problem and maybe,, almost even group think about that being a problem and maybe, maybe it's not just that that's the problem. The, the idea of cutting red tape is something

that pretty much every conservative politician will campaign on. I guess, you know, Doug Ford has had a minister of red tape reduction for several years now, but it seems like lately, and I think you've been hinting at this, it seems like lately, many liberals are saying that they're also worried about regulations getting in the way of big economic

development projects. You know, Mark Carney himself campaigned on this promise to have one project, one review, and it was mentioned again in the throne speech earlier this week. What do you think Bill Five says about this particular moment in Canada? I think that's a really clever thought there, John. It's like there's this consensus and it's

come about largely as a response to Trump that Canada's got to build stuff faster. We are going to build. Build baby build. Even if everybody though can agree on that, there's still a question that's up for debate about how do you get stuff built faster? Because you know, what some people might see as red tape for others, that's like absolutely crucial

protection for the environment or for indigenous rights or for, you know, community rights. So I think the context is incredibly important that Canada's economic challenges that it's facing because of Donald Trump's tariffs are absolutely a justification for trying to make things happen more efficiently. But does making things happen more efficiently mean that you actually should create special economic zones where laws don't have to apply? Does it actually mean that you got endangered species legislation? I don't know. Mike Crawley, thanks so much for your reporting on this. My pleasure, John.

That's all for today. I'm Jonathan Molpincy. Thanks for listening to Frontburner. We'll talk to you tomorrow.