FULL SEND PODCAST - Skip Bayless | Ep. 170

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Presented by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. Find Happy Dad near you http://happydad.com/find (21+ only). Video is available on http://youtube.com/fullsendpodcast/videos. Follow Nelk Boys on Instagram http://instagram.com/nelkboys. Part of the Shots Podcast Network (shots.com). You can listen to the audio version of this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & anywhere you listen to podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So follow me on the app. Download the prize picks app. It's available in 40 states, California, Texas. Use code no. shout at the prize fix best after fire on sports in the game let's get into the podcast all right guys welcome back to the full send podcast we have another legendary episode today we got a legend in the building skip bayless joining us today how we doing uh that depends on you you're i mean so i just you just compliment to me said i'm looking fit but you're looking you're looking

jacked bro well i'll accept that but you look really good thank you yeah and you let's go i know for a fact It ain't that easy. It's not. How often do you work out a week? I do cardio every single day. For how long? For an hour. I'm not bragging about it.

I'm just addicted to it because I like it. And so I can't start a work day without an hour of sweating. And then I hit the weights three days, a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. What do you do for cardio? Stationary bike. Or I run on the treadmill. Used to run outside like a maniac. And I found in L.A.

It's just too dangerous. And I took my life in my own hands numerous times out here in this traffic and finally said, that's enough of that. Too dangerous because of cars? Yeah. Yeah. For years and years, I was a psycho marathoner for a long time back in the day. How many marathons have you done? I did 10.

I ran my first one in February. You did? Where? I was supposed to do it with my buddies in Florida. Yeah. But we were traveling. We were doing a video in India. So I wasn't going to make it back in time because of the flight.

So I just, I already, but I had already trained for it and I'd ran 20 miles. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to get out of shape. So I just did it myself in India. You did it by yourself? Yeah. Cool. Our assistant Gabe was on the scooter, like passing me bananas. Really?

Yeah, it was good. And then I'm... Did you keep time? Yeah, I got four and a half hours. Okay, cool. It could have been a bit faster, but I think if I was, you know, if I had someone pacing me a little bit, I could have done a little faster. Solo was tough.

You're going to do it in a crowd? I'm going to do another one in Hawaii in December. And then, I don't know, are you familiar with Gary Breka? No. He's like a biohacker. He's helped like Dana White with his health. With his son, I'm doing a hundred miles, a hundred miles at the end of January. Yeah.

100 miles, how? So you have 36 hours to do it. Yeah. And can you- I think Steinie's going to jump in for some of it? Yeah, a couple miles I'll come in. Say what's up. And can you walk?

Yeah, I think you sit and you like, I've seen people like changing their shoes and like you stop to eat. So it's different than a marathon. I don't think it says cardio-based. I think it's more just like time on feet, staying awake for 30 hours. But it'll be interesting. Why are you going to do that? What's your motivation? I mean, with our stuff, we're always like traveling. Like, we obviously own an alcohol brand. So we're into some unhealthy stuff. So I find when I find when you put like, you know, healthy stuff or like workout based stuff, you just put it on the calendar. I think it subconsciously, it keeps you, you know, dialed in. Yeah.

You know, because if I'm like, you know, if I have to go to Vegas this weekend, also in the back of my head, I know, like, yeah, I'm running a marathon in December. Like, I can't fuck off too hard. Or if I do, I'm going to fuck off in Vegas. Let's be real. You will. The next day I got to get up. Okay.

And I can't lie in bed or I can't go eat like a shitty meal. I got to go sweat it out. True. Maybe jump in the cold tub and then right back to business, you know. I work with a lot of ex-athletes. what I do, constantly debating with them, sparring with them on show. And it's intriguing to me because for most of their lives up to this point, they were forced by just their profession to stay in shape and the literal games kept them in shape. And then all of a sudden they

turned back into a normal human that we have to deal with where they're, they're no shortcuts. And I watch some of them slowly expand this way because they're like, well, I did all the, you know, I had to work out. I had to work out. I had to do this. I had to play the games. And then they become normal humans. And they're like, damn, I have to do it again tomorrow? Yeah, you do. Because if you don't, it's a never-ending battle from here on. But it's just funny to me to watch them turn back into us as far as staying in shape because there's no magic pill to it. You know, even if you take anabolic steroids, it won't do any good unless you go to the gym, right? Told you. What? Steroids? What about it? You always want to jump on a cycle? Yeah,

it's a sauce around. When the time's right. Yeah. I said I'd try steroids out. But if you want to get bigger or more ripped or more cut, steroids. Okay, but it's fine if, you do the work. You still have to do the work. Yeah, that's true. And if you do the work, it'll really work. Yeah, definitely. You asked me how we got started in this. How did you first get started in like sports broadcasting? My life changed when I was a sophomore in high school, like act of God, if you will, because neither of my parents finished high school, I'm pretty sure. And I was the oldest of three. They were both alcoholic wrecks and didn't care about my schooling or anything else. And by fate, I wind up in an English class in a public high school

taught by the journalism teacher. And she taught one a day just to see if she could find anybody who could write a little bit who would write for the school newspaper. So first day of school, she assigns us all a book report. She said, I don't care what you. Just pick any book you like, read it and write me a one page book report because I want to see if any of the few people can write. She was very intimidating and sort of psychologically verbally abusive of the kids because she just, she's just above it all. So I'm a sports guy. I always played everything. And I chose a sports book, wrote a one pager, but the book was so bad that I ripped it. And I'd never written more than my name. And I wrote a scathing, like I didn't know any better. I wrote a

scathing review of the book because it was just crap. It felt like it had been written overnight. And in about 20 minutes, I just blasted the hell out of it. And I thought, I don't know any better. I'll turn this in. And a week past, Friday, bell rings, we're going to the next class. And she says, Skip Bayliss, I need to see you after class. So I don't know, but this is going to be the turning point in my existence. she said, you're coming into journalism. And I thought I was in trouble at that, you know, like I'd done something wrong. And she said, no, no, you're going to write me two sports columns a week. I said, I play sports.

She said, I know you play sports. I've checked up on you. You can still play for these teams, but I want you to also write about the teams. Okay. I don't know anything about journalism. She said, you don't need to know anything of journalism. You can just write. And I said, well, how do you know I can write?

She said, I just know. trust me, you've got the gift of writing. That's crazy. Okay. I'm like, okay, I guess my path just changed because I thought I'd play college something and I wound up not being quite good enough to play college anything as most of us do. But I wind up writing two sports columns and by my senior year, I played on a baseball team with a coach I hated. And at the end of the year, I blasted the coach. And it's funny because I didn't need to quote anybody because I'm on the inside. You know, like I'm actually playing for the team. And so I can do inside chapter and verse of why he's a bad coach. And I was off to the races. So, you know, like I realized, well, people like that

because they got to know something they didn't know from the inside out. And then I ended up winning a scholarship to go off at Vanderbilt University to write about. about sports and this is back in the day when sport, you know, written, you know, the newspapers just dominated in those days and there was no real TV or radio yet. And then it was just a natural segue into talk radio first and then into television next because life changed, viewing habits, consumption habits changed. And so I just went with the flow from radio to television now to internet. So, but she did it. Her name was Liz Burdett, my journalism teacher, and she just forced me into something. I wouldn't be sitting here if that hadn't happened. Have you ever

went back and seen her? She's not with us anymore, but I got inducted, it's no big deal, into the, I was Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, but I got inducted into the public schools Hall of Fame in Oklahoma City. And she came and sat at the head table with my mom. who's no longer with this, and that was night of nights, where I was able to thank her. There must have been a thousand people there. I thanked her in front of a giant crowd for what she did for me. And I kept in touch with her, and I told her all along that she was it. I wouldn't have done it without her. And when she said, you're coming into journalism, it was like, it wasn't a will you, it was you are. So it was the offer you cannot refuse. And she was very

