FULL SEND PODCAST - Sage Steele | Ep. 176

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

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Take advantage of this code if you've never tried it. If you put it in $5, you're going to get $50 for free. But guys, I'm so fired up about these new edition. the prize picks complete game changer i'm going to be firing more than i already am shout at the prize picks use code noke let's get into this video how many kids do you have three what are their ages 23 21 19 so my god what's it like having kids at that age i feel like that's when they start to get a little i almost it's getting easier oh it's getting easier at that age the 19 year old she's a sophomore at ommess sorority she's actually in the same sorority as lane kiffin's daughter okay

You know, that whole Lane Kiffin chaos at Ole Miss? He's awesome. What's going on with that? Well, not him in particular, just Ole Miss and sororities and the South and SEC. So she's having the time of her life. She's awesome. So she's, you know, she's a baby. And then my son's in the middle of these two, I always say like these two psycho girls of mine.

And he's a saint. And he goes to High Point University. And then the oldest is one that has a job in Nashville, J.O.B. She actually got a job. like real adult paying bills what's the hardest part of being a mom and your favorite part my favorite part is like probably kind of cliche but the second you have a child especially as a woman birth a child because FYI men can't do that despite what people like to say doesn't happen impossible like it's just not about you you know what I mean and you now are responsible for this human and I did it two more times

So it's just that whole thing about you never really understand love until then, like, it's legit because, like, she came from me. I know. Sorry, it would be graphic. That's what I'm starting to realize now, too, like, all the shit I did as a kid. Yeah. Like, I'm surprised my parents didn't strangle me. Yeah.

Because it's like, I fucking created you. Correct. And you're, like, talk back to me and, like, it's funny. Yeah. Like, I gave you life. Yeah. Like, literally, you came out of me, like, shut up. Like, have respect.

Yeah. So I, I, but that's the, I think the hardest part is, now because of where this world is and with this all the stuff that we're doing in social media and what they think is reality versus what is and then I'm just the old you know psycho mom in their eyes and I'm like no this is real and this is not like this is a fake life over here do you know what I mean yeah so that part's hard because you do sound like just the annoying old parent but like it's a lot scarier than when I was a kid it's a whole different world like what you guys are seeing you know How stricter you with your rules with social media and stuff like that?

Well, they're like 19 plus. Once they leave your house, like the baby's 19, you got to give up. Yeah. Like I kind of gave up. I don't want to say gave up. I had to loosen up like during COVID years because we were locked up in the Northeast. You know what I mean? They locked us up.

We were stuck in the house, no school, no sports, no nothing. So all they had was social media and was, their phone was like that's when all the TikTok, I feel like that's when all the TikTok craze really began like with the dances and the moms and dad's doing lame dances. I feel like that's when it really went crazy. But that's the only outlet they had. So I had to loosen up then. I feel like TikTok. Am I cool the cursing for you? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. You're like a sweet mom. I don't know if that's cool or not. I don't know if I'm sweet. No, you're cooler than I thought right away. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. Not as a diss. When you walked in, I was like, oh shit, she's

cool. So I feel like the TikTok whole era is fucking up the kids. bad and I just like specifically talk about one person but like I look at uh Kim Kardashian's daughter Northwest I don't know if you've seen her yep but she has like teeth done blue hair 12 years old and it just seems like this social media can really affect these kids in a negative way is she like that all the time or was that for like Halloween no that's her new look oh and she goes around flipping off cameras and stuff um okay yes social media and that's certainly the influence but who's helped create that, her mom. And how about parenting? Like, no, you don't get a grill. No, your

hair's not blue. No, you don't act like a jerk to adults, to other human beings. Like, that's called parenting. And it's hard. But she also's got Kanye's jeans, though, too. We can't blame him for everything on that one. She's the one that had babies with them. I know, but like, yeah. I mean, at some point, there's decisions along the way, right? Yeah. Yeah. But still, Kanye's not even around that much from what I've heard, right? So as a mom, and by the way, I respect the heck out of her. She's like, she's a hard worker. She's a boss.

She's earned all of it. Like, I love that and I respect that. And I'm also like, who's the parent? No. Like, you have to say no. You have to crush them at times. But my dad was a, I mean, he's still alive, but retired Army colonel, like military, West Point pushups.

Like, I grew up like that where there's no, it's very black and white. This is what you were supposed to do. you chose not to so there's consequences like it's I'm not saying it's easy all the time but it is when you look at it that was my upbringing too really yeah report card when I got home

if I got below a B punishment grounding like stuff like that accountability can't drive the Mercedes for a whole 24 hours lost the bends a couple times if I got caught I got smoking weed was got drug tested you got drug tested by your dad

yeah by Harvey Steinberg Yeah. Really? Yeah. Passed it too. And I was definitely in my system. Did you, I was going to say, what did you put in the test? You had that bottle of water on the side when you took the test. I had a friend pee from me one time. There you go. Yeah. And then I just drank a lot of water and Gatorade for like a week building up to it. Oh, because you knew it was coming. Well, that's his mistake. We can't tell you that it's coming. I bought them and gave and administered them to my kids. Yeah. Really? Is that crossing the line? Because it's like at what age were they? I was eight, that was seven. That's interesting. 15, 16.

Okay, so that maybe that makes sense. But I don't, I don't care. Like, as long as you're in my house, number one, and then number two, if you're receiving any, if you're receiving a penny from me, you're not an adult yet, sorry. And so those are my rules. And if you smoke, if you do any of it, like, no, you're out. Yeah. I mean, not out.

I'm not kicking you out, but there's consequences. Like to me, it's just, it's so simple. Did they pass or no? Yes. A few failures sometimes? No. failures. I think she knew. I didn't tell her, but I think she knew it was coming. Um, but again, there were, she was grounded a lot. And you know what she said literally last week. She goes,

mom, you're a hard ass and I'm definitely harder than their dad. Um, and she goes, you were hard. And I thought you were awful at the time. She's like, but you needed to do more. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like it was a struggle because I was always the mean parent. But for her to now at 23, be like, oh, I'm going to be harder than you. That means we're doing the right thing. I don't find you very intimidating. I couldn't see me. I am very intimidating. I don't know why. You're sitting far away, though. Yeah, but I'd have to piss you off or say something crazy. No, Sage could be a hard ass too. Yeah. You don't want to underestimate her kindness for like weakness. I can just tell, bro. What, there's like a dark side? Not dark, but stern. Why are you being

racist? Oh, here we go. Wow. Here we go. Why is it? Why? Here we go. And I was going to, I was going to bring up Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark. I can't wait. You said strong side, but you said dark side. Just like the evil side. Oh, evil, too. Black people are evil. It's cool. That's so crazy. You can just get away with that.

It's good. I'm glad we got this out of the way at the beginning. You just get away with that. And now I'm supposed to say I have all my friends are black. Oh, no, I have black neighbors. Exactly. What was the question? Now we've got to change up.

No, oh, am I? Do I have a dark side? Yeah, here's, it takes a lot. It takes a lot to get me really mad. But when I do, I mentioned it the other day, I felt something happened the other day. And I felt this like, like, like fire. coming out of my chest. And then I have to, I do have to watch my language, like what my, especially on my mom. I try to be respectful. My parents are my best friends besides my husband.

And they're 7-9 and 76 and they're awesome. And, you know, they're super cool. But there's like a respect thing too. I feel like around parents where I don't need to say the F word. And then I have, I have like Christian guilt, Catholic guilt, black guilt, half black guilt, because I'm not black enough guilt and white guilt and all the guilt and I have the sign in my office that says I love Jesus but I cuss a little and I'm like I think that's kind of perfect because I do but then I've got a potty mouth so how do I how do I balance that so that's what happens when I get mad is then my my mouth goes south what was a moment you're like specific moment where you're like ESPN I'm done with it big ace like was there a specific moment where you're like I'm just that's it

I'm done with ESPN yeah I mean it built up to it but the term The warning point was, I got suspended and was actually like, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, because I never wanted to upset anybody. I got suspended for talking about being forced to take the vaccine, which I thought was wrong. Online or offline? On a podcast. On an off day on a podcast, it was Jay Cutler's podcast. He had just started his new show. I think it was like his third guest, and he asked me, because I had literally just come from getting shot.

and shot. And I was livid. Like I was pissed. Did you not anticipate repercussions from saying that on the color podcast? It was like honestly so organic. It was a conversation and I didn't think about it because I complied with the rules. I took your shot. I took your fake shot. Like I did it. But no, if you look back at the video on the actual podcast with color, there was some hesitation because I knew like this is a touchy subject. But I did it. I complied. So I, I can still have an opinion that I think it's wrong to do it, but I comply. The turning point after that was, okay, for saying that, they suspended me, took me off the air for almost two weeks, made me publicly apologize, I guess you a whole statement, took

assignments away for a long time, like I hosted the Rose Parade out in Pasadena and the New York City Marathon, like all these things that were important to me, took them away. And I was like, okay, fine, back to work. You know, I was scared and embarrassed and like, oh, my God. And then the problem was that they kept allowing my peers to go on ESPN airwaves and talk about things that had nothing to do with sports like abortion on an NBA show. Sorry, that's one of the problems with ESPN. Through the years, they've allowed, you know, crossover where people come to ESPN and any sports network to do what, to watch sports and talk sports. We don't really care about your politics on ESPN.

