FULL SEND PODCAST - Stephen A. Smith x Nelk Boys | Ep. 74

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Stephen A. Smith on Lebron's Legacy, Final Moments with Kobe and His Super Bowl Predictions Presented by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. Find Happy Dad near you http://happydad.com/find (21+ only). Video is available on http://youtube.com/fullsendpodcast/videos. Follow Nelk Boys on Instagram http://instagram.com/nelkboys. Part of the Shots Podcast Network (shots.com). You can listen to the audio version of this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & anywhere you listen to podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm doing this on a championship Sunday. I know, right? I'm already missing the game. We were thinking to pull up the game, like, as we're doing this, bud. What I was doing this? I'm ready. How you doing, Stephen A? I'm good, man.

It's good. Just got off the plane, came straight here. From where? New York. Nice. Yeah. Where'd you get that jacket at? Huh?

It's a nice jacket. It's on for it. Okay. I like it. Various style, stuff like that. Shoot, I ain't the most attractive brother in the world. I got to help myself as well. as much as I can.

You know what I'm saying? If you don't have the looks, at least have some style, do something, like, you know what I'm saying? Try. Should we get into it? Yeah, let's do it. We got Stephen A. Smith. This is a big, championship weekend, man.

I know. Let's do this. I know. We don't want to hold you up too long because we've got two big football games. You can keep me. Let's just go. Let's just go. Let's just go.

You know? We got to get right into the Lakers Celtics last night. They're recording this now? Yes. We just go for it. Go ahead, man. I mean, I was upset this morning. I know they were upset seeing LeBron not get that call.

His bullshit. He definitely got fouled. It definitely should have been a foul call. The league has publicly acknowledged that the officials missed the call. We understand that. But in the same breath, they walked into the game, three games under 500 with 26 losses in 49 games. So let's pump the brakes just a little bit.

Yeah, they got a bad call. Yeah, it was a wrong call. Yes, they should have won the game. All of that's true. It happens. But how do they miss that with LeBron? James. I just told you. I said they made a mistake. They messed up. No question about it. And you would think that with him being the superstar that he is, you're going to get a benefit of the doubt.

Usually it works in reverse. What usually happens is that somebody like him gets a call he doesn't deserve. Sure. But it worked in reverse last night. It's really unfortunate. I don't like the way the officials have been officiating the game. I think that too much, too much emphasis has been placed on a lot of player behavior and stuff like that. And if you really want to be appalled about it, how about the fact that he got teed up? It was a technical foul that was granted to the Boston Celtics because of all of his histrionics when he was calling for the foul

and they didn't get the call. So in the overtime, they were appoint up because they called the tech on them. So you made a bad call, you missed it. You cost them the game and on top of it all you gave him a tech. All of that was wrong. Do you think there's anything that should be done, like any punishment, maybe to the refs

for missing stuff like that? That's for the league officer to determine. I think they look at these referees, and sometimes the referees do get punishment. They don't get the plum assignments that you would expect them to get. There's been turnover within the officiating crew throughout the years. The same officials aren't always there. So there's punishments. It's just that we don't talk about them because they don't make news.

I mean, really, really think about it. If you sat here today, okay, and a referee lost his job and who's reassigned to the G League or something like that, how much more than 60 seconds would you spend on the story? Nobody cares. True. So at the end of the day, that's what matters. That's awesome. How do you feel about the whole LeBron James about to pass Kareem?

Does that, like him passing Kareem, is that going to put him over the top of the, like, the MJ conversation? Not for me. It'll never have it for me. I've always made that very, very clear. I think that LeBron James is on the Mount Rushmore basketball. I think he's one of the top two players that have ever played this game. He does not have the resume of Karima of Dujabar.

He does not have the resume of Bill Russell, but he's still number two all time. The reason that I don't put him number one is because there was too many times earlier in his career where he didn't have that assassin's mentality. So 2011 is where you're talking about. Well, that wasn't the only one, but I'm just saying that was an example. There were times we look at Jordan and we look, first of all, he's 6 and 0 in NBA finals. He still has more championships than LeBron James, even though LeBron James has been to more conference. championship finals appearances. That's number one. Number two, the game is considerably softer now than it was in the 80s and the 90s because of the way that's not the players'

fault. It's the way the officials call the game mandated by the league. Hand checking has been eradicated, you know, putting the elbows in the back, all of this other stuff, being physical, having to endure the path of resistance that MJ had to endure on that climb to the top. LeBron has not had to go through that. That's not his fault. The athletes today, one would easily argue are greater. The game is much, much faster. We get all of that. But the stiffness of competition when you look at it is just different today than it was back then,

not to mention the fact that the quality of competition that you're going up against, the way the game was called, the physicality, the tactics that were employed to derail somebody who was an elite player and an elite athlete no longer exists. you combine all of that with the fact that you never looked at MJ and said in a championship series he didn't get it done not one time not one time but you can't say like the accolades though like that's like I mean four rings the amount of conference championships and then he passes Kareem as a guy that's like a couple of things when it comes to basketball with all due respect I can say what I want to say oh yeah I can see you here I know because I'm going to tell you right now I covered these dudes I saw it with my own two eyes and there's and and not to say when you're watching it on television that you don't see a lot because you do but when you see stuff up close and when you talk to the players it's a different yeah i can't agree it's a different animal and and listen everybody universally respects lebron yeah one of the greatest ever but they feared jordan bro feared okay yeah i can't argue with that they

was scared and then when you think about it also throughout lebron's tenure there has always been been a debate as to who was his peer. Was it Kobe or, you know, other guys, you know, Kevin Durant, stuff like that? And don't get me wrong. I think he eclipsed that. I think he answered the call. But there was always the question. Tell me one time in MJ's career when it was even a question.

I'm too young to answer that question. But I think that's where like the debate kind of goes because you see more. I respect the debate, but I think the debate is for folks with youth, folks who are a little bit older. Yeah. Yeah. Who watched MJ. Yeah. And watch LeBron. No. You're right. Yeah. Beyond the shadow of a doubt. And that that's what it was. And so I also think this, they've asked me about Kobe. How come Kobe isn't in that conversation? He's got more chips than LeBron James. And I said, my response was Kobe's not even number one in his position. And we all. Not at all. You got to think about MVP's and like how many he's won. No. No. No. I'm just.

I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about just watching the game with the eye test. As great and as phenomenal as Kobe was, nobody ever said he's superior to MJ, and they played identical positions and had an identical style of play. LeBron James is unquestionably the greatest smartphone who's ever played the game.

Ever. That's better than Bird. That's better than everybody. Better than everybody. But, again, when you compare him to MJ, there's nuances that you take into consideration and all I can tell y'all is go back and talk to the players that went up against them they feared mj nobody feared lebron they respect them profound respect for him but nobody feared them you walked into

an arena and he was like damn i got to deal with this dude i want no parts of him yeah you were so scared at mj you were depressed the night before thinking about going up against that brother it was just a different level yeah yeah you've seen it in response to that real quick how come you think it's always because You watch both players, right? Why is it always talked about the physicality aspect, but they don't focus on, like, today's game, there's obviously more talent. Well, you know what? That's a good question.

I don't know why they don't focus on today being about it, being superior talent. I think, I'm guessing. Because in fairness to you, I've never even asked that question to anybody else, and I should have. I would surmise that the reason why people do that is because it's superior, it's the today's athletes are, you can't get away from the fact that they're helped tremendously by the way the game is called. Let me give you an example. I believe that Steph Curry is the greatest shooter God ever created. I think, yeah. Okay. I don't think that's an argument.

But I'm just saying, we see him whatever. So let me share a conversation with you that I had with Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas said to me one time, and he loved Steph Curry and thinks, that Steph Curry is the greatest shooter ever, blah, blah, blah. He said if he was playing in our era, he would not have averaged more than 18 points a game. Okay. And I said, how could you- That's blasphemous, yeah.

No, don't say, listen to the answer, bro. There's a reason this two-time champion said that. Yeah. The rules would have allowed them to rest on his shoulder and to be physical with him in such a way that he wouldn't have been able to get the shot off. Okay. The rules would have allowed that when he came through the paint, we were going to make him feel us.