um she's very intimidated she had big black hair big red lipstick everybody was afraid of her and so i was like well if she's blessing me then i might this must be right and my scholarship that i wanted to vanderbilt she did everything she that's crazy signed me up she told me i was going to go to the university of oklahoma because every friend of mine was going there because it's a great party school and i just thought well i'll just go with the flow and she told me you got to take the SAT because it's for out of state kids to take instead the ACT. And so I had to go take this. And I thought, this is crazy. I'll never win the scholarship. And then they don't pick it until late in the year. And I came in one night from baseball practice. And I knew Nashville, Tennessee,

where Vanderbilt is is area code 615. And my mom, who was never home, left me a note on the kitchen table that said, somebody called from area code 615. And when I saw it, I thought, Damn, you know, like, life just changed. I'm out. I'm free. Like, I've got my ticket to ride now. I got a full scholarship to Vanderbilt that she could have never paid for. So I was off to the races. I'm honestly curious about that. Your story and just based off of, like, Adam Schaefter, who used to write for the Denver Post, now he's one of the biggest talents at ESPN. Know them well. It seems like this whole old school journalism, college, it's not even a thing anymore. Like, I can't even watch some of these shows because it seems like they just bring on anybody. Have you noticed that throughout your career? Like, even right now, how it just seems like there's no qualifications to

go on there and speak on the stuff. To be on the show, you mean? Like, yeah, just even on like an ESPN panel. But your point is, Adam was qualified. Yeah, like you guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a similar story. Like he went to Michigan journalism, same path, kind of. Yeah, I'd like to think that the people they put on now have great personalities, you know, like they have charisma. They have some on-air attraction that works that connects with people i mean now youtube is filled with people i think that's like i think that's any tv network now not just sports okay like i was i was watching fox news the other day yeah same thing they're putting on any conservative girl yeah on there right now like i saw a chick at like a republican party that was like hammered and

shit and then i looked on the tv and i saw she was like giving a take on like ukraine and russia And I was like, dude. The specific reason I brought that up. It's just no qualifications. I think of this. I can't even remember what her name is, but she was with a friend of yours, Stephen A. Yeah. And our buddy Drewski was on there, and she's like, well, you're wearing the Sanders jersey,

and it's a Barry Sanders, and she thought it was Shadour. And she's sitting there on ESPN, and I'm just like, how is this position possible? And I guess it makes the point of, like, how can you tell when someone's just trying to be an entertainer? Yeah. And, like, stir the pot, which you know how to do very well, or if they actually believe in that take. we'd have to take it case by case, you know, with each new person that we're talking about. But it was funny to me because I am, as my wife will attest, a sports diehard. Like, I'm crazed.

I watch everything to her regrets. I just, I can't, I'm going to watch it anyway. So I was possessed with this job. Like I, I truly actually care about it. And yet I came up with a number of guys out of the newspaper mold who were certainly qualified to do the job, but who didn't really love sports, but did it because, like, everybody says I can do this, so I guess I should do it. So there was always a big continental divide for me between guys who really care about it and guys who could take it or leave it and just did it because, oh, wait, TV starts. starting to pay money, so I think I'll do this. And I assume a lot of those new people are just doing it because they have a spark and their personality that works on TV. Would you agree that

there was a lot of times where you just said stuff that you didn't believe in, but you knew it would get rage bait or like... Not one time. Not one time. Never ever ever. Wait, you saw the starting five. What can we bring up the starting five? With Kwame Brown, I think you had in your all-time starting five. I did not. Yeah, you did. This was 10 years ago. False. Totally false. I'm looking up right now. Okay, well, you've read some bogus web. This is real as a kid. Quame Brown? Wrong. What's one take you regret the most in your career? I don't have any regrets on text. I'm just telling you the God's truth. You can ask anybody who's known me forever, I have no regrets. Has there ever been like a player that you've criticized, like approach you face to face? Like, has it ever gotten like to the point where it's been like, I don't know, hostile or just yell. Like, sure. I mean, many times, more when I was in the newspaper phase, always. Like, like. every other day. Really? It was

more back then? Well, because... You just show him this, so he sees it. Okay. It says Skip Bayless, starting five. It can read the names. It's just a lot. Is this AI? I don't know, but Kwame Brown was a complete... You mean, can you read the names? One player on my team, and that's Michael Jordan. So,

voila, here's my team, and I'm going to have you read the name. This is a joke. They're all joke. Yeah. Everybody's a joke on here. Okay. They're all jokes. Okay. The internet twists its words then.

It's okay. They said this is your all-time starting five, so they twisted it a little bit. Scrub starting five. Well, it's just ridiculous. Okay. TikTok, Kyrie LeBron. You said Kyrie over LeBron, right? Kyrie over LeBron is a clutch shooter, definitely.

Yeah. He won LeBron one of his rings with a late clutch shot in game seven at Oracle Arena. So what about, you don't think LeBron won him, his ring? Couldn't you play that both ways? Sure. No, you could. But, again, my issue with LeBron from the start is not born with a clutch gene. Great player, great offensive player, not so much on defense over the last 10 years.

But when it comes to making the shot at the moment in the game, LeBron has been a disaster, because that is not his forte. So he'll never be the goat in your book? Heck no. Really? Over Michael Jordan? I mean, he's first in all-time scoring. He's top 10, top five, and rebounds. He's four-and-six in the finals.

I mean, still, four-time MVP, you know, four-time champ. What about this statement? Would you agree that if Stefan Curry didn't exist, LeBron would probably be the unanimous best player of all-time? Steph Curry? Like if he didn't exist? No, it's just Michael Jordan. Period. End of story.

If Michael didn't exist, I guess we could get a discussion going about LeBron. Where's LeBron in your rankings? I have a ninth of all. And you actually believe that. Wow. And who's behind that? So who's one through eight? One through eight.

I got Jordan. I got magic. I got Kareem. I got Shaq. Tyler, you might help me on this. Okay. Because I haven't changed. Tim Duncan is up there.

Tim Duncan's up there. Larry Burr. Do you think Kobe over LeBron? Yes, definitely. I don't know about that. I'm going to be very honest. Like, I love Kobe. but I think

I think LeBron's over Kobe. Who would you want ball in hand, late game, game seven for your life? I know, but I don't think it's fully about that. I mean, LeBron has accomplished so many things in the sport, right? So you can't just base it off the last two minutes, skip. I mean, I don't think that's fair. Why does the last shot define who the better player? That's not fair at all.

It just does if over time, because LeBron in the biggest moments has just been a nightmare. What about? been so many epic fails from LeBron, if you look hard at his career. Did he average 40 in that finals when Kyrie won? He did. I mean, that's pretty impressive. No, no.

You're talking about the one where they lost to Steph. He still averaged 40 games. I think that was when they were saying he could have still on 2018. 2016, game five, 2015, he was, yeah. That's when LeBron was at his greatest for the first three games. And he's up two games to one without. He'd lost Kyrie to the fractured. kneecap and he'd lost Kevin Love before the finals even started. And what happened in game

four in LeBron's house when he had a chance to shut my mouth for sure, because now you've got a chance. You're up two to one with game four in your house in Cleveland, Ohio, and go look at what happened. He was 7 of 22. He was 3 of 8 from the free throw line. He was 2 of 8 from 3, and they got waxed because Steve Kerr switched Andre Iga Dada onto LeBron to guard him, and Iggy took him to the cleaners on offense and on defense and became the MVP. Well, he became the MVP of the series, so you laugh, but he was the MVP.