Viewers usually don't. Or an NFL show to talk about the don't say gay bill in Florida. allegedly. Never said those words in the bill if he took a second to read it. So when I saw that hypocrisy of allowing all those people to do it on ESPN, nothing to do with sports, but then I'm on a side podcast talking about a shot that I actually complied with. It's just the hypocrisy of it. So that's when I was like, hell no, you can't, I mean, you can, but now I'm going to push back because I was a model employee for 16, 17 years. And that hypocrisy was like too far. That's actually something I noticed.

I don't really want to call him out, but that's why I don't really agree with SVP is because he's there talking, he does after the games, does a sports show, and then he'll start talking about politics. And it's in my mind, you're using ESPN's platform. It's not your platform, it's ESPNs, and you're talking about something, and you have a lot of power, and you're very opinionated, and it's not about sports. And I'll sit there and be like, how is he allowed to use this platform and talk about this stuff and kind of give

listeners his opinion and try and persuade them a certain type of way about something that has nothing to do with sports. That's the problem. That was my point. I stopped watching ESPN after that. And unfortunately, millions of people have, but that's the problem. What is the rule? Are we allowed to or not? And if we are, fine, but you can't pick

and choose. It can't be just the liberal woke agenda that Disney is all about. And I did mine away from EASPN on purpose. Again, it wasn't intentional. It was a reaction. I had just come from getting the shot like 20 minutes before, so I was a little hot. But I still would never have said that on TV. I would never have said I think it's wrong on ESPN because that's not why you're watching me. Do you know what I mean? I had respect for

the network and the profession in that way. So when they did that repeatedly, repeatedly, and all I did was ask for consistency and then an apology for punishing me publicly. And they said no, so I filed a lawsuit against Disney. Once you file a lawsuit against your employer that you're still working for and I'm still on their TV screens every day while I'm suing them. I knew that would obviously that's the end of my time there. It took 22 months, like from suspension to the lawsuit settling with Disney. It was almost two full years. So I was still going on TV every day while I'm suing them. It was crazy. Are you allowed to say what the settlement ended us? A settlement. Disney, that's got to be pretty decent. Well, it's more about like, I'll just say this. The fact that I'm

allowed to talk about my whole experience there and the fact that I sued them and why I sued them and all that came with it, the behind the scenes leading up to the lawsuit. Most people aren't able to... At Capital One, we're more than just a credit card company. We're people just like you who believe in the power of yes. Yes to new opportunities. Yes to second chances. Yes to a fresh start. That's why we've helped over four million Canadians get access to a credit card because at capital one we say yes so you don't have to hear another no what will you do with your yes get the yes you've been waiting for at capital one dot ca slash yes terms and conditions apply speak after they settle and so you had some leverage i'm really happy with the settlement because

most importantly like think about the hypocrisy of i sue them for kind of silencing me so freedom of in many ways, even though it's not under the Constitution. It's under there is a statute in the state of Connecticut, where ESPN is, where you are actually allowed to be critical of your employer if you're complying with their rules. And I was, again, I didn't know that going in, but when we did some research afterwards, yeah. But for me to, like if I had, so I sued them under that overall, again, this First Amendment state of Connecticut employment law, not constitution, and over silencing me, but then I settle a lawsuit and stay silent.

Like, there's, there's hypocrisy in that, right? So super important for me to be able to speak. And not for me, because my time there is over, right? But other people at ESPN who feel silenced, how about other people at companies around this country who feel silenced and afraid and fearful, that they can only say one thing. If they believe this, it's fine.

If you believe this, you're out. So my goal was to talk. about it. So other employers, maybe, maybe, just be fair and equal. Don't pick and choose who you allow to speak. That's all I ever wanted. So that's why it's important. That's why it was important for me to stand up, even though it was really scary. And I didn't ever want to blow up my career. Like, I loved that job. But sometimes principle matters. What's your thought on the NBA gambling situation right now with Billups and Rozier? You think like the FBI is going to crack down on more players like gambling in games and I hope so if that's happening it's ruining the integrity of

the game you know it sucks because I didn't know Terry but I knew Chauncey I worked with Chauncey a lot I don't know if people remember he worked at ESPN after his career before he took that Portland job which was like his first coaching job you know I mean I would sit on set with him or in the break room and we you know go over his segments and um as far as an analyst like how do how are you how are you better because he was just coming into TV people don't understand by the way like It's one thing to be a great player. It's another thing to be able to actually talk about it and break down plays on TV. These are two very different things.

And so he was, you know, wanting to learn. And we were friends who were on the road for years for the finals and stuff. So it sucks for me to see it. Yes, I think they're going to continue to crack down. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. When you have Hall of Famer, like John C. Billups, right? When you have NBA players, active NBA players and coaches tied in with the mafia? That's insane.

Like, when I heard that, it gave me chills. Like, that's a whole other level. What, it was it, 10, 12 years ago, maybe longer with Tim Donegay, the NBA referee that was involved in it. That was a major scandal. I don't know if you remember, because how old were you then? Do I even want to know? You were like four.

Oh, yeah, probably four or five. And diapers. He wasn't fixing games, right? He was just giving tips of who was maybe playing and who wasn't. I don't even remember all the details. It was, it was deeper than that. Has there been discovery about, like, why he did it or was he, like, was he forced to or Was he not?

Who? Phillips. Oh, that hasn't come out yet. That's not, I can't wait to learn all about it. But literally, it comes down to what, always, the almighty dollar. And at the end of the day, for Cash Patel, for them to have a press conference way that they did, I mean, this has been a years long investigation. This has been going on for so long. How about the glasses that they were wearing?

I mean, this is really super deep. So this is just the tip of the iceberg. But they had to do it this way to send a message, right, by using an active head-coct. coach and an active player. But with the mafia, like four of the five biggest mafia families involved in this, there's going to be so many heads rolling, I hope not literally, but like this is massive. And it sucks because the NBA, you know, except for like the playoffs and the finals, overall during the regular season, those numbers haven't been great over the last five to ten years. And I don't think it's a coincidence that it, timing wise, with all the

wokeness and the chaos. I mean, look at what's on the courts and Black Lives Matter and all the political statements, even on the back of jerseys for a long time, everybody kneeling. And then if you didn't kneel, then you're a racist in a sellout. Like, I feel like they've overplayed their hand there, and it's really unfortunate. So the fact that it happened at the beginning of the season, there's going to be more to come. Do you think there was any meaning of Billups wearing the clutch sports hoodie walking out to the, walking out of the, the, where was the conspiracy?

I don't know. I'm going to be honest. That's kind of like, I don't know if you could say anything about that, but I don't know. That had a little bit of meaning, I felt like. I don't know. What I do know is that everything these guys put on is intentional. They're too smart. Like when you are sitting down for an interview, when you know there's cameras everywhere,

you are intentional about what you're wearing. That hat is not a coincidence that you're wearing a happy down hat. If FBI shows up at your house. And they'd tell you you're getting arrested. You probably just throw something on and walk out. Maybe. Like, remember Aaron Hernandez, just throwing a white teeth? True.

Oh, my God. Aaron Hernandez. I remember being at ESPN during the whole time. Yeah. True. But, and I haven't gone that deep about it with Clutch. I actually haven't. But I do think.