And he wasn't going to be in any condition to run around as much as he can. Yeah, the way you're explaining it's, yeah. Now, if you remember the first few years, Steph Curry was in the league, what was his issue? He had ankle problems. Remember, they had to work through that. It was like four or five years. His fourth, fifth year in the league, there were legitimate questions as to how, long with his career last because he kept getting these ankle injuries. Well, those old school

guys said, well, what do you think we would have done to that? You'd think we would have just let him run by us? They said, we'd have been tripping him. We'd have been doing everything. He would have felt knees. He would have felt elbows. We would have tripped him. We would have got physical with him. And we would have gotten away with it because of the way the game was called and what was allowed. So when you hear that, all of a sudden, now you have to think, and you have to look at dudes in different light. When you look at a guy, Eddie Johnson does Sirius XM radio, you know, in the afternoon on NBA radio. He was averaging like 17, 18 points a night, and people revere him. Why? Because of his toughness.

You look at guys like Oakley. Remember the old days with Maurice Lucas and people like that, they were enforcers. Who's an enforcer now? There's no such thing. It's not allowed. Right. You look at guys like, you know, bird coming up. You looked at Dr. Jay and it's like, wait a minute, the physicality that existed,

what they would try to do to derail you physically and what you were able to overcome to showcase your greatness, that is what they're talking about. So when they bring stuff like that up, that's what I'm saying, okay, it makes sense now. I think, too, going off that, Steph Curry, like, in that sense, he's probably not going to play as confident mentally if he knows he's going to, it's a more physical game. I think nowadays he's probably pretty confident. He's going to get the call. He's protected. When they, somebody's shooting, right? You ever see a shooter and sometimes they just run at you and they act like they're going to hit you and your lower body or something like that. Don't make you flinch, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Guys in today's game followed through with no problem because it's so rare that that happens. guys back in the day were flinching a heartbeat

and wouldn't follow through because they knew they were going to get hit. Yeah. So it's like, it's literally, but it's almost like in football, a wide receiver going over the middle and you're waiting for a Micah Parsons in today's game or Ronnie Lott back in the day,

whatever, Jack Tatum back in the day who paralyzed Darryl Stingley, God rest of the soul, stuff like that. When you see guys and you know they're in, tensions are to hurt you. They are out there to do nothing else but to punish you. All of a sudden, you're at receiving, now you got alligator on. You're scared because you know you're going to get popped.

That's the conditions under which those NBA players had to play to a lesser degree. And so when they bring that up and they say, don't talk to us about toughness, the best way they can bring it, you know, give you some clue as to what they're thinking is when they say, Well, if Jordan was playing the day, he'd average 60. Why are they talking about that? The athletes are better. They're talking about the way the game is called and how soft it is compared to how it was once called. That's why they think he could average 60 because you're not allowed to do so much.

You can't hand check. You can't grab. You can't body them up. You can't impede their progress. You got to give them a safe place to land once they elevate and launch. They got to come down with a safe place to land. what asked the foul all of that they said if Jordan had that available to him if most of the players back in the day had that that was scorers had that available to them they'd be exponentially

better I never talk about it that way like if Jordan got the calls today they never say that but they did they talk well they say it to me yeah sure so Gordon says it to me I want to ask you because you're obviously very active on social media do you pay attention to like the whole lebron like la cap stuff no I'm I'm active on social media from the standpoint that the work that I do I make sure it's not just put out on ESPN. You don't see the little cap stuff? I don't pay no attention. Okay.

No, come on, man. People say LeBron, like, just lies. He lies about a lot of things. Like, it's like white lies, like a lot of like. No, come on, man. He's saying, too, there's a, there's a, there's a, uh, why is it? Bro, do you, uh, how old are you, man? I'm 21.

You have any idea how old I am? Not, I've been watching for years, but. I'm 55, bro. Yeah, but I got. And you're a funny guy, so I would think you like it. But I do a lot of things. It's not beyond the world of comprehension that I miss some of this stuff. I mean, I have people that might tell me some things.

She tells me stuff. She calls me about my own business. I'm like, really? That happened? When did I do that? Okay. Do you know what they're saying about you? No, I didn't see it.

I, like they, you know, my team alerts me, my assistant over there, my security over there. No, stay alert. I really don't know. I really don't know. Okay, let's see this. Have you seen the clip of LeBron walking in? with like he's on the first page of every book when he walks in and they always capture that.

I swear to you. Come on, man. I swear to you. I've never seen it. In response to that, you don't think that now that you're covering and being more involved in social media, it's not important to be more on like that side of things at all.

You only want to cover just what happens in the game. It's not that. It's not a matter of me compartmentalizing and saying I don't want to cover something or anything like that. I'm literally working throughout the day. Yeah. So I got stuff. to do and people will alert me to something that's percolating and then I say okay let me take a

look at it if I have time but it's just like I used to be at a I would tell you before my mother passed away in 2017 God rest of so I was at an average of 125 NBA games wow yeah wow easy right I was always at the games what has happened is damn it got me doing a lot of shows Yeah. So I'm stuck in studio because one of the reasons that I've had the relationships that I've had with players and NBA and professional football personnel and stuff like that throughout the years, because they saw me at the games. I was the type of person that I'd go to a football game. I'd go there just to be there pregame. See some of the players, coaches, you know what I, you know, you want to, you want to holl at me later, just call me later, I catch you later, whatever. Or they'd be like, yo, Steve, make sure you meet us here after the spot after the game. That's all. I'd go there. I'd stay there for a half or whatever.

I'd go home. This is, I mean, you know, or I'd go to a game really late or leave the game really late or whatever the case may be. I'm constantly, constantly on a move. What has happened is that ESPN's got to be doing so many damn shows that I'm in studio. And so because I'm in studio, I can't get to the games away. And then when you're doing content, okay, well, I did this on linear television, but I have social media platforms to post my work.

And if I have a few minutes, I might look online and I might comment about something here and it just to show people, yo, listen, I'm trying to pay attention. I'm busy, but I'm acting. You know, I got other stuff to do. But I don't have time to be following stuff like that. You got to tell me because I don't know. Do you know the other day, some blue, not the blue check, but the blue tag on Twitter or whatever, that means that the story's false, something like that, some blue.

I don't know what the hell it is. I haven't seen that paper those now. Do you know I just found out about that three days ago? I didn't. You're telling me. I had no clue. You knew before us the thing. I don't even know what that is.

I don't know. Somebody at ESPN told me this three days ago. I don't pay attention to that kind of stuff, guys. I really don't. But that's that kind of stuff that we were talking about with the La Capsop. That's the stuff that ESPN and Sports Center are posting every day. So? But I'm saying like Darius Garland might go for 35.

You're not even seeing that. You're seeing. I saw that he went for 35. In terms of how ESPN utilized. I don't know that. Yeah. Like, like, I'm producing content for ESPN, so I'm not paying attention to some other things

that they might do from time to time. They alert me. I have access to it if I want to. Right. But do I see it without being alerted? No, because I ain't looking for it. But what I'm saying, do you think that the more culture

and that kind of social media stuff is kind of outshining what's actually happening on the court sometimes? Like with players, you might not even... I guess that's possible, but ultimately it comes back to the person producing content. Okay.

And Darius Garland wouldn't matter if he wasn't in an NBA uniform, an NBA uniform wreak in havoc alongside Donovan Mitchell. See, the reality of the situation is that you're talking about ancillary things that are in addition to his great play on the court. I'm the person that's looking at his great play on the court. Got it. I'm not focused on all the storylines and stuff like that. I might have been like when Tristan, you know, hooked up with Chloe, Kardashian,

I might have been the last, no. I'm looking at the fact that Demi, he's on the court, he needs to grab some rebounds. What's going on here? I need him to do this. I need him to do that. I'm not saying that I don't know. I'm saying that I'm late to the party on that stuff. Maybe that's a cause and effect, though, thing.

It doesn't involve my job. Like what Tristan's doing off the court. I'm not denying that. But what I'm saying is that for me, but what I do, that doesn't affect me. Because when y'all are looking at me on television or listen. listening to me on radio, whatever the case may be, it's based on their level of production with what they do. You see what I'm saying? Ain't nobody coming to me looking for me to comment about what's going on outside of that? 100%. So that's, I'm like, I'm giving the audience,

what the audience expects from me. Well, damn it, this dude is playing sorry. What's Stephen A got to say? Why he think this dude playing like that? Why is he looking like that? That's what you're looking for for me. You ain't looking for me to, oh, Tristan hooked up with Chloe. You ever regret about that? They should come to you for that to see your reaction. Well, I, I would refrain from commenting about Katz's personal life because that's just not my style. And not only that, I'm not going to, you call it chauvinistic or what do you want,

but there's just certain things that's just man codes. You know, it's like it involves your relationship with somebody else. It ain't none of my damn business. You know, now, if you play like garbage, what I'm going to go is like this. And if I saw you with it, if I saw you. you hanging out one, two in the morning and you play like trash, then I'll be like this.