Okay, that was the change right there. So LeBron had a chance to make a big statement, and he failed. Going back to the Kobe LeBron thing, what, so besides the last two minutes, why do you think Kobe's better than LeBron? I mean, LeBron has led his team in more championships. He has more MVP. He's number one in scoring. He's top five, top 10, and literally everything.

So I don't understand how you could put Kobe over LeBron. Kobe was a cold-blooded basketball killer, Mamba mentality. 100%. This is a team game at the end of the day, Skip. Okay, I got it. But Kobe could assist when he decided, but when it's time to score in the biggest games, I know he had Shaq, but for a long time, LeBron had D. Wade and Chris Bosch and Spoe and Pat Riley.

You could say the same thing for other players that are great as well. Like, you know, same thing for Kobe. Colby doesn't get enough. Tim Duncan at Tony Parker, Monagioble, you know what I mean? They never bring up Paul Gasol either with Kobe. And he was, they never, yeah. But as far as leading your team and like, you know, you say championships are everything, right? I mean, I'd say so, right, if you're winning a lot.

Look, if I could take LeBron as a baby at 18 or, whatever, Kobe at 18 as a baby, and I'm going to start my team with one or the other. I'm taking Kobe. So in my rankings, you can have your rankings, but I'm putting Kobe just a half. If you really look hard at LeBron's epic fails, you're focusing on the negative skip, I think. You've got to look at what he's done for the game. I think what happened in game six, and I was a Spurs fan at this point, because I love Parker, Genoblee and Tim, obviously. Yeah, Spurs team's good. Game six, 2013 finals. Miami.

Down the stretch of that game, in the last three minutes, LeBron had three turnovers in this game, three unforced error turnovers where he just made a bad pass that got stolen. In the last minute, came two of those turnovers.

Then LeBron misses the big three to tie the game, long rebound out to Chris Bosch, why Tim Duncan was on the bench, don't get me started, but that's my lifelong beef with Coach Pop, but he wasn't, he was out of the game for whatever of purpose. So long rebound to Chris Bosch, who kicks it quickly and deftly into the corner to Ray Allen, who somehow gets

his feet behind the line and makes the greatest clutch shot I have ever witnessed of magnitude. It was magnitude because it sent the game to overtime. And it tore my heart out. It ripped their hearts out, and they could not get up off the mat. And that shot saved LeBron from being three and seven in the finals, right? Why does that tear your heart out? Well, because I was a spurs fan. Just because you like them? Like, it's just the lineup of the players? Yeah. I mean, I just

loved the way they played bad. They played real live, beautiful basketball. It was old school. It was fundamental, and it wasn't fun to watch. Most people called them broccoli. Yeah. No, it was a good team. That's first team was good. Yeah, 2013, 20, I remember. Three Hall of Famers on that team. They did? Let me ask you. So did. LeBron.

Yeah, he did. But, okay, so then the next year, just to finish the point, game one, the Spurs win. But game two, Chris Bosch has a huge game, and they win. So it's one-to-one going home to Miami. This is 2014 finals against the same San Antonio Spurs. And go look it up. I don't want to bore you with the details. But LeBron just disappeared in games.

Kauai was showing up throughout the heat. Three, four, at home. And then they went back to San Antonio for what became the close-out game five. And LeBron was just a good. ghost. And they lost. The Miami Heat lost the finals by a record finals margin. They got blown out by more points than any teams ever lost a finals. And it was five games, what they call a gentleman sweep. And even I, as a non-Lebron fan, was like, man, what's wrong with you? And I never heard that he was hurt. They usually come up with some big excuse or something. And then let's just do one more.

Just let's go to 2017. Okay, now we're to the Warriors versus LeBron. That's just, come on, dude. Katie, stop. Can't expect.

Okay. Okay. Game one. Okay. At Oracle. LeBron has the, he's a terrible shooter. He's,

I can just show you the stats. For his career from three, he's 34%. It's bad. Well, he's gotten way better recently. Okay, he has. I do give you that. Yeah.

just last year, it's year 22. And I'm saying, where were you all these years, man? You say you're in the lab in the off season and you couldn't improve that. And his free throw shooting is even worse. It's gotten, well, he always says, I'm in the lab in the off season. I'm saying, well, why don't you stand at the free time? He's really improved on a three point shooting at the later end of his career. All right, but late late. He didn't have to. I mean, no one's ever done at this level. He didn't need that early on. Okay. All right. So we got this game one at Oracle. And he shoots the ball from outside better than he ever has in any finals game. He is crazy on fire hot, which occasionally he gets.

But this mattered because this is the biggest stage in the sport. You have a chance to win game one against a clearly superior team to your point with Kevin Durant and Steph and Clay. Drey-Mond. Okay, all right, I got it. We get to the end. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. they're down one point. They have a chance to make history here. And he gets, LeBron gets the switch he wants. He gets Steph on him. And Steph's, I don't know what, he's listed six three, six two, you know, whatever. He's six two-ish.

LeBron is a full six feet, nine inches tall. He's got him. And he's got, he's maybe, it's like the Jordan shot at Utah that won game six, the most famous hold the post shot. So, so LeBron has a chance to do this. is from maybe a foot or two outside the free throw line. Go up and shoot a jumper. But you're going to have to shoot it, do or die, because if you miss, it's over, okay? Because you're down one. He starts to go up, and at the last second, he passes to George Hill.

He used to be a San Antonio Spuror, who I never liked, because I never trusted him in these kind of clutch situations. He passes it to George Hill, and Clay Thompson's like, okay, you got me. I'm going to tackle him. So he just tackles George Hill and forces George Hill to go to the free throw line, which you have to do at that moment. George Hill goes and makes the first, and you knew what was coming.

He misses the second one. And J.R. Smith gets the rebound and loses his mind because it's like two seconds left, and he's dribbled it away from the basket. Tribbled it out. And he tripled out and tripled out the clock. But at least he did make the first one, so we do have overtime. Okay. This is where LeBron completely loses.

me as a cry baby diva that he's always been he goes over to the bench and he won't sit with his teammates during the time out before overtime remember if you could have told lebron james before the game this will go to overtime would he not take that i think he would i don't know what they would 10 or 12 point underdogs you know like it's it's a miss series was yeah okay but they did have two chances to win the game and he put him there no but like before it was golden state like Gil going six and one. I'm saying that. George Hill could have hit both. He's a good free throw shooter. He didn't sit with the team. He didn't sit with team. He sat away from the team. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to associate with you guys. You don't think Jordan or Kobe might have responded the same way. Jordan would not have. Who knows? I don't know. I don't know. They would probably go chew out J.R. Smith on the bench.

They probably would have been in his face, but they would have said, okay. Yeah. You are fucking going to do this with me right now. We're going to do. You're going to help me. me win this overtime. They would try to scare him back in, scare him straight, as they say. You know, get him back where don't lose him because the team's looking at LeBron like, okay, you don't want to associate with us. We let you down. Okay, screw you. And LeBron goes out and pouts for the first three minutes of overtime and doesn't take a shot as they fall behind by seven and predictable. I think they lost by 10. Okay. Because LeBron, quit because he's like, you know, we had him. But he knew in the back of his mind, he should have taken the shot. If you have the guts and the balls and you're that guy, you take that

shot to win or lose the game, especially when you have a hot hand. If you want to tell me it's not my forte, you got me. But on that night, in that building, that had been his forte. So that's another, that's an epic fail to me because then they get swept. You know, they get swept. They They're probably still going to lose a series either way. Okay. I don't know that. A momental. If he's the goat.