I just found it interesting. You just wore it and was walking out with it. I don't know. I just think no matter. Well, and it's probably a good point because no matter what, so many people knew about this. So many people had. to for all these years. So it makes me sad because actually when I started to cover NBA,

just NBA from like 2013, 13, yeah, 2013 through 2019, sorry, 13 through 17, I was just NBA. And so I was on the road, I mean, hosted NBA countdown. So on the road for all the conference finals, finals, games, like all of it. I fell in love with it because I feel like it's one of the few sports where you can actually feel it. You can be a closer and they don't wear a mask. Right? A helmet. Anything. I say mask like it's COVID time. A helmet. Anything covering their face. So you can see everything. You can see their emotions. You can see when they're mad or, you know, hurting and pain, whatever it is. And so with basketball, like, you're right there. You can see it and feel it all. So I felt in love with it because of that ability and because it's smaller than football. So you can get to know people. You can get to know, you know, like stories and behind the scene stuff. So I loved it. But I feel like they're they're literally killing themselves with this stuff. What was your favorite NBA finals you've covered? Or a sporting event, honestly. You covered Jordan a lot, right?

You're totally aging me, but yes. That's pretty cool. I know. So that's why, to me, when people bring up the LeBron Jordan debate, even my son, I'm like, go away. Yeah, I hate that conversation. Go away. You guys didn't. No one's going to change their minds in the act.

Yeah, it's fine. So we did a whole podcast about that. The whole generation versus new generation. It's like, same thing. It is. But here's the thing. Like everyone now who says LeBron, most of them weren't alive or old enough to watch Jordan and to appreciate it and to feel and see the difference. And to appreciate how different the league was then.

I mean, defensively, it was so much tougher. The rules were different. I just like, because people always make that argument and Stephen A made that argument, but the talent today is far superior than it was back then. And I think we can agree on that. We're about to get into it now. I don't think a lot of those guys are getting time in today's NBA for being real. I don't know. I think, again, just like you said, that the argument is ridiculous to have LeBron and Jordan.

Maybe this is the same thing because we'll never know. So we can sit here and debate it, but I would love to see Jordan in this league today. I think here's the other thing, the intangible that LeBron does not have. First of all, how many teams did Michael Jordan play for? Two. Do you count the Wizards, really? No, but I mean, if you're asking, he played for two teams. Okay.

Who did he play for? Bulls, the Bulls. Jordan. Plank, the Bulls. So how many teams? has have these other super how about Kevin Durant right now like he is beyond a generational talent yeah and look every time it isn't going well you leave you run away so I think that there's some intangibles with that other generation the prior generation led by Michael Jordan where it's like hell no we're

going to win and we're going to lose together and we're going to fight we're going to claw and I'm going to uplift you did did you watch the last dance I'm sure you did I mean incredible like I got emotional watching some of it because I got to see some of it in person and because no one will ever understand, and I can't either, because I wasn't in those locker rooms with him, but there's no one in the league right now that's really doing that. I do think Stefan Curry is able to do that in very different ways than Michael Jordan. He is glue. He's that guy. He just does it quietly. But look at the hatred that came Michael's way, and I don't blame them. I mean, it's almost like having a really annoying, heavy-handed, strict parent. That's what Michael was,

because he's like, I am not wasting my time if you all are not in this with me. And if you're not get the hell out. So who does that these days? Give me an athlete in the NBA that really does that in the NFL. Tom Brady did that. Peyton Manning did that in terms of being loyal to their team. Well, loyalty for sure. And I know it's a different league, right? So again, can you even compare because look at free agency and look at the money? But I love that that those guys, the bad boy Detroit Pistons hated the Bulls. I love that like it wasn't just on the court and then they're going to go hang out on a banana boat with Dwayne Wade afterwards and hang out and vacation together. No, there's like real hatred.

And I love that. So those playoff series, I mean, I witnessed Nick's Pacers, Eastern Conference Finals in what year was that? 95, 96, whatever year it was, when Reggie. Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, in eight seconds. Like, I was in Indianapolis at that time, like witnessing that whole thing. And the hatred in Spike Lee, like, I would do anything to go back to those times.

And I mean, I know I sound like that old man get off my lawn, 100%. But, like, it just, it's just different. Is there more egos now, you think? Well, the fact that everybody's like this with their phones and everything is... Maybe social media, like, created a lot more egos with, like, players and stuff, right? 100%. It did. I mean, not that there weren't massive egos then, but it just wasn't on display for the whole world to see.

And all that matter was basketball. Now, were there other things going on behind the scenes? Yeah, but we didn't know about it. And then they weren't able to make money based on this. post or that post and, you know, marketing. Everything was different. It's no one's fault. Like, we can't fault today's players for it because it is a different generation, just like our kids who have the phones. It's a different generation. But at the end of the day, that's why I think it's so hard to compare. And because I saw it, I would 100 times out of 100 want to be watching

that basketball, want to be on those teams, want to be broadcasting about those teams. Not these guys where the next time something goes wrong or you don't like your coach, then you bitch about it and you get him fired or you ask for a trade. Like, it's, it's so annoying. How many teams have Kevin, has Kevin Durant been on now? Okay. Seattle, Oklahoma City. I know. Gold State.

I love the fine boy. Katie's the man. Houston. And by the way. Phoenix, too. Hi. Hi. Where is he now?

Houston. Houston. Houston. But guess what? This is why it's a problem because he's, how old is he, 37, 38? Yeah. And he's making 40 million a year. Exactly.

That's why I'm saying, that part's not their fault. But what's here does matter. You don't think Stefan Curry could have gone somewhere else and gotten more and gotten more marketing, a slightly bigger market. Are you kidding me? Absolutely. There's something that you can't teach that some of those players have. Very few have it today.

And I don't think it's necessarily their fault. But back then it was different. It was different. And I hate when they run away, when they run away like a little, you know what? I know my mom will watch this. When they run away like a little bitch, I have nothing for them. I want to say that about KD. Stony. But that's your boy.

But I also, I get it. The money part. What I don't get is the loyalty. Here's one thing, and then I'll shut up. But isn't it always up to the player? Like, isn't there, couldn't it be like some part of the team that tries to kick them out or like start streaming them like shit where they're like... Players run the teams. Players told to run the teams.

I think we all know that. Also, what people don't talk about is in Golden State when he wanted to leave Oklahoma City. He and Russell Westbrook weren't getting along, right? So, and they lost to the Warriors and the playoffs. Remember all the crap he got for then, yeah, they were up through it. For then, wasn't that the kicking games and all that? But yeah.

And then to go to the team that just beat you, remember he got a bunch of crap for that. In order to go there, what had to happen? You had Draymond Green, Stefan Curry, Clay Thompson. They were already a big three. They had already won a title. They were great, but they knew they needed a little bit more. So what did those three massive global superstars do? They step back.

They got on a plane. They went to the Hamptons. They met with KD. And they took a step back themselves to allow this guy, because he's a generational talent, one of the all-time greats, obviously, to feel welcome to come in. They step back, their egos. And they went and got him and they brought him in. And what did they do?

They won. And KD was a massive difference maker. And then I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but all of a sudden, and he wants out. Like, you talk about a dynasty that could easily have rivaled anyone in history. If KD stays,

and he left, and the way he handled it was crappy. I think two things is that KD also played a big role by, he kind of put his ego aside because he knew that was Stefan Curry's team. He knew he needed a ring. Yeah. And that's how he was going to get, when it was to go to the team that beat him. He had all the the fans, everyone literally coming at

him for years to the point where he was like, wow, maybe I got to go out there and prove I can win a championship without these guys. He did not have fans coming after him until he left Oklahoma City to join the team that just beat him. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but I think him and Westbrook have personal beef though. They weren't meshing on the court. Yeah, I mean, they were making it to the Western Conference finals

and, you know, they were making it deep, but they weren't tough. Russell was tough. Russell's tough teammate. Yeah, and I mean, I don't think what Katie did wasn't like, I don't think it was that bad. I get it in the moment. It was crazy, but two-time final. an MVP, you know, I mean, he's won two NBA champions. I didn't mind that he did it. I think what was sad was that he took it so personally when the fans came after him. So that's another

reason why I love him. Like I can criticize somebody but still really love and respect them and that's how I feel about him. Because I think he's actually like super sensitive. And his relationship with his mother, like he's a good guy and he's sensitive. And when these fans across the whole sport came after him, that hurt him. And then he got mad. So he went to Golden State hurt and mad. And it worked out because he was KD and he did it and he led the way and he got hurt too. So I try to understand the human element of this, not just the critical, okay, what did you do and you're soft? No, there's definitely more to it.