Man, what was you doing last? But that's all. It would be a clue like to let you, it'd be like letting him know. Look, I know why the hell you messed up last night. Now, I ain't going to say it, but I know why your ass plays to play like that. Give him the side of that. That's my way. You know, sometimes

because you've got to do it subliminally if you're not writing their face. So sometimes I give them the side eye, like, what the hell what the hell were you doing last night? Because they know I know. Sure. Like if I say, if I say something like that. Yeah. They'll be like, damn that damn Steve and I'm sorry ass, he saw me. They love you, but they hate you.

They probably won't do it again, though, after you give them the side eye. Yeah, this is love hate because of that. Yeah, yeah. But they know I would never say anything. Of course. It's just that I would be, it would be my way of letting them know. I know why the hell you look like that. But you ain't going to snitch though.

I know that. Yeah. Has there ever been a time when a player's gotten like really pissed at you for like something you said? Oh, plenty of times. but it's always involved in the sport. There's no one, no one that will ever say Stephen A revealed my personal stuff. I don't roll out.

But is there ever a story of someone that like you saw them out after you made a comment or anything like that? Like they've tried to press you. Oh, yeah, plenty of times. I mean, Alan Overson and I didn't speak for eight months. Glenn Big Doggerson and I got into it after Randy years, got five many years ago.

You know, DeMarcus' cousin. didn't like me too much. But there's other players. LeBron, D. Wade, Draymond, various others. Kobe is spelled, oh God, Kobe, Chris Paul. Kobe and Chris Paul were my nightmares.

But all of those players that I mentioned, Westbrook, all of them, they approached me like men, told me what they felt and why. I gave them my position. If I thought they were, they were right about something, I'd go in the end, correct myself. I've always loved that.

If I thought they were wrong, I stood bad. It's just that simple. And shoot, I'm trying to think. But yeah, that was about it. But they come up to me and they express their point of view. And once they do that, I'm good with it. I always have been. Yeah, I've always loved that about you, man.

Like, you've always, it's about sports. Like, it's never outside. Like, you even mentioned, like, the Chloe Kardashian. like this is none of your damn business none of your business i've seen i've seen an interview with you and lebron as well like a long time ago it was i think it was like 2005 now it's about 2008 2009 yeah it was like around that time but i remember he was like very up and coming in the league and stuff but i've always like wondered like how was it like have you seen lebron have you like you know said with sub timness oh yeah i've always wanted to see that we did that last

season too he came up to me and gave me a hug when we were at the game in uh in la in the whole bit i mean we don't talk enough like that, but it's respect. He knows I got a job to do. He knows I'm not going to kiss his ass. I know he's got a job to do. I know he ain't going to kiss my ass. And that's just the way it's going to be.

You know, and so, I mean, listen, man, respect is given. This man is one of the greatest ever. D. Wade is a Hall of Famer who I love dearly. Kobe and Chris Paul, like I said, scared to live in hell out of me because when they had a problem, this is what I so much respected about them. The others...

approached me when they saw me. No, no, CP3. Kobe, they looked for me. Pick up your goddamn. I know we did not just hear you say that shit you just said. Call me. You know what I'm saying? You get like a text?

No, no, that's after I didn't answer their call. So do you have to be? Kobe called me one time I was on the air. Pick up the phone, motherfucker. Don't try to hide. Get your ass on that phone right now. Call me back. That's some bullshit you just said.

You know, I was like, oh. Did you call them back? Of course I did. And then how to go from there? There's no athlete that I've ever avoided. No coach, no executive, nothing. It's my responsibility in the chair that I sit in to embrace anybody who reaches out to me. I don't care who it is.

I don't care if you hate me. If you call me, I have to call you back if I talked about you because I made you news. And so I don't have the luxury of being able to run from anybody so I never think about running. Do other analysts, is that like a common thing? I wouldn't say it's common, but I don't. I don't know what their tactics or techniques are because I don't pay attention to them. They are who they are. I'm Stephen Ness.

You're very in your lane, man. It's awesome to, like, hear how you speak and stuff. I want to, no, honestly speaking, like, he just doesn't even talk about, like, any, like, it's his business and everything. But I wanted to know, do you ever regret, like, past takes that you, like, had on certain athletes? I'm quite sure. Um, you know, listen, man, I didn't like that Randy Ayers got fired and I felt that Big Dog

Robinson did it wrong when he was with the 76ers. But how I, how I handled that story was immature. It bordered on unprofessional at one point. There was no calls for it whatsoever. And ultimately, I'm no one sitting in my chair, not Big Dog Robinson. And it was my responsibility to conduct myself more professionally. I wasn't unprofessional, but that doesn't mean I could not have been better. And then I never forget I was in Houston and I saw his son. and I walked right up to his son and I told the son that situation with me and your dad that's my fault not your dad your dad didn't do anything wrong it doesn't matter how I felt it doesn't matter what legitimate argument I can get I wanted to hold no responsibility whatsoever for a son to be in the league potentially worrying about how I was going to cover him because of whatever feelings he thought I may have had about his father based off of what I expressed. I said, nah, the hell with all of that.

It don't matter how I felt about what I thought Big Red Big Dog did. At the end of the day, I'm wrong. It's my responsibility. And I'm not going to have this kid walking around there thinking that I feel that way about his dad. So I walked up to my life, I was wrong. And if I see your father, I tell him to his face, I was wrong. And we ain't going to do that no more. I said, whatever beef we had, squashed, is done.

You know, that was one incident. You know, you sit up there and you take a multitude of takes, Alan Iverson, when he and I didn't speak. It got so ugly in 2010 that I was told there was people looking for me to do me home. Really? Because of how bad it appeared with me and AI. And, well, you know, he's from the streets. I'm from the streets.

So I went down to Atlanta. I had a crew. And I went down there looking for him. No police involved, no anything. But I'm like, you're looking for me. You're going to find me. I'm not going to be that kind. I ain't running because I ain't living my life and hiding.

That's not happening. And so he met up with me. It was a complete lie. There was nobody looking for me. There was nothing like that going on. He just didn't have anything to say. and when we sat down finally it almost broke my heart

because I've always had a lot of love for him because we've always been tight but you know he got into some situations and you can't just ignore every damn story when you're a journalist you got a job to do and I think what really resonated with me was that he looked me dead in my face and all of these stories that was percolating

he said I don't give you shit about none of those stories you know me I don't care about it. that all I care about is that your name was on the byline so to him it wasn't the story it was the fact that it was me let somebody else write it let somebody else say that shit not you because you my man and so we ultimately reached the understanding because there's so much stuff that I had left out at that time and I didn't think that what I wrote was harmful in any way. But when I looked at him, it didn't mean anything to him.

All he cared about is that it was me. He said, not you, not you, you're my man. And I was like, that is the day that I knew that I could never cover him again. Because I love him so much, he's like a little brother to me. And that was the day I said, I got it. And from that point forward, I have nothing to say about him unless I talk to him first. because objectivity is out the window. I mean, we are like this.

That's my man. We talked about three times a month. You know, I'm always checking up on them. When I go down to Carolina, I go see him. I go check on them. The whole bit, that's my man, you know. And so I know things about him that he would never, ever, ever tell any reporter on this earth. That's my guy.

And so because of that, you recognize that that line has been crossed. I'm not going to be objective when it comes to him. So that's, that's what, that's the way it's going to be. Have personal relationships that you've had with, like, other athletes? Does that affect the way you report on them? No, this was the only time that's happened because I think that he was a guy that was in a rare situation that required more. See, with the other dudes, it's like, that's strictly sports. Yeah.

You know, it's like, I mean, don't get me wrong, Kobe and I were tight. Kobe and I had conversations after Eagle County, Colorado that has never. never been repeated and never will be repeated. But I will tell you, he died proclaiming his innocence. I will tell you that. Yeah. But I would tell you also that, you know, at the end of the day, most conversations and most relationships I have with these dudes, you know, are about basketball.

I would tell you me and Shaq, that's different. You know, when we talk about the Iversy relationship that I have, well, I had a relationship like that to a lesser degree with Kobe and I have a relationship damn near identical to that with Shaq. So, you know, outside of that, you know, even though I have relationships with a lot of people, they understand, you play like shit, I'm going to call it. You play great. I'm going to call it. I'm not going to lie to my viewers or listeners.