If he's the goat, then the goat, if you can go one up on Golden State or Gold State. Yeah, that's, I don't know, man. But would you agree that's, that Warriors team's probably the best team of all time? 2017. KD. Steph. That of 96, 96 Bulls. I don't see how you can argue against the Warriors.

I can't argue against Michael on any. The 96 Bulls. Heck, I covered the 98 Bulls. I was in Chicago at that. in that year at the Chicago Tribune, they were really good. And I thought Larry Bird's 86 Celtics, they were basically invincible. They were just so loaded, so deep. But to your point, I'm not sure the chemistry was that great.

I never felt Kevin was very happy there. He never liked Steph and Steph. You know, Kevin wanted to be the man. And if you know, Dub Nation, Steph got raised. You know, he, they drafted him, and they raised him from baby, he and Clay both, up into Super Duper Star. And so, Kevin was never going to be more beloved in Dubnation than Steph. But you don't think he knew that going there?

No, he didn't know that. Because he just thought, how can you not know that? He just thought, I'm better, you know, I'm better than Steph Curry. He won two championships before he came there. He's got to know that. Do you think that's one of the, that might get the biggest stories in history is KD deciding to go to the Warriors? Like, was that, how shocked were you when you heard that?

I was not shocked, but I knew too much about what was going on between Kevin and Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City, again, where I'm from. But I used to have battles over this. I'm not a Russell Westbrook fan either, because he is a solo act stat machine who cares way more about what the stat sheet says at the end of the game than what the scoreboard says. And if you look at his path, wherever he's been, teams have taught. turned on him again and again. He just keeps going to another team and another team. And I don't know if they finally Denver tried him and failed with him last year. And I think he might be out. I think this might be the end of him. And he's not that old. But in Oklahoma City, he was obviously very gifted, as was Kevin. So I was on first take then on ESPN. And day after day, I started to go

after Russell Westbrook for taking more shots per game than my guy, Kevin Durant. And I was just a big Durant fan since he was at Texas and the one year in college. And I predicted he's going to win scoring titles. And the guys on my show just laughed at me like, that's beanpole. Like he looked like praying mantis. He was so skinny that it looked like he didn't have any man strength at all. Well, trust me, he does. And he did because he looks pretty much like he looked in college.

And I think he can play. And I think he can score. So the point was, I'm defending Kevin against Russell. And then the turning point of that was one night, Russell called over the reporters, I'm sorry, Kevin called over the reporters before a game in Oklahoma City. This is in the middle of the year and ripped me saying, I didn't know shit about basketball. Sorry, who said that? Kevin ripped me saying, I don't know shit about basketball for, ripping Russell for taking more shots than Kevin. Well, Kevin was just trying to be big brother to

Russ and team leader and sort of defending, you know, having the back of Russell and having the teams back against the guy on ESPN who's trying to tear us apart. Well, I'm not trying to tear you apart. I'm just trying to make you better because Russell Westbrook is like LeBron. He is a horrendous three-point shooter who never improved. Even this year, he's always at the very bottom of the league in three-point shooting. And LeBron fell for it at one point. And the whole team did. But Anthony Davis fell for it. And they campaigned, go get Russell Westbrook. And did you follow what happened when Russell became a Laker? Yeah. It was a disaster. Every time he went up to shoot, the whole Staples at that point. I mean, you can't deny him and KD. were

pretty good together. I think there's two young. They were young at the time. Mark Cuban, remember when Mark Cuban, there's that famous clip of him saying, Mark Cuban says, Kevin, that you're only a superstar and he's sitting next to Russ. And then he covers the mic and he says, he's an idiot, like defending Russ. So it seemed like they had a real brotherhood. So for that to go down that way, it just never made sense. Here's the point to your question. I know for a fact, this came from somebody very close to Kevin Durant. He finally decided, as he was entering his 10th year in the NBA, I will never, ever win a championship with that guy, Russell Westbrook, as my primary decision maker every

time down the floor. Because Russ dribbled the ball up, and Russell could decide it's your turn or my turn. And too often to me, and ultimately to KD, it was Russ's turn because he's just he's bull in China shop. You know, he's just like C-basket, attack basket. And it can be impressive because he was supremely athlete. Supremely, like unbelievable. But sometimes he had the basic 10 cent brain going where, wait a second. And then he figured

out the stat after Kevin was gone, he figured out, wait a second. If I drive like a wild man and at the last second I just leave the ball on the floor for one of my big so that they can dunk it, then the stats start adding up in this thing called assists. And then

if I get rebounds, which he is the greatest little offensive rebounder in the history of rebound or any rebounder, for that matter, then you have triple doubles. And he did something I thought I'd never see. He averaged a triple double, not just for one year. He did it for four times. Yeah. On Kais van Ostream recently, I think LeBron, he gave like a long speech at the end. And I think one of the things he said is like people that haven't been in those situations themselves have have no right To speak. Yo, you were tapped into the Kyn stream? No, I saw the quote from LeBron.

Yeah, I think so. I think he said people that have never been in that position don't pay attention to them and they don't have any right to speak on those situations. What's your, like, response to that? I know enough to know that I do my homework and I know his game very well. And he doesn't have to listen to me, nor do any of you guys have to listen to me. But I dare you to show me I'm wrong because I'm not. So I study it. I watch it closely. I talk to people who know lots of basketball. And I was blessed enough that I did get to know Michael Jordan. And I did get to know Phil Jackson. And I did get to know Jerry Krause who built those bulls. And I was in Dallas for a long time with really good coaches and really good players. And I just know what I'm talking about. And you can go other than your list of the top five all time.

I get, it's the old, it's like the Teddy Roosevelt quote, the old president who said, you know, I want to be the man in the arena. I don't want to be the guy up in the stands sitting and watching. And I get that. But if you want somebody who will speak the truth who's not involved, then I'm your man. I feel like if LeBron like wish you a happy birthday or showed you some love, you'd be a LeBron fan. No, I would. Why is so passionate about the hatred towards him? Go ahead with what he said.

But he was in Miami and was on, I think, Dan Levitart's radio show. And he said, this is way back, what was his first year there, 20, let's see, do you leave 2011, 12? I think it's right in there. Anyways, just when he first got to Miami. And he said, Skip is like my Howard Cosell to Muhammad Ali. Now, this is probably before all your time. Do you remember Howard Cosell at all? Nobody remember?

Nope, nope, nope. Boy, once upon a time, Howard, Will. was it in broadcasting, because he was a bit of a windbag, loudmouth, who had outrageous takes, but he was on Monday night football as the commentator for many, many years, and seemed to do every big sports event, World Series, big Muhammad Ali fights. So Howard had a little banter thing going with Ali. He would interview him before and after fights. and Howard

was pretty wacky and crazy but Muhammad got a kick out of him so he played the game with him they played along and they had good banter so LeBron was trying to compare himself to Ali which he's not in the same ballpark with Ali who was when I was growing up

he was my all-time favorite athlete times 100 and I don't like the Howard Cosell comparison but again LeBron is saying I get a kick out of it at that point. I don't know if he still gets a kick out of it, but I'm proud to say, I don't know him, you know, so I didn't, I don't sell out because I like him. I just tell

you the unvarnished truth about him. You guys have never had an interaction. No. If you had to sit down an interview with him, what's like the first question you'd ask them on? Why didn't you work on your free throws 22 years ago? That's what I would ask. I don't think I would open with that. That would be kind of an awkward opening question, but that would be one that I would definitely get to fairly quickly. I would like to know that because it's an unguarded shot from 15 feet, uncontested, and it's called a free throw because it's free. It's actually free

and it counts a whole point. And if you just keep making as Jordan did 84%, or as Larry Bird and Magic did 90%, the points just keep adding up. But to your point, both your points, despite that, despite being a 73% free-throw shooter, which is pathetic by his superstar stand, it's pathetic. And outrageously, he should be taken to task for that and no one ever brings it up except me. But to the point, he's the all-time leading score in the history of the National Basketball Association because he is the most durable human being who ever played any sport. I've never seen anything like it before. It's longevity.