But that is what comes when you're making $40 million a year. And then when you jump around. Do you think athletes today are too sensitive with the media? I think a lot of them are, but I also think the media sucks. You know, I mean, half the time they don't even ask good questions. You know, I think it's just a, it's a, again, it's all changed. And again, I'm going to sound like an old person, but like it's just different when you can ask a tough, honest, genuine questions. And as the media, you shouldn't be trying to just get clicks. It shouldn't be a gotcha

question, you know, like let's ask really, I wasn't in that huddle. Were you? No, we weren't. So as the media, like, I want to know, what was the conversation in that huddle? What was the plan coming in because you said you're going to, you know, give so and so the ball, you know, a minimum of 20 to 25 times. That's what a good running back is going to get to get need to get going. And then you give it to him 12 times, you know, what changed during the game? Like, ask educated questions and then you'll get more respect from the athletes and the coaches. So I think it's, yes, the athletes are super sensitive now, which goes along with how the whole world is about things more important than sports, for goodness sake. But as the media, sports media, I

And look at news. Like, no one watches, you know, those main networks on, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS, and more because they've lost all credibility. That is part of it as well. When you don't do your homework and don't come in with good questions on any level, as an athlete, as a politician, as an artist, I wouldn't respect the media either. Everything now is just about, like, shorter and clips, too. Like, people just want, like, the drama.

And, like, I'll be honest, I struggled with that. Like, starting my show, I struggled because, like, I get it. I know it's clips and clicks and all. all that. But I feel like conversations don't happen. And that's why, like, my show is super long form and probably too long at times. I don't know. You guys can give me advice because I'm still newer to this space. Like, I'm really learning. But I'm convinced that when you have a conversation with somebody, like, you'll understand more about their reasoning why. I would love to have a real deep sit down with, with Kevin Durant about this stuff. Because that's what I'm saying is like,

Katie on the pod. He just did Bobby. That needs to happen. That needs to happen. Yeah. It would be amazing. But also, a lot of guys are probably afraid to go really deep because then what will happen if they open up, then they'll get crushed over here. Or if someone sits down with me because I'm considered a sell out right-wing nut job, then, well, he might want to sit with me, but wouldn't because then what would his boys say? Like, it's just so sad what it's done. Yeah.

Yeah. Because at the end of the day, the reason why we're in this place in this country, sports, politics, whatever, is because of a lack of deep conversation. I'll tell you what I've got there's a show on Netflix I don't know what it's called starting five maybe but it's on KD Hardin I don't know if you've seen it but they're in like a more comfortable like atmosphere players doing it themselves well they're getting interviewed there's the interviewers not on camera they talk about like why the nets didn't work out Katie says Hardin didn't want to be there like they actually dive into stuff that you could I love yeah exactly because it's different and you're not they're not like getting pressed it's more like in a comfortable environment it's really good I love love that. So, and that's why they started to create, wasn't, what was the initial website? Like, Derek Jeter was involved in it and it was the players. I'm not sure. Tribune maybe. And the players were coming out and writing those pieces. So then they had control of what was coming out versus media, which I thought was brilliant because there's a lack of trust and I've always. And that's what I took so much pride in back in the day when I was able to be in locker rooms and talking to

those guys because they would see me in person and see that I was consistent. I wouldn't say something, then not show up in the locker room, which a lot of reporters would do. Like, you can do this, but then you don't show up. Then, again, you lose respect. But, like, that personal side of it is super important to me to build the trust. And then when something bad happens, like, we'll have a conversation about it, but I have to do my job, but I will do it fairly. You know what I mean?

I think once these guys start to come out of the league, they're going to be way more open and storytelling. Like, have you seen Jeff Teague? Oh, yeah. Like, he literally tells you everything. that you would never expect to hear. Love that. Says, hey, anytime, just so you guys know,

anytime I say anything bad about LeBron, I get a call from someone from his team saying, hey, ease up on that. Don't talk about him. And he openly says that. Well, and think about that. So that's another reason why media members and journalists don't always do their job.

And networks, let's start there. Because they know that if they take off the wrong person, then they're going to get a call from LeBron's agent. Or whoever, by the way, let's not pick up. on LeBron. It goes into any sport where the agent will call and not only criticize you, but you're probably not going to get access to that athlete again. And then he's going to tell his boy and his boy's going to tell his boy and before you know it, you are out. So that's why

people don't do their jobs because of the fear of being cut out, which means what? The viewers who don't have access like we do, the viewers don't get the real story. They don't get the good interviews because everybody's living in fear yeah how much do you cover the wmba well i don't i mean at espn when i was there it was part it was a contract with them so they covered it i i remember pushing 10 years ago pushing to do it more because i knew these women were working their butts off and one of my best friends in the world is becky hammond the head coach of the las vegas aces one she's the head coach becky hammond of the aces where have you been oh my god i thought she was still at the spurs with pop oh my god they've won i didn't even

know that three of the last four championships yeah she's she's great i just remember her with pop it's been like four years okay i didn't know and she's winning all these championships is this the biggest the wmba's been in like a long time like the last year or two i don't know i don't know because back at the beginning with like lisa leslie some of those greats it was it was big um yeah it's huge now and i'm biased because of her but i also um you know there's a lot of back and forth and they hate the commissioner now and they're trying to kick the commissioner out um so who knows like I was at game two of the, of the finals, Aces and the Mercury. And it was great.

The atmosphere, by the way, if you're in Vegas for those Aces games, go. It's awesome. And Aja Wilson, one of the, I mean, all-time great players, the NBA guys show up and watch her play. Watch a lot of these ladies play, you know? But I will say, like, for as much as it's grown, and it's been 25 years of the WMBA, believe it or not, sometimes they hold themselves back and making some of the political statements again that that's just not necessary

when we're trying to build the league, build the brand, continue to push women, women in sports. And then these are the same group of women who won't stand up and say, yeah, men don't belong in our sport. Obviously, it's not an issue as much in the WNBA,

but like we have a thing in soccer right now where someone's getting crushed for trying to keep it women. obviously all the other sports and Raleigh Gaines, who I just had in my show, who's the strongest young woman I know for speaking common sense, guys, you know. So I think sometimes these women's leagues don't help themselves by not saying the obvious. Even overall, like, opinion on the whole Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, just how it's back and forth. Angel Reese is portrayed as a villain. Like, people like to bring race into it.

People always bring race into everything now. It's, I'm so tired. Like, it's exhausting. Yeah. It's exhausting. No, I mean, I think. it has done exactly what a lot of people hoped it would do, which is boost ratings.

The WM would be way bigger than it would ever be. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right. I guess with the addition of Caitlin, who I love. I don't care. I wouldn't care if she's green. Like, she's a great player.

She's a great ball handler. She's a great everything. When people complain about the attention that she's getting, you're all winning financially and attention-wise because of it. So why is this a bad thing? When she was in college, there were people mad that they set, you know, television ratings records because of her. Like, why is this a bad thing? If it were, if it were Angel Reese, if it were a black player, would that be better?

Like, at the end of the day, it's a win, win, win, I would think. Remember, there's also people who talk about the race aspect of it with her and also the fact that she's not gay that annoys people because it, brings them back to this all-American girl that they think, you know, the white privilege, et cetera. At the end of the day, the league is so much better off for it. I hate that she wasn't able to play at the end of the playoffs. The Aces played Indiana, the fever to get to the finals and it, you know, took in the entire series to get through them.

And it sucks that Caitlin wasn't there. But you know what? She's so tough. Yeah, she is. She can handle an absolute shooter. But, I mean, mentally, she can handle all of this. She can. She's got a great family. She's got a great support system. And she's like, you know what? You want to hate on me fine. And also, counting her money and all the other ways. Like, get it. I love her and what she's done for the sport. Do you think WMBA players are underpaid? I think it's market value. And at the end of the day, if the NBA is still needing to help and subsidize the WNBA, so be it. fortunately there are other ways that for them to make money and a lot of them are like it sucks

it may be in some ways it sucks to them that they have to go overseas and i know becky hammond played in russia you know what i mean these women are going across the world the season short it's a really short season so you can go do those other things um there's a million other ways they're making a ton social media marketing um would i love for it to be more for them absolutely but guess what market value and ratings equal dollars so we'll see because they're trying to get rid of the commissioner and if there's a new CBA absolutely but um you know you have to relate it to the money that you're bringing in period if ESPN for all those years had not been making any money I would never have gotten my contract Stephen A would not have gotten his 100 million dollar contract if the

network wasn't making money if he wasn't help bring in that helping bring in that money like I I do think we have to pay attention to market value, not our feelings, but what dollar amount is coming in? And that's how those salaries are based. Was your reaction to like dildos being thrown on the WMBA coil? That's a pretty crazy moment. I tried not to pay attention to the green dildos being thrown on the floor. Were you part of that?