And it's not anything for me not to violate the code of not revealing personal stuff because I don't do that anyway. That's not my style. Stay out of the police blotters. Don't make your personal life public consumption because police got involved or any. anything like that. Don't break no laws. Outside of that, what you're doing with your life is none of my business. And that's how I've always approached it. That way, that's how I understand it. So when you do stuff professionally, I'm going to call it exactly like I see it. No mercy. Yeah. It is what it is. Can we switch up to the NFL? Sure. What do you think today we got

Eagles, Niners? This will be out of the Eagles. Let's get your picks to see. I pick the Eagles and The Biggles. That's who you picked? Yeah. How are you? Yes. What's your logic behind taking Joe Burrow over, Patrick Mahomes? Well, other than the fact that he's been the only the three times they faced one another.

What about the fact that. I mean, the chiefs are the favorite, so. Well, Patrick Mahomes got that high ankle sprain, even though they said he'll be ready to go. The fact of the matter is he's coming into this game less than 100%. He does not have Tyreek Hill available to him. When he did have Tyreek Hill available last year, they lost. Could they win? Sure.

They could win. But I think that when you see Cincinnati fully loaded, 7-7 right now. Their defense, their defense is better this year than it was last year. And I think that Kansas City as big time as they are. And Travis Kelsey is my brother from another mother. That's my dog right there. I just think that it's one of those situations where Cincinnati should be the favorite.

Either team could win. San Francisco could be Philly. And Mahomes and Kansas City could beat the Bengals. but I just have a feeling that's going to be Philly-Sensey. Do you think there's anything with the NFL, like with Brock Purdy, he was the last pick, right?

He's crushing it. Any parallel with Tom Brady kind of going out and then you have this kid who's, you know, no one expected to me? Well, the parallel is that he has everything around them because when Tom Brady first arrived in New England, they had an elite defense. Yeah.

They had exceptional coaching by Bill Belichick. And so when you have that along with a bunch of experienced, savvy veterans who know how to win, that goes a long way. And that's what the New England Patriots have. In this case, with Purdy, You got an elite defense that's ranked, number one across the board.

Offensively, you got Debo, you got kiddos, you got Christian McCaffrey, who you acquired from Carolina. So you have dudes that you can dip and dunk the ball too. It's not like you went out and you acquired Randy Moss or somebody. You acquired dudes that you could literally throw a screen pass to move the hell out the way and they can move the chains for you. Because that's what Debo and Christian bring to the table with that offensive line and with the arsenal that they have along with the play calling brilliance of Kyle Shannon. hand. So I think that even though Purdy is good, the reality is that he's been exceptionally helped by the team that he's been placed in and around himself. And I think that's why it goes a long way. Stephen A, I would really love to know how, like, you grew up, like Queens. I know you're

from Queens and I know like the whole analyst stuff you did. Like, when did you, like, when did you like start realizing, man, this is like my passion? Like just, I would love to know more like like Well, I was in seventh grade and my teacher was like, you know, me getting left back in the fourth grade with a first grade reading level, having, you know, some issues with my academics because I had dyslex, undiagnosed dyslexia. I struggled and struggled and struggled, and I definitely struggled with confidence until the seventh grade when my professor told my mother, he's pretty damn smart. His issue is that he drifts.

If he's bored and he's disinterested, he doesn't hear anything you're saying. It goes in one end out the other. He doesn't even have recall. But if he's passionate about it, he said, you've got somebody special on your hand because he's pretty brilliant. And so I started thinking about what was I passionate about. And sports was it because of the sports that I used to watch with my dad. And so because of that, it just took off from there. And that's where my passion started to grow because it wasn't just about.

sports, it built my confidence about life. The fact that I could watch and have the recall that I have and to read and to comprehend what was going on in the sports world, I would now recognize that I wasn't as dumb as I thought that I was. And as a result, my confidence built from there. So instead of just limiting myself to sports, I would read news, current events, politics, all of this other stuff. And I would really, I would really expand my interest and my intellect grew. And as my intellect grew, obviously so did my confidence. And that's where it really, really came from.

And so, but I also remember that when I'm not that passionate about something, I drift. And so because of that, that made me more cognizant and mindful of being around people and embracing subject matter that interests me. So I'm, you know, the best thing, the best way that I can expect, explain it to you is that when I knew that my, what do you call it a disability, malady, whatever way you want to call it, when I realized that it worked to my advantage was when I became a beat writer covering the NBA because 20,019 to 20,000 people would be in attendance. And I swear to y'all, when deadline approached and it was time to get it done,

to get my article in on time, I literally didn't hear anything. I literally would be in an arena and it's 19,000 people in there and I did not hear a word. I just don't know how to explain it. And that's not always a good thing. You know what I'm saying?

You got a lady, you know, it would be wise for you to listen. You're bored, yeah. Why for you to listen? I know how to tune people out. I mean, I'm sitting there, you know. I mean, it gets to the point where you have people, family, friends,

loved ones, whatever. literally if a sporting event is on they'll have to walk in front of the TV to block it so I can hear because I don't hear a damn word this in like I'm like yeah yeah you know and especially you know my girl be like what did I say I'm like shit

you know so I mean you know I mean it's stuff like that so so you know you definitely got that going on that but that has always always always always been me. And so, you know, I understand that. And, you know, that basically answers your question about my passion and who I am, where it comes from, being from the streets of New York, Hollis, Queens, grew up real poor, surrounded by drugs, drug dealers. Talk about that. I want to know more about that as well. Do you talk about that in the book? Yes, I do. I told about it at all. I'm very,

very grateful. You know, my book, Straight Shooter, you know, I've been blessed and fortunes in New York Times bestseller, week one. I'm very proud of that. But I got to tell you, I'm thankful to, I don't, I don't get here if it wasn't for those people. That's one of the things that has influenced me with sports and just the mentality that we just finished talking about when I talk about how, you know, I'm not snitching, I'm not talking, I'm not getting into people, personal business or whatever. I grew up with that coat. I grew up with that coat.

You know, one of the biggest drug dealers in Hollis literally lived directly across the street from me. you know um and he was a killer and it was understood steve is not to be touched you got dealers in hollis steve is not to be touched you know they understood that there was potential in me and they literally threatened they were going to whip my ass if they ever saw me on the corner involved in the drug game in any way they said we didn't have a choice how did they know how did they know that about you they would see me on the basketball court first of all the level of diligence that i put forth that i'd shoot like 300 jays a day and stuff like that they'd see me in school you know they know i came home i do my homework put in the work whatever they knew that i wasn't trying to be about that life

and so their whole mentality was you know you got your mother there you got your four older sisters they're active part of your life you got a support system you don't have to do this we did we made our choice, but we ain't going to let you make this choice. And literally, I've had several them tell me, we will fuck you up. Do not be on this corner. Do not be doing this. Do not be going to bust your ass. And they meant it. And I knew they meant it. And so they would sit up there. They let me shoot stuff like that. Get dark. They had to get into their game. They said, all right, it's time for you to go. You know, but it was understood people in the neighborhood. It was widely known. Do not touch me with that game. So everyone kind of believed in

you when you were growing up. I wouldn't say everybody, but, but not, certainly not my father, which was in the book. He didn't, he didn't really. He didn't believe in me at all. Talk about that. Yeah. Well, he just said, he just, when I got left back in the fourth grade, he told my mother, the boy just ain't smart. Give it up. He ain't going to do anything with his life. So he told her, he didn't know that I overheard him because I was sitting on the back porch with a window open. Um, but I heard him say that. And, uh, it was devastating to hear your own father give up on you like that. But I was lucky to have cats in the neighborhood who felt otherwise. So, you know, and then I had my old.

sister Linda who taught me how to read. A friend of the family named Tiver, he taught me how to read as well. And it was a constant daily due diligence put forth that I was going to overcome this. And I'd later learn that it was dyslexia that I was suffering from. But I don't know how my sister and him overcame that dysfunction for me, but they were just on it. And they made me practice, practice, practice. And I would read in any word that I did not understand, I would grab a dictionary, I would look up the word, and I would read the word, see its definition, study the context in which it was used. And I still do that to this very day. Did it motivate you like after hearing that? Hell yeah. Because, you know, when you're a man, especially a black man,

it's hard. You know, you, you feel like you're born with two strikes against you. That's how you feel. And you feel like the challenges that you have to face, you got to find some way to overcome. but in most instances, it's not going down like that. And so because of it, it's real easy to give up to feel like the world is stacked against you. It's just that, you know, as black people, you know, we just have an incredible intestinal fortitude. And no matter what obstacles come our way,

most of us are like, damn it, we're going to overcome it. We ain't bound. We ain't breaking. We ain't bending. Here we come. All right. We'll figure it out along the way. And so that's definitely the case.