He has lasted longer. We're to 23 years, 23 years. That's a long gap. And I just saw today, in USA Today, they did their preseason player ranking for the NBA. Top 10. LeBron was eighth on the list. And I don't have a problem with that because he is. And Luca was fourth on the list. Who's one? Joker. Oh, of course. If Luca is fourth, I'm fine with that. In fact, if you told me Luca was one, I'd say, oh, okay, okay, I get it. But if LeBron at age 40 is still in the top 10, which is extraordinary, it's impossible.

It's never happened. This is longevity. That doesn't make him the goat. I'm just saying no one has ever been able to stay healthy enough and spirited enough. You've got to still love it, man, because you still have to. to pay the price of flying all over the country, if not the world, to play basketball, and he's still got the fire to play basketball. Well, most guys, the fire burns out because there's just too much crap that goes along with it.

So I give him all the longevity power that he has, but those two guys combined, after they played together for about half a year, to lose the first round of the playoffs to the Timberwolves in five games after it was one-to-one after two games. So what happened in the last three games? Well, go look at it. If you have time, and I won't bore you at this, go look at the fourth quarter stats

from games three, four, and five. Just this past playoffs, first round against the Timberwolves, and tell me what you don't see. What you don't see is LeBron was awful, and so was Luca. They combined to be disastrous, where neither of them could make a shot or make anything happen. And all three of those games were highly winnable.

It was close or a point or two one way or the other going to the fourth quarter. And LeBron did what LeBron typically does, which is disappear in the fourth quarter. He did it three straight games. And Luca joined him, which surprised me because to me, Luca can be pretty clutch as we saw in the previous playoff run when he got the Mavericks to the finals. okay so it was we got all the way to year 22 and as great as lebron is he's still not showing up in the fourth quarter and if you look back at his lake run he's been disastrous in the fourth quarter do you remember the denver series you seem to really follow it closely do you remember going back two

years ago years ago yeah western conference finals Denver nuggets now they're on the way to winning a championship i give you this there were four straight games they lost all four in which they were right there going to the fourth quarter. And once again, LeBron, through the combined, the composite four quarters, shot seven of 23 from three. And they crumbled because he was so bad shooting the basketball. And then remember the close-out game at Staples, or maybe it was crypto by then.

But the close-out game, LeBron had two chances to tie the game in the final 10 seconds and missed the rim with both shots. Both shots. They were contested, but he missed the rim twice. And I'm like, that's horrendously bad. This is actually, this is going back now three years ago. So, LeBron has a long history of fourth quarter flameouts, which is why I have him ninth. Because all those other guys on my list, trust me, I want the ball in all their hands when it matters the most.

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Let's get back into the podcast. How much bigger do you think your career has gotten by having this take towards LeBron? I don't know. I honestly don't think that. No? You know what? You're probably right. If you step back from it, that became a thing for me. That became a mantra. I'm anti-Lebron. People think I hate LeBron. I don't hate him. In fact, I've always said he's actually, he's too nice a guy. I like him from a distance. And again, I don't know him. But I like the way he carries himself. I think he's a really good father.

I do. I think he did a really good job raising both the kids from what I can see from the outside in, especially Brani. Brani seems like a really good, level-headed kid who grew up with serious money. And as you know, that usually won't work. That's what we're talking about. I imagine how tough it would be to be LeBron Jameson. So much pressure. With the pressure and the money on top of it where you could say, screw this, I'm going to go do my other thing. You know, I don't need to try to follow my dad's footsteps, right? So, I like him a lot, but nice guys, there used to be an expression in baseball, nice guys finished last. Well, nice guys aren't clutch, you know, like, he's such a good guy that you've got to be a cold-blooded killer.

There's this thing in you, those champions, listen, I got to know Jordan, not a nice guy. Trust me, just as cold-blooded, when it came to winning basketball games, do not. get in his way, or he will slit your throat. That's who he was. And that, that trickled into off the court, too, where he just wasn't, I was around him. I know. And he actually liked me. But the point is, you're right about, has that become my stamp? You know, oh, he's a LeBron. I'm not a LeBron hater. I'm a truth teller. I just tell the truth about him. And is that one of my things? I like the Dallas Cowboys. That's been a big thing for me, but I grew up a cowboy fan. So it wasn't fake from the time I was 10 years old. I'm addicted to a fault to the Dallas Cowboys. So that became

one of my... What's a cool interaction you've had that you could tell us with MJ? I wrote about this in the Chicago Tribune. He hated Bulls management. He especially hated the general manager, Jerry Krause, who he thought was a fool. And I don't think Jerry Kraus was a fool, but Michael hated him because Michael always had to have somebody to hate. He, if you didn't deserve it, he still hated you. You know, he was going to make it up if he had to. I hate him. I hate him.

I'm going to get him. I'm going to make him pay. And because they would not keep his head coach Phil Jackson because they wanted him out, Jerry Reinstroft, the owner even recently told me, well, Phil just wanted out. And I never heard that, and I don't know that for a fact. I didn't get that. But if you watched the Last Dance documentary, it's 1998 Chicago. Again, I'm right in the middle of it.

Michael flat out quit, and he was at the back end of his prime. He was 35 years of age. He quit on principle because they wouldn't bring back Phil Jackson and wanted to replace him with a college coach named Tim Floyd from Iowa State. And Michael said, okay, watch this. I'm walking into the sunset, and he stayed gone for three years of his prime, from 35 to age 38. He didn't play basketball, which I thought was the biggest waste of talent in the history of all of sports.

So he had just retired. He's playing in a pro-am because he fashioned himself. He diluted himself into believing he could play pro-golf. And he's just, he's good, but not that. you know like he's he's good like i can occasionally be good but not that good so he's playing a pro am and he saw him and he waved me under the ropes and said come walk with me and so we're walking and he had his drive in a fairway bunker do you guys play golf yeah okay all right hits his drive 250-ish into the right fairway bunker and these are hard shots man because it's it's a par five

and he's got 300 left in the green. And he pulls out his three wood. And I'm like, damn, are you really going to do this? You're going to try this? Because I wouldn't try that out of the sand. I wouldn't think I could get the club underneath the golf ball and get it airborne out of the sand. Just hit the lip of the bunker? You're going to hit the worst.

Okay. It's the worst. I did it yesterday. I can save you sometimes. Lip of the bunker? Yeah. Sometimes it was like roll out to the fairway, but most of the time I'll just come back to me. I hate the thud, you know, you hear it.

I heard it yesterday. where it's off your club and you hear an immediate thud into the lip and it's just like excruciating. You know, it's great though when you're in the fairway bunker and like you're playing like a best ball or scramble and everyone thinks you're counted out. A nice fairway bunker shot when you hit the green and regulation is one of the greatest feelings. And can when you just nip the ball just perfectly out of the fairway bunker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Like three times. Yeah. I totally agree. So Michael takes three wood. And I said, how are you going to do that? And he said, I'm going to imagine this golf ball has Jerry Krause's face on it. So that was cool to me because in Chicago at that time, for me to write that was huge.