Why didn't they do that? Did you start that? Salim, you threw the first green one. I just thought it was a crazy moment. It was like the last thing I've seen. Yeah, not sure I would have done that. Tiny got a little zesty when he saw that up for sure. No, I didn't.

No, I stayed way away from that. I did. I didn't see it. Did you give your season? You gave your season tickets away, didn't you? I just seen a clip of Dildo's being thrown in just a bunch of shit. No, it happened a lot. And then people were getting thrown out for it.

That probably just got, went viral. It happened. You ran on the corner and picked it up, I thought. No? He has a collection at home. Who were the top, like, three commissioners in sports? besides our good friend Joe Rogan president of the UFC

okay yeah number one and the fact that you just said that means I'm gonna like end the interview that was a hilarious wow that was that was clever you just like slid that in just thought of it honestly

no that was so funny that was a setup no I just thought of it right now oh okay yeah well we were talking about commissioners so I was like I guess yeah I didn't even I didn't even view Dana White

as a commissioner but you're right he heads up the league he's the boss Dana's the goadest, best commissioner, I think, in sports. Again, I didn't think of him as commissioner, because that's not his title, but he is. Yeah. CEO, boss. That's a great point.

And here's why I would agree with you. Dana does what is right for his sport, period. He does not care about politics. He does not care what you think. Think about what he did during COVID. Yeah. What did he do with what you would call the island? Yeah.

Fight Island, right? That's when we first met him. We went to Fight Island. Yeah, I'm so jealous. It was insane. He did what was right for his sport, and it continued. And during that time, for the people who were back at the headquarters, he kept paying them. They all got their salaries.

Nothing ever stopped, despite the rest of the world stopping. Like, he cares not just about his sport, but about his people. He also lets, you know, the Sean Strickland's of the world say, whatever the heck, they want to say, no matter who it offends. that is their right. Like I, we have, obviously, I was friends with him long before the podcast and long before making the mistake, the brain fart moment. And that's what I love about him is his, like, I don't give a crap what you think. This is what I'm doing.

And this is why I think it's right. Even a couple, you know, sometime earlier this year, or maybe it was in 2024, after all the bud light chaos. And then he thought about it and he's like, wait a minute. people can make mistakes. Companies can make mistakes. They got rid of the idiot girl who made the decision to bring in the trans, whatever, to promote Bud Light. That's just, again, another brain part, probably not marketing to your core group of Bud Light drinkers by doing that. It's fine. But he was like, okay, fine. They got punished. They're still paying for it. But it's an all-American

company that he'd done a lot of business with. And overall, has a pretty good track record. So I'm going to give you a second chance and bring you on. It's a sponsor again. Like, who does that? Most people go, yeah, sorry, guys. I know we've been friends for 20 years. He's done a lot of great work, but I'll get crushed if I do that. So sorry.

No, he is like, I'm going to do it. So I have so much respect for people like that because, actually, I don't know another commissioner or head of any sport that would do that. Dana does it. So, and I just love how he runs things. He knows how to run a business. And he's fearless. Now, is it easy to be fearless when you're that successful and making that much money?

Yeah, but um. Kind of, but kind of not too, because I'm sure even during COVID, it's not like, I'm sure he was getting pressure from advertisers too. Oh, for sure. People saying like, yo, you can't do this. For sure. But I think he just has the balls where he's like, yo, fuck you. If like, if you don't want to be a part of this, then you're out.

I'm doing what's, and look how well it worked out. Like, the UFC blew up. Totally blowing up. And then he creates power slap. Like, the amount of things that he does. And he's like, I'm just going to go. I'm just going to go try it. And if it doesn't work, fine.

That's business. And when you do your homework on who he is and where he came from and being a bell man at a hotel in Boston, like, he did this himself. That's what I love about. Like, that's America, isn't it? When you're just some kid from nothing in any major city or small podunk town and you have this dream and you go for it and you get told no 100,000 times. And then along the way people say yes to you. Donald Trump, you know, he was there for Donald. Donald's been there for him.

So that loyalty, that friendship is real because they've been there throughout for each other. So he gets criticized. Remember for the, for the RNC when it was, when was that? So it was, I guess, fall. Summer. Yeah. It was like August, whenever that was of 2024, leading up to the election. And he was on vacation with his family in Italy.

You flew in on a helicopter, yeah. Remember? Actually, that was super smart. social media wise right yeah so he had all the drones and the cameras when the helicopter landed on his yacht in the middle of whatever say that is in italy yeah yeah malthy and then he gets on the chopper flies away brings him to land private jet to Wisconsin to Milwaukee Wisconsin to give a speech get right back on the jet across the world goes back to Italy goes back to his family vacation it was like 24 hours in and out I mean that to me was such a badass moment

it. But besides the fact that he's able to do it financially, who cares? That's about loyalty. And that's about when your friend, who happens to be running for president, calls and says, I need you. You're the only person I would want to introduce me. How cool is that? But that's because of loyalty, even in tough times when everybody else calls you Dana White, a racist for supporting Donald Trump. Like, I love people who say, no, no, no, you can't bully me. You can't intimidate me. And it's going to cost. It is in some ways. And he does it anyway. That's the kind of person I want to work for and I want to be associated with. How about besides him, who do you think is another strong commissioner or who needs some work? I mean, I always wanted to like Roger Goodell. I've always wanted to like him.

And at the end of the day, I don't understand enough to be able to say bad good because there's so much more that goes into these than just the decisions that we see. What I do see is how well that league is doing. NFL's on fire, right? It always is. Every year you think, gets like peaked and it gets bigger even if your stars even if you have the chiefs who are what five and four like they're not the chiefs of you know past years but it doesn't matter like everybody's winning when you've got these guys i love seeing aiden hutchinson get a huge contract recently you know what i mean but when you see these guys getting i mean mohams when i was still in sports center he got a half a billion dollar deal so you can say what you want about roger godal but everybody's

winning. I feel like every sport right now has like the biggest talents you've ever seen with Otani, Wembe's insane. Yep. The NFL just has too many of them, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes. Like, it's just getting to a point where we've never seen it. Like, Wembe's one of a generation and so is O'Tonnie. He's supposed to be a really good kid too. That makes me excited. I was still at ESPN when they were, when they drafted him. And that's the best organization I go to, you know. I mean, pop obviously isn't pop anymore. He's not their health issues. Like, we should really keep him in our prayers. But the way the organization's been run, that's a great place to go smaller market. You know, it's not New York City. And I love that he's there and he's, I mean,

you cannot create that physically. It's freakish. It's insane. Watching him play. It's crazy. It's insane. I think he's probably going to be the best player ever. Or he's a chance to be. I mean, my fear is his health, obviously. And when you're that big, I mean, that's not normal. I can pull up from like almost half court and hit a three is just not normal. Ridiculous. You handle the ball. Yeah. It's crazy. But by the way, if that's my kid and he's 18 getting drafted, like, you're living with

mom, I'm coming to live with you. I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to do your meals. I'm going to make sure no girls come in here. Like, I would be so protective of that kid. And by the way, living in South Florida, right? I mean, hi, Florida Panthers. Sorry, Canadian hockey teams.

Like, tell me how South Florida and Stanley Cup the Panthers last year. There's no pressure here, too. Like, I don't think people care as much about hockey, right? Well, it's funny then. all of a sudden they do, right? You have your diehards. Or, like, media people. Yeah, I know.

Like, I'm from Toronto, like, they can't talk about shit. They can't say shit, because it's such a big market. Yeah. I don't think there's much, like, media here for Florida Panthers, right? Well, in general, NHL. Like, they're ripping golf carts to the game with, like, flip-flops, and, like, they're going to the ball. Like, they're doing... I know.

Does that hurt you? No, I mean, I like the Panthers. They're a fun team. I go to Panthers game sometimes, too, like the Tichuk. Tochuk, he's nasty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

My first team that I ever covered NHL was the Tampa Bay Lightning. They were on fire, right? When they drafted vanilla cavier. So, like, this is like late 90s. And I'd never covered hockey. I was super intimidated just because I'd never done it. And so I went in there and introduced myself to the coach, Jacques DeMere, and the goalie was Darren Pupa.