That was the case with me. but I was helped because I had brothers on the wrong side of the tracks who refused to allow me to be a part of that. They were watching my back. They were looking out for me. And they were holding me accountable, you know. And so I never liked to fight, for example, and stuff like that. And then, you know, you had cats in the neighborhood that wanted to try me

but knew they couldn't kill me and stuff like that because the other dudes would take them out. But they also made me fight the dudes. They're like, you ain't going to be no damn punk. So then all of a sudden, you know, right, I ain't have to worry about this dude shooting me. So all of a sudden, I can get on the end, I could beat his ass. Yeah, you had that grit system.

And do what I got to do. So, I mean, it's just all types of stuff like that that you had to deal with growing up. Why did those certain guys want to test you? Oh, because I can ball and I talk shit. What, we were playing on the blacktop? Yeah, so, you know, get on the court and it's like, okay, here we go. You know, you think you could take me. Let me show you.

And I was the worst kind because I had a J. And so because of that, you know, you had cats and, you know, they might have been a little bit big or whatever. They want to get physical with you. I just stay 20 feet away from the basket and drill them. As soon as they give you the ball, it's like, I'm shooting it. Did you play? What level did you play?

I played division two, but I really didn't play because I cracked my kneecap in half the minute I got there. So I never really, really had an opportunity to shine, which is why it makes me laugh when people say he didn't do anything in college. You know, he averaged two points. I said, really two points? That's a lie because I never played because I cracked my kneecap and a half. I've seen the photo of you. Let's say you didn't get injured. What do you think would have happened with your career?

I don't think I would have been pro. I don't think I was that good. But I think that I don't think I would have been pro at all. But I do believe I knew I could ball. And I thought that I would have excelled at the Division 2 level. Division 1 level, I was like 5, 9, 130 pounds. So they'd have pushed me around. I would have been a defensive liability that would have had the coach pulling me off the bench to shoot, but not much else.

So I can't say that my numbers would have been great. I just know that if I was on the court, you will have known I could ball. But again, physicality did matter. Would you have been better than Kwame Brown? No, I'm not going to disrespect to Kwame Brown like that. I'm sorry. Don't worry about it's cool. It's cool.

It's cool. Quamee Brown, listen, I'm very guarded in what I say about him because I've seen some of his videos. True. And clearly is real, real personal with him. It was never personal with me. I just looked at his game and called him. like I saw it. Now, if you remember, you got these infamous videos of me going off.

It's hilarious, man, but you know it. But guys, but wait a minute. But wait a minute. Fellas, that was 14, 15 years ago. I'm saying, I didn't know that this society was going to evolve to a point where 14, 15 years later, you got guys running in the space and he doing interviews talking about how scarred he is and blaming him. And blaming me for labeling him. Yeah, they didn't do that. No, you actually are right. No, no, he was on the pivot with my boys Ryan Clark and Crowder and Dillon. And he's like, you know, you're talking about endorsement deals and I cost them out.

I'm like, what? Like, no, I didn't do that. They were saying this about you years before I ever opened my mouth. But when you at the top of the heat, which I am at this particular moment in time doing what I do for first take, people are going to label it like that. Because first take's been number one for 11 years. Yeah. Why does that beef? I mean, you can't squash that beef?

No, I mean, I'm not trying to squash. I'm not trying to start nor squash anything. I got a job to do. If I knew it was going to be like that, I wouldn't have done it like that. But I did say what I meant at the time. I meant the shit, okay? Yeah, you explained it. And so it's like I'm not trying to hurt him.

I mean, listen, man, look, here's how I view it all. I wish him nothing but the best I hope he is family everybody good and he lives his life and if I knew it was going to be like this I'd have never done it fair enough I'm correction but I will tell you this

my job is to call the game of basketball how I see it call sports how I see it okay yeah he is not the first person that I've criticized he won't be the last I've been criticized you got a whole bunch of people

out here doing debate shows, podcasts, solo shows, all the, people ain't saying shit about them. You coming to me, why? Okay, whatever reason is your reason. That's cool. But all I'm doing is talking about what I see. Now, if you seven feet and you averaging three points a game, that's what you did. If you averaging 23, that's what you did. If you averaging 30, that's what you did. If you, Dennis Robin and you was a defensive ace, that's what you did. I mean, I'm not throwing shade on anybody. I'm not trying to harm anybody. I'm not trying.

I'm just doing my job, calling it like I see it. That's what I do. And here's the biggest thing that I get tired of people not understanding. And I mean this. And this is to y'all too, even though I don't know y'all. I want y'all to understand. Everybody has this obligation, okay? We cover sports.

Everyone can't play it. there's 450 jobs people they're 450 million if you want to be in the NBA you got it's 450 spots okay anybody that's mediocre is taken up the spot for somebody else so it's our job to say that might not cut it you might need something else because that's what we do the great ones we don't say that about them you know what we do we compare them the great ones why would we say anything think about it

you got people who call people like myself and others LeBron Hader I ain't got a negative bone in my body for LeBron he's phenomenal as a role model as a player as a person the whole bit to me he just ain't MJ okay now the society that we're living in

we all have to make a contribution towards stopping this bullshit. Yeah, I agree, bro. How is it that we being negative because we're saying you, you number two, there's been, there's been tens of thousands of players in NBA history. I have you number two all time.

How is that hate? How is that disrespect? We got to stop that bullshit. I don't think the whole debate is just like, I'm just saying we got to say. Because you have people who get their podcast. have their radio shows, have their television shows, and because you want to feed the beast,

you feed into that bullshit. Well, guess what? You ain't special if you're doing that. Because you're scared to go against the status quo. You can't be caught up in all of that. That's not hate. That is not hate. You're talking about,

I got your number two all time. That is not hate. And you got people that would want to act like that. Rihanna and Beyonce, I'm in this bullshit last week. Are you kidding me? I'm like, I want to know about that. But why did you say she's not Beyonce?

Why? Sherry Shepard staff came up to me. I'm on the show promoting the book. They came up to me before the show. We would like a debate style format. We would like a debate style format. So keep that in mind whenever Sherry asks you a question. they're trying to make they're trying to get good ratings off it well come on

bro are you trying to get good ratings by having you on this of course oh right this is not what i'm saying i'm saying that's what i'm saying it's bad what i'm trying to say is this to you the point that i'm making is is that we're all we're all doing it there's nothing wrong with her saying we she didn't i didn't know what she was going to ask but she was just saying we want the debate field yeah yeah so i went out there understanding she wanted a debate feel Come on, bro. I'm looking at Rihanna. I'm like, well, she got my money.

I bought her albums. I'm a fan of Rihanna. I think she's fantastic. I think she's fantastic, right? But there's only one Beyonce. Okay. I had no idea. I had, now, people understand this.

I expect people to disagree. Hey, so what did you want to talk about? Well, I want to tell you about Wagovi. Wagovi? Yeah, Wagovi. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not?

No, just ask your doctor about Wagovi. Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay, so why did you bring me to the circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit Wagovi.combe.com for savings. Exclusions may apply.

What I don't expect is, oh my God, uh, ESPN. got to address this story. Stephen, you've got to apologize. Oh, Stephen. I'm like, what? Why? Because I said, I prefer Michael Jackson over Prince. Where were y'all?

I used to like Luther over Teddy Prendergras. Where were y'all? I'm sorry. I love me some Nia Long, some Sinai Lathan, and all these people. But damn, I got a sauce spot. They get good. Is it a crime?

I'm like, what are we talking about here? Now, if I sat up there and I said, oh, I can't stand it, she can't say, she can't ask, she can't do it. Then that's different. I sat up there and said, yo, y'all, I love her. She's great.

She got my money. I've purchased her album. I have the bill. I have the receipt. What are you talking about? Of course I like her. It's just that Beyonce. I think that Bruno Mars

is the closest thing to Michael Jackson and Prince in the modern era. sure okay that that does not mean i don't like i think that j z is the greatest but i grew up love i grew up on run d l l l okay cool mo d krs one eric b and rock him i grew up with these these i grew up listening to these people and run dmc i know personally l l i know personally i grew up jam master j was my late brother's best friend god rest their souls i'm talking about like but Nas. I love Nas. M&M. But JZ is JZ to me. Sure. That's a crime. No, but what's, what's

scarier getting that text from Kobe saying answer your phone motherfucker or if Rihanna texted you and said, yo, answer your phone. I mean, what the hell? Have you gone, man? I don't know. Have you gotten that yet or what? Listen, listen. Would you be afraid if you got that text? No. Hell no. Because I did nothing wrong. Would you answer it and say Rihanna? The only reason I apologize to Rihanna is because she didn't ask. to be a part of this nonsense and it's nonsense. So I feel bad that her name was associated with nonsense. I did not know, but don't get me wrong.