And then my other favorite Jordan was they're playing Indiana in the conference finals. Reggie Miller. It's a really good Indiana team that pushed them to the brink to the limit. Took seven games in Chicago. So we're at Indiana. and they let us in the media end, just as practice had ended. And Jordan is shooting free throws for money

with several teammates. And he has a blindfold on and he's shooting left-handed. I witness this, okay? And it was down to the last shot and he's going, again, did he have it down a little bit where he could peek or something? don't think so, because I saw a blindfold, and I saw him shoot left-handed when he's right-handed,

and he swished it, and all the guys watching just fell on the floor, like, that's impossible, and he did it to win however much, because he was big money better, you know, big, big gambling. And then the final Jordan that I also witnessed was, there was a kid whose name is going to escape me. I look it up, and then I can't remember it because he never did anything. He was from Oregon State, and the Bulls, after Jordan retired, took him at the bottom of the first round because obviously they had won the championship so they had the last pick i'll think of him in a little bit but on draft night he said my only regret is that mike retired and i can't take him one-on-one in practice and i read it like oh that's that's that's not a

it's not a good thing to say so they start the next year about a month into the season i happen to be at the burto center where they practiced and george shows up in sweats and i'm like what are you doing he said i have a score to sell i said really i said do you know tim he said no i never met him so he walks out on the floor introducing himself to the new coach of the bulls tim floyd and says i want him one-on-one right now and we're like seriously so he unzips and and the kids horrified he's he's he's sauceride like jordan has showed up like god has Come back from the dead, you know, this is, yeah. And he wants to play me, and I tried to keep scored.

They played, I think, to 20 by single baskets. Wherever you shot it, you just got one point. And he beat him 20 to 5, and it was devastating to watch because it felt like it went on for three hours. And that was, that's the guy who is by far the greatest player ever. That was cold-blooded killer. I'm going to come back and I'm not even in shape because I haven't been playing and I'm going to annihilate him in front. He wanted us to see it to shut that kid's mouth who should have been irrelevant to him way beneath his dignity. That's Michael, Jeffrey, Jordan that I got to know.

Damn, he just naturally loves to win, right? He's a psycho winner. You still hear that he loves to gamble with golf a lot, right? Yeah, and I'm sure he's lost more than he's won. That's my gut feeling on that because you think you guys know golf Yeah it can get scary out there it just it's the one game it's the hardest game on earth to me gambling with golf is the funest thing it's the finest thing yeah because anybody can get lucky in any moment and hit a three wood out of the

fairway bunker 250 yards and have a 15 foot eagle pot what's your game like what's your handicap I'm a 12 I'm right in there but you should do a full sign golf video with us I should Because if you catch me on the right day, if I make some pots, I can play. And some days, I can break 80 and I can not break 90. Yeah, we're kind of what I'm saying. I feel like you're kind of a headcase out there, though. I am a total head case. Okay, I got that high.

My wife will attest. She's sitting over here. She won't go with me. She used to ride with me occasionally, and she just said, I can't do this anymore. When did you start golf? I was 14. Oh, it's like, wow. Self-taught.

Got all kinds of issues. in my swing and I still try to fix them. I had my first lesson like six months ago and it was a nightmare. Like it messed me up way more. Yeah, lessons can fuck you up. I hate when they try to change your grip. Going to football, I mean, what do you think about Shador's situation right now in Cleveland and how you like went mute?

It's the biggest travesty in the history of the National Football League. I believe in Shadur. I believe he was raised to be a franchise quarterback in the National Football League. and he has a natural feel for playing the hardest position in sports and you can't teach that or coach it. He grew up around superstars and he just has a manner about him where he knows he can play. And what he did at Jackson State and then two years at Colorado was extraordinary

and against long odds. And he took a beating the last two years at Colorado and there's another spoiled rich kid quote unquote he's as tough as any college quarterback i ever saw he took beatings and kept jumping right up and completing another pass remember the hit at k u where the guy was low on him yes it was crazy it was just crazy he's just he's just he's deadly accurate he has poise and command and just feel for making it happen and he should have been the first overall pick cam ward struggling at tennessee I promise you, Shadour wouldn't be struggling at Tennessee the way Cam Ward is.

I liked Cam Ward. I love Shadur. So I fully expected he'd be the first pick or maybe the fourth pick or the fifth or sixth. There's somebody, like when the Giants passed him and after they trade. I thought they'd traded up for Shadur and they took Jackson Dart. God bless you. And Jackson Dart's pretty good. Shadur's really good. and the NFL decided to teach both son and father a lesson.

We don't do it the way you guys do it. We don't have DJs in the locker room before the game and at halftime as Colorado does. We don't drive three exotic cars before we even get drafted into this league. We don't want the highest paid college player ever, and we don't want arrogant and brazen and outspoken. the way you are should do or that's not how we do business up here so you think that was an NFL not decision he dropped to sixth fifth round yeah like that's i'm not that's what i'm saying yeah i mean that's pretty obvious i think that was i'm sure they wanted to try to make an example

out of them you know to i like the so the organization told all the teams i'm saying i don't know specifically about it's so fifth round he had his team interviews yeah they didn't go the way that he wanted them to go and the team start talking and the word spreads that you know he an attitude problem and then I think this was yeah making an example out of him I'm not saying there was a memo about that like a league wide memo it's just they're all in cahoots they all talk it's the good old boy network and they're like we're out we're out just don't don't don't don't and the word spread and once he dropped through the first round then they're like sheep think and it's like don't let's punish let him fall let him fall and

I know this league got the biggest kick out of him falling to a team that clearly he and Dion did not want originally, because you wouldn't want to be stuck in Cleveland if you could be the first pick in the draft. You don't want that. And for him to be stuck in Cleveland as the fourth string quarterback after they had taken Dylan Gabriel 50 slots higher, another quarterback from Oregon via Oklahoma, 50 slots higher, 50 than Shadur went early in the fifth round, and I'm still convinced the owner of the Brown stepped in, Jimmy Haslam, and just said, okay, that's enough. I want him. The coach hates him. The GM had no, no business. He wanted no part of Shadur Sanders. But the owner said, it'll be a good

publicity splash for our organization that is in dire need of some positive publicity. and yet he's stuck. I mean, they had Kenny Pickett, so they traded him, and so that cleared one spot. But my God, they went to camp with seven quarterbacks, and I'm like, they're just trying to shame him. And the shame was the NFL, that they should be so ashamed of themselves

because he can play, and if he ever gets his chance, God willing, he will seize it and make them all look like fools when he gets his shot and he just went through a situation where they finally said enough of the guy called Fluco, Joe Flacco. I know he's been great in the postseason, but in the regular season he's Flucco.

And so they try to go with him at age 40 and it's a disaster. Yeah. Can we say that Cleveland Browns is the worst organization out there? It's fucking weird. Do you think he's going to play this year? Once they demoted fluco, I thought, okay, does that maybe open the door because they're going to go with Dylan Gabriel

have a game in London? And, okay, you go with Dylan Gabriel for five games or six games, and surely you're going to lose almost all of them, if not all of them. And at some point, give Shadur four more. Give him the bottom of the schedule. Give him a chance to show you because he got his chance flukeishly to start the preseason in game number one. He got a shot when they all got hurt, nobody could go, and he balled out. You can say, oh, it's just the preseason. But you could see him on stage. If you give him a shot, he's going to seize his opportunity.

So I'm just ashamed of the league for this. And I'm hoping he gets somewhere because, see, they wouldn't even promote him to second team. They said Flacco's second team. What? Flacco second team? That's crazy. I know. It's embarrassing.