And, like, Kevin Weeks ended up coming in. And it was such a big thing of a black player in the NHL, like in the year 2000. It was crazy. And it's funny. feel like you'd appreciate this. I went in there and instead of like, I was studying up. I was reading as much as I could, but like, unless you really follow hockey for a long time, you can't appreciate it. So I just went in and I was like, I've never done this, but I really want to learn can you guys, and those guys took me under their wing, the coaches, they loved that I was honest

about it and then was trying and to learn their sport. Hockey players are by far the best athletes to work with from a media perspective the best super humble just chill um and you know people like well the money in the NFL yeah those guys are making a ton of dough and in the NHL as well they're just quieter about it they're not as flashy and ever since then and like 1998 with the lightning i've been in love with that sport in that league because of how they are as people so nothing's worth in a than a NHL locker room though like Like, you can't breathe because the stink that gets in the pads, like, you want to vomit when you walk in NHL locker rooms. You get used to, you kind of like the smell, though.

Was that? I kind of, like, missed that smell, like, growing up playing hockey, honestly. Like, you kind of like, I don't know it's weird, but you were. No, I get it. You were really one of the sweaty ones, were you? I mean. I was a house league. You don't even need to shower after the game.

I was a house league beauty, but, yeah. I love those guys. I covered the NHL All-Star game, I guess, in 98 or 99. And, like, Tame O'Slani and, like, those guys were, so I, um, um, I got to, I got to say hi to Wayne Gretzky once, and, you know, I'm like professional, trying to be all professional, but I was like, totally freaked out. What's been your favorite story you've ever covered or just scandal? I mean, there were so many scandals, I guess, but more, it was more like before ESPN, to be honest with you. Yeah.

When I was a beat reporter for the Baltimore Ravens. Yeah. So, right after their Super Bowl, in 01, I was covering that team. So that was like Shannon Sharp, Tony Saragusa. He has member, Goose. He died a couple years ago. He was the best. Ray Lewis was obviously there.

Rod Woodson's a Hall of Famer, like defensive back. Ed Reed came in like 0, 2, 03. But like to be able to be on the road with those guys, training camp all the way through. Because I was on the plane as well, just because I did a magazine show. So, like, being ingrained in one team and be able to put all your energy and efforts into one team was really cool because it's not just the highlights on Sunday. Like, there's so much more to it. And then they were there historically probably, I'd say top three ranked as far as best drafting franchises. They didn't have a draft because Ozzy Newsom, Hall of Fame tied out and just at the top of it.

And so, like, when you see how it's all, how it all happens behind the scenes, you're like, okay, this is not just a team, the organization. So I just, I love that time of being able to be BTS, before BTS was a thing with all the players, all the coaches, the equipment guys and the team to see how it worked. And by the way, that was back when I was like having kids. So I was like on the road, beat reporter and then hosting in studio every four or five nights a week and pregnant like and having kids. So that was like my favorite time because I was still like living my dream as a sportscaster trying to get DSPN and you're part of the team but then having having kids and then the players were like protective of me you know on the field pregnant and everything

like it was just a yeah it's just a cool time you know the ray louis is the scariest guy uh when did you wanted to when did you know you wanted to get into journalism like how'd you start i was 11 when i told my mom that i wanted to be a sportscaster so i was like little girl um and my dad was a he played college football. And so at Army at West Point. And so I just wanted to like hang out with my dad. And so on weekends, watching football, watching basketball, that's how I got to do it. You know, when he wasn't at our sporting events, I was with him watching. And I just knew this might sound cheesy to you, but this is legit. Like I, I knew that the best way to be involved in sports since I couldn't play was to talk about it. But I'm an Army kid. Dad was like I said, West Point, like lived all over the world.

Um, and everything was super structured military and watching all those games in different countries when we lived, we lived in Greece, we lived in Belgium. Um, the national anthem played every time. Everybody stood up. No matter where you were in the world, it was like unifying to watch NFL games. And what I saw as a kid was that sports brought people together. So on a football Sunday, it doesn't matter your race, your politics, your religion, your socioeconomic, status. Like, you're at the Dolphins game. They suck this year, but you're at any game. And what's happening for those three hours? You're like, high-fiving strangers. And, like, you're all the same team. And I felt that as a kid. And I was like, this is so cool to be in an environment where everybody's, like, high-fiving and happy and cheering or booing, whatever it is. Like, I wanted to be in that. That's literally where it started. And then it was like, okay, I was super shy. I was like, weirdo-shy. It is kind of funny how you can be a football game, drinking beers and then the guy next to you've never met becomes your best friend for especially

one drinking beers you have to yeah like it's part of it same action yeah it's actually the only place i will have a beer is at a game is that a football game is crazy yeah have you never seen the clip of the guy the eagle's guy that got caught no you've never seen it look it up after this you send it to me no i can't find that clip anywhere has there has there ever been a player was it this guy was rooting for the eagles and he just had a bag of of cocaine in his hand. Oh, that. He caught him on camera. Yeah, no, I'm good.

No, I'm not saying, I'm not promoting that. I'm just saying it's crazy what you see. No, I didn't see it, but it's Philly, so it's typical. I mean, we're not surprised it's Philadelphia, right? It's probably a lot of cocaine at football games, right? Probably. You know your stuff really well, so I want to know your top three NFL players, top three NBA players, in your opinion.

Okay. Favorites or, like, it isn't even a favorite thing as far as like, total respect for Tom Brady. obviously I know but like I didn't want to do you know what turned me what's that against the Falcons that Super Bowl yeah of course I mean greatest performance yeah like and I always respect him it's not that I didn't like him I just never been around him and um it's like everything was so perfect life was open I'm like oh but yeah I mean he's obviously the goat and anyone who argues with that is stupid um I grew up in love with John Elway

I'm from Denver. I know. I know. He's like, He was a god there. It was actually crazy. He was the man. He ran the whole state.

I know. Yeah. So I moved there in 1984. What year was he drafted? 97? 83. 83. Fuck, sorry.

Danmarineau. Damn. Okay. Jim Kelly. Yeah. Yeah. So like that class of 83 was like, arguably, I think the all time greatest quarterback class drafted ever.

And so I moved there in 80s. before. And I was like, I'm not from Colorado, but I moved there. And I was like, what is this like orange crush Sunday? Like, I've memorized all the jerseys and names of like the offensive line. Carl Mecklenburg was number 77, Rulon Jones, 75 is the center. Like, I was obsessed. And so what I saw was Elway, like, taking over a whole state. So I would wear, like, I would wear his jersey to church on Sundays. I dressed up as Mrs. Elway for Halloween every year because I was like weird obsessed with him. I wrote him a letter once. Yeah, I don't know if he got it. Probably. Like probably not right probably not but I was like I mean I was like in high school yeah and I was like hi um if you if you ever need a babysitter like I'm a really good babysitter and I won't charge like this is how weird I was but no I and call you understand Colorado was like he still is like the man there it's crazy he hasn't aged very well no but yeah I mean I don't want to throw shade in him because he's like the goat there but but be honest yeah I mean he's his issues okay so that's just my personal favorite he's been a frat boy for his whole life so yeah even at stanford yeah yeah yeah for sure i mean people forget that he was drafted by that wasn't the yankees well i don't know the baseball he was drafted first round of major league baseball didn't he didn't he get drafted to the colts and his dad wouldn't let him play for them correct yeah then i've moved to the colts or to the indiana after colorado and of course my john elway

love was not received while there because they're like yeah i mean that changes your franchise forever if you have John Elway, look, right? Eventually, we got our Super Bowls, didn't we? It took a minute. Yeah. So Elway, and then I'd say, um, oh, my all time favorite player, all time, all time, all time, Walter Payton. Sweetness.

Like the most incredible, humble athlete, probably the NFL has ever seen. Um, my dad, when we would watch him play for the Bears, he would be like, watch that. watch him. He scored a touchdown and he had trot off the field and he'd hand the ball to the official to someone that sidelines and walk off and he'd be like, see kids, act like you've been there. That's how you want to be in life. You don't have to show boat and like, and again, that was before everything was viral and everything. But he, I was taught from my military dad. Like, that's how you handle things with class and grace. And it's like, yeah, that's my job. I score touchdowns. So like, I was in, I love him as a person. I got to meet Jared Payton who worked at he,

P-N for a while. And you didn't like the Dion Sanders celebrations? I thought they were fun. It was not my style. And I covered Dion. His last year in the NFL was with the Ravens, who I covered in 2005. Yeah, like I still, I haven't talked to him in a while, but we'll still keep in touch. I love you.