I don't believe I did anything wrong. And to me, listen, I say this to people. You know, LeBron, you're going to miss them. Steph Curry, you're going to miss them. I'm getting news for y'all. People keep letting this kind of bullshit happen. Y'all going to miss me. Yeah, yeah.

You're going to miss me. You're going to miss me what I'm going to be honest. And here's why I say that, because this is BS. Yeah, I agree. It's like you're trying to tell me that if I am a fan of an artist and I said nearly an insulting word about other artists that I am pitting two women against each other, I'm hurting, I'm hurting this, why does it have to be? I'm like, really, that's what we're doing now? I'm telling y'all trust me trust me you want to listen to me when I say this podcasters radio hosts television pundits all that stuff you got to stop this BS you got to stop

this BS where you get to be labeled a hater because you big up somebody more so than the other now if you'd be a negative about another person and denigrating them and insulting them no that's different that's different but me saying you know I prefer Beyonce over Rihanna and I got people you know sending messages on Facebook you better watch your back from Navy and I went like this to show you a little let me put myself on first sheet again this is last week just last week I said who the hell is Navy what you mean the Navy Navy Navy Army Army Air Force Marines who the who the hell is that they're like no to Rihanna Navy I said Rihanna Who the hell is that? I did not know. I had no clue. I've never heard of them until last week.

Do you, do you apologize? Do you think it's ridiculous even after? I apologize. I just told you. I apologize to Rihanna. Yeah. Because of her name being associated with such nonsensical drivel. It makes no sense. But I ain't apologized to no damn Navy. I ain't apologizing no damn industry. All of them can please go someplace. This is nonsense. And I'm telling you right now, if y'all don't stand up and defend against this bullshit, y'all ain't going to have a podcast that matters. Nobody is. Radio shows, television, it's all going to evaporate because you can't say anything.

Has it gotten tougher for you? But that's what people want. They want to hear you say that shit. And that's what it does for that show. Listen, but I say what I feel in case you haven't figured that out. We know that, yeah. I say what I feel. But if the Kwame Brown thing, that's negative.

I got that. I own that. If I had to do it over again for 14, 15 years ago, guys, I would do it differently. Okay? No question about it, all right? But I did nothing wrong with the Rihanna Beyonce thing. Nothing. Okay?

It's petty. It's ridiculous. And I don't have any time? Do you think feel can kind of be a detriment to your own success as well? because like having a feel and then being logical in certain situations, do you think that could be a detriment to your own success? If it is, it is. You got to accept who you are.

Because at the end of the day, the only thing that's sustainable is being your true authentic self. If you try to be a phony just to get someplace, it's not going to have any longevity to it. It's not going to last. So you think feel is like the ultimate thing that you should always come by. I wouldn't say just feel. You got to put forth your due diligence. You got to do your homework.

It has to matter. You have to have credibility. people got to know that your place comes from a place of thoughts come from and substance and substance and substance you can't just be talking shit just to be talking shit you just to say they could sit up there and use my presentation and say that but if you listen to what I say yeah you'll notice that most things that I say I'm spitting fat yeah I heard people people say the most ridiculous things in the world to go viral now yeah even Skip I saw Skip tweeted last night he said LeBron's probably relieved they didn't call that foul, so he didn't have to shoot free throws.

Okay. But it's like, that's ridiculous that he doesn't even believe that. Fair enough to you. What I would say to you about Skip is that it is consistent with who he is when it comes to LeBron. So whether intentional or not, he's on brand. For sure. That's who he is when it comes to LeBron.

I happen to disagree. I happen to have disagreed many, many years with him about that. But he is consistent. Does he feel that way, though? Do you think that he actually genuinely feels that way about LeBron James? Because he, like many others, are people who gravitate to a certain error and certain players. You gravitate to it as well, right? And the thought of somebody eclipsing them infuriates you.

Me, I don't care. I just feel what I feel. It's not a desire to hold. dawn to some time that the only thing that I want to hold on to as it pertains to the past I like the path to prosperity to be consistent but can't you I don't like it to be altered but then people try to judge as if you went through that same path somebody from the past went through it's just like a hall of fame of picking up the phone and calling me and saying stephen a make sure you hold them accountable that's what you would do to us put them through the same thing you put us through see I like

stuff like that because that's that's people reminding me that there's a level of consistency that needs to come with the criteria and as long as that is case it's good yeah yeah okay it's good the consistent criteria yeah don't change it for somebody but then judge them the same no yeah yeah yeah you're going to change the criteria then you have to judge the lot of sense yeah i keep the criteria the same and i say this is what i'm seeing and this is what it is do you think with skip though for him holding a grudge of like not a grudge per se but more of like like the inferior stuff that you were talking about can't you say that about run DMC rackem the the the greats that you do talk about what i mean by that is like even like the jordan lebron debate right it's like

damn like lebron i feel as if honestly speaking you talk about feel i feel as if a lot of people are like damn lebron will never eclipse mj no matter what the hell he does well you know i'm trying to having six NBA finals losses. Okay, but, okay. Yeah, you could fail on life, though, sometimes. I'm just saying, but it comes from that place. But it's not like LeBron went to 10 NBA finals and he's nine and one or 10 and O and people are saying this.

You got to, just like you might feel differently, you got to take into account the fact that he's lost, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm like, you know, feeling a way of like having that LeBron. But it's okay. Okay, yeah, but I got a thing logical sometimes, too.

And I get like that, yeah, I think. had the six and all finals, but, dude, come on, man. Like, if he passed Kareem, bro, you can come on, like, come on, like, you go on. No, come on. But, you know, the rules have changed. I love that you're consistent with what I've said in terms of the past, the prosperity is a bit easier in this day. I know, I know, I know. To score.

You're right. Take that into consideration. I got to look at it that way. Don't you think that's why this is that, that's, I hate that debate, the MJ LeBron debate, because no one's ever going to change their mind anyway. So I don't, I don't, you know what, to me. I don't take it that far. What I mean by that is like, you hate it.

I don't think about it. The reason I don't think about it. I just say it's, I wouldn't say hate it, but it's a waste of time. It just doesn't matter to me because I've made it very clear years ago that my position ain't going to change. And everybody keeps coming to me asking that question. If they didn't ask, I wouldn't answer. Sure. Do you think as like a in your position, in your position, there is any pressure?

Like, let's say you're picking the winner of the finals years and years and you. and you get it wrong. I got it wrong six straight years. Do you have any, is there any accountability for that? Or do you like, no. Why should there be? Just someone in your position that's a student of the game? Do you know how many people I cover that don't know shit about basketball and talk about

basketball every day? What if they said you went 0 for six, though? So maybe. What about the, what about before that when I went eight and no? You don't hear about that. You don't hear about that one. So that's what I'm trying to say. So what happens is, is young dudes on the come up.

that want to recall what they want to recall. It's like the person that comes up to me and they says to me, I could beat you in the debate, man. That's happened to me. Do you know what I've said to them when they've said that to me? I don't. You probably could.

Here's what I'd like you to do. I'd like you to come to me after you put in the 20 years that I put in before I got the license to me. You can't debate with that. Then come talk to me. Because when I was, when I wanted to get in industry. We had the Brian Gumbulls and the Bob Costances, the Howard CoSells and various others

and Wilborn and Coenheuser came along and you had the sports reporters with Lupica and Bob Ryan and Mitch Album and all of these other people. And I thought I could do that in my sleep. I had to wait. I had to go to school. I had to give my education. I had to do three internships before I ever even graduated from college. I had to start off as an editorial assistant living off a tune of Fish and Kool-Aid. I had to start off as a high school reporter after that. After that, I had to do a college beat and get promoted seven times before I even became a columnist before I was even on television. I had to do all of this before I ever had the license to debate. Who the fuck are you to think that you get to bypass all that stuff that I just highlighted

and then come up and just debate me. You can kiss off. You have to wait. Because that's what I had to do. It's called the process. That's true. What if it's an MMA fan? Because I'm honestly speaking like... No, no, no, no, would all do respect. Can I say my opinion? That's not a credible question. No, it is credible.