But they're a clown. show. And so Mn Chedur tried to clown the clown show when he was asking questions. And he went they said he was like a mime, but mimes don't mouth words. You know, he just

mouthed his answers without using his voice. Which was funny, but I hated it only for him because now he's giving a reason not to give him the juice. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Now the good old boy network is, see, that's what we don't want. Yeah. What do you think? So it would have been

better if he's just like, I respect the coach's decision. I support the team. James Swenson Rout. Give me a chance and I'll take it. I'll be ready when I get my chance. That's all you need to say at this point. Because at some point, you do have to play their game to get the chance. And then when you get your chance, you got to capitalize it. But Rex Ryan the other day on ESPN, it's been a few days back. But he said, he was criticizing Shador and said, you need to get your ass in the front row and study, you know, front row of the meeting rooms. Well, he does study. Like, that's good old boy perception of this kid, you know, with the DJ in the locker room and the exotic cars, and he's got the cyber truck, and he's, you know, that's, that's, that's the white guy view

of Shadur. That's dismissing him as he doesn't study. He doesn't care. He doesn't take this seriously enough. Yeah, he does. Just give him a chance and watch what starts happening. And so I wanted somebody to trade for him at the deadline because they were desperate for a quarterback and when he went mime or whatever you want to call that you know then it gives them an excuse to say well maybe maybe we shouldn't do this you know maybe this kid's just uncoachable or whatever you want to dismiss him as so I don't know I lost a lot of respect for the NFL on Shadour because inevitably somewhere somebody's going to give him a shot because this league is always desperate for a quarterback here or there and when he gets it you better be ready because he will

be fucking enough and then they chose bad bunny is the halftime performance too what's your take on that okay i don't follow his work enough i do think okay guys sucks eh what's that he sucks does he i don't like his music you don't like he's super successful i don't know enough to not he could probably steal any girl i ever date too but like i just don't like his music he's probably the biggest artist in the world he's huge oh wasn't he the most downloaded yeah he's massive okay i just don't like his music okay but it's all spanish right yeah i can't understand it okay just you know okay i i don't in uh what was it happy gilmore two i i did think he was was very did you watch it yeah more too yeah i thought he was good in that but that was

the first time i ever like focused on him because i had no choice because he's in the movie i'm watching but he kind of played the waiter caddy and I thought he was pretty good at it at that so that's you guys know way more about him or I think you do than I do going back to the NBA I do want to ask you

is Nicole Yokage no one ever talks about him as a top 10 player ever well like USA Today put him one so well no I mean his like all time of all time yeah yeah and I'm wondering why like this is why I stopped watching ESPN because one of the analysts said he's not a top 20 player of all time and it's just like

dude, why would I educate myself with your takes when you sound like a dumbass? That's fair. I do have a hard time with current players. Like, I need to make sure what their body of work becomes. But he's a three-time MVP. He's the most gifted big man we've ever seen all around. Because he's better at passing the basketball than a lot of point guards. For sure.

Like serious, pure point guards. And he can shoot the three ball. He can shoot the three ball. And we'll make big threes and big moments. Yeah. I don't disagree. So at some point, as he gets later in his career, I'm going to have to keep revisiting my top 10

because Durant's going to make a case for my top 10, as will, Joker, as will step. I don't have Steph in my top 10. And at some point, I have to accept their body of work as enough to qualify. So I just don't yet because they don't seem finished to me. Like Kevin keeps talking about me, he wants to play five more years. Heck, LeBron, I'm not going to be surprised if LeBron doesn't play at least two more years, at least. The Lakers don't want him.

The Lakers have said, we're done. Where would you like to see LeBron out? I think he would like to retire Laker, and he was miffed, obviously, according to his agent, that they would not extend him when they extended Luca, who's, what, 14 years younger? Would you have rather seen LeBron on a small market team before going to Lakers? like, would you rather see him in, like, uh, like in Houston or something? I remember there was rumblings about that before he went to LA. There was been rumblings with him about every city in America. Yeah. Well, the big market seems like New York, you know, L.A., but, you know, Houston wasn't such a big,

you know, would you have liked to see him, like, play for a team like that? No, not especially. But I would like to see him as a Nick. I just would, because you got to play the palace, you know, you got to play the garden. You got, you got to do that. And I'd like to see a year of that at Who's one player you would have liked to see LeBron play with? Play with? Yeah, like, out of like any player in NBA history, you think he would do well with on a team. Well, Jordan. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, because Jordan could teach him a lot. Jordan could show him the way. He could feast off Jordan's energy, you know, his drive. LeBron doesn't have that. He doesn't have killer in him. And it would be interesting to see if that would rub off on. him but what are the odds you know like that's just crazy yeah yeah what did you make of him confronting stephen a at the lakers game and are you afraid are you afraid to go to the lakers

game now i'm seriously not and i would be i would welcome him to confront me because i would give it right back to him but uh i thought it was bush league on lebron's part because he ambushed him in a there was a dead ball situation i think the game was going to on, right? It wasn't at halftime. I think it was a dead ball where there's just a moment pause in the action, and he went over and said, keep my son's name out of your mouth or something did that. Yeah. And it was an ambush, a hit and run, like LeBron's chase down block in that game seven we talked about at Oracle when Kyrie made the last shot, and he had the historical chase down. And I said, well, that's an ambush block, right? That's a blindside ambush where he's

coming full speed. Wait, so you're taking that away from him? Yeah. That's the best block in history. Seriously? Yeah, 100% with what was going on in the game. Okay, but think about this. Wait, how can you argue that? That's probably the best defensive NBA play of I've ever seen.

The chase on block? Allow me to argue that. Please. Okay, come on, man. That was insane. Especially the greatest play of ever seems. Yeah. So what happens on the fly?

I getada has a breakaway and he's thinking he's going to dunk it. Because if he's going to dunk it, LeBron's not going to block it. LeBron's going to have to foul him if he dunks it. And at the last second, J.R. Smith cuts across the path of Iguada. Go look at the plate. Tell me I'm wrong about this. Cuts across the path. And Igadala has to hesitate and go half step for a second and recalibrate.

Oh, wait a second. I'm out of step now. So I can't dunk it. I'm going to have to lay it up. If J.R. Smith doesn't cut across and a. this LeBron by slowing down Eagadal. Well, no, go look at it. No, this is the God's truth.

I'm telling you the God's, but he didn't give up on the play. He came across the court. He saved the game. It doesn't matter what else happened. A man's block. Yeah, it happened, though. A man's block is face to face, where you just go up and make somebody eat the basketball, right?

Did he see LeBron? Did he see him come? No. But that's why it's such a great play. He came across the court. It's a chase down ambush. It's a blindside ambush. like okay you want that

you're gonna say that's the greatest block ever I give you what was going on in the game sure you guys are just like you guys are just wide-eyed blind witnesses I get you're saying you're saying like you want to see a guy stop somebody at the rim like your boy TiaR wait wait didn't Braun stop Tiago splitter at the rim yeah and you love Tiago and he stuffed his ass at the rim

I jump higher than Tiago splitter I do I do he's a big guy he stuffed his ass at the rim 6-11 and can't jump a lick he can't jump up higher than a 4 Are you guys like LeBron? Psycho? We love LeBron. We grew up with him like you grew up with Jordan.

Okay. Yeah. Do you stalk him or do you? It seems like you do. No, I watch basketball. Does he own real estate in your head, you think? A little bit. Oh, none.

I own in his head, right? Yeah, you might actually. I do. Yeah. That's hilarious. So I educated you finally. You learned something. What do you like about doing your podcast now versus

like being on ESPN, business-wise? I did get back into the flow about a month ago. I'm doing a show with Gilbert Arenas on Underdog called Arena Gridiron, and Gil's obviously a three-time NBA All-Star who wants to get into the NFL business. And we have a number of ex-player starting with my guy, Akeed Talib. And I'm back into the flow of doing what I always. did. It's NFL-driven arena gridiron. We're on YouTube, if you would allow me a quick plug. Of course. On the arena YouTube channel. And it has taken off. Should knock on some wood here

somewhere. And I'm back into the debate mode against ex-players who did play the game that I did not play. And I live for that. I relish it. I feed off that. Because the two games I know are the NBA and the NFL. And I am re-energized with them in a way that's very different from my own podcast. That on my own podcast, it's me flying solo and it's done very well. But I found that I do feed off someone else. This, you know, I love you guys coming hard back at me. And if you'll be okay with me, coming hard back with you. It's fun. I love it. It's what guys do. It's what everybody does. And so the only thing I've missed in my podcast is just, I fly solo. Occasionally I do interviews. And I love that. And I've branched out. And I've done a number of interviews with people I know well, like Ice Cube and Billy Bob Thorough. So I do some entertainment interviews.

And I'm good at that. I like that. And I like to delve into people's psyches just one on one. But I have missed this dynamic. And so I am loving this dynamic back on Arena Gridiron. That's awesome. Yeah. A lot of these athletes, like Jeff Teague talking about the stories you never get to hear.

I got to watch more Gilbert. But Jeff Teague's been a great job. He was doing a great job. So he is. Yeah. I agree. What was your, like, most intense moment, you think, being on ESPN? And Stephen A and I used to get into it.

Ooh. I guess it would be my Richard Sherman moment. And I wound up working with Richard Sherman, but as a ways back, I think, 2012, we were doing. Yeah, we saw that clip, did you see it? See it earlier, yeah. Wait, what, where he called, where he says it's better than you? Yeah, it's classic. He's not, but whatever.

So, here's a quick, funny underside of that story. So Stephen A and I are on first take in the morning's Eastern time from 10 to noon. And it's doing well. We had some issues. Some people got suspended. I didn't, but some people did. And we were kind of on probation for a while. And we got through our probation successfully.

and then they said, okay, let's try you guys out, audition you for an afternoon show because Stephen A hated getting up in the morning. He was always up late at games, so he said, we got to do this because maybe we can get in the afternoon block as a half hour or hour show as opposed to two hours. Okay, I'm with you. I'll try. Let's try this. So we were on a two-month probation period in the afternoon, where we were just audition.

and we do a half hour a day on top of the two hours in the morning. We'd go eat lunch and throw together another rundown and just do a half hour. We are to our second to last show. We're almost home and we're getting rave reviews up on the fifth floor from management for our afternoon show. And we're thinking, we got this. Richard Sherman's people call and say he would love to be on the afternoon show. Would you like him? Well, sure. It's short. It's only like 22 minutes of television with the commercials. But if we could have him off the top of the show, we could take him for a segment and do, you know, 10-ish minutes. And fine. Okay, let's do this. And Richard's people told my producer, no controversy. He'd been involved in several controversy. He went after Tom Brady in a game they won up in Seattle. And you like that bro. I forget, whatever.

No, you mad, bro. That was the question. He asked Tom, are you mad, bro? And he was needling Tom through the whole game. Whatever. And yet the people told me, don't, he don't want to be challenged. Just let him talk ball. Offseason, this is in March, you know, like it's not even in the season.

Fine. And so he's sitting down to get mic'd up. And we come on live, and I'm looking at the monitor thinking, wait a second. He's not ready. and my producer says in my ear, vamp, you know, like, do something, because we're going to go right to Richard. We're in tight TV blocks. You know, this is all different. You know, we have to worry about. It's not live. It's a 30 minutes slot, wasn't it? I think it was from 2.30 to 3.30 Eastern time. Okay. So, Richard's, he's got his earpiece in, but they're putting the rest of the gear on,

and they come to me, and I don't know what possessed me, but I said, I'm looking forward to talking to Richard Sherman, I think he's about to arrive, but he's still not better than Dorel Revis, because he, at that point, Revis was just, I don't know if you guys remembered Derell Revis. Revis was locked down. You know, like he was, he was, he was, he was a man in Champ Bailey. That you could have made that case at that moment. Well, Richard hears this in his ear. He's still, he's not mic'd up. And then he sits down and our moderator asking the first tame, you know, lame question. You know, it's just some off-season football question, and he attacks me.

Now, think about the hot seat I'm sitting on, because if I engage too hard with him and we have an incident, even though it became an incident thanks to him, but if I respond in kind to him at that point, and it blows up and becomes an ugly, so to speak, black eye for the network, then we're going to lose our shot at having an afternoon show. We're going to be back on probation. So, for me, I tried to stay above the fray and kind of laugh along with it, but still go back at him. And it was hard because I was biting my tongue. And Stephen A wasn't even in studio.

He was remote. And he sort of went quiet because I think he was horrified. His face. His face was hilarious. Yeah. Huh? And I kept waiting. I was hoping Stephen A. saved me. You know, like, jump in and you don't have to defend me, but maybe defuse or whatever you could do. You seem like you held yourself. You contained your temper. I just tried to hang right in and be rational and reasonable. And I tried to explain football-wise that I don't think he's the best because he's got the two best safeties in pro football are behind him and the Legion of Boom. And he plays a lot of what's just cover two where he's got his little area to cover. And he doesn't travel with receivers the way Revis does where you just, you've got him, you got their best receiver, and wherever he lines up, you go with him.

Like Richard just stays where he stayed. But Richard was really good. And I worked with him at Fox two years ago. So I got to know him and we went through this whole thing and laughed it off. but he heard Revis is better than me and if you know Richard he is hot-tempered you know like he just explodes and he exploded on live TV I also think he was kind of on a now

I think I told him this on the air like you're on a national campaign to make yourself a thing you know you're trying to speak yourself into existence so I thought maybe he was challenging me the big guy I'm going to go after Skip Bayliss to create more of a name for himself. And there may have been some of that going on. And then Richard's performance carried him after a while, and he's really good. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. He is that good.

What did that moment teach you when you're alive and he catches you off guard like that? Remember, my mind's flying a thousand miles an hour because Stephen A wants the afternoon slot. And so now I have to recalibrate, how do I do this? How do I respond without provoking craziness? Because we're live now. This is not live to tape. This is live to live. This is explosive because it's going to go out.

And remember, this is Disney-owned, ABC, ESPN. And there'd be potential for a curse word, an F-bomb to fly. Not for me, but if I keep pushing back. Because Richard, I know him. he is volatile. He's had some other incidents in his personal life, off the field life, that have been volatile. And I don't know exactly what I'm dealing with at that point because I didn't know him. So I'm tiptoeing, but I'm not backing up.

I'm tiptoeing forward and trying to hang in with him and not let him just run over me without provoking. And the funny part was of all the things I did in how many years was I there? I'll see, 2004 to 16, 12 years, I was there for 12 years. In all the things I ever did, I got more kudos from the bosses on the fifth floor over that than anything I ever did because I held my own without losing my temper. That's how they, you know, congratulated me. Yeah. So, whatever.

And we still didn't get the afternoon show after all that. I think this was awesome. All right, it was awesome. You guys will rock me out. We'll put the new show link at the top of the description. Make sure everyone's ghost checks it out. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, bro.

Thanks for us. Thank you. It's awesome. Truly enjoyed it. Thank you. Skip Bayless.