I mean, Prime was one of one. Yeah. You know, and he changed the sport in so many ways and went and played baseball, right? I mean, these two sport athletes on that professional level is, is really crazy. It's just not my style of sweetness. Like he was, but again, it's a different era. And who's like that now? Who's super humble?

I mean, certainly not any receivers. That's not. That runs the ball like that? Right. I mean, they're divas, no. I mean, Sequin's kind of like that. I love Sequin Barclay. Like, he's one of my favorites of, like, today's generation.

He's a team guy. Yeah. And he's the man, so. Yeah. Celebrations are fine. But you asked me my favorite back then of all time, Walter Pate. And I like to Tony Dorset, too. But it's like a whole

I mean, who didn't love OJ Simpson To be honest with you Like take away the crazy after football But during football You know Unfortunately you have to separate a lot now Like you have the athlete And you have the human being

And I'm like if I could just focus on the athlete Like love you love you love you Do you have any interactions with him When he played for the bills? No, I never met him That was I'm not that old RIP OJ We had him on the podcast once

I didn't see that Yeah we had him on What year was that? When was that? When was that? He was the years ago? When did he die? Two or three years ago.

Yeah. When did he die like a year ago? Yeah. Yeah. How was he? He's charming. And he fooled us. He's very charming.

He pulled us. Did you go deep about, you know, the murder? They told us that we couldn't ask that question. But like, we had to. We had to. How did he handle it? Again, I'm be honest. He was so charming.

Like, we met him. We're like, fuck, this guy's, he's so charming. There's no way he did it. Is that what you're thinking? Well, it's like, kind of hard to believe that you're like with a murderer right in a way especially when he's like so nice and stuff and we're just talking about his career and then the whole time like I knew I had to ask the question so I was just like I had to get like six happy dads in me to like ask him so I kept

like just trying to get a little more hammered and then eventually we were just like so like do you think the killer is like still out there like yeah he did it was it was terrified it's still like he basically said that he didn't want to talk about it right so I don't want to talk about there but you didn't say yeah he's still out there I think he said he's still out there Or like something like that Yeah, he's sitting right in front of you I was just say it Well, we were also at like a restaurant

And there was like cutlery on the table And like there's a knife I saw I was like thinking about the butter knife Right in front of you Like a fork I don't know And he was sitting right next to him Yeah I was right next to him

And the table was like it wasn't like this It was like the smallest Booth table of all time Like it couldn't have been a worst setup For OJ Simpson I mean yeah it's easy i mean once the cameras are off we got the hell out of there yeah you're like yeah we got the hell was he was he big still yeah i mean i know he's older yeah he was a big guy yeah he

pulled up in a bronco too shut up yeah yeah we did shut up on purpose yeah yeah no you did we did we did we're gonna film it but i don't think he wanted to be a part of it was it white no we couldn't get one last minute that would have been too obviously would have been like oh we put it in the video i think yeah yeah that's amazing no but like he was awesome to watch And then when you look back at all those old commercials Like everyone in this everyone in America loved him He's handsome, he had the smile He's hurtling over chairs in the airport

Like he was OJ, it's so sad, I know NBA, Michael Steph Curry Steph Curry's sick Yeah, I love him I love Steph I love him and like that guy's a winner I like stuff

Totally right And he's a winner That's what we're talking about earlier Like you talk about loyal and wanting to stay Like I want to play with that guy Like if I was in the NBA Yeah like I would love to play with What do you think about the Aisha Curry stuff?

No comment. That shit's wild. You can't lie. The thing she said. One of my daughters sent me one of the clips. And she's like, Mom, I'm so disappointed. Why? And I'm like, I don't know.

Sometimes you like to think things are taken out of context. I don't know. I didn't watch the whole thing. I don't watch that show, that podcast. I know she's crushing it. But I don't know. She's always been like super cool with me. The kids, I've seen.

them from a distance really growing up, you know what I mean? I don't know. I do know that like, you know, no matter what the public sees and how perfect life looks for couples, you can be billionaires and I mean, she's beautiful and he's beautiful and the kids are beautiful and life's beautiful and you have rings and everybody's got something. It's almost like the more people flex it too, I find, like the more people flex it on social media, it's like they're trying, not Steph, but just other relationships. too it's like the more they're trying to prove it to everybody yeah like what's that yeah i agree

but everybody has and in a marriage right everybody has i got married two months ago you guys oh wow congratulations yes congratulations thanks um obviously round two for both of us but like i could not be in a better relationship marriage like i'm so grateful to him to god to like life to for the journey that it took to get here i'm i'm almost 53 he's almost 50 like it's been a long you know and I literally wouldn't change anything it doesn't mean there's not still stuff right but like everybody's got something my parents just celebrated their 54th wedding anniversary 54 years and by the way super hard mom's white dad's black they got married 1971 right after interracial marriage became legal they saw some stuff they went through some stuff

like it was not easy and to me they're perfect perfectly imperfect they've got stuff even though they are obviously after 54 years true soulmate so I feel like I try not to judge that part because I've been judged for stuff less important than a marriage you know what I mean um but I love what they've done those babies are perfect like um most importantly step and curry to me has handled everything like like what he thinks about that situation don't you wonder with when when people go public like that with kind of personal stuff I'm like number one why. Number two, what is that conversation like later? When you're like, really? Like, why did you say that for the world to see? So I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear what happens

when, you know, again, we've seen it many people besides the curries, but like, wouldn't you want to be a fly in the wall and listen to that conversation? Or not, maybe I'd want to get the heck out. But, you know, it's easy for us to judge from here. And I don't know, I know that I would not say something like that about someone that I love but teach his own has there ever been an athlete that you've interviewed that you were like absolutely starstruck by well first of all I would get nervous a lot even people that I knew I was nervous more times than I wasn't but I channeled it like I figured out how to channel it to make me like like work through it and it's I used it like as adrenaline and crunch time because whether you're ready or not if you

have Stefan Curry who I interviewed several times one-on-one sitting right there like the 1030 start he walks in right at 1029 like ready or not he's sitting down you better go like that's pressure yeah and if you suck you're not going to get another chance ever again so I was always a little nervous I for me it was healthy um I just had to learn how to handle it and not like not eat leading up to me when I was younger when I was older especially on sports center whereas I was doing two live hours every single day like you got to go and you new people and superstars in every day, or just your buddy Adam Schefter, who's one of my favorite humans. And, like, I was always really nervous. I mean, talking, you know what, one thing I did for

Michael Jordan once, I hosted his charity event when he was still with the Charlotte Hornets. And I was super nervous for that because it's his team. It's part of the ownership. And I'm seeing this big charity event for the franchise. And he was sitting at the table front row center right there. Like, you know, they introduce you, come out on stage. I wanted to vomit. Because, I mean, he was my favorite athlete back in the day. We'd all watch him play, dominate the way he did. And then to be asked to do that, I remember being that, that's pressure because, like, they were trusting me. And if I screw that up, again, you never get asked again. So, like, all of them are high pressure situations. You just have to learn to do it. And if you don't, no big deal. You want to have a job.

But, like, it's that simple. Like, you have to have to push through it. If you were going to start an NBA franchise tomorrow, would you rather have SGA or Nicole Yokage? How old are they now? SGA is probably 27. I think Joker is probably 30, 31, maybe. I think I still go with Joker.

Thank you. I just love his demeanor of, he doesn't even like anything associated with basketball. Half time he doesn't even like basketball, right? But he's just all. business and then he goes home to his like what is it a horse farm or cattle farm where he's from like you can't you can't produce big men like that with that skill set you can't i love sGA though but it would be joker okay cool so otherwise he's like okay

you're out like did you see him he was like okay good or else i just the MVP like people hated it people hated that joker was winning i'm gonna say he did get robbed one year by I agree, and that wasn't talking about enough. I agree. I think we know what that was. Yeah, I agree. So, yeah. Who do you think wins MVP this year?

I know it's early on. It's the season. Yeah, but if you were to give a prediction. I don't know. There's like a couple guys, right? SGA, Joker. Wembe could possibly win it. But even though it's early in the season.