No, because there's nothing to debate because I don't report on it. I don't know. All I did was I was sitting at the MMA event minding my business. You don't, I'm sorry, this is my opinion, like how you have a quandary, but you don't really know too much about MMA. I'm so sorry to say that by like, that's the truth. Time out, time out. Because when you're talking about even Comedieieieie McGregorkees,

You talked about Kabee McGregor 229 when they, yeah, you know, oh my God. You just heard his 20 years. No, it's not that. It's not, that's not, that's not 20 years. I'm going to let you finish. That's not. Sleem Stephen 8 20 years. I'm going to let you finish.

And then I'm going to let you finish. And then I'm going to let you finish. And then after that, I'm going to show you how foolish you are. Okay. Go, go. Let's go. Okay. Kabea McGregor, right?

I just think like, you know, your basketball mind is, is very intellectual. And I love the way you think. And I love the way you like, you know, critique things. Even when you talked about LeBron where he was coming at, you know, NFL owners and you were like, yo, be careful. I seen that the other day. Got you. I think you're very smart with that.

But I think when you talk about Khabib McGregor, Khabib Cowboy, and it's just like you're, you're not too honed in on how MMA is actually is. And that's just one critique I have of you. Like you talk about Kwamey Brown, like, I can't talk about it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Alan Iverson, all that stuff. But what was your take on Kabat-Regger? I'd like to answer him.

He has to give me a chance to answer because he likes hearing your tough talk. You do. What are you talking about? I get paid. I get paid to do it. And you invited me here to talk. I get paid to do this too. And you invited me here to talk.

So let me answer your question. I just think that like, I can't specifically know. He's still not going to look at. No, okay. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. All right. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I have several witnesses over there. Okay. I was at the MMA event as a fan. Chilling with the president of the UFC and the president of Endeavor, who happens to be the man who hired me at ESPN in 2003. Okay.

ESPN says, you're here. So credibility. This is what you basically said. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Would your mind standing next to then you called me and them and doing the segment for us? I said, if I went out?

I said, I don't know. I've never watched the Mega Metal. I said, I'm here. I said, I'm rooting for Connor McGregor. I know Connor McGregor could clip anybody, but damn, McGregor. Nomega Medal at the time was 26, 27, and 0. I said he's going to mall him to death.

But what if Conner McGregor, what if he clips him? let me step it time out let me take it a step further so then you call me a ghost first and he's talking everybody's cracking up because i said we're gonna go with what he said and everybody's cracking up because i'm like he's a head like headway champion where he knows this i don't i'm here i don't know the sport i said i love i respect the athletes i'm a fan i'm starting to watch it that's all with the MMA fans was that they felt, and Joe Rogan said it at the time, they felt like you shouldn't be doing that unless you're an expert. And I said, no, you shouldn't be doing it if you're pretending to be an expert and you're not. You know how many times somebody goes

up to an actor, an actress, a football player, a fan, or somebody, what do you feel about this game between the Warriors and the Cavaliers or some basketball-related matter? They were a fan in attendance, but because they're popular, they put you on the microphone in front of the camera, and they asked you a question. So what I'm saying to you is, your point is absolutely valid. If I ever went on there and said, I am an expert, I followed this sport. Yeah, you didn't say that. Not only did I not say that, I made sure to tell people, look, I don't know.

I'm just like, I like the environment. The vibe is pretty cool, blah, blah, blah. Connor McGregor fights Soroni, Cowboy, Soroni, Cowboy, I caught that fight accurate. That's when Joe Rogan came at me. But Nate Diaz said, Stephen A was right. What was your take?

Okay, you were right. Hold on, hold on. Go ahead. As Soroni, I said, he looked like a deer in headlights. I said, now, I don't know, quote, I don't know MMA. But I know a scared dude when I see one. Okay.

Because I've been covering sports for all of these years. And that night, with those lights coming on, He wasn't scared of Connor. But you, I have seen throughout the years where the bigger the stage, the brighter the lights, that is what affects a particular athlete. And that night, I saw that from Cowboy Soroni. I didn't see it from him when he was on the undercard. And he beat up. I forgot the game.

The dude, he beat up real bad. But I didn't see that that night when he was on the undercard. But when he went into the ring against McGregor And those lights came on And he was the main event He shrunk That's it So for me it's like

I'm looking at the MMA community And I said tell me when I said I was an expert Tell me when I even said that I watched it's your point I'm sorry I mean I it just I Well it also sounds like anything you talk about No matter what people are going to take you as you think you're an expert And that's very very true

Which makes sense That makes sense. So you kind of signed up for that in a sense. No, no, no, I didn't because I'm not signing up. I'm not signing up for you, not listening. I specifically said, I don't, I'm just learning the MMA. You can hear, but not listen. What I meant is I think other people just assume, though, Stephen A, like we have to treat him like an expert.

Well, maybe so, but what happens is this, I'm Stephen A. And for better or worse, over the, you know, knock on wood, it can end tomorrow, it can end next month, whatever. But I've been number one for 11 years. I'm box office. And so when I come on camera, people watch. And so they said, well, we got you here. I'm literally in the ESPN booth eating food, chilling. Hang it out.

And they were like this. Could you come on camera? Oh, why not? I'm here anyway. Don't you think that comes, though, from feel as well? Like, people could hear to listen, like not to listen. But, like, if someone hears, I think it's not as important as someone's listening. want to be entertained. It's entirely plausible that they said, let's hear what this crazy

ass dude got to say about MMA. Because he don't cover MMA. Let's see what he says. No problem. And you've thought of that before your decision made, right? Like when, like, they asked you a favor, right? You're like, okay, I understand what I'm about to do right now. I'm not going to say I'm an expert. This, this and that. No, that's just me. That's, it's, it's the equivalent to what, remember when I told you earlier in the conversation. Remember what I told you, early in the conversation. If I'm wrong publicly, I'll apologize publicly. I won't apologize privately because I did it on the air, so correct it on the air. A hundred percent. What's the same principle? If you know that an audience is watching and they may be expecting expertise because

they're listening to Dan you call me in, they're listening to Joe Roe and all of these other guys. And I know I'm not inherently, in my opinion, it's my obligation to let you know. Look, man, don't take, this is no damn expert opinion. Don't go out and bet on my suggestion. I would not do that because I don't know. But for me, this is what I'm thinking. And I'll let you know. Okay.

Because I can do that. That's awesome here. That's actually really. That's it. What's up with the No Mercy podcast? It's went on YouTube, January 9th. I couldn't go on before then, even though it's been out since September 26th because ESPN and I had to negotiate my way out of my contract to be allowed to do all of that

because they had my rights. Right. And so they had to get me the right to do that and I had to negotiate my way to do that. But I'm told it's doing pretty damn well. So what is it? Well, it's me venturing beyond the world of sports, not limiting myself to the corridors of sports

because doing the ESPN, you know, you might have heard me speak about things politically, social justice issues, stuff like that from time to time. But by and large, working for ESPN, you're pretty restricted to doing, to being confined to the world of sports. It was important to me that, I was going to do a podcast that I had to freedom to venture beyond that.

There's political issues going on. I want to talk about it. The social justice issues like the recent murder of this kid, Tyree Nichols in Memphis, I want to be able to talk about that. I don't want it to be something that I have to avoid because it's not my lane because I'm restricted by the corridors of ESPN in that regard. That was very important to me. And so I've assured them that I would do what I'm supposed to do for them on their time,

but on my time, this is what I want to do. And so it was something that we negotiated. They was in agreement with it. They allowed me to do that after the negotiations, of course. And so that's what my No Mercy podcast is all about. I touch on issues that are percolate as pertinent, you know, pop culture and entertainment, social justice issues, politics, current affairs news, plus sports. I'm not limited to anything. And that is the kind of platform that I wanted for myself if I was going to do a podcast.

I do a weekly, a week now. Three times a week. Yes. One day, Wednesday, Friday. How do you enjoy doing it on YouTube as compared to, like, the more corporate ESPN stuff? I love it. But see, for me, they can say corporate ESPN, but when it comes to the world of sports, there's no better place to be than ESPN, in my opinion.

But I mean, like being your own boss completely. Say what? Not that you're not your own boss. Yeah. Well, yeah, I get you, but being my own boss, it's a lot of responsibility. And there's no doubt about it. I have a team working under me. And so every little thing that, you know, you learn as you go away,

I've never had to deal with this before. You got thumbnails. and you got graphics and you got headlines. I've never had to deal with that in my life. That's stuff that I left up to everybody else. Now I got to deal with it. And then I'm leaving it up to other people from time to time and they might do something.

And I might say, oh, I would have done this a little bit differently and I got to make that call. But you got to trust, you got to know when to trust folks, no one to pull a heavy hand, no one to step back and let them do their job, stuff like that. And I'm no one cutting the checks. And so for me, it's an incredible challenge. It's new.

I get all of that. And, you know, but all of y'all, everybody that's out here doing this serves as an inspiration because it's not safe. You know, the fact is you're betting on yourself. And the reality is that when you're in corporate America and you're getting a salary every day, whether it's weekly, bi-monthly, or whatever the case may be, although you're still putting forth your effort, you're still not betting on yourself to the degree that you are when you're out on your own. And you're employing people. And that's what I'm doing now.

That's new to me because I've never done that before. And it's an incredible challenge, but props to y'all to be so young to do what you do, to run your own shop, a lot of people, you'd be surprised how a lot of old school folks like myself have been highly reluctant and hesitant over the years to do that because throughout history, you never really were taught that that is the safe way to go. Usually one in a thousand people succeed as opposed to one in 50, for example, when you're talking about corporate America. Do you think we're feeding them, though? The one question I've always, like, wanted to know is, like, we're putting out things on YouTube and just feeding the people that are on YouTube, like, doesn't that kind of affect the way we're trying to, like, have, like, you know, quote-unquote, like, free speech, you know what I mean, being able to say what you want. I think feeding YouTube and doing all those things, not to talk about it now, because I know it's going to be on YouTube, but I think it's a great conversation to have. let me say this to you how old are you 28 how do you 28 28 28 you 21 21 yeah my advice to y'all would be this you know as much success as I've had one of the greatest things that I'm

starting to feel right now I'm 55 you know I mean one more good contract I'm straight yeah you know I'm saying it was nice ride was cool you know i'm okay it's great to see i still got i still feel i got 15 20 years in me but what i'm saying to you is that conceivably you got people in this day and age retiring at the age of 62 yeah for me i will have achieved the ultimate goal is if at the age of 62 i can literally say i'm walking away from everything i'm just going to chill that's seven that's seven years that seven years from now all

the both of y'all got over 30 you got 40 I got a long way to go and what I would tell you is this be very very careful because the good side is that you young the world is your oyster you got the whole world in front of you

go for it do what you got to do the bad part about it understand that the society that we're living in right now one mistake could cost you everything and it can define you crap and so it's incredibly it's incredibly important to be mindful of the importance of being substantive being the kind of person that we're even if people disagree with you they're able to look at you they're able to say you was fair minded you were humane you know and you were as thorough as you possibly could be if you're able to do those

three things. You're humane. You're fair and you're as thorough as you possibly can be. What you touched on was as close to the truth as you could possibly get. Those are the kind of things that can sustain you for years and years and years to come. So if you weren't doing this, you could always do something else and people would be receptive to embrace you. Sometimes it can't set you free though. I think the suit that literally the truth can't set you free. I mean, we're living in literally exactly what's going on right now. That's wrong. It's horrible.

Well, it's dangerous, though, because people, listen, man, we've seen people that will try to convince us the sky is gray when it's blue, right? Like, we're looking at the sky. That's, yeah. And it's amazing, right? And they will try to convince you is gray. So when you say the truth, I said, get as close to the truth as you possibly can because what I'm trying to say to you is someone will always try to convoluted it, what you don't

wanted to do is put your so what you don't want to do is put yourself in a position where someone else's truth damages you to such a degree that you yeah because it's either it's above or like it's either at the top every show you do you should be thinking about tomorrow oh it shouldn't be about yesterday it shouldn't be about now it should be about tomorrow you have to look ahead to ensure you're one step ahead from most naysayers, critics, skeptics, et cetera, to insulate yourself from the BS. That's how we treat this too. We got to wrap it up because you got out of here,

but we did Elon Musk and it was a huge thing for us. The next day we're already looking for the next guy. Didn't even live off that. But before we let you go, I just want to ask you, if you had like one, during your whole career, if you had one very special moment or something like that you think was just something you'll never forget or just changed your life?

Honestly speaking, I would always answer that question by saying my first interview with Alan Iverson when I was doing quite frankly my show on ESPN2. But especially as I reflect on my book, Straight Shooter, and I think about the things about my personal life that I put in that story. And I think about where I've been blessed to be at this point in time in my life.

I would have to answer that question by saying one of the greatest moments was me with Kobe Bryant Kobe Bryant and I saw each other three weeks before he died New Year's Eve 2019 going into 2020 where we were

is nobody's business we were at a party of a superstar that was having a party at his house and we were there and people were around and they saw us and they were wondering what the hell was going on because even though we'd always see each other and give each other a pound and a hug

we kept hugging each other for like 15 minutes we were talking and he was incredibly proud of me because of what I was doing in my career and where I was going and we were talking about it because he was doing the You know, he was doing his thing for ESPN and ESPN plus detail. And he knew that I was about to start my production company and stuff like that.

And we were talking about collaborating on certain projects and stuff like that coming forward. And we were supposed to meet a few weeks later before his fatal helicopter crash. What I remember about that night is I had never seen him that happy ever. in all the years that I knew him. And we were talking about his happiness. He was talking about me and what I was accomplishing and what we were going to do. And I was talking to him about his happiness.

And he said, it's just a good feeling to know as much stuff that I want to do now that my initialist, I did it all. They can't say nothing. And he said, for the first time in my life, I'm at peace. you know he could go to a game with Gianna God rest her lovely soul and he could sit up there at the game and there was no itch to be back on the court there was no itch to have another championship

there was no itch to be recognized differently or anything like that he did it he did it and he was like this is what life is all about when you achieve what you set out to achieve and you know that you left nothing on the table. And when you have that, that is when you are at peace. It doesn't come before then. And he was very, very good and very big on making sure that his story was relatable to everyone in life. He's talking about you guys. He's talking about me.

He's talking about salons. He's talking about everybody. He's talking about whatever it is that's inside of you, that does it for you, that's what you're supposed to be going after. He was wise enough to do it and pull it off. And the misery that other people feel is because they know, as I remember this pastor T.D. Jakes once said,

he said, you can lock a tiger or a lion can be born into captivity. And they only know one way. He said, but why is the cave? encasing them he said because there's something in them that says there's something out there there's something more out there and with Kobe he was like yeah I knew there was something out there and I went and got it and if every he said I want more now but if everything ended down I did it I got my family I got my kids kids and I got all of these accomplishments and there's nothing that anybody could say.

And I'll never forget that as long as I live, how much at peace he was with his life. He was, he was like 40, 40, going 41 years old. And I had never seen anyone his age, including myself, happier than he was that night with his life. And that's what I hold on to. And that's the kind of thing that, you know, I put into my book when I got COVID and I start reflecting on my life and looking back at things, I'm like, damn, you know, yeah, I'm hungry. You know, now the book's on the bestseller list, okay?

I did it. I did what I came to do. So, yeah, I'm going to be on the ESPN. You're going to see me on first take. You're going to see my NBA countdown. You're going to hear me on no mercy on my podcast. You're going to see my books on shelves. you're going to see all of that.

But you know something? I did it. And so now I can look at my bodyguard, my assistant, my sister, my brother-in-law, my other sisters, my nieces and nephews, my daughters, everything. And I'm like, I'm all right. I'm okay.

And that's what I was thinking about Kobe this week. When he crossed my mind in the anniversary of his death, his third year anniversary, I was thinking about that. God, I was the soul, man. Because that's the first time, that's the first time I looked at myself in the way that he looked at himself and he was talking about to me that night. Yeah.

And that's what I got for me. It's pretty powerful. Thanks for showing that. Yeah, you tend to forget, you tend to forget where you're really, like, what you've accomplished. I think that's, that's what I got from, like, where you were saying. Yeah. And it's great to hear it because, like, even hearing that story, it's like, damn, you know what I mean? God rest his soul, for real.

like honestly yeah I'm like for real it's it's the greatest thing ever like even what you're saying with fuck man I'm good you know what I mean like when you get to a point

it's just it's awesome to hear that it's all right your assistant is telling us you got to get out of here but we appreciate you man thank you for sharing I enjoyed it man thank you're crazy

I like why am I 20 20 years in the past why am I just messing with you man no I know you guys you guys go get dinner and let us know there's every truth to every joke

I mean Absolutely. No, no, no. I understand that. It's in a good way. You know, you're inquisitive, but you're passionate. That's what you're supposed to be, bro.