If he stays healthy, yeah. I don't know. I will say, um, look out for my Pacers. Look out for Rick Carlyle. what he does with that team who were super close. I know people are like, oh, my God, Indiana, Oklahoma City Finals. Like, this is the worst thing ever's. It's good.

I'm biased because that was my first team that I covered, Reggie Miller, like those days. The problem with us that time is that our timing, which was what? Pacers in the East, Michael Bulls. Like, couldn't do anything about that. We had no chance to ever win because Michael was there. So I think this is Indiana's time. I think it could easily be a rematch in the finals. I don't know how many people would.

like that, but I think it could. These small market teams, like, every once in a while, it's kind of cool, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Like, it's kind of cool to see them. And that's all that they're, like in Indiana, I went to Indiana University. Like, it is basketball. Though now we're a football school. Thank you, number two in the country.

But I think it's awesome for the sport where it's not just the Knicks, the Lakers, you know what I mean? I mean, the Knicks. Hi, that's a whole different story and issue. Well, everyone one of the Celtics, too. And Jason Tatum is one of my favorite players. I love him. It's an interesting situation in Boston. I feel like every year there's a million questions going in. There's got to be something behind the scenes between just him and Jalen Brown. Yeah, it seems like it's been kind of like for a lot of years now. I love Jason. One time before I left ESPN, I think it might still be online with ESPN or Disney Plus, whatever. But I, it was called up close. Up close with Sage Steel. And it was up close with Rory Firestone back in the day for anybody who might remember. But I went to St. Louis and spent the day with Jason. And we went back to like his. his childhood home that's as big as this couch and like with his mom and he talked he went deep

about like his dad and some really difficult things is very emotional so again when you sit down and have conversations with people and like get to know more than just the superstar part you see their why and I love that with him I totally forgot about your question though I don't know maybe it is SGA like I don't know I don't know I feel like at Christmas when you get to Christmas day NBA games where there's five of them right I mean mean, five, they're like the big ones on ABC, SPNT&T, that's when you put your MVP bed in. I know, like, all the gambling sites, you do it now. But for me, then you have enough of a sample size.

And that's when people start paying attention anyway to the NBA. You've got to get to the beginning of the calendar year once football is in the playoffs and winding down, you know, has the problem. Like, football dominates everything. It's not a problem. It's a good thing. But it dominates everything, every conversation. You know what I mean?

year round. There's like no time off from football. So the NBA comes in second a little bit. And then the NHL, of course, is always like way down the third place. But the problem of the playoffs are at the same time. Like it's so hard. How would you change that? Because I want hockey to get more love. But when you're competing with the NBA at the exact same time, Stanley Cup, NBA finals games, you know? Yeah. Who's your guy? I've always loved Kyrie. I've always loved Kyrie already, man. Me too. He's such a great ball handler.

He's just, he's great at scoring his finesse. I love Kyrie. How is Kyrie now? Like 34. Like 32? 303. Older than that. Yeah.

He's, he's a bit older. Yeah, 34. Think about that. I was there for that 2016 finals that they won. Thanks to Kyrie. Not LeBron. Thanks to Kyrie. Of course, LeBron.

Well, the block, too. Kyrie won. Yeah, that was, that was crazy. Kyrie won that series. And can we give Kyrie some love now? Oh, yeah. After, like, getting crushed during COVID and people murdered him for walking away from his $34 million a year salary because he don't want to get the shot. The things everybody said about him, I know Stephen A came out recently and it's like, yeah, Kyrie was right.

Nobody's apologizing to him. Like, nobody. The world crushed him. And he was right. And he never got it. He never got it. He walked away from that season. Like, I give him so much.

much credit for that. That is super hard. And I remember being on air and everybody's just like, you don't care and it's selfish and your teammates. I think it's bigger than that. I guarantee you that all these other athletes that say they got it did not. There's no way. Like I remember at the beginning, LeBron said, I spent a million dollars a year on my body, like outside of work and all the training and the nutrition and all that stuff. You're not just going to put some experimental shot in your body when you're them and then remember he said it and then they silenced him and then all of a sudden it was just quiet there is no way in hell way they these guys got it they got it they got some it was water that they did so they could say yeah we gave a shot i got a fax card for a thousand dollars

that was the best a thousand dollars yeah good for you it's good i mean it's gone now but it's it it was the best a thousand i never got it no no i never got it either yeah i just didn't see the need to get it totally did my parents fucking pressure me or you did right yeah you did i get it no i That's my whole thing. I got it because I had to because I had been public enough about the fact that I didn't want to that I was looking into a fake. And I was like, if I get like, they're going to come triple check me because I've mouthed off about it. It was tougher for you. And then if I get caught, my life is over.

Like four years ago when this is happening when I was getting forced to do it. So I still, I still am like mad. I've had to like forgive myself for doing it at that time. But I had to keep my job. millions people did like i'm one of millions so there's no sympathy here i'm just saying um but like for kairi for him to take that stand publicly yeah publicly and every single person was killing him and is he unique and different and they say the earth is flat like all that fine fine but like at the end of the day kairi is true to himself how many other guys are michael porter junior that's

interesting he's true himself he is different way Yeah, I guess he is, and so is his brother. That's one of our other guys, too, MPJ. I met him when he was in high school at Steph Curry's camp. I always loved him. His dad? He talks very openly. He does.

I respect it. Like, it is rare. How about Aaron Rogers? Yeah. Same thing. He got killed. Aaron and I were getting canceled at the same time. So I remember I was like a month into my cancellation for the COVID thing.

And then his happen. I texted him right away. And I was like, dude, stay strong. And so we became, you know, closer friends after that because of this whole thing. And he was like, the number of people star, star, top name athletes in my sport in the NFL who were calling him, who were like, yeah, dude, you're right. I'm with you. I'm with you. But then what would they do? They get in front of a microphone in the podium for their press conferences and say the opposite. So you can think Aaron and Kyrie and everybody is,

weird or whatever it is, but guess what? Those guys, they had the balls to say the truth and in the toughest possible time. And now everybody's just quiet because they were right. I wish I had had the strength that you two did. All right. Well, thank you so much. No, this was great. You're very cool.

You're cool as fuck. No, thank you guys. I would love to come down your way, though. Yeah, we should do some more stuff together. I would love it. And I'll take, like I told you, I'm super new to this whole. Some advice. world and it's so it needs to be a sports show on youtube but something that's more like quick

because you're doing like long form pods right we should set up like a sports show under full send with sage steel and have maybe two or one other person on the panel and like just takes well i'll tell you yeah it should be whatever you whatever like should be a little edgier too no it has to be so cool you could just obviously be yourself and it'd be so easy that's the best part about getting canceled and then you don't care you don't care. I'm like, go for it, guys. I have been literally called everything. Death rats. Like, it's fine. It's fine. Like, go for it. And every day, I'm like, huh, isn't it weird? I'm still here. And, like, actually now better off than when you, because they try to scare you into silence, right? And then you go, what? So it's cool because now I literally don't care. It's so nice. I'm just that it took me so long, because I'm old. Like, dang. Like, you guys are, like, you have your whole life and current. Thank you. Life and like. 53. I would never guess that. Thank you. I thought you're 30, 33. Black, don't crack.

That's what they say. No, but like, seriously, it's such a, I just wish, like, people didn't wait as long as I had, you know. To get canceled. Yeah, to get canceled. No, to not be afraid of, like, what happens if you're yourself, you know? And then it's like, it's just, it's easier, you know? So, like, I'm jealous of you guys in a healthy, respectful way because you guys got it before I did. Yeah.

So. I think we've been through a lot of the same. stuff probably well but that's the thing is people see your life now and they're probably like oh no boys and you guys have this you're making all this money and it's fame and it yeah no one gave it to you no you had to go make this and create it and earn it and learn and fall in your face and get back up and no one talks about that they just want to talk about your success so I mad respect yeah you thank you so much thank you thank you for coming to my home podcast we'll put it in the description thank you how often do you upload on that every Wednesday every Wednesday it's because

it's long form i'm gonna tap in more will you yeah that'd be amazing well i'm coming to you guys too i mean if i get you on camera saying yes you'll come in my show then you have to you right so can you yeah you're real you're recording on this you're still rolling yeah let's do it great so now you have no choice okay let's do it awesome that would be awesome sage deal thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you You know, I'm going to be. You know,

You